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Old 30th July 2020, 04:27 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's not what I said.
No, but it's equally as hyperbolic. Nothing is ever 100%, but does it make any sense to conclude that therefore it's 0%? NotAlwaysRight is a place where people share their experiences, and if you read the comments, there's more stories and on the ones that are too good to be true, lots of "fake" posts with the reasons why. I've even submitted a story there, though it hasn't shown up. Had the story ended with the chef (who has reason, that is likely their handiwork the Karen is casting aside) calling her on lying and fully backing the berated student to the hilt, that story would rightly be called fake. The chef very mildly chastised her on her behavior and still gave her free pie, which the student sending in the story does not appreciate.
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:39 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
No, but it's equally as hyperbolic. Nothing is ever 100%, but does it make any sense to conclude that therefore it's 0%? NotAlwaysRight is a place where people share their experiences, and if you read the comments, there's more stories and on the ones that are too good to be true, lots of "fake" posts with the reasons why. I've even submitted a story there, though it hasn't shown up. Had the story ended with the chef (who has reason, that is likely their handiwork the Karen is casting aside) calling her on lying and fully backing the berated student to the hilt, that story would rightly be called fake. The chef very mildly chastised her on her behavior and still gave her free pie, which the student sending in the story does not appreciate.
...and everybody applauded.
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Old 30th July 2020, 05:17 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
f retail peons were not so easily fired, if black dogwalkers were not so easily threatened with death by police, "Karens" would not exist. It's all a power play of setting oneself above another through even the pettiest of means.
Nobody disputes those things happen.

What the hell does it have to do with women called Karen?
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:03 PM   #284
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What does being mean and rude and generally unpleasant have to do with male sexual organs or men named Richard? Stacys are not all assumed to be jilted by their boyfriends lusting after their mothers, Chads are not automatically assumed to be bro-holes, and most Karens are not named Karen. People who get called Karens earn their titles, Karens pick up the name from their parents. To please you, perhaps we should all be careful to ensure that we call them karens from now on. So that you don't get karens confused with women named Karen.
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:08 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
What does being mean and rude and generally unpleasant have to do with male sexual organs or men named Richard? Stacys are not all assumed to be jilted by their boyfriends lusting after their mothers, Chads are not automatically assumed to be bro-holes, and most Karens are not named Karen. People who get called Karens earn their titles, Karens pick up the name from their parents. To please you, perhaps we should all be careful to ensure that we call them karens from now on. So that you don't get karens confused with women named Karen.
I guarantee that the number of children born this year or next named Karen is going to be at a record low.
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:13 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
So that you don't get karens confused with women named Karen.
On that basis, it must be ok to call black people *******.

After all, it's only a word, right?
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:29 PM   #287
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According to Everything Birthday, Karen as a name was barely used in the US until the 30s, then it got a lot more popular (I was surprised to see over 2k boys were named Karen) but that popularity tailed off in the 70s to only about 600 a year now. For fun I looked up Richard, and while that name got less popular about the same time as Karen, there's still 2500 boys given the name in the US each year. The pejurative karen may be why the name Karen went from 2k a year down to 600 around 2009, but the name isn't going away.
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Old 30th July 2020, 07:11 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
On that basis, it must be ok to call black people *******.

After all, it's only a word, right?
You seem to have a cognitive issue here. No one is suggesting that all white women should be called a karen.

A "karen" is a specific type of person, one that uses their privileges and entitlements to try and place themselves above others and demand things they have no right to demand. It's no different to calling someone that is being unpleasant, and having a poor attitude towards those about them, a dick. That isn't an insult to all people who have the name Richard.

There is absolutely no co-relation between calling a person that acts in a particular way a "karen", especially when they can stop being called one simply by stopping acting like an entitled bitch, and using the n-word against blacks, especially when there is nothing that they can do to change the skin colour that they were born with.
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Old 30th July 2020, 08:17 PM   #289
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You seem to be the only person emphasising the word's lack of proper noun status by spelling it with a lower case k, so I'm not sure your argument is entirely valid.
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Old 30th July 2020, 08:33 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You seem to be the only person emphasising the word's lack of proper noun status by spelling it with a lower case k, so I'm not sure your argument is entirely valid.
Caps Lock Fallacy?

Actually Silly Green Monkey did it in the post directly above mine.
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Old 30th July 2020, 08:42 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Caps Lock Fallacy?

Actually Silly Green Monkey did it in the post directly above mine.
Two people then. It's not being done routinely in the wider media, as far as I can tell. In general, people are definitely using the word as a name, and not as a label.
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Old 30th July 2020, 08:58 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Two people then. It's not being done routinely in the wider media, as far as I can tell. In general, people are definitely using the word as a name, and not as a label.
When the word is being used to describe a group of people, what's the difference between a name and a label?

ETA: I'd also suggest since when being discussed people refer to them being "a karen" and not just "Karen" then it is a noun not a pronoun. For example, you don't say "That's Gillian, she's a bit of Karen" but rather "That's Gillian, she's a bit of a karen." Thus yeah, it's a noun, not a pronoun.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:48 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
When the word is being used to describe a group of people, what's the difference between a name and a label?

ETA: I'd also suggest since when being discussed people refer to them being "a karen" and not just "Karen" then it is a noun not a pronoun. For example, you don't say "That's Gillian, she's a bit of Karen" but rather "That's Gillian, she's a bit of a karen." Thus yeah, it's a noun, not a pronoun.
You mean it's a noun not a proper noun. An ordinary noun, as it were.

And yeah, I'd agree, except that I'm not seeing it. It's Bunnings Karen, not Bunnings karen. None of these Karens are talking about karens. And in this article "Karen" is used 43 times, whereas "karen" is used guess how many times? That's right, zero.
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Old 30th July 2020, 11:12 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You mean it's a noun not a proper noun. An ordinary noun, as it were.
Sorry yes, I was in a hurry when writing edit and meant proper noun and then didn't double check.

Quote:
And yeah, I'd agree, except that I'm not seeing it. It's Bunnings Karen, not Bunnings karen. None of these Karens are talking about karens. And in this article "Karen" is used 43 times, whereas "karen" is used guess how many times? That's right, zero.
To be honest I think that you are over thinking and being picky about it. Heck two of your links have references to "How not to be a Karen" in them (and most of your Karen count is actually from quotes by women named Karen) so yeah. Otherwise you are really just making an Argumentum ad populum fallacy as it is clearly being used to label a stereotype and group, not individuals. Even in the case of "Bunnings' Karen" it is the "Bunnings'" part if the name that is the identifier as the individual. Karen is added as a descriptor.
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Old 30th July 2020, 11:22 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Sorry yes, I was in a hurry when writing edit and meant proper noun and then didn't double check.



To be honest I think that you are over thinking and being picky about it. Heck two of your links have references to "How not to be a Karen" in them (and most of your Karen count is actually from quotes by women named Karen) so yeah. Otherwise you are really just making an Argumentum ad populum fallacy as it is clearly being used to label a stereotype and group, not individuals. Even in the case of "Bunnings' Karen" it is the "Bunnings'" part if the name that is the identifier as the individual. Karen is added as a descriptor.
No, Bunnings is the name of the store in which she acted like a Karen.
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Old 30th July 2020, 11:45 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, Bunnings is the name of the store in which she acted like a Karen.
Which is why it acts as an identifier. It identifies her as the specific member of the group of Karens by singling her out as the one that acted up in Bunnings.

ETA: It's like saying Dog-Walker Karen. You know instantly who I mean because it's clear that I am identifying a specific member of the group of Karens by the initial identifying prefix, "Dog-Walker." Bunnings is a store yes, just as dog-walking is an activity, but in this case they are being used as prefixes to identify an individual from a group.
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Old 31st July 2020, 12:15 AM   #297
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Last thing I am saying on this pointless derail. I am more than happy to agree that such nicknames as "Bunnings Karen" are proper nouns because they do indeed single out a specific individual. "being a karen" does not however, and as a group label it does not need capitalization any more than such words as tiger or table. You are free to disagree, however this entire pointless derail as to if there should be a capital letter is merely distraction and avoidance of the actual point of the initial post, which was that the term "karen" or "Karen" if you prefer, it no where near the level of Racial, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic slurs for the simple fact that a person that wants to act like a karen (or Karen) does so from their own free choice. They behave that way because they choose to do so, not because they born that way and are biologically unable to change their attitude in the same way as people are unable to change their race, sex, sexual preference, or gender. And that is the difference.

If someone chooses to act like an entitled ass, then they deserve to get the consequences from those actions. However no person deserves to be slurred simply because of the way they were born.
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Old 31st July 2020, 01:17 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
However no person deserves to be slurred simply because of the way they were born.
Irony - saying that while doing exactly what you're saying.
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Old 31st July 2020, 01:54 AM   #299
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First you turn Karen into a vile caricature. Then, to add insult to injury, you take away her propriety, and treat her like she were some common ... noun. And then, to top it all, you emajusculate her and leave her minusculed.

For shame!
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:12 AM   #300
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Think that the term is a lazy insulting use of the English language.

In fact I actually agree with Atheist, which tends to be rare.

"You can't use these words to insult people as a group because it is really bad and may hurt people's feelings"



"You can use this word to insult people as a group because it's really funny and hip"
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:40 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
"You can't use these words to insult people as a group because it is really bad and may hurt people's feelings"

"You can use this word to insult people as a group because it's really funny and hip"
Absolutely nailed.

We must agree to agree more often!
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:42 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Last thing I am saying on this pointless derail. I am more than happy to agree that such nicknames as "Bunnings Karen" are proper nouns because they do indeed single out a specific individual. "being a karen" does not however, and as a group label it does not need capitalization any more than such words as tiger or table. You are free to disagree, however this entire pointless derail as to if there should be a capital letter is merely distraction and avoidance of the actual point of the initial post, which was that the term "karen" or "Karen" if you prefer, it no where near the level of Racial, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic slurs for the simple fact that a person that wants to act like a karen (or Karen) does so from their own free choice. They behave that way because they choose to do so, not because they born that way and are biologically unable to change their attitude in the same way as people are unable to change their race, sex, sexual preference, or gender. And that is the difference.

If someone chooses to act like an entitled ass, then they deserve to get the consequences from those actions. However no person deserves to be slurred simply because of the way they were born.
So what's wrong with just calling them an "entitled ass"? Why does it have to be personalised by drawing in people (i.e. people whose actual name is Karen) who aren't?
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:50 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Irony - saying that while doing exactly what you're saying.
Really, I wasn't aware that behaving like an entitled powerhungry ass was born. Learn something new every day.
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:51 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
So what's wrong with just calling them an "entitled ass"? Why does it have to be personalised by drawing in people (i.e. people whose actual name is Karen) who aren't?
I'd also think women/girls named Karen would possibly be classed as a minority group.

But it's all ***** and giggles as they are different
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:52 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'd also think women/girls named Karen would possibly be classed as a minority group.

But it's all ***** and giggles as they are different
The two-thousand some US boys named Karen certainly might be.
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:54 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
The two-thousand some US boys named Karen certainly might be.
That would make them a minority group indeed.

Picking on minorities.

Brilliant
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:58 AM   #307
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Just out of interest.

Do the people who have issues want people named Karen to change their name?
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:59 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Irony - saying that while doing exactly what you're saying.
Do you really believe that people are born asshats and can't change?
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:00 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Do you really believe that people are born asshats and can't change?
Can't speak for Atheist. But in my experience yes. Some are.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:02 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Can't speak for Atheist. But in my experience yes. Some are.
Guess you should start petitioning for the disbandment of the Justice system then, cause is people are just born that way and can't change, why should they be punished for for it, right?
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:03 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just out of interest.

Do the people who have issues want people named Karen to change their name?
Do people called Richard have to change theirs?
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:08 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
So what's wrong with just calling them an "entitled ass"? Why does it have to be personalised by drawing in people (i.e. people whose actual name is Karen) who aren't?
Cause "karen" is shorter. I mean we could call stupid and contemptible people, stupid and contemptible people too, but calling them a dick is just faster. I guess that's been around so long that no one cares if Richards and Dicks get drawn in and personalized, right?
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:09 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
"You can't use these words to insult people as a group because it is really bad and may hurt people's feelings"

"You can use this word to insult people as a group because it's really funny and hip"
Yeah, nice attempt at a strawman.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:11 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Guess you should start petitioning for the disbandment of the Justice system then, cause is people are just born that way and can't change, why should they be punished for for it, right?
Not sure what you mean. I have just meet people who are basically extremely un social in the extreme. Obviously you try to change it. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not.

Fair bit is due to alcohol and drugs while the mothers pregnant I imagine.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:14 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not sure what you mean. I have just meet people who are basically extremely un social in the extreme. Obviously you try to change it. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not.

Fair bit is due to alcohol and drugs while the mothers pregnant I imagine.
Which has got what to do with entitled people that believe that their privileges give them the right to treat people that they consider beneath them like crap?
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:19 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Which has got what to do with entitled people that believe that their privileges give them the right to treat people that they consider beneath them like crap?
Probably **** all. But I thought the thread was about slagging off people named Karen.

Honest question. Would you be annoyed you named a kid Karen atm?

Hypothetically if you did
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:29 AM   #317
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This is what slightly annoys me about some on the left (the NZ version which is mellow).

It is all everyone in this group (as we have to have groups). Will have hurt feelings. So stop that.

Oh look at that group. Let's give them ****
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 31st July 2020, 06:52 AM   #318
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IMO the whole 'Karen' thing really jumped the shark when people started associating a particular haircut with it. Behavior, attitude, even tone of voice, sure. But a ******* haircut? Is it a haircut you can only get if you demand to speak to the manager of the Supercuts?

Just like so many other popular terms ('troll' being the first one which comes to mind) it may have started out with a specific and useful definition, but over time its usage expands to the point where often it just means 'someone I don't like', or 'someone it's okay to laugh at and make fun of'.
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Old 31st July 2020, 08:05 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That's not what I said.
No, you said that anecdotes are not necessarily reliable. Which is a truism, and didn't really need saying. But you said it sarcastically, making it also unnecessarily combative. And then you argued when your sarcasm was returned in kind.

I assume you and SGM planned this in advance as a sketch to demonstrate Karen-type behavior.
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Old 31st July 2020, 08:07 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Two people then. It's not being done routinely in the wider media, as far as I can tell. In general, people are definitely using the word as a name, and not as a label.
Based on context, I'd say they're using the name as a label.

Also, I'm pretty sure nobody is seriously thinking about the logical implications of capitalizing versus not capitalizing. I think you may be confusing a figure of speech for a system of formal logic.
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