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Old 31st July 2020, 09:59 AM   #321
ThatGuy11200
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Cause "karen" is shorter. I mean we could call stupid and contemptible people, stupid and contemptible people too, but calling them a dick is just faster. I guess that's been around so long that no one cares if Richards and Dicks get drawn in and personalized, right?
It's been around long enough that we're all aware of it. Does that make it right?

If a person chooses to use Dick as their name, despite knowing the other use of that name, then that's their choice. If others are calling them Dick, even though they don't want to be called that, as a way to mock and/or bully them, then that isn't okay. At least, I would hope a decent person would think so.

Of course, Richard is the main name, Dick is the shortened version. Is there a short version of Karen?

As a victim of bullying I believe



I actually had to stop writing there for a while. I was getting upset thinking about it.

I hate to think that anyone would believe it's acceptable to allow innocent kids to have their self-esteem dragged down and ruined, the way mine has been for decades, just so those bullies can get some sick pleasure at making someone's life hell.

I think people who have no problem with that are detestable.
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Old 31st July 2020, 11:23 AM   #322
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
I hate to think that anyone would believe it's acceptable to allow innocent kids to have their self-esteem dragged down and ruined, the way mine has been for decades, just so those bullies can get some sick pleasure at making someone's life hell.

I think people who have no problem with that are detestable.
I'm just quoting that for emphasis.

You're proving the point Cully has been making.

Thanks for bringing some perspective to the discussion.
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Just an aside on names. At a school function a few years ago, kids were going up on stage after being called, and a girl named Paris Hilton was called up. The crowd of parents mostly let out a loud giggle.

Not one of those parents gave a split second's thought to how this girl - aged about 6 at the time - would feel as a result of their pathetic mirth at a name she didn't choose.

Physics works quite well in the abstract as well - actions often have equal and opposite reactions.
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Old 31st July 2020, 04:19 PM   #323
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I was really hoping this thread would become the thread where everyone shared their favorite Karen videos.
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Old 31st July 2020, 05:23 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I was really hoping this thread would become the thread where everyone shared their favorite Karen videos.
You're thinking of Reddit.
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Old 31st July 2020, 05:43 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, Bunnings is the name of the store in which she acted like a Karen.
Just to nitpick - in the Bunnings story, that was just...
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Pure journalistic laziness, just as any story involving one or more government party/department/member is labelled “xxxxx-gate”
...the Bunnings “Karen” was not a Karen.
She is an anti-mask CTer and self-proclaimed “activist” who went to 3 stores in order to deliberately confront the store staff and management and hopefully the police with her idiotic opinions.

Just like the Freemen, she soon got tripped up after OTT “I have the right to do what I like” bluster to the police who were called by these stores to remove her from the premises under COVID regulations.

The next day when reporters turned up on her doorstep . . . . she rang the police in order to threaten reporters with trespass to remove them from her property.

Apparently the right to do what you want only extends to herself.
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Old 31st July 2020, 05:46 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Just to nitpick - in the Bunnings story, that was just...
...the Bunnings “Karen” was not a Karen.
She is an anti-mask CTer and self-proclaimed “activist” who went to 3 stores in order to deliberately confront the store staff and management and hopefully the police with her idiotic opinions.

Just like the Freemen, she soon got tripped up after OTT “I have the right to do what I like” bluster to the police who were called by these stores to remove her from the premises under COVID regulations.

The next day when reporters turned up on her doorstep . . . . she rang the police in order to threaten reporters with trespass to remove them from her property.

Apparently the right to do what you want only extends to herself.
Ah! I see!! So we're nitpicking karens now? Wheels within wheels ...
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Old 31st July 2020, 05:50 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Probably **** all. But I thought the thread was about slagging off people named Karen.
I don't know where you got that idea. No one should be "slagged off" just because they have the same name as a meme, and anyone that does do that is being a richard.

Quote:
Honest question. Would you be annoyed you named a kid Karen atm?
No. I'd be annoyed if someone attacked her just because of her name, but then I'd also be annoyed if they did that because of her hair colour, because she wore glasses, because of her fashion style, because of she was too short, too tall, too fat, too skinny, too will developed, not well enough developed, you get the picture.

Originally Posted by ThatGuy11200 View Post
It's been around long enough that we're all aware of it. Does that make it right?

If a person chooses to use Dick as their name, despite knowing the other use of that name, then that's their choice. If others are calling them Dick, even though they don't want to be called that, as a way to mock and/or bully them, then that isn't okay. At least, I would hope a decent person would think so.

Of course, Richard is the main name, Dick is the shortened version. Is there a short version of Karen?

As a victim of bullying I believe

I actually had to stop writing there for a while. I was getting upset thinking about it.

I hate to think that anyone would believe it's acceptable to allow innocent kids to have their self-esteem dragged down and ruined, the way mine has been for decades, just so those bullies can get some sick pleasure at making someone's life hell.

I think people who have no problem with that are detestable.
Look, no-one should be mocked or bullied over their actual name, and that is not what is being advocated for, in any way or form. Anyone that attacks a person named Karen because of the meme needs to be smacked, not literally, and have it explain in small syllable words why that sort of behaviour in inappropriate. Anyone (especially an adult) making fun of a kid over their name is worse.

Having said that, kids are vile little monsters and bullying has been around long before "Karen" was a thing and, sadly, will be long after. We have tried for decades to stop bullying, and if anything its worse now than ever, with new and inventive ways to do it. If kids are picking on someone just because of her name, then it needs to be dealt with like any other form of bullying, be it because of hair colour, glasses, fashion style, being too short, being too tall, being too fat, being too skinny, being too well developed, or not well enough developed, having braces, having crooked teeth, being too bright, being not bright enough..... you get it. Kids can be little asshats and some never grow up leading to adults that are big asshats, and they will continue to do asshatery things and make fun of people, just look at the narcissistic bully that is the asshat in chief right now.

Not using "karen" as a term for entitled and privileged asshats that unleash their asshatery on service people and those that they believe are below their level of privilege, is not going to change the levels of bullying that kids face because the sad fact is that kids are little monsters and if they are going to bully someone because of their name (and there are a huge number of names that lead to bullying other then Karen) then they are going to bully that person regardless, and they'll just find some other reason to do it. That doesn't make it right, it's just a sad condemnation on the world and the way people raise their kids and let them get away from with being those evil little monsters.

At the end of the day however, using karen as a label for people that act up in a particular way, and bullying people named Karen just because of their name, are two way different things.
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Old 31st July 2020, 06:43 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Look, no-one should be mocked or bullied over their actual name, and that is not what is being advocated for, in any way or form.
Use as many words as you like to try to obfuscate the fact you've been well and truly pantsed by TG1200's post.

It's not advocating it, you're doing it. You are perpetuating and defending something that is:

Totally unnecessary
Potential harmful on its own
Sloppy thinking
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:29 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I don't know where you got that idea. No one should be "slagged off" just because they have the same name as a meme, and anyone that does do that is being a richard.







No. I'd be annoyed if someone attacked her just because of her name, but then I'd also be annoyed if they did that because of her hair colour, because she wore glasses, because of her fashion style, because of she was too short, too tall, too fat, too skinny, too will developed, not well enough developed, you get the picture.







Look, no-one should be mocked or bullied over their actual name, and that is not what is being advocated for, in any way or form. Anyone that attacks a person named Karen because of the meme needs to be smacked, not literally, and have it explain in small syllable words why that sort of behaviour in inappropriate. Anyone (especially an adult) making fun of a kid over their name is worse.



Having said that, kids are vile little monsters and bullying has been around long before "Karen" was a thing and, sadly, will be long after. We have tried for decades to stop bullying, and if anything its worse now than ever, with new and inventive ways to do it. If kids are picking on someone just because of her name, then it needs to be dealt with like any other form of bullying, be it because of hair colour, glasses, fashion style, being too short, being too tall, being too fat, being too skinny, being too well developed, or not well enough developed, having braces, having crooked teeth, being too bright, being not bright enough..... you get it. Kids can be little asshats and some never grow up leading to adults that are big asshats, and they will continue to do asshatery things and make fun of people, just look at the narcissistic bully that is the asshat in chief right now.



Not using "karen" as a term for entitled and privileged asshats that unleash their asshatery on service people and those that they believe are below their level of privilege, is not going to change the levels of bullying that kids face because the sad fact is that kids are little monsters and if they are going to bully someone because of their name (and there are a huge number of names that lead to bullying other then Karen) then they are going to bully that person regardless, and they'll just find some other reason to do it. That doesn't make it right, it's just a sad condemnation on the world and the way people raise their kids and let them get away from with being those evil little monsters.



At the end of the day however, using karen as a label for people that act up in a particular way, and bullying people named Karen just because of their name, are two way different things.
The irony of the Coon name thread reactiom is very loud
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:58 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Use as many words as you like to try to obfuscate the fact you've been well and truly pantsed by TG1200's post.
Garbage. TG1200's port was about kids being bullied because of their name. That has exactly nothing to do with your previous post that calling someone acting as an entitled asshat a "karen" is the equivalent of calling a black person the n-word.

Quote:
It's not advocating it, you're doing it.
I have not attacked any person because of their name, I would say prove or retract, but you won't do either so not a lot of point.

Quote:
Totally unnecessary
As humans we group and label things to allow us to shortcut our speech. It's not unnecessary, it's how we communicate.

Quote:
Potential harmful on its own
Any form of group labeling can be potentially harmful. Are you advocating for us to stop using group labels for every single grouping, or even stop grouping similar things and behaviours? Should we stop calling people that act in a racist manner "Racists" since it can be used in a potentially harmful way? Maybe we should stop referring to people that buy sex as "johns" as that might be potentially harmful to people named John.

Quote:
Sloppy thinking
This is just incorrect.
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Old 31st July 2020, 08:26 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The irony of the Coon name thread reactiom is very loud
Jeez mate, if you nail any more the builders union will be all over you.
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Old 31st July 2020, 09:25 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Ah! I see!! So we're nitpicking karens now? Wheels within wheels ...
Not a Karen.
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Old 31st July 2020, 11:36 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

What the hell does it have to do with women called Karen?
I haven’t followed this thread fully, and someone may have already said this.

I think it ironic that women have, like forever, been deterred from or prevented from asserting themselves and speaking their mind. Now women who do so, sometimes inappropriately and sometimes with justification have a new word designed to shut them up. And it’s now used with impunity.

Sometimes it’s quite okay to ask for a manager. I did just the other day when I returned some mouldy grapes to a store. The person I returned it to said she would give me more grapes. I wanted to let them know they had a problem. When the shop assistant repeated she could only replace the grapes I asked for the manager.

I suppose I’m a Chad. I can live with that. But just dump Karen please.
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:01 AM   #334
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I hope you are aware that it's not that they speak their mind. It's the mind that these particular women (and men) speak. I hope that you are also aware that asking to see the manager or calling the police in and of itself doesn't put you in the Karen (or Chad) category. It is what they are asking or calling about (and how) that's the point.

That you can use a new term the wrong way isn't new. You can do that with old words, too. For instance, you can call somebody entitled who doesn't actually act entitled, which, according to your logic, seems to be a reason for banning the word.
'Karen' isn't meant to be abused. That it can be abused, yes, obviously. Name one thing that can't.

I can see why some people named Karen may find it annoying, but if I were one, I'd probably make a joke of it. There seems to be many ways to cope with it:
Karens told us how they feel about the 'Bunnings Karen' stereotype (ABC News, July 30, 2020)
(I didn't know about the "Not happy, Jan!" meme.)
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:17 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I hope you are aware that it's not that they speak their mind. It's the mind that these particular women (and men) speak.
So call them out for what they say. Using the K word is just lazy stereotyping. One of my colleagues (a woman) opened a conversation with “I saw a few Karens today” without any elaboration. What the **** does that mean.
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:18 AM   #336
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Fantastic but why use a common women's name to slag idiots off?
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:21 AM   #337
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It is like.

"Yeah all the racist scum. You know the Danns."
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:24 AM   #338
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In fact I might work on that.

From now on all racist scum to me will be referred to as Dann.

Not the name obviously. Just an expression
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Old 1st August 2020, 07:36 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It is like.

"Yeah all the racist scum. You know the Danns."

Come now, don't be a cullenz.





(That smiley indicates I'm thinking, or a least hoping, that I'm being kind of witty, kind of funny. That I'm trying to keep this light, even while engaging. That I'm in agreement with your POV, and OP's -- even as I find it difficult to take this issue very seriously -- and that this one-sentence post of mine (one sentence, if you leave out the emoticon and the commentary) actually supports your own argument.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:30 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So call them out for what they say. Using the K word is just lazy stereotyping.

That is how language works: It uses words. First, you have a concept with a more or less precise definition, and then you name that concept so you don't have to present the whole definition every time you talk about it. That is practical, not lazy. It wouldn't be very practical if I had to describe what a word is every time I want to talk about it. I just name it: word!

Quote:
One of my colleagues (a woman) opened a conversation with “I saw a few Karens today” without any elaboration. What the **** does that mean.

You should have asked her, not us. That is how language works!
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:44 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fantastic but why use a common women's name to slag idiots off?
Exactly because it is a common women's name, so it was a name that it wouldn't be unlikely that a person of a certain ... let's say demographic might have, one that might more often than others exhibit a certain ... let's call it behaviour or attitude. That was also the case with the names Brian and Dennis in Denmark, as I have explained in an earlier post in this thread. Or a Chad in the USA.

That most women (or men) named Karen aren't Karens doesn't enter into it, and it is not supposed to.

Another possibility is that only one person, real or fictitious, becomes famous (or notorious) for something. Then you can use that person's name as a way of describing certain characterics, admirable or despicable, in others. In this thread, I have already mentioned a Svengali.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st August 2020, 11:05 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It is like.
"Yeah all the racist scum. You know the Danns."
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
In fact I might work on that.
From now on all racist scum to me will be referred to as Dann.
Not the name obviously. Just an expression

In order for that one to work, there would either a) have to be a certain segment of the population where you would expect to find more than the average number of racist scum, and the name would have to be relatively common in that group, or b) somebody called Dann would have to be notorious for being racist scum.

In spite of what you might think, in Danmark the name isn't very common, but it would be a problem that many of them are Jews and not known for being racists. And Dann with a double n is extremely rare. I only know that others than me exist because of the internet. The other option would be a notorious racist named Dann (or Dan), and if somebody like that exists (it's not entirely unlikely), at least I haven't heard of him, so that one would fail due to the lack of notoriety.

However, there is a very well-known Danish racist called Paludan, so an abbreviation of his name might stand a chance: He's a real 'dan.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st August 2020, 11:17 AM   #343
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PS

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
So call them out for what they say. Using the K word is just lazy stereotyping. One of my colleagues (a woman) opened a conversation with “I saw a few Karens today” without any elaboration. What the **** does that mean.
I think this problem is in the white-lives-matter category.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:26 PM   #344
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Come now, don't be a cullenz.

Nice!

As an aside, messing with Cullen's name in NZ - apart from the familiar and acceptable "Cully" - is punishable by law. That's one of the preserved names that can never be messed with.

It's a rugby thing.
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Old 1st August 2020, 01:13 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
That is how language works: It uses words. First, you have a concept with a more or less precise definition, and then you name that concept so you don't have to present the whole definition every time you talk about it. That is practical, not lazy. It wouldn't be very practical if I had to describe what a word is every time I want to talk about it. I just name it: word!




You should have asked her, not us. That is how language works!
Nonsense. You are defending stereotyping, that’s all. Stereotyping is lazy as it simplifies complex and nuanced matters. We are seeing people called Karen because of their hair style. Defend that.
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Old 1st August 2020, 01:33 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Nonsense. You are defending stereotyping, that’s all. Stereotyping is lazy as it simplifies complex and nuanced matters. We are seeing people called Karen because of their hair style. Defend that.
AND their never ending entitlement and prima donna behavior and never ending need to harp at the manager. The hair cut is just gravy on top. They deserve stereotyping and it will continue.
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Old 1st August 2020, 01:33 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Nonsense. You are defending stereotyping, that’s all. Stereotyping is lazy as it simplifies complex and nuanced matters. We are seeing people called Karen because of their hair style. Defend that.
It just occurred to me that you, me and Cully all agree on something.

The official odds on that happening were over 1,000,000:1 last week.

If something's that bloody obvious I'm struggling to see an opposing view that makes any kind of sense.
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Old 1st August 2020, 01:37 PM   #348
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It just occurred to me that you, me and Cully all agree on something.

The official odds on that happening were over 1,000,000:1 last week.

If something's that bloody obvious I'm struggling to see an opposing view that makes any kind of sense.
It should be noted the hairstyle is pretty bad....
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Old 1st August 2020, 02:25 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
AND their never ending entitlement and prima donna behavior and never ending need to harp at the manager. The hair cut is just gravy on top. They deserve stereotyping and it will continue.
It will certainly continue as long as sexually desperate male web dwellers and the woman who love them (mommy) need politically acceptable scapegoats to blame for the sad situations they find themselves in. Which should be a very long time.
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Old 1st August 2020, 02:59 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It will certainly continue as long as sexually desperate male web dwellers and the woman who love them (mommy) need politically acceptable scapegoats to blame for the sad situations they find themselves in. Which should be a very long time.
Or its about Prima Donna entitled hags with bad haircuts being singled out for crappy behavior in spite of misplaced sjw style whinging and fake outrage.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:07 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Or its about Prima Donna entitled hags with bad haircuts being singled out for crappy behavior in spite of misplaced sjw style whinging and fake outrage.
Yeah, women whose opinion you don’t agree with (sjw, nice stereotyping too) should just shut up and get back into the kitchen.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:10 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Come now, don't be a cullenz.











(That smiley indicates I'm thinking, or a least hoping, that I'm being kind of witty, kind of funny. That I'm trying to keep this light, even while engaging. That I'm in agreement with your POV, and OP's -- even as I find it difficult to take this issue very seriously -- and that this one-sentence post of mine (one sentence, if you leave out the emoticon and the commentary) actually supports your own argument.


Did kind of create a rod for my own back there!

Lol
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:30 PM   #353
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In case I haven’t been clear enough, Karen, like harpy, shrill and harridan are words used to tell women to shut up. I don’t think there are similar words telling men to shut up.

Here’s a thought, rather than getting on an Internet forum and having a whinge, how about doing what I do. When you see someone being bullied, intimidated, belittled or abused by males or females, speak up. Bullies are cowards who pick on others without power (shop assistants) and go to water when confronted by people they don’t have power over (me). I’ve done this all my life.

Nah, too hard. Much easier to mutter “Karen, Karen, Karen,,,,,”.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:44 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
In case I haven’t been clear enough, Karen, like harpy, shrill and harridan are words used to tell women to shut up. I don’t think there are similar words telling men to shut up.
Dick, Chad, bastard, incel, fag, faggot, homo, wanker, ape, caveman, ponce, cuck, prick, tosser, pussy, nerd, geek...
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:45 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yeah, women whose opinion you don’t agree with (sjw, nice stereotyping too) should just shut up and get back into the kitchen.
When they hound people in public like prima donnas, bother the manager etc, they get what they deserve, it has nothing to do with this attempt to paint it as chauvanism, there are male karens to, the title isnt the stereotyping tradegy some want it to be, it is fitting and deserved.
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:00 PM   #356
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It is quite funny how people on this thread have suddenly started writing Karen with a small "k" to try to separate it from a person's name, as if this backs their argument, when it isn't normally.
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:20 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dick, Chad, bastard, incel, fag, faggot, homo, wanker, ape, caveman, ponce, cuck, prick, tosser, pussy, nerd, geek...
In no way comparable. I didn’t say there weren’t words to insult men. Apart from the never used word Chad, none of these are words designed to tell men to shut up.

ETA what is the male version of harridan?
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:22 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
When they hound people in public like prima donnas, bother the manager etc, they get what they deserve, it has nothing to do with this attempt to paint it as chauvanism, there are male karens to, the title isnt the stereotyping tradegy some want it to be, it is fitting and deserved.
Yes, keep insulting people by remote control rather then personally calling out inappropriate behaviour.
Edited by Agatha:  Edited breach of rule 12
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:26 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
In no way comparable. I didn’t say there weren’t words to insult men. Apart from the never used word Chad, none of these are words designed to tell men to shut up.

ETA what is the male version of harridan?
That is probably because dudes just tell other dudes to shut up. And chuck one of those words on the end.

It isn't sexist that women don't seem to do this.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st August 2020, 05:20 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
In no way comparable. I didn’t say there weren’t words to insult men. Apart from the never used word Chad, none of these are words designed to tell men to shut up.

ETA what is the male version of harridan?
It seems the words specifically meant to insult men do so by calling them woman-like. "Sissy", etc. The only things I can think of that are generally insults for males still reference women: "son of a bitch" refers to a man's mother, and "bastard" is an indirect slur on the target's parents for not being married, which is generally more shameful for the female parent.
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