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Old 8th July 2020, 08:37 AM   #361
d4m10n
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You are aware that people were blacklisted for being suspected leftists and other undesirable opinions, right?
Well aware; Karina Longworth dedicated an entire season of one of my fav podcasts to the subject.

Do you think the sort of cancel culture practised by Hollywood back then is a good example of how any society ought to conduct itself today?

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Old 8th July 2020, 08:41 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
As time has passed, I think it's become increasingly clear that Roseanne seems to have some sort of mental health issue.

With that knowledge, I think it reflects very poorly on the television executives that gave her such a platform to spout her racist nonsense. They should have known better. It's hard to imagine that Barr kept her mental illness a secret during the phases of making the new show, and it was irresponsible to allow the project to proceed forward knowing that it would likely end poorly for all involved, especially Barr.

I'm not aware of mental illness causing racism. Seems more likely to me that Barr is just feeling less inhibited and let the mask slip.

Feel free to try to cancel me. There's already too many turkeys digging through trash in Norwood. We could do with one less.
The appropriate response is to announce your withdrawal from social media, dedicating your time to working for a mental health charity and donating your earnings from your new album / book / marathon to mental health charity. That you recognise that mental health is an invisible disability and you recognise that unconscious disablism is an issue. That those with mental health issues are discriminated against in the job market and stigmatised leading to a cycle of poverty. That those with mental health problems are disproportionately incarcerated. That mental health issues are a major cause of global mortality.

Personally, I do believe that people should have a right to express even unpopular opinions in their private life without being sacked. I do not think that bullying and harassing people for offhand comments (and twitter does provoke throw away remarks), ill judged jokes etc is good. Turkeys should be free to express their views on Ms. Barr (and I have no view or knowledge of her personally). All I wished to do was use your post as an illustration of the type of thing that in the wrong circumstances could lead to you losing a sinecure and having to scratch in the dirt to keep body and soul together.

So please don't think that I truly think well or ill of you as a person, nor that I agree or disagree with your posts in general. This post just had aspects (derogatory term, an expression that could be interpreted as denying the equality of a disenfranchised community) that could be interpreted as provocative.
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Old 8th July 2020, 08:43 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Well aware; Karina Longworth dedicated an entire season of one of my fav podcasts to the subject.

Do you think the sort of cancel culture practised by Hollywood back then is a good example of how any society ought to conduct itself today?

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I think blacklisting leftists, among other social ostracism tools, was very effective in its intended goal, to eradicate leftism in this country.

If we can make racists and other bigots as afraid as leftists in previous eras, that would be swell.
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Old 8th July 2020, 08:44 AM   #364
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I'll admit to being one of those people who is slightly, just slightly since it's not some huge deal, that racism was finally the straw that broke the back about Roseanne since that chick had been full on crazy for a long time.

But I'm rare in that I put intellectual standards above moral ones, so "crazy" gets you on my blacklist faster than "immoral."
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Old 8th July 2020, 08:46 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
The appropriate response is to announce your withdrawal from social media, dedicating your time to working for a mental health charity and donating your earnings from your new album / book / marathon to mental health charity. That you recognise that mental health is an invisible disability and you recognise that unconscious disablism is an issue. That those with mental health issues are discriminated against in the job market and stigmatised leading to a cycle of poverty. That those with mental health problems are disproportionately incarcerated. That mental health issues are a major cause of global mortality.

Personally, I do believe that people should have a right to express even unpopular opinions in their private life without being sacked. I do not think that bullying and harassing people for offhand comments (and twitter does provoke throw away remarks), ill judged jokes etc is good. Turkeys should be free to express their views on Ms. Barr (and I have no view or knowledge of her personally). All I wished to do was use your post as an illustration of the type of thing that in the wrong circumstances could lead to you losing a sinecure and having to scratch in the dirt to keep body and soul together.

So please don't think that I truly think well or ill of you as a person, nor that I agree or disagree with your posts in general. This post just had aspects (derogatory term, an expression that could be interpreted as denying the equality of a disenfranchised community) that could be interpreted as provocative.
Your hypothetical falls a bit flat because there's no danger in someone like me falling victim to the mob over the comment I made. Calling Barr a racist kook is a safe opinion to convey in public. Sucks that racists can't be racist anymore without getting their lives wrecked, I guess. I think it's great, but others may disagree.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:19 AM   #366
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I think there's a few things at play here.

I think it's obvious that freedom of speech doesn't confer immunity from the consequences of that speech. If you say something in public, then you should be prepared for the backlash to whatever you've said. People on twitter posting memes and gifs ridiculing you and saying that you're "cancelled" are perfectly within their rights and is all part of freedom of speech.

If your employer becomes aware of the kerfuffle and decides that you can no longer be employed by them, then that's trickier. Is what you said protected speech? What is your employment contract? What are the relevant laws? Are you actually being fired or is your contract no longer being renewed? It's too complicated an issue to have a blanket opinion on, but my general feeling WRT most cases like this is that the US has terrible employment laws and that it should be more difficult to fire people in the US than it actually is.

Death/rape threats, and people sending abuse of any kind* are not okay.

Whether it's okay to actually send someone's employer a link to what that person said is, again, a more complicated question. I lean towards "no", but I can also envision situations where it may be. If someone is discovered to be the moderator of a Facebook group dedicated to spreading neo-Nazi propaganda, "1488", swastikas, and the like included, would be one case off the top of my head. I understand that there's a lot of grey here.

And, while I've said that I lean towards "no", I do fully support people's right to boycott any business and to inform that business of why they're being boycotted. Again, I can't really give a blanket answer.

I do think that, for example, Gary Kasparov's assertion that the current culture is like Communist Russia in terms of people being afraid to say what they think is overblown. State censorship, backed up by the threat of torture and death, certainly isn't the same as feeling like you can't speak your mind because, in response, other people will also speak their mind. But at the same time I do recognise that mob mentality is something that exists and some people do pile on others for the sake of piling on, and that this often happens without an actual examination of what was said and in what context it was said. And I know of at least one instance where such a pile-on has contributed to a suicide.

The last thing to note is that this is often framed as the left, or people who are "woke" going against the right, but this isn't really partisan. People from both ends of the spectrum gang up on people who voice different views to theirs.

*And, yes, I know that the line between ridiculing and abusing can be blurry sometimes, especially when a lot of people are involved.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:20 AM   #367
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Quote:
"emotional harm"?
Hurt feelings?
Are we seriously discussing real-world sanctions, up to and including financial and professional damage over hurt feelings?
Yes; and more and more people seem to think hurt feelings is the equivalent of broken bones.

While no one likes to have their feelings hurt, the damages being caused by this trend are far, far worse by every practical measure.

Quote:
This is the sort of comment that leads to people getting doxxed, harassed and sacked. You are clearly expressing prejudice against people with mental health problems. You are saying that they should not be employed. You use a derogatory term about people with mental health problems (the K word), that I will not repeat.

This pretty much is the same sort of phraseology as tweets that get people sacked.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/m...ccos-life.html

Now I am certainly not going to spread your comments any more widely than this post or take any other action. But I just want to make the point this is an example of what could cause a twitter storm etc.
Yes; this.

I prefer the "I disagree with every word you say, but I completely support your right to say it" world.

"Emotional damage" is like a paper cut. It can hurt like hell and bleed a lot, but it's not going to cause any kind of permanent damages. But taking your grievance to a person's family, friends, co-workers, etc. is going far too far.

I think the result is exactly the opposite of what those who support this trend want it to be.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:31 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Yes; and more and more people seem to think hurt feelings is the equivalent of broken bones.

While no one likes to have their feelings hurt, the damages being caused by this trend are far, far worse by every practical measure.



Yes; this.

I prefer the "I disagree with every word you say, but I completely support your right to say it" world.

"Emotional damage" is like a paper cut. It can hurt like hell and bleed a lot, but it's not going to cause any kind of permanent damages. But taking your grievance to a person's family, friends, co-workers, etc. is going far too far.

I think the result is exactly the opposite of what those who support this trend want it to be.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-cu...uts%20remained.


I agree.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:34 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You are aware that people were blacklisted for being suspected leftists and other undesirable opinions, right?
I grew up hearing about it.

I was told that it was bad.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:36 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
And, yes, I know that the line between ridiculing and abusing can be blurry sometimes, especially when a lot of people are involved.
Yeah we'll here's the thing, we're not allowed those anymore. "Grey areas" exist for one reason and one reason only, to shut down discussions.

If Liberal Person A presents a case where someone is over the top harassment level racist and face simple basic reactions to it, then some Conservative Person will, as a metaphysical certainty, run into the discussion demanding to know "where the line is."

And people will, both honestly and dishonestly, argue that such distinctions are necessary. The problem is even if that's true that doesn't change the fact that "clarifying the grey area" never actually happens.

You've been around the block. Can you count on the fingers of more than one hand the number of times a discussion has gone into the "Okay but we have to clarify the grey area" weeds and ever come back out, so say anything of moving into a place any actual meaningful discourse or understanding?
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:41 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
"Emotional damage" is like a paper cut. It can hurt like hell and bleed a lot, but it's not going to cause any kind of permanent damages. But taking your grievance to a person's family, friends, co-workers, etc. is going far too far.
It's worse than that. The call-out culture people are fixated on their emotional harms like Smeagol with the ring.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:48 AM   #372
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Well because we have an entire demographic of people now who's one goal in life is to be the biggest douchenozzle they can be while remaining "technically within the rules."

Yeah it's stupid to equate "you hurt my fee-fees" with physical assault, but people do that because try-hard edge lord bullies don't stop until they've doing something is equivalent physically assaulting someone.

In other words maybe the whiny college libruls in their safe spaces wouldn't be going on about "triggering" them if people would just stop doing the thing when they call it "bothering" or "upsetting" them.

It's basically

Person A: "Mock, mock, mock, insult, insult, insult."
Person B: "Can you stop that?'
Person A: "No! Make me! Mock, mock, mock, insult, insult, insult."
Person B: "Please stop that, it's very upsetting."
Person A: "Oh I'm not hurting you. Poke poke poke"
Person B: "Yes! You are hurting me! Whatever makes you stop!"
Person A: "LOL! Lookit at this snow flake!"

They had to conceptualize it as the first person "hurting them" because that person wasn't going to even consider stopping because "It's not like I'm hurting you!"

Now has this worked? Of course not "LOL I'm triggered" is a massive joke at this point but that's not the same thing as not understanding how the concept came about.

This is why rolling your eyes at the idea of being "triggered" while still thinking that anyone who intentionally does it is a sadist is not some paradox.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:49 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
I prefer the "I disagree with every word you say, but I completely support your right to say it" world.
Which is why police should be insulated from being fired over political opinions like how they are looking forward to killing blacks in the upcoming race war.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...le-we-n1232072

I mean if we didn't have violent white supremacists in uniform we would never get enough cops to maintain the status quo.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:52 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah we'll here's the thing, we're not allowed those anymore. "Grey areas" exist for one reason and one reason only, to shut down discussions.

If Liberal Person A presents a case where someone is over the top harassment level racist and face simple basic reactions to it, then some Conservative Person will, as a metaphysical certainty, run into the discussion demanding to know "where the line is."
Which is why these people should get behind Jeremy Joseph Christian who defended himself and his right to free speech form just this kind of cancel culture. A proud culture warrior for those against this sorry state of public discourse.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:53 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well because we have an entire demographic of people now who's one goal in life is to be the biggest douchenozzle they can be while remaining "technically within the rules."

Yeah it's stupid to equate "you hurt my fee-fees" with physical assault, but people do that because try-hard edge lord bullies don't stop until they've doing something is equivalent physically assaulting someone.
Same kind of crazy BS that merely communicating to someone by pointing a gun at them is some kind of serious assault. Any laws doing this would be absolutely crazy.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:58 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Cancel culture has always existed. Certain ideas have always been unpopular enough that publicly stating them resulted in social ostracism.

Right wingers are mad now that racism and other bigotry, which had previously been considered fair play, is now on the list of socially damnable behavior.
No, liberals are upset that totalitarians using the credibility of liberalism — we can call these people Woke or PC or whatever — are having women fired from their jobs for saying the most anodyne and self-evident things in the world, like men are not women.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:00 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Now has this worked? Of course not "LOL I'm triggered" is a massive joke at this point
Yeah, well to be fair trying to pass off getting teased on Twitter as real-life PTSD was bound to attract ridicule.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:01 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Which is why police should be insulated from being fired over political opinions like how they are looking forward to killing blacks in the upcoming race war.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...le-we-n1232072

I mean if we didn't have violent white supremacists in uniform we would never get enough cops to maintain the status quo.
This is the most disingenuous reframing of what she said imaginable. You should try actually engaging what she obviously means instead of doing whatever *gestures disdainfully* this is.

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Old 8th July 2020, 10:04 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by MisAndreG View Post
This is the most disingenuous reframing of what he said imaginable. You should try actually engaging what he obviously means instead of doing whatever *gestures disdainfully* this is.
That is exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't get someone fired in Dragonlady's own words. Racist talk like that is explicitly what she is trying to protect, so why shouldn't she address that?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:04 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah, well to be fair trying to pass off getting teased on Twitter as real-life PTSD was bound to attract ridicule.
But that's my point. Just telling the bullies "Hey just don't tease me on Twitter" never works so the people being teased had find a way of getting through to the people teasing them hoping for them to stop.

Did they pick the smartest way of doing that with trying to... rebrand teasing as a form of assault? Well no, I'm not on "Triggered"'s side here per se, but I can't hate them for just not wanting the teasing to keep going.

That's the point. The bullies aren't going to stop because they conceptualize it as "Well I'm not hurting anyone" so the teasees (that needs to be a word) tried to rebrand it into them actually hurting them. Was that well thought out?, no. Did it work? Also no. Did it increase accuracy and precision instead of decreasing? Also no. But that's not the same thing as without merit.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:07 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But that's my point. Just telling the bullies "Hey just don't tease me on Twitter" never works so the people being teased had find a way of getting through to the people teasing them hoping for them to stop.
Yea it is all just words nothing that means anything, just talk to the parents of those fake dead kids at newtown. Suddenly a little teasing is a big deal.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:10 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by MisAndreG View Post
No, liberals are upset that totalitarians using the credibility of liberalism — we can call these people Woke or PC or whatever — are having women fired from their jobs for saying the most anodyne and self-evident things in the world, like men are not women.
Well put.
"LINOs" maybe?
Too derivative?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:13 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by MisAndreG View Post
This is the most disingenuous reframing of what he said imaginable. You should try actually engaging what he obviously means instead of doing whatever *gestures disdainfully* this is.
But there have been instances of cops facing disciplinary action for engaging in racist social media activity in their personal lives.

Are we fine with that? Or are they victims of “cancel culture”?

There seems to be so much concern over “where the line is drawn”, but that concern goes both ways.

How much intolerable behavior should people and businesses be forced to endure before they are within their rights to take action?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:15 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
But that's my point. Just telling the bullies "Hey just don't tease me on Twitter" never works so the people being teased had find a way of getting through to the people teasing them hoping for them to stop.

Did they pick the smartest way of doing that with trying to... rebrand teasing as a form of assault? Well no, I'm not on "Triggered"'s side here per se, but I can't hate them for just not wanting the teasing to keep going.

That's the point. The bullies aren't going to stop because they conceptualize it as "Well I'm not hurting anyone" so the teasees (that needs to be a word) tried to rebrand it into them actually hurting them. Was that well thought out?, no. Did it work? Also no. Did it increase accuracy and precision instead of decreasing? Also no. But that's not the same thing as without merit.
Bullies have weaponized bullying and turned it into a finely-crafted and executed art form.

Until we acknowledge that, no honest discussion on this issue can take place.

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Old 8th July 2020, 10:16 AM   #385
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Also this entire issue would be improved by a factor of about 100 billion if the tribes could just hit pause on making "Oh looky I get a chance to use the other side's argument against them, this is better than eating chocolate while having an orgasm" their primary goal in discourse.

The petards are all full, stop running people up them.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:16 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Bullies have weaponized bullying and turned it into a science.

Until we acknowledge that, no honest discussion on this issue can take place.
Wasn't bullying always a weapon?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:18 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But there have been instances of cops facing disciplinary action for engaging in racist social media activity in their personal lives.

Are we fine with that? Or are they victims of “cancel culture”?

There seems to be so much concern over “where the line is drawn”, but that concern goes both ways.

How much intolerable behavior should people and businesses be forced to endure before they are within their rights to take action?
Exactly and those police and the criminal justice professor fired for advocating beating protester and reporters are great reference points.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...aces-calls-his
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:19 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Bullies have weaponized bullying and turned it into a science.

Until we acknowledge that, no honest discussion on this issue can take place.
We can acknowledge it all we want, we don't have anything approaching a way of dealing with it.

Maybe if we hadn't let the internet spend the last 2-3 decades in a quest to root out every single way, method, tone, technique, and flavor of making an argument or presenting information and murder it we'd have somewhere to go.

But we let it do that, and now we are where we are.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:20 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Wasn't bullying always a weapon?
Yeah but it was a crude one. Powerful but crude. We let them hone it.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:20 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also this entire issue would be improved by a factor of about 100 billion if the tribes could just hit pause on making "Oh looky I get a chance to use the other side's argument against them, this is better than eating chocolate while having an orgasm" their primary goal in discourse.
Trying to figure out and get people to refine their positions through comparison to other cases is legitimate.

Quote:
The petards are all full, stop running people up them.
That doesn't make any sense, petards are bombs not poles.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:22 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But there have been instances of cops facing disciplinary action for engaging in racist social media activity in their personal lives.

Are we fine with that? Or are they victims of “cancel culture”?

There seems to be so much concern over “where the line is drawn”, but that concern goes both ways.

How much intolerable behavior should people and businesses be forced to endure before they are within their rights to take action?
What is that beyond: "I know it when I see it"? (conceded that examples could be found that we would both find intolerable- those are examples, not principles)

And if that is the only definition, how could one not expect it to be subject to debate?
Many liberal societies find the concept of stifling debate itself an "intolerable behavior". I tend to agree.

I will submit that responding in kind seems to be widely accepted as fair.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:25 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
But there have been instances of cops facing disciplinary action for engaging in racist social media activity in their personal lives.

Are we fine with that? Or are they victims of “cancel culture”?

There seems to be so much concern over “where the line is drawn”, but that concern goes both ways.

How much intolerable behavior should people and businesses be forced to endure before they are within their rights to take action?
I don’t know what you guys think cancel culture is but it’s not when a person with state power is racist and therefore has his state power removed, nor is it businesses fire employees for holding what can be reasonably deemed intolerable views — it’s when someone says something like BLM sucks, for example, who is then mobbed online and then that online mobbing translates into material effects on that persons life.

It’s when Woke people (I hate this term, but in place of a better one I’ll use it) who have a lot of cultural power, wielding a crazy hypostatisation of discourse — where it is Reality — want to control it and everyone who deviates from their orthodoxy by shaming and destroying their reputation, and perhaps their lives.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:27 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also this entire issue would be improved by a factor of about 100 billion if the tribes could just hit pause on making "Oh looky I get a chance to use the other side's argument against them, this is better than eating chocolate while having an orgasm" their primary goal in discourse.

The petards are all full, stop running people up them.
If your own argument is working against you, it is clearly based upon prejudice and not principle.
That should give one pause.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:28 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by MisAndreG View Post
No, liberals are upset that totalitarians using the credibility of liberalism — we can call these people Woke or PC or whatever — are having women fired from their jobs for saying the most anodyne and self-evident things in the world, like men are not women.
I'm trying to imagine what time period in history you imagine that "cancel culture" didn't exist?

Was it in the early 1900's when black people got lynched for having the wrong attitude? Or was it in the 50's when anyone with a whiff of leftism was called a communist traitor? Maybe it was in the 1700's when religious purity wars ran rampant?

When, in your mind, was there a great "tolerance" that the woke scolds ended?

Right wingers are just mad that the shoe is on the other foot. Being a racist or other kind of bigot is more risky than it's ever been. Sucks to suck.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:32 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm trying to imagine what time period in history you imagine that "cancel culture" didn't exist?

Was it in the early 1900's when black people got lynched for having the wrong attitude? Or was it in the 50's when anyone with a whiff of leftism was called a communist traitor? Maybe it was in the 1700's when religious purity wars ran rampant?

When, in your mind, was there a great "tolerance" that the woke scolds ended?

Right wingers are just mad that the shoe is on the other foot. Being a racist or other kind of bigot is more risky than it's ever been. Sucks to suck.
These were all good things?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:32 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by MisAndreG View Post
I don’t know what you guys think cancel culture is but it’s not when a person with state power is racist and therefore has his state power removed, nor is it businesses fire employees for holding what can be reasonably deemed intolerable views — it’s when someone says something like BLM sucks, for example, who is then mobbed online and then that online mobbing translates into material effects on that persons life.
So when should a racist rant caught on film cost someone their job, we have a lot of people saying such things shouldn't cost people their job, so clearly racist rants costing people their job is something many people think is cancel culture.

For example indicted criminal Amy Cooper is being used as an example of why racist rants shouldn't cost people their job. So there must be some line between Amy Cooper and those police officers that it goes from acceptable firing to cancel culture. Where is that line?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:34 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
If your own argument is working against you, it is clearly based upon prejudice and not principle.
That should give one pause.
You see when you say this and then in your next breath go:

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
These were all good things?
showing that you aren't even putting effort into understanding anyone's argument... I feel pretty comfortable assuming I was right.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:35 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm trying to imagine what time period in history you imagine that "cancel culture" didn't exist?

Was it in the early 1900's when black people got lynched for having the wrong attitude? Or was it in the 50's when anyone with a whiff of leftism was called a communist traitor? Maybe it was in the 1700's when religious purity wars ran rampant?

When, in your mind, was there a great "tolerance" that the woke scolds ended?

Right wingers are just mad that the shoe is on the other foot. Being a racist or other kind of bigot is more risky than it's ever been. Sucks to suck.
I’m genuinely puzzled by this. Do you think canceling a liberal feminist for refusing to be obsequious to woke orthodoxy is a-okay because you think it’s useful and good to cancel a racist?
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:36 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
These were all good things?
My point is that social norms and consequences for violating them has always existed.

Those examples were all negative ones. I'm sure there have been plenty of social norms through history that are good, and getting "cancelled" for violating them was a benefit to society.

Again, I contend that cancel culture has always existed. People are only crying about it now because they are on the losing end of a larger culture war. Racists are mad they can no longer be openly racist without consequence, for example.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:37 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by MisAndreG View Post
I don’t know what you guys think cancel culture is but it’s not when a person with state power is racist and therefore has his state power removed, nor is it businesses fire employees for holding what can be reasonably deemed intolerable views — it’s when someone says something like BLM sucks, for example, who is then mobbed online and then that online mobbing translates into material effects on that persons life.

It’s when Woke people (I hate this term, but in place of a better one I’ll use it) who have a lot of cultural power, wielding a crazy hypostatisation of discourse — where it is Reality — want to control it and everyone who deviates from their orthodoxy by shaming and destroying their reputation, and perhaps their lives.
Got it.

Can you provide an example of this happening, exactly as you’ve described?
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