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Old 19th July 2020, 10:27 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Based on the false assumption that opposition to Trump is for its own sake rather than Trump frequently being on the wrong side of issues, facts, and reality in general.
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Old 19th July 2020, 11:12 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Your OP doesn't mention any specific countries.

It is a broad brush about some "mask rage" concept every where.
It's not about a "concept", it's about incidents. Have there been incidents in New Zealand where people who are opposed to wearing masks have physically accosted, assaulted, or even murdered or attempted to murder people who asked them to do so? If your country has indeed suffered such incidents, then I stand corrected and am genuinely interested in hearing about the non-political motivations of those attacks in your country.

If such incidents have not been happening in New Zealand, though, then nobody in this thread was ever talking about your country at any point, so you can stuff the performative indignation, or alternatively find another thread to derail with it.
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Old 19th July 2020, 12:47 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's not about a "concept", it's about incidents.
No, it's about a concept. Not everything revolves around Americans and their stupid president. There's ASD and sensory processing issues, there's asthma, there's not liking being told what to do, there's the failure of the WHO to take a stance on mask wearing at the beginning of the pandemic, there's Plandemic, there's anti-vaxx, there's claustrophobia, there's real fear over what's happened/happening to the economy and a want to return to normal.

It's way more than Trump ( or TDS ).
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Old 19th July 2020, 02:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
No, it's about a concept. Not everything revolves around Americans and their stupid president.
These incidents aren't happening in other places. They're happening in the US. And the attitudes behind these incidents in the US, indeed revolve around Americans and their stupid president.
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Old 19th July 2020, 03:25 PM   #45
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These incidents are happening in other places though. Just recently we had a guy shot by police over what started as a mask rage incident.

Link


No mention of Trump
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Old 19th July 2020, 06:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
These incidents are happening in other places though. Just recently we had a guy shot by police over what started as a mask rage incident.

Link


No mention of Trump
May be not but Canada is so saturated with US culture that many here cannot see the difference.

https://leger360.com/surveys/weekly-...r-june-2-2020/

Quote:
42% of Americans would prefer Justin Trudeau to lead their country, while 38% would prefer Donald Trump. In contrast, 76% of Canadians would prefer Trudeau and 10% would prefer Trump.
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Old 19th July 2020, 06:40 PM   #47
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Interesting, 10%. I can't say I've ever met a Canadian Trump cheerleader.

Out here in Victoria we've had regular anti-mask protests, They're CAM types from what I can see of their signs when I drive by and there's no more than about 20 of them. There might have been a MAGA hat in there, or maybe it was just a red hat, I couldn't tell, I was more concentrating on trying not to crash.

If I remember, I'll go check them out next weekend, see what they're all about.
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Old 19th July 2020, 07:08 PM   #48
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There was a French bus driver killed by people refusing to wear masks.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53367432
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Old 19th July 2020, 08:29 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
These incidents are happening in other places though. Just recently we had a guy shot by police over what started as a mask rage incident.

Link


No mention of Trump
Quote:
This is the first known death related to mask-wearing in Canada, but not the first incident of mask rage. In early July, a video circulated online of a man in a T&T Supermarket in Mississauga raging against staff members.

“Where did we get our Wuhan communist virus? From China. From you guys,” the man can be heard saying. On Thursday, Peel Regional Police announced they’d laid charges of causing a disturbance against John McCash, 48, from Mississauga; his first court date is Sept. 25.
There may be "no mention of Trump" directly by name, but that man for instance is directly quoting Trump's rhetoric about the virus.

I'm not about to attempt to argue about whether Trump is the original source of this rhetoric, or if he's just tapped into a larger worldwide phenomenon of fascism and racism. If it makes you feel better, you can substitute "an international fascist-racist movement" wherever "Trump" appears in my posts. But the effect is the same; those people aren't stabbing store employees and calling it the "Wuhan communist virus" because they disagree scientifically about how effective masks are at slowing viral spread. They're freaking out for purely political reasons.
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Old 19th July 2020, 08:31 PM   #50
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Today in Michigan

Quote:
The incident occurred Thursday at Jet’s Pizza in Grand Haven, Mich., Fox 4 KC reports. The suspect, who has been identified as Tammy Rose North, allegedly became upset after one of the restaurant’s workers asked her to wear a mask.

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer issued a mandate on July 10 that requires residents to wear a mask in indoor public spaces and crowded outdoor spaces, Detroit Free Press reports.

North allegedly responded to the face mask request by sticking her hands underneath the plexiglass barrier at the counter and flipping off employees, Fox 4 reports. She also reportedly kicked another customer that attempted to intervene.

By the time Grand Haven Department of Public Safety Officer Everado Pedroza Jr. arrived, North was getting into her pickup truck, MLive reports. Pedroza reportedly ordered her to stop.

At this point, North allegedly back over the officer’s foot with her truck, police said. The officer was reportedly taken to a nearby hospital and is expected to fully recover.

North was later taken into custody and has been charged with fleeing and eluding police, resisting and obstructing, and disturbing the peace.
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Old 20th July 2020, 01:50 AM   #51
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Not certain this belongs here as it's not about grown adults throwing a toddler tantrum over being asked to wear a mask but...

Swiss hotel outbreak infects staff wearing face shields but not those wearing masks. https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/onl...-face-shields/

Might be significant, though it might just reflect different work being done by those wearing shields vs masks, but the local health authority is now saying plastic visors alone are not sufficient protection.
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Old 20th July 2020, 06:28 AM   #52
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Whoa....Some guy raging about his asthma and ending his tirade with "go back to China" is a part of some sort of " international fascist-racist movement". I mean, there's got to be hundreds of these anti-maskers out there, possibly even a thousand.

But America is going to save the world next November by voting Trump out of office, right ? Sure he may do some sort of Tony Montana routine and refuse to leave the Oval Office but in the end, he's toast and the international fascist-racist movement with him.

My, how the definition of fascism has changed.

ETA: More fascism in action ?

Last edited by Stout; 20th July 2020 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 20th July 2020, 06:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I put one on every time I go into a store or enclosed area, which isn't all that often. But when I'm out walking usually twice a day, I don't feel the need to have one, even though I occasionally pass by people. (I do have one with me at all times.) There is always enough room to maintain a distance, and there are never enough people out and about to be concerned about. If I was doing a crowded lake path, it would be a different story.
This describes my practice pretty well.

While I have no political/moral opposition to masks, I don't want to wear one anytime I don't have to. They suck.

But I always wear one when going inside the grocery store, liquor store or gas station. And even then, I'm keeping my distance from others.

I do go to a park everyday with my dog. I don't wear a mask then, but I always have one in my back pocket (just in case...) and I keep my distance from others. My dog is a bit reactive anyway, so we usually look for relatively uncrowded parks and keep to ourselves.

I also try to allow a little more distance between us and anyone ahead of us on the trail.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:17 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Whoa....Some guy raging about his asthma and ending his tirade with "go back to China" is a part of some sort of " international fascist-racist movement". I mean, there's got to be hundreds of these anti-maskers out there, possibly even a thousand.

But America is going to save the world next November by voting Trump out of office, right ? Sure he may do some sort of Tony Montana routine and refuse to leave the Oval Office but in the end, he's toast and the international fascist-racist movement with him.

My, how the definition of fascism has changed.

ETA: More fascism in action ?
Why are you being so deliberately obtuse about this? You really don't think most of these anti-mask people are responding to political trends and anxieties?

You're acting like someone said they're all a secret society planning things out, when that's obviously not what is being said. Most of the resistance seems to be for political reasons, and most of those political reasons seem to align with far-right type movements and ideas. Do you not agree?

Is it just the mention of Trump that you're hung up on? If so, I'll agree that all of this is probably bigger than Trump. But he is a significant figure in much of this. Even his rabid supporters wouldn't deny that, surely.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:25 AM   #55
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One tantrum I was shown by Facebook had a woman whose tirade included accusing the store staff of being "democrats" amongst many other terrible things, and I thought there's the kernel.

So far as she's concerned, masks mark you out as a Dem, and she would literally rather die than be forced, by Democrats, to look like a Democrat.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:51 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Why are you being so deliberately obtuse about this? You really don't think most of these anti-mask people are responding to political trends and anxieties?

You're acting like someone said they're all a secret society planning things out, when that's obviously not what is being said. Most of the resistance seems to be for political reasons, and most of those political reasons seem to align with far-right type movements and ideas. Do you not agree?

Is it just the mention of Trump that you're hung up on? If so, I'll agree that all of this is probably bigger than Trump. But he is a significant figure in much of this. Even his rabid supporters wouldn't deny that, surely.
Obtuse ? lol. Like I said before, not everything in the world revolves around the USA and your unfortunate political situation. What I'm telling you is what I'm seeing where I live and very little of the resistance to wear masks comes from some sort of, what was that wording again ? Oh yes, "an international fascist-racist movement".

Now if you want to limit these threads to the USA only, then state USA ONLY in the thread title and OP otherwise you're going to get responses that might not apply to USA ONLY and those might ne a bit of a challenge to deal with when they stray from the per-concieved path that the discussion is *supposed* to take.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:58 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Now if you want to limit these threads to the USA only, then state USA ONLY in the thread title and OP otherwise you're going to get responses that might not apply to USA ONLY and those might ne a bit of a challenge to deal with when they stray from the per-concieved path that the discussion is *supposed* to take.
Or you can exercise a little thing called "reading comprehension", note the fact that the OP talks about "support for Trump", and deduce thereby that the thread is talking about something within the US.
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Old 20th July 2020, 08:18 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Or you can exercise a little thing called "reading comprehension", note the fact that the OP talks about "support for Trump", and deduce thereby that the thread is talking about something within the US.
So put it in the USA politics section then and chalk it up to just another thread to bang on about Trump and Trump supporters while ignoring the myriad of other reasons that people might have for objecting to wearing a mask.
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Old 20th July 2020, 08:22 AM   #59
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Seen a few comments about it being silly to wear a mask alone in a car. I personally think it's sillier to take the mask off for the ride from one location where you need a mask to another location where you need a mask. If I'm out running all my errands, touching things in public places, I'm not touching my face until I get home and wash my hands. A mask is just not that uncomfortable.
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Old 20th July 2020, 08:47 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Seen a few comments about it being silly to wear a mask alone in a car. I personally think it's sillier to take the mask off for the ride from one location where you need a mask to another location where you need a mask. If I'm out running all my errands, touching things in public places, I'm not touching my face until I get home and wash my hands. A mask is just not that uncomfortable.

For my part I've yet to find a mask or way to wear one which doesn't fog up my glasses. So while I have less that zero problem masking up to go inside the shop or whatever I'm not about to wear one while driving alone, if for nothing else than the visual impairment angle. I do keep mini bottles of sanitizer in the center console, however. Never realized how often my face itches until around late March of this year.
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Old 20th July 2020, 09:15 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
... I do keep mini bottles of sanitizer in the center console, however. Never realized how often my face itches until around late March of this year.
Out of direct sunlight at least, I hope. I've been circulated an email warning from work about sanitiser venting alcohol fumes into hot cars and sparks (perhaps from central locking relays) starting fires, and today my wife found a bottle she'd left in her own car was shrunk and distorted and distinctly less full than she remembered (so was probably now an ineffective bottle of mostly glycerine rather than mostly alcohol).
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Old 20th July 2020, 09:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Out of direct sunlight at least, I hope. I've been circulated an email warning from work about sanitiser venting alcohol fumes into hot cars and sparks (perhaps from central locking relays) starting fires, and today my wife found a bottle she'd left in her own car was shrunk and distorted and distinctly less full than she remembered (so was probably now an ineffective bottle of mostly glycerine rather than mostly alcohol).
That sounds like nonsense, I'd be more worried about it losing effectiveness due to the alcohol evaporating.
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Old 20th July 2020, 10:04 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
That sounds like nonsense, I'd be more worried about it losing effectiveness due to the alcohol evaporating.
It didn't sound convincing but it was accompanied by a photo of a car supposedly so damaged.

Here's the document they sent (not my employer's site, it looks like lots of workplaces have been sharing it): https://www.fia.uk.com/uploads/asset...icle-Fires.pdf
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Old 20th July 2020, 10:47 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Remember, it was Nancy was telling people to go hug everyone in Chinatown at one point, or something along those lines anyway.
Well, visited San Francisco's Chinatown district three weeks before the shelter-in-place order. Not the greatest idea but hardly 'try to pack a stadium in Florida after the bodies have started stacking up' stupid either.
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Old 20th July 2020, 10:59 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Seen a few comments about it being silly to wear a mask alone in a car. I personally think it's sillier to take the mask off for the ride from one location where you need a mask to another location where you need a mask. If I'm out running all my errands, touching things in public places, I'm not touching my face until I get home and wash my hands. A mask is just not that uncomfortable.
I just keep a bottle of hand sanitizer in the car to use when I get in. That said, I work outside and so only put on a mask if I'm going into a store, I do that rarely enough that I've yet to mask up twice in a week let alone twice in an outing (I have two in the car).

For the record, I'm asthmatic and spent a larger chunk of my childhood than I would have liked in an oxygen tent desperately struggling to breath. I don't want to go out that way and wearing a mask causes me as a lifelong asthmatic absolutely no problems what so ever.
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Old 20th July 2020, 11:02 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
For my part I've yet to find a mask or way to wear one which doesn't fog up my glasses. So while I have less that zero problem masking up to go inside the shop or whatever I'm not about to wear one while driving alone, if for nothing else than the visual impairment angle. I do keep mini bottles of sanitizer in the center console, however. Never realized how often my face itches until around late March of this year.
Use shaving cream or dish soap and rub onto the lenses and let dry. Wipe off with a clean cloth and it helps for several hours.
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Old 20th July 2020, 11:11 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Not certain this belongs here as it's not about grown adults throwing a toddler tantrum over being asked to wear a mask but...

Swiss hotel outbreak infects staff wearing face shields but not those wearing masks. https://www.thelocal.ch/20200715/onl...-face-shields/

Might be significant, though it might just reflect different work being done by those wearing shields vs masks, but the local health authority is now saying plastic visors alone are not sufficient protection.

Yes!!! Take that, ya' holier-than-thou, faceshield wearin' shills!!!
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Old 20th July 2020, 11:28 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Remember, it was Nancy was telling people to go hug everyone in Chinatown at one point, or something along those lines anyway.
I thought that soundbite might have gotten more play, but it's long been eclipsed by several hundred other nonsense statements since then. I mean, couldn't someone have replied "Wuhan is 6,000 miles from San Francisco; why shouldn't the House Speaker go to Chinatown?"
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Old 20th July 2020, 11:38 AM   #69
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MASSIVE anti mask protest in Vancouver yesterday. 50 people and no sign of international fascism/racism cabals.

Quote:
Steven Taylor, a professor and clinical psychologist at the University of British Columbia who studies the psychology of pandemics says the reactions of those like Cuff and Standfield are not uncommon, but the minority.

"'You're not the boss of me' type of person, they're allergic to being told what to do," Taylor said.

"They have a phenomenon called psychological reactance. When authorities tell them to do something, they feel their liberties are impinged upon [and] they react with a strong pushback."

He said when it comes to masks, such people feel their right to choose is more important than their well-being.

"They value their freedom more than they value their health," he said.
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Old 20th July 2020, 12:15 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Use shaving cream or dish soap and rub onto the lenses and let dry. Wipe off with a clean cloth and it helps for several hours.

Noted for future trials - thanks!
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Old 20th July 2020, 12:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Use shaving cream or dish soap and rub onto the lenses and let dry. Wipe off with a clean cloth and it helps for several hours.
I thought that you were suppose to spit on them ... or ... maybe that's just for SCUBA?
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Old 20th July 2020, 12:24 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
MASSIVE anti mask protest in Vancouver yesterday. 50 people and no sign of international fascism/racism cabals.



Link
I understand that, but why the rage when someone exercises the same freedoms they claim are being infringed upon.

"I am sorry sir/maam but you will need to leave my store if you choose to not wear a mask".

"No ******* way! I demand service and I refuse to leave!"

It's beyond comprehension.
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Old 20th July 2020, 12:51 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
I understand that, but why the rage when someone exercises the same freedoms they claim are being infringed upon.

"I am sorry sir/maam but you will need to leave my store if you choose to not wear a mask".

"No ******* way! I demand service and I refuse to leave!"

It's beyond comprehension.
That's just it. If it were as simple as merely wanting a choice or not wanting to be told what to do, they wouldn't be upset when they see someone else choosing differently. In many of the incidents in the US, people aren't just attacking shopkeepers who explain the store policy to them; sometimes they're also attacking bystanders or fellow customers who are wearing the masks. They don't want anybody to be wearing them, even willfully..
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Old 20th July 2020, 12:55 PM   #74
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
MASSIVE anti mask protest in Vancouver yesterday. 50 people and no sign of international fascism/racism cabals.



Link
Not quite:

Quote:
Others like Susan Standfield, one of the organizers of anti-lockdown protests which have taken place in B.C. since April, said on Sunday at the mask rally that she doesn't believe the pandemic is real, is not worried about getting COVID-19, and refuses to wear a mask.
They're there. The belief that the pandemic is a hoax made up to "control" the populace IS a political conspiracy theory, specifically an alt-right/fascist-leaning one. If you pick at these individuals long enough, they will tell you that the originators of the "hoax" are liberals and/or Jews.
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Old 20th July 2020, 01:17 PM   #75
Stout
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Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
I understand that, but why the rage when someone exercises the same freedoms they claim are being infringed upon.

"I am sorry sir/maam but you will need to leave my store if you choose to not wear a mask".

"No ******* way! I demand service and I refuse to leave!"

It's beyond comprehension.
The idea is to have a one man protest. Go into the store, make a scene and hope you end up online for all your fellow maskophobes to see. Really, you have to walk right past the signs saying that a mask is required to enter the store, probably wearing a mask in the first place if there's someone at the door.

Is it a mind numbingly stupid way to try and make a point ? Of course it is.
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Old 20th July 2020, 01:28 PM   #76
MattNelson
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"Violent bus riders refusing to wear masks drive surge in attacks on MTA workers" July 19, 2020 -- https://nypost.com/2020/07/19/violen...n-mta-attacks/

I had an experience last month being the only occupant of an early morning Portland, Oregon (suburb) bus, when a young man boarding was asked for his [required and freely available] mask. He yelled near the top of his lungs that he would not wear a mask. The poor bus driver had to listen to a 30-second tirade that ended with the the "health issue" excuse, almost an afterthought. Probably an Alex Jones fan.
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Old 20th July 2020, 01:40 PM   #77
Stout
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Not quite:



They're there. The belief that the pandemic is a hoax made up to "control" the populace IS a political conspiracy theory, specifically an alt-right/fascist-leaning one. If you pick at these individuals long enough, they will tell you that the originators of the "hoax" are liberals and/or Jews.
That must be an American thing. Admittidly I've only talked to a couple of these pandemic-is-a-hoax types and both of them were going on about "the drug companies" and vitamins.
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Old 20th July 2020, 03:52 PM   #78
lionking
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
Use shaving cream or dish soap and rub onto the lenses and let dry. Wipe off with a clean cloth and it helps for several hours.
An even simpler way is to push the mask towards the top of your nose and put the glasses over the top of the mask. Works for me. If you are wearing the mask for some time, put a bit of tape over your nose and the top of the mask.
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Old 20th July 2020, 04:22 PM   #79
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Obtuse ? lol. Like I said before, not everything in the world revolves around the USA and your unfortunate political situation. What I'm telling you is what I'm seeing where I live and very little of the resistance to wear masks comes from some sort of, what was that wording again ? Oh yes, "an international fascist-racist movement".

Now if you want to limit these threads to the USA only, then state USA ONLY in the thread title and OP otherwise you're going to get responses that might not apply to USA ONLY and those might ne a bit of a challenge to deal with when they stray from the per-concieved path that the discussion is *supposed* to take.
How did your naming the link fascism make any sense at all?

I'm skeptical of her excuse:
Quote:
... "I can't wear a mask because I have severe claustrophobia, which leads to anxiety and panic attacks to myself," Bibby told Castanet News.
Anyone can get a doctor to write them an excuse for not wearing a mask. She should have taken a valium.
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Old 20th July 2020, 04:25 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
For my part I've yet to find a mask or way to wear one which doesn't fog up my glasses. ...
Try putting your glasses over the mask instead directly on your nose. Works for me but I have to be careful lest the glasses fall off.
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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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