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Old 20th July 2020, 04:32 PM   #81
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
MASSIVE anti mask protest in Vancouver yesterday. 50 people and no sign of international fascism/racism cabals.

Link
50 people is massive?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 20th July 2020, 04:36 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
... Now with that out of the way, first incident (for the thread):

Woman refuses to leave Verizon store for not wearing mask; urinates on floor .
ĎWear Your Mask: The Urine Testí Analogy

Makes more sense than ever with this real life example.

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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 20th July 2020, 05:18 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How did your naming the link fascism make any sense at all?
I take it you missed the question mark at the end of that label, hence your confusion.

Quote:
I'm skeptical of her excuse:
You can be skeptical all you want, if anxiety disorder denial and shaming is your thing. All we got is what we got and if you can find something that shows she's a nazi and refusing to wear a mask in honor of Trump, then we might have to go with that.

Quote:
50 people is massive?
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Old 20th July 2020, 06:12 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I take it you missed the question mark at the end of that label, hence your confusion.
How does a question mark make the link title make any sense?

Oh oh, I know. It doesn't.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
You can be skeptical all you want, if anxiety disorder denial and shaming is your thing. All we got is what we got and if you can find something that shows she's a nazi and refusing to wear a mask in honor of Trump, then we might have to go with that.
Sometimes you have to tell a patient news they don't want to hear. It's not shaming.
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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 20th July 2020, 06:25 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How does a question mark make the link title make any sense?

Oh oh, I know. It doesn't.
It does when you actually read it as a question Is the passenger a fascist for refusing to wear a mask or is the airline being fascists for demanding she wear one or...maybe...there's no fascism involved at all.

Quote:
Sometimes you have to tell a patient news they don't want to hear. It's not shaming.
You mean like her claustrophobia isn't real and it's all in her head ?
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Old 20th July 2020, 06:56 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post

You mean like her claustrophobia isn't real and it's all in her head ?
More like fear of a mask isn't a symptom of claustrophobia.
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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:02 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
More like fear of a mask isn't a symptom of claustrophobia.

Psychology Today begs to differ.


Quote:
Some people also donít like masks because they panic when wearing one, due to claustrophobia or feeling like itís hard to breathe; others find masks intolerable because of conditions like autism spectrum disorder and sensory processing issues
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:17 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
So intensely sensitive to claustrophobia that she can't have a cotton mask, but being in an aircraft is okey-dokey? Sounds more like a friendly doctor/letter writer.

Of course, if wearing a mask is such an insurmountable obstacle, its a no-brainer to just not fly. Guess she's ok with extreme claustrophobia when it's quite convenient for her?

Come on, man. This reeks of walking your pets around calling them 'comfort animals' with a letter from some quack.
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Old 20th July 2020, 07:19 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That's a magazine blog reporting on excuses people make up to pretend they have medical reasons they can't wear masks.

They make up the same bogus stuff like asthma. The masks do not bring on asthma attacks.

They also don't lower your O2 or increase your CO2.
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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 20th July 2020 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 20th July 2020, 08:09 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So intensely sensitive to claustrophobia that she can't have a cotton mask, but being in an aircraft is okey-dokey? Sounds more like a friendly doctor/letter writer.

Of course, if wearing a mask is such an insurmountable obstacle, its a no-brainer to just not fly. Guess she's ok with extreme claustrophobia when it's quite convenient for her?

Come on, man. This reeks of walking your pets around calling them 'comfort animals' with a letter from some quack.
It could very well be a friendly doctor, all we know is what's been reported. We don't know her motivations for flying in the first place. Vacation ? Funeral ? Having to hand the kid over to her estranged husband who divorced her because she was nuts ?
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Old 21st July 2020, 05:03 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So intensely sensitive to claustrophobia that she can't have a cotton mask, but being in an aircraft is okey-dokey? Sounds more like a friendly doctor/letter writer.

Of course, if wearing a mask is such an insurmountable obstacle, its a no-brainer to just not fly. Guess she's ok with extreme claustrophobia when it's quite convenient for her?

Come on, man. This reeks of walking your pets around calling them 'comfort animals' with a letter from some quack.

This blatant denial of a persons' lived experience has triggered me so intensely I will now retreat to the loving arms coils of my emotional support python. At least Mister Hisser won't judge me if I'm not wearing a mask.
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Old 21st July 2020, 07:19 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Obtuse ? lol. Like I said before, not everything in the world revolves around the USA and your unfortunate political situation. What I'm telling you is what I'm seeing where I live and very little of the resistance to wear masks comes from some sort of, what was that wording again ? Oh yes, "an international fascist-racist movement".

Now if you want to limit these threads to the USA only, then state USA ONLY in the thread title and OP otherwise you're going to get responses that might not apply to USA ONLY and those might ne a bit of a challenge to deal with when they stray from the per-concieved path that the discussion is *supposed* to take.
But people already conceded that it's not just the US. Did you read the rest of my post?

I'm asking you if you think the mask resistance is political. I think it is. Trump is the figurehead for it in the US, but it's the same kind of far-right thing in other places too, I think.

It seemed to me like the OP was under the impression this was mostly confined to the US, which is why he focused on the US. He accepted the correction that it isn't a solely American problem, though.

You don't have to "lol" at me. I didn't mean obtuse as an insult. I meant, it seemed like you were pretending not to understand what was being said and focusing intently on the mention of Trump. It was just a little confusing. (I often feel like I'm missing something in these discussions, so I've been accidentally making a lot of stupid posts lately while trying to figure out what people are actually saying.)


EDIT: I am not denying that masks are uncomfortable and can cause claustrophobia. I barely leave my home anymore because I can't stand wearing them. Just seeing everybody else wearing them freaks me out too, quite badly, and makes me panic about how all this can ever end. I HATE HATE HATE masks. HATE THEM. But I'm not talking about people like me, or even people with more severe medical/psychological issues that make them resist wearing a mask. Those people tend to believe in the pandemic, they just hate masks. The mask protesters, and the goblins causing violent incidents in stores and crap, are a different sort entirely. I feel they're politically motivated.
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Old 21st July 2020, 09:19 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I'm asking you if you think the mask resistance is political. I think it is. Trump is the figurehead for it in the US, but it's the same kind of far-right thing in other places too, I think.
Some of it is, for sure but a lot of it isn't, IMO and I'm more addressing the refusal to acknowledge that there are reasons people object to and protest the requirement to wear a mask other than being on the "far right" I'm also talking IRL experiences and wondering whether real life is actually beginning to reflect the Internet with all of this far right/far left stuff we see hurled about on a daily basis.

The people I've talked to about their resistance to wear a mask would be horrified if they got called far right for it and I would agree. They're mostly anti-vax conspiracy theorists, some of whom used to wear a mask ( right at the beginning of the pandemic ) but have since relaxed that practice due to, well, pretty much hating the things.



A funny thing happened locally in the early days of the pandemic. Somebody on our local Reddit posted a photo of a woman selling masks on the street, $5. There was a big hullabaloo and since she was literally just up the street I went and talked to her. They were hand made cloth masks, just like we see everywhere now and designed to help prevent the wearer from spreading the virus. "Just like they wear in Asia", she told me. I told her about the Reddit thread, she said "whatever" I bought one and off I went.

That was back in the day when social distancing was a really big thing. People crossing the street to avoid oncoming pedestrians, playgrounds wrapped in barbed wire, most stores closed...Karens in the media and social media complaining about pretty much everyone. Introverts were loving "the new normal"......

Then all the mental health stuff started happening which, IMO, forced quite a lot of people to not only throw caution to the wind but actively oppose pandemic control measures and want to get on with their lives.

Lucky for us, we don't have a city wide mask requirement, it could happen but as of writing it's up to the individual stores and business whether they want mask wearers only. Should that change, then I'll have to dig out the black balaclava.
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Old 21st July 2020, 07:27 PM   #94
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Who I feel sorry for, and who I used to see ads from all the time but don't now, are the counter-culture NRA neon skull antidisestablishmentarian mask sellers. They chose their customer base as people who showed how much a bad-boy they were by going masked. Now, those very same people are flaunting their freedoms by going maskless, and the sellers don't want some namby-pamby liberal commie wearing their masks....
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Old 21st July 2020, 08:29 PM   #95
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I don't like wearing a mask. None that I have tried are comfortable. It makes my face sweat with heat. And, I do have claustrophobia.

Having said that, I wear one, and will continue to until further notice. I maintain social distance.

Simply, it's sensible.
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Old 21st July 2020, 08:38 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Try putting your glasses over the mask instead directly on your nose. Works for me but I have to be careful lest the glasses fall off.
That's what I've been doing and it works great! At least for the glasses that have large enough lenses. Also closes off the gaps around my nose so more air goes through the mask and less though gaps.
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Old 21st July 2020, 10:36 PM   #97
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Oh everybody's going to be so confused now. Here they were fighting the good fight for Trump against masks, and now Trump is telling them to wear masks.

What is a good Trumper to do?
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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 21st July 2020 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 21st July 2020, 11:56 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh everybody's going to be so confused now. Here they were fighting the good fight for Trump against masks, and now Trump is telling them to wear masks.

What is a good Trumper to do?
Good! He should be doing that, and if people wear the mask because of it, all the better.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 22nd July 2020, 12:24 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

What is a good Trumper to do?
Oh, that's easy.
Trump has always been for masks, and anything else is fake news.
la-la-laaaa can't hear you.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 12:51 AM   #100
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Trump is now officially a part of the Deep State. The Swamp was too hard for him to drain.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 01:58 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The people I've talked to about their resistance to wear a mask would be horrified if they got called far right for it and I would agree. They're mostly anti-vax conspiracy theorists, some of whom used to wear a mask ( right at the beginning of the pandemic ) but have since relaxed that practice due to, well, pretty much hating the things.
Well, there's not much to argue with anti-vaxxers that will convince them, but no one likes to wear masks. But some of us understand that it's about protecting other people.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 06:26 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm figuring this category of incident might merit its own thread, because these incidents are becoming prolific, or at least are certainly not slowing down.

For the sake of honestly I'm going to lay out my thoughts about the phenomenon of people who refuse to wear masks during the Covid pandemic. I am certainly open to challenges and discussion on these observations; they are only what I have seen and interpreted.

Basically - mask rage is entirely political. Like "intelligent design", or climate change, I recognize that a few mask-opponents are trying to frame their arguments as scientific; but ultimately that is prevarication and the reason they don't want to wear masks is because fighting mask mandates is a way of expressing support for President Trump, and people who wear masks and businesses that require them are being interpreted as expressing defiance of Trump. The President told them at the beginning that Covid-19 is a hoax - either the existence of the virus altogether, or the threat it poses - and has given them permission, continuously reinforced, to ignore medical experts and treat local and state government officials who take the virus seriously as "anti-Trump" by definition and therefore political enemies. I have seen mask-advocates who are not necessarily Trump-opponents. I have not, however, seen any vocal mask-opponents who were not full-MAGA Trump supporters. Every single anti-mask rally or demonstration I've seen, and most of the individual incidents of "mask rage" that I've seen videos of, have had the mask-opponent(s) shouting some kind of Trump campaign slogan at some point.

Now with that out of the way, first incident (for the thread):

Woman refuses to leave Verizon store for not wearing mask; urinates on floor



But that is just my experience so far, which is not absolute of course.
Sorry that I'm late to this thread but your first given example here doesn't appear to support your idea that all anti-maskers are Trump supporters. I can't see anything in the story that indicates whether the woman who urinated on the floor is a Trump supporter. Even her name is not mentioned in any of the stories I saw about this. I guess she's lucky that the press refrained from publishing her name.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 06:38 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Sorry that I'm late to this thread but your first given example here doesn't appear to support your idea that all anti-maskers are Trump supporters. I can't see anything in the story that indicates whether the woman who urinated on the floor is a Trump supporter. Even her name is not mentioned in any of the stories I saw about this. I guess she's lucky that the press refrained from publishing her name.
Isnít it obvious? Sheís part of the Golden Shower Division for Trump.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 22nd July 2020, 06:41 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Isnít it obvious? Sheís part of the Golden Shower Division for Trump.
She's Russian?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 06:43 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
She's Russian?
Russian for the loo, I think. She didnít make it.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 22nd July 2020, 06:47 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Russian for the loo, I think. She didnít make it.
When you're Russian for something, there's no time for Stalin.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 06:53 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
When you're Russian for something, there's no time for Stalin.
Thatís Putin it mildly.
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 22nd July 2020, 07:59 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, there's not much to argue with anti-vaxxers that will convince them, but no one likes to wear masks. But some of us understand that it's about protecting other people.

I read one of the most inane 'clever' posts about mandatory mask rules recently on another site. Someone posted something akin to "If I have to wear a mask for the sake of your health I'm going to start slapping cheeseburgers out of your hands, too.". A surprisingly (read: depressingly) large number of people thought that was a well-crafted retort and cut right to the heart of things.

Again, I'm starting to root for the virus at times...
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Old 22nd July 2020, 08:09 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
I read one of the most inane 'clever' posts about mandatory mask rules recently on another site. Someone posted something akin to "If I have to wear a mask for the sake of your health I'm going to start slapping cheeseburgers out of your hands, too.". A surprisingly (read: depressingly) large number of people thought that was a well-crafted retort and cut right to the heart of things.

Again, I'm starting to root for the virus at times...
Except that catching a virus is not a choice.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 08:14 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Except that catching a virus is not a choice.
Oh, people tried to make that point. Didn't do any good. "It's all part of the (Progress/Liberal/SJW/bug-eyed-monster) agenda toward collectivism and to denigrate individual choice and responsibility.".

I mean, I sort of get the people arguing that masks aren't effective. I disagree, but if your starting point is "these do zero good" then arguing against them makes sense from their PoV. But to think that having to wear something to protect other people from your germs is akin to you having the authority to tell them how to eat for their own good?

On so many fronts lately there seems to be two categories of views opposed to mine : the ones I disagree with but understand never the less, and the ones which leave my brain feeling like Robbie the Robot's after Morbius told him to shoot the captain in the chest.

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Old 22nd July 2020, 08:24 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Oh, people tried to make that point. Didn't do any good. "It's all part of the (Progress/Liberal/SJW/bug-eyed-monster) agenda toward collectivism and to denigrate individual choice and responsibility."
Yes. Wearing a mask is a sign of subservience, apparently. It's really getting insane.

Nice Forbidden Planet reference, by the way.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 03:56 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's a magazine blog reporting on excuses people make up to pretend they have medical reasons they can't wear masks.

They also don't lower your O2 or increase your CO2.
Neither of which are required to make you feel out of breath or give you a headache.

My 230 lbs of lean body mass hauling around 300 lbs needs a lot of oxygen. Cloth masks just don't do it, I learned that working in a dusty environment. The larger rubber kind like car painters use work. Except they only filter the intake.

But really? When we all going to get it, and 97% of the people who get it don't even know they had it? And a 1/2% death rate? What else is that rare- Bee stings? Abscessed teeth? Wood chippers?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 03:58 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
‘Wear Your Mask: The Urine Test’ Analogy

Makes more sense than ever with this real life example.

Sure, but wouldn't a better analogy be to a diaper?

And half the reason to wear a diaper is to prevent somebody else from wetting you?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:09 PM   #114
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Thongs, masks are more like thongs:

Small piece of cloth and some string;
Wash after every use;
Hard to 'breath', parts get sweaty;
Bring on claustrophobia;
They both can make my glasses fog up;
Few of us look better in them;
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:18 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
For my part I've yet to find a mask or way to wear one which doesn't fog up my glasses. So while I have less that zero problem masking up to go inside the shop or whatever I'm not about to wear one while driving alone, if for nothing else than the visual impairment angle. I do keep mini bottles of sanitizer in the center console, however. Never realized how often my face itches until around late March of this year.
I finally found one that fits nicely just under the edge of my glasses and doesn't fog them up. But it does make my face really hot, so I take it off while in the care. Lots of hand sanitizer though.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:25 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I finally found one that fits nicely just under the edge of my glasses and doesn't fog them up. But it does make my face really hot, so I take it off while in the care. ....
But what if I don't care ?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:25 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So intensely sensitive to claustrophobia that she can't have a cotton mask, but being in an aircraft is okey-dokey? Sounds more like a friendly doctor/letter writer.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge something just because it doesn't make sense to you. My mom has a dramatic fear of going to the dentist, because when they have her mouth open, she feels like she can't breathe and is going to suffocate. It is diagnosed as a claustrophobia reaction, and she now takes valium before going to the dentist... and also had to find a dentist who is skilled at working with people who are that scared and irrational about it. She also has no problem in aircraft. It has something to do with her face and mouth being covered or impeded. She also has trouble with masks, for the same reason. She hasn't been going out much during the pandemic, and she takes a valium if she has to go out. My dad is high risk, so she does what she needs to do to keep him protected, but she's been having legitimate struggles with it.
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:29 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But what if I don't care ?
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Old 22nd July 2020, 04:32 PM   #119
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Thunderfoot takes on some guy spreading misinformation about masks:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 22nd July 2020, 05:21 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
You mis-spelled c-a-r. I lept from there.
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