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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:05 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
You mis-spelled c-a-r. I lept from there.
Ahh... that makes a lot more sense now!
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:09 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Wear a mask, and if it’s too hard for you to breathe with one on then stay home. And if it is too hard for you to carry around your amount of weight you could start losing it instead of claiming special snowflake status.
I inferred that casebro is lean, but has a job that requires him to be carrying around relatively heavy equipment or gear. He's 230, and is carrying an additional 70 lbs of gear.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:12 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You should go and tell this "fact" to the millions of surgeons worldwide, performing 15 hour operations without collapsing due to lack of oxygen.
Ever read about fluid dynamics?
To be fair, surgeons wear very lightweight masks that are very easy to breathe through. They're designed to keep the bodily fluids of the patient out of the orifices of the surgeon, and to reduce the potential for drops of saliva or snot from the surgeon to get into an open wound. They're not designed to contain a virus.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:12 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I inferred that casebro is lean, but has a job that requires him to be carrying around relatively heavy equipment or gear. He's 230, and is carrying an additional 70 lbs of gear.
I wore a gasmask for almost 48 hours straight in a full combat load in Kandahar in July, without sleeping and taking in only water.

Anyone who's bitching about wearing a cloth mask to pick up their Funyuns from the Walmart can cry me a river, then stick their head into that river until the bubbles stop.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:13 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I inferred that casebro is lean, but has a job that requires him to be carrying around relatively heavy equipment or gear. He's 230, and is carrying an additional 70 lbs of gear.
Its confusingly worded. You can't be any percentage lean, if obese overall. It means none of you is lean. Unless maybe ripped bodybuilder with a freakishly fat foot or something.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:15 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I wore a gasmask for almost 48 hours straight in a full combat load in Kandahar in July, without sleeping and taking in only water.

Anyone who's bitching about wearing a cloth mask to pick up their Funyuns from the Walmart can cry me a river, then stick their head into that river until the bubbles stop.
Fair, none of the masks we're talking about compare to chem gear.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:18 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Its confusingly worded. You can't be any percentage lean, if obese overall. It means none of you is lean. Unless maybe ripped bodybuilder with a freakishly fat foot or something.
Yes, it is confusingly worded. He can weigh in on his own, but I inferred that he's not obese at all, just carrying a lot of stuff for his job. I could be wrong.

Is it the 230 throwing you off? FWIW, my spouse is 6'2", 210, and has low body fat. He's got a lot of muscle mass... plus also being shaped like a mountain gorilla. And I'm pretty sure his skeleton is half his weight, that man's got some seriously dense bones.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:19 PM   #168
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Anyway, masks suck, they're uncomfortable, and I don't like them. But I wear them. And I have no problem with people bitching about how horrible they are... because they are.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 12:28 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Anyway, masks suck, they're uncomfortable, and I don't like them. But I wear them. And I have no problem with people bitching about how horrible they are... because they are.
Bitch all you want, just don't be a walking plague blanket because "bUt MaH RiGHTS"
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Old 23rd July 2020, 01:17 PM   #170
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Right, some bitching is fair. Maybe a little under the breath in annoyance. But they are non-negotiable for use, all the time. Were all in the same boat, so chin up.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 01:56 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
2,6 million Americans die each year. 1/2% of that is umm 14,000. We each die exactly ONE time, so that figure is valid in the long term. There will be a bubble this year for sure. But long run, 14K- or less. I did look for census "causes of mortality", it only goes down to #15, pneumonitis caused by getting food or drink into your lungs, 20,000. I'm sure we have all kniw lots of people that died that way....... huh? No? Well that is Covid- in the long run.

Throw in to the mix that the true cause of death is not reported, if you die WITH Covid it is reported as a Covid caused death. Positive swab, hit by a bus- Covid Death! I await some new stats on total deaths for 2020. So I can see just how many excess deaths get caused by Covid. I expect the total deaths to not top 3M, probably 100K + true deaths of the 200k that will be credited to C-19.
Yes, it's amazing isn't it? If you discount all the Covid Deaths there will be no Covid Deaths.

Seriously, dude, you tried all these chestnuts in the other thread way back in March. They still suck.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 02:02 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
This is a skeptic site isn't it?

Looks like Libruls can't abide a different interpretation of the facts. Or at least not the ones into Pandemic Porn.
Looks like you “don’t understanding” [sic] the line between extreme cleverness and extreme stupidity.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 02:03 PM   #173
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Thankfully no one wears any face masks in the Nordic countries. They wore them at one of the local thai restaurants for a little while but then dropped it.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 02:10 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I inferred that casebro is lean, but has a job that requires him to be carrying around relatively heavy equipment or gear. He's 230, and is carrying an additional 70 lbs of gear.
Nope. He “clarified” it was 300 lbs total, which is almost 140 kgs, so 70 lbs of that is bodyfat.

It’s the claim that “well I’m really heavy so fluid dynamics and airflow and my amateur epidemiology and my lack of giving a **** for anyone else means I get a special don’t need a mask card so suck it up liberal losers!”

He does support the OP’s view that the “arguments” are just rationalizations for an ideology.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 02:12 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Thankfully no one wears any face masks in the Nordic countries. They wore them at one of the local thai restaurants for a little while but then dropped it.
Yeah, and things are going pretty well in Sweden, oh wait....
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Old 23rd July 2020, 03:06 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, and things are going pretty well in Sweden, oh wait....
Things are moving in the right direction here but mask wearing Spaniards are experiencing new large scale outbreaks and have reenacted regional lockdowns.

I guess they must wear more masks or something.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 05:24 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
How many are 300 lbs and climb up a flight of stairs while doing said operations?
Irrelevant. The masks do not limit oxygen supply in any way.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 05:25 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Things are moving in the right direction here but mask wearing Spaniards are experiencing new large scale outbreaks and have reenacted regional lockdowns.

I guess they must wear more masks or something.
Link?
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Old 23rd July 2020, 05:28 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Things are moving in the right direction here but mask wearing Spaniards are experiencing new large scale outbreaks and have reenacted regional lockdowns.

I guess they must wear more masks or something.
Spaniards such as these where they are having a maskless mass protest calling for Bill Gates to be locked up?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Despierto...y4isIbkFIYbdkI

Is this in the same Spain that has been opening itself up to tourists such as these drunken British people who wear no masks?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


So the answer to your supposedly rhetorical question is yes, more mask-wearing would be a good idea. Absolutely nobody is saying it has a 100% success against infections spreading, but people are saying it reduces the spread.

Or do you propose that people in Spain get rid of masks altogether as a waste of time?

Seriously, could some people who oppose lockdowns and oppose mask wearing just say it out loud, do we just do away with any measures altogether and let the thing take its course?

What are your positions on this casebro and Arcade22?
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Old 23rd July 2020, 06:15 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I wore a gasmask for almost 48 hours straight in a full combat load in Kandahar in July, without sleeping and taking in only water.

Anyone who's bitching about wearing a cloth mask to pick up their Funyuns from the Walmart can cry me a river, then stick their head into that river until the bubbles stop.
Right. It's a little more hot, and it sure is slightly inconvenient, but given the situation it's trivial.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 07:19 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
A cloth mask causes some discomfort, because you re-inhale some of your exhaled breath, which contains enough CO2 to make you feel like you're not getting enough air, but it really doesn't significantly interfere with your ability to take in sufficient oxygen. Maybe for someone with barely adequate lung function to begin with, a mask might make a difference, but of course these would also be people who absolutely do not want to catch covid-19, as it is very likely to kill them. It's important to realize that the uncomfortable feeling from wearing a mask is not really representative of any real impairment of ability to breathe. I tend to pull my mask down as soon as I'm outdoors and well away from other people, but I keep it in place when indoors or close to people. The discomfort can be tolerated. It's a hell of a lot less uncomfortable than a bad case of the disease is likely to be.
You have to distinguish between "feeling" and actually having.

Show some evidence that effective CO2 rises with the cloth mask. You have a trachea full of dead space that's larger than any dead space in the mask and that doesn't inhibit CO2 exchange.

Cloth masks that are not tight fitting masks don't affect anyone's breathing. And if a tight fitting mask is an issue, the person can wear a mask that isn't tight fitting (aka a cloth mask or a procedure mask).

Other than people whining about wearing the masks, they are not harmful. I actually measured my O2 sats with an oximeter (one that is FDA certified, not the commercial ones you can buy online). Find a source that measures CO2 levels with the mask on, or even a significantly high level within the mask as someone wears it.

Otherwise all you have are people believing there is a problem when there isn't.

Now if the person is really that paranoid, then they should also be deathly afraid of the virus and they should stay home.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 07:49 PM   #182
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If you're experiencing discomfort and anxiety wearing a mask (I sure am) wait until you try a ventilator.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 08:05 PM   #183
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I love the people who live in places where it gets cold and complain of masks inhibiting their breathing. Funny how that doesn't apply to wrapping five feet of scarf over the nose and mouth in winter. Maybe somebody who's never left Florida hasn't ever had to cover their nose and mouth (outside of their meth labs, of course) but someone living in Minnesota? Yeah, right.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 08:23 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
If you don’t believe that masks restrict airflow, try running uphill while wearing one.
Prove it is affecting your breathing and isn't just sweaty and annoying. You need a way to objectively measure that, not subjectively.

Maybe loosen the mask.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 23rd July 2020, 08:25 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
To be fair, surgeons wear very lightweight masks that are very easy to breathe through. They're designed to keep the bodily fluids of the patient out of the orifices of the surgeon, and to reduce the potential for drops of saliva or snot from the surgeon to get into an open wound. They're not designed to contain a virus.
No to the highlighted part. For droplets like that you need a face shield.

If you get squirted with blood or something and you have a surgical or procedure mask on you probably have time to rip it off before the blood soaks through.

The mask in surgery is to protect the patient.


Edited to add this history: the masks in OR have always been to protect the patient. No one considered protecting the workers until the 90s when HIV and tuberculosis were recognized as occupational hazards. For about the previous decade it was recognized that when health care workers became infected with bloodborne pathogens, that was an occupationally acquired infection.

But personal protective equipment and safer needle devices came a tad later.

Prior to that eureka moment in healthcare, nurses were given surgical masks for respiratory protection. No one bothered to test them to see if they actually worked. They work for small droplets, but not for airborne pathogens.

I could go on but I'll stop here.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 23rd July 2020 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:48 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Throw in to the mix that the true cause of death is not reported, if you die WITH Covid it is reported as a Covid caused death. Positive swab, hit by a bus- Covid Death! I await some new stats on total deaths for 2020. So I can see just how many excess deaths get caused by Covid. I expect the total deaths to not top 3M, probably 100K + true deaths of the 200k that will be credited to C-19.
For places that have reported monthly excess deaths, they seem to be about 120% to 150% of reported Covid deaths. Just Google "covid excess deaths" for the studies and reports. So there are some false positives and some "would-have-died anyway"s, but it seems clear that the missed cases are far greater.

Also, deaths due to other causes such as accidents and flu will be down for the early months, so excess due to Covid is a bit higher than these numbers show.
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:48 AM   #187
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Population of USA: 328.2 million (in 2019 according to Google)

Deaths from Covid-19: 142,755 (Both confirmed and presumed according to CDC)

Percentage of USA population dead from presumed and confirmed cases: 0.04349634% (According to calculator)

I think we will be fine.

Also, I hate Trump.

Last edited by mike81; 24th July 2020 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:56 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Population of USA: 328.2 million (in 2019 according to Google)

Deaths from Covid-19: 142,755 (Both confirmed and presumed according to CDC)

Percentage of USA population dead from presumed and confirmed cases: 0.04349634% (According to calculator)

I think we will be fine.
No one said the US will perish..

But sufficient deaths and sicknesses can disrupt the economy in a major fashion. Why not try to limit it?
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:02 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
No one said the US will perish..

But sufficient deaths and sicknesses can disrupt the economy in a major fashion. Why not try to limit it?
Mask are to protect others if I have Coronavirus. If I don't have it, why should I have to wear a mask? Don't tell me there is no way for me to know that I don't have it. What if I am tested regularly? What if the person I live with is tested regularly? So if we must wear mask for this, then do we need to for the flu and other viruses? From now on do we need to be forced to wear a mask and stay away from one another? Continue to keep things shut down or operating at reduced capacity? Afterall, there are plenty of viruses that can kill us.

BTW, I agree to take precautions. Like we should have always been doing. I just don't think we need to continue to go to the point that we have.

H1N1 cases reached almost 61 million in the USA in 1 years time.

Last edited by mike81; 24th July 2020 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:12 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Mask are to protect others if I have Coronavirus. If I don't have it, why should I have to wear a mask? Don't tell me there is no way for me to know that I don't have it.
Most cases are asymptomatic. So you don't know. Why don't you want me to tell you that? Because it's inconvenient?

Quote:
What if I am tested regularly?
You're not.

Quote:
So if we must wear mask for this, then do we need to for the flu and other viruses?
Just the dangerous ones.

Why is it such a hassle for you to make a simple gesture that safeguards people around you?

Quote:
From now on do we need to be forced to wear a mask and stay away from one another? Continue to keep things shut down or operating at reduced capacity? Afterall, there are plenty of viruses that can kill us.
You'll get no argument from me here, but COVID-19 is a bit unusual. Let's see if we can beat the damn thing first.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:14 AM   #191
mike81
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post



You're not.


So you are psychic?

You are wrong. Girlfriend, who I live with, is required to be tested regularly. We get tested at a location 5 minutes from home. In fact, I'm almost certain we both had the virus back in January & February. Very sick and tested negative for flu. Highly unusual for me to be as sick as I was. Dr. Fauci says it would be unprecedented to not be immune after catching a virus.

Last edited by mike81; 24th July 2020 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:19 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Mask are to protect others if I have Coronavirus. If I don't have it, why should I have to wear a mask? Don't tell me there is no way for me to know that I don't have it. What if I am tested regularly? What if the person I live with is tested regularly? So if we must wear mask for this, then do we need to for the flu and other viruses? From now on do we need to be forced to wear a mask and stay away from one another? Continue to keep things shut down or operating at reduced capacity? Afterall, there are plenty of viruses that can kill us.

BTW, I agree to take precautions. Like we should have always been doing. I just don't think we need to continue to go to the point that we have.

H1N1 cases reached almost 61 million in the USA in 1 years time.
So if 61 million Americans get infected with Covid, how many will die if the current death rate stays the same?
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:23 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
So you are psychic?

You are wrong. Girlfriend, who I live with, is required to be tested regularly. We get tested at a location 5 minutes from home. In fact, I'm almost certain we both had the virus back in January & February. Very sick and tested negative for flu. Highly unusual for me to be as sick as I was.
How can anyone know that you've been tested?

You ignored the rest of my post: why is it so inconvenient to wear a mask for mutual protection?

Quote:
Dr. Fauci says it would be unprecedented to not be immune after catching a virus.
Happens all the time with the cold, which is sometimes a coronavirus.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:28 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
So if 61 million Americans get infected with Covid, how many will die if the current death rate stays the same?
No way to know right now because it includes presumed (untested cases). There was even someone who died in a motorcycle crash and it was listed as Covid-19. Many similar stories. Real death rate of people who actually are confirmed to have it and die from it is probably around .5%.

To get to 61 million, the cases would have to increase by more than 10 times. Real number of deaths from Covid-19 will more than likely be adjusted down sometime in the future when they remove the unconfirmed cases and people who died of other things, but tested positive for Covid-19.

Your point?

Last edited by mike81; 24th July 2020 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:30 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
How can anyone know that you've been tested?
They don't. Just like they don't know if you or I have been tested for flu or anything else. Your point? Should we do all this BS for other viruses?
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:31 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
They don't. Just like they don't know if you or I have been tested for flu or anything else. Your point? Should we do all this BS for other viruses?
I've already answered that, Mike. Did you not read my answer?

And this is the second time you've ignored my question. Why?
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:32 AM   #197
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So "LOL people are just gonna die anyway" really where we're landing on?
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:34 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
No way to know right now because it includes presumed (untested cases). There was even someone who died in a motorcycle crash and it was listed as Covid-19. Many similar stories. Real death rate of people who actually are confirmed to have it and die from it is probably around .5%.

To get to 61 million, the cases would have to increase by more than 10 times.

Your point?
That you attempt to downplay the severity of the virus, yet you compare it to H1N1 where the death rate was .02%. Your out of your ass guess of .5% is way off the current 3.5% based on current data. You can't use one story as a trend, just so it can fit your narrative, especially when you consider many health experts feel that many more deaths have actually been missed.
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Last edited by Disbelief; 24th July 2020 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:35 AM   #199
mike81
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So "LOL people are just gonna die anyway" really where we're landing on?
Do you not care about the ones who die of flu? I mean if you do, then I guess we should do this BS for the flu too.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:36 AM   #200
Belz...
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Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
That you attempt to downplay the severity of the virus, yet you compare it to H1N1 where the death rate was .02%. Your out of your ass guess of .5% is way off the current 35% based on current data.
Woah, 140k deaths out of 4 million cases is not 35%. It's 3.5%.
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