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Old 28th July 2020, 04:05 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Dude, I just paid off my student loans, and I'm 46. But you know... I took out loans, they weren't grants. And I used those loans to go to school to get a degree that would let me be self-sufficient. So I figured that paying them back was the responsible thing to do, and I did it without complaint.
I mean, I'm paying them off too. I could drag them out into my 40's and pay gobs of interest, or my wife and I can plow all our available extra income into killing a 6 figure debt. That's the choice most people my age have to make, either moving forward into "adulthood" (children, houses) while letting the debt linger forever, or aggressively paying off loans at a rate faster than the interest.

It gets exhausting to see these articles from clueless boomers about why millennials aren't buying houses, or aren't having as many kids, or aren't as voracious consumers, or why they are increasingly unsatisfied with the status quo while ignoring that many are saddled with massive student loans, low paying jobs, and no indications of a better future.

My generation is acting rationally, we're servicing debt that is necessary to have access to good jobs, and it's dragging down the entire system. There should be no mystery why people are not in support of such a scheme.

Moralizing about individual promises to pay back debt is all well and good, but looking beyond the scope of the individual, it's quite clear that this system is failing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ood-one-chart/

Quote:
Few things capture the precariousness of life for today’s young adults like a visualization of their wealth.
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Old 28th July 2020, 11:31 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It gets exhausting to see these articles from clueless boomers about why millennials aren't buying houses...
I'm Gen-X. We are so damned overlooked that we never even got a name. The placeholder used for us in our youth never got updated. Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with both boomers and millennial bitching and moaning about everything. Life's not fair, grow up and deal with it as best you can. It's not as good as what a prior generation had? Welcome to the party, scooter. Kids these days just don't take responsibility? Yeah, you can join the party too, bub.

My entire generation was taught that we don't matter, we're not important. End of story. We grew up having to look after ourselves, and figure it out for ourselves. We didn't get a manual, and none of it was 'fair'. We lost sometimes, and we got called losers, and we didn't get a participation trophy. We also didn't have loving stay-at-home parents to kiss our boo-boos and make us after school snacks and help us with our homework.

<Deep breath> Okay. Sorry to vent that at you, I'm just sick to death of the "boomer vs millennial" whine-off.
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Old 28th July 2020, 11:33 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'm Gen-X. We are so damned overlooked that we never even got a name. The placeholder used for us in our youth never got updated. Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with both boomers and millennial bitching and moaning about everything. Life's not fair, grow up and deal with it as best you can. It's not as good as what a prior generation had? Welcome to the party, scooter. Kids these days just don't take responsibility? Yeah, you can join the party too, bub.

My entire generation was taught that we don't matter, we're not important. End of story. We grew up having to look after ourselves, and figure it out for ourselves. We didn't get a manual, and none of it was 'fair'. We lost sometimes, and we got called losers, and we didn't get a participation trophy. We also didn't have loving stay-at-home parents to kiss our boo-boos and make us after school snacks and help us with our homework.

<Deep breath> Okay. Sorry to vent that at you, I'm just sick to death of the "boomer vs millennial" whine-off.
Rejecting the system and threatening to tear it down is one way of dealing with the problem, but probably not what the establishment has in mind. All the sudden, "stop crying and just do something" doesn't seem like good advice when rocks are getting chucked at plate glass windows.

For what it's worth, I didn't mean to imply that you were included in my "clueless boomers" categorization. I'm mostly referencing the moronic articles that seem to pop up regularly blaming millennials for "killing the XYZ" market. It's the one-two punch of being criticized for not having enough money to support various consumer markets, while simultaneously being mocked for bemoaning our lack of wealth.

https://www.businessinsider.com/mill...-wealth-2020-1
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:25 PM   #44
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I know millennials are screwed financially. I now boomers have blinders on. But if I had to pick an actual name for my generation, rather than the bland placeholder we've been left with, it would likely be "All of you shut the **** up and leave me the hell alone, I don't care about your crap, I've got **** I need to do" generation. It's a bit unwieldy though.
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Old 28th July 2020, 01:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'm Gen-X. We are so damned overlooked that we never even got a name.

Wasn't that the name? There was even the book back in the early 1990s. (I read it with a class of Gen X high-school students in the mid-1990s.)

Quote:
The placeholder used for us in our youth never got updated. Honestly, I'm pretty fed up with both boomers and millennial bitching and moaning about everything. Life's not fair, grow up and deal with it as best you can. It's not as good as what a prior generation had? Welcome to the party, scooter. Kids these days just don't take responsibility? Yeah, you can join the party too, bub.

I always saw it as a big mistake to identify with one's generation. Almost as big as to identify with one's country, race or sex. The different classes of each generation have almost nothing in common apart from a little pop culture, maybe: some music and TV series. And often not even that. Some of the early boomers were hippies, some were rednecks, some were farm workers, some were hedge fund managers.

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My entire generation was taught that we don't matter, we're not important. End of story.

That is not what you were taught. It's what (some of) you experienced, beginning with the punks and their extreme version of 'No future' and 'You ain't got a chance, so use it': the unemployment and the long recession after the oil crisis in the mid-1970s.

Quote:
We grew up having to look after ourselves, and figure it out for ourselves. We didn't get a manual, and none of it was 'fair'.

That is more or less the experience of every generation: They all have to figure it out for themselves. It's even worse if there is a manual because it's always ******* useless.

Quote:
We lost sometimes, and we got called losers, and we didn't get a participation trophy. We also didn't have loving stay-at-home parents to kiss our boo-boos and make us after school snacks and help us with our homework.

Doesn't that sound as if your boomer parents were no longer privileged enough to be able to afford one of them staying at home and taking care of the kids? (And isn't it likely that the 'no longer' is based on old sitcoms about the 1950s rather than on reality?)

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<Deep breath> Okay. Sorry to vent that at you, I'm just sick to death of the "boomer vs millennial" whine-off.

Me too!
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Old 28th July 2020, 04:19 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Wasn't that the name? There was even the book back in the early 1990s. (I read it with a class of Gen X high-school students in the mid-1990s.)
It was a placeholder that never got updated. It was given to the generation of children that came along after the end of the Boomer social gestalt could be identified. Generations are always defined with a backwards look, as the defining elements of a generation have to do with shared experiences that shape their view of the world and their behavioral norms.

"Gen-X" was initially just a marker to distinguish us from the Baby Boomers*. For consideration, the Millennials were called "Gen-Y" until about 10 years ago, and the current children are "Gen-Z". As they begin exhibiting patterns of belief, viewpoint, and outlook, as well as events and social norms that shape their lives, they will get a name. At the moment, they've been flirting with the name "Zoomers", although I'm not sure that will stick.

But Gen-X never got a name. We're just "The generation between the Boomers and the Millennials".

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Me too!




*With respect to the Baby Boomers, they've actually been revised a bit over time. With retrospect and as they've aged, there's been a tendency toward distinguishing the "Leading Boomers" from the "Trailing boomers". A lot of the distinction tends to fall around the Civil Rights Era and the "Hippies".
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Old 28th July 2020, 09:31 PM   #47
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The claim about that generation was that they were adrift with no idea of where to fit in or what to do with their lives or who they were, so X was chosen because it represents the unknown & undefined because it's the most common variable in algebra (same as why Malcolm X chose it).

It's not a lack of a real name. It's a real name chosen for its specific meaning as a descriptor of the generation. (It didn't really fit, beyond the fact that that state of mind is a bit more common in teenagers & pre-teens and that's the age generation X was at the time, but still, it's the description that was being bounced around at the time, so the name was deliberately chosen to reflect the well-defined image.)
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Old 29th July 2020, 06:52 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I mean, I'm paying them off too. I could drag them out into my 40's and pay gobs of interest, or my wife and I can plow all our available extra income into killing a 6 figure debt. That's the choice most people my age have to make, either moving forward into "adulthood" (children, houses) while letting the debt linger forever, or aggressively paying off loans at a rate faster than the interest.

It gets exhausting to see these articles from clueless boomers about why millennials aren't buying houses, or aren't having as many kids, or aren't as voracious consumers, or why they are increasingly unsatisfied with the status quo while ignoring that many are saddled with massive student loans, low paying jobs, and no indications of a better future.

My generation is acting rationally, we're servicing debt that is necessary to have access to good jobs, and it's dragging down the entire system. There should be no mystery why people are not in support of such a scheme.

Moralizing about individual promises to pay back debt is all well and good, but looking beyond the scope of the individual, it's quite clear that this system is failing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ood-one-chart/

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...008428fe92.jpg
That chart does not seem to be all that damning.

The Boomers have had the most time to generate wealth for themselves, and their parents/grandparents did not live as long on average than they are. The curves for subsequent generations will undoubtedly curve up steeply as the Boomers perish, as it did for them when they were in their 30's and 40's.
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Old 29th July 2020, 07:01 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
That chart does not seem to be all that damning.

The Boomers have had the most time to generate wealth for themselves, and their parents/grandparents did not live as long on average than they are. The curves for subsequent generations will undoubtedly curve up steeply as the Boomers perish, as it did for them when they were in their 30's and 40's.
The X axis accounts for Age. Even the oldest Gen Xers haven't caught up to 30 year old Boomers in terms of wealth. The gap between Gen X and millennial for the same age ranges is clear, and there's no reason to believe this trend will change.

I am curious what will happen to all this wealth as the boomers die off. Some will certainly pass down as you say, but I doubt it's going to be anything close to a 1:1 transfer.
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Old 29th July 2020, 07:08 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The X axis accounts for Age. Even the oldest Gen Xers haven't caught up to 30 year old Boomers in terms of wealth. The gap between Gen X and millennial for the same age ranges is clear, and there's no reason to believe this trend will change.

I am curious what will happen to all this wealth as the boomers die off. Some will certainly pass down as you say, but I doubt it's going to be anything close to a 1:1 transfer.
For the Americans, a large amount will be eaten up in medical expenses. Even with Medicare, it costs a lot of money to keep ailing octogenarians in nursing homes.

It doesn't help that too many Boomers regard buying a house as the pinnacle of investments and never bothered to do anything more. My parents relied on my dad's military pension plus Social Security to fund their retirement, which worked out okay for them, but they could have been even better off if they'd simply thought to plug a few thousand into mutual funds over the decades.
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Old 29th July 2020, 07:14 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
For the Americans, a large amount will be eaten up in medical expenses. Even with Medicare, it costs a lot of money to keep ailing octogenarians in nursing homes.

It doesn't help that too many Boomers regard buying a house as the pinnacle of investments and never bothered to do anything more. My parents relied on my dad's military pension plus Social Security to fund their retirement, which worked out okay for them, but they could have been even better off if they'd simply thought to plug a few thousand into mutual funds over the decades.
I was also thinking that. Of course, wealth early in life is more important than an inheritance later. Compounding interest is the real wealth builder, so Gen X or Millennial being broke in their prime working years is a real setback.

I think it's pretty likely that much of this wealth ends up in the hands of large corporations, such as the healthcare industry like you say, not inheritors.

Inheriting 1/3 of a McMansion from the folks in your 40's isn't going to make up for the lost time in your 20's and 30's that could have been used to put money into a retirement fund.
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Old 29th July 2020, 08:39 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
But Gen-X never got a name.
There were a couple of names, but they didn't stick. There was "the MTV generation" and the "latchkey generation".

As you note, though, the "x" moniker actually rather suits a generation known for being overlooked and without a clear definition or purpose.
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Old 29th July 2020, 09:32 AM   #53
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I've mentioned several times that George Carlin's quip back in the late 60s/early 70s culture war that he felt like he was 35 at a time when everybody was either 18 or 60 speaks deeply to how I feel right now.

Of course as noted Gen-X being the forgotten middle child of a generational culture war is the most Gen-X thing possible.
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Old 29th July 2020, 09:35 AM   #54
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*sips Starbucks in Nirvana T-shirt looking sullen*
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Old 29th July 2020, 09:50 AM   #55
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Old 29th July 2020, 09:55 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've mentioned several times that George Carlin's quip back in the late 60s/early 70s culture war that he felt like he was 35 at a time when everybody was either 18 or 60 deeply to how I feel right now.

Of course as noted Gen-X being the forgotten middle child of a generational culture war is the most Gen-X thing possible.
Not that, you know, I care or anything.
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Old 29th July 2020, 10:25 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Not that, you know, I care or anything.
Lisa: "We're the MTV generation. We feel no ups, no downs."
Homer: "What's it like?"
Lisa: *Shrugs*
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Old 29th July 2020, 10:43 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Lisa: "We're the MTV generation. We feel no ups, no downs."
Homer: "What's it like?"
Lisa: *Shrugs*
"*Shrugs*"? That scene is literally where the word "meh" comes from, you Heathen!
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Old 29th July 2020, 10:51 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Lisa: "We're the MTV generation. We feel no ups, no downs."
I quote that to my Boomer mom all the time.
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Old 29th July 2020, 11:08 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
*With respect to the Baby Boomers, they've actually been revised a bit over time. With retrospect and as they've aged, there's been a tendency toward distinguishing the "Leading Boomers" from the "Trailing boomers". A lot of the distinction tends to fall around the Civil Rights Era and the "Hippies".

I guess I would belong to the trailing part of the boomers: too young to be a hippie (except for the hair), and too old to be punk. (I did go to a concert with the Sex Pistols in 1977, though). I googled a little and discovered that Billy Idol's Generation X was named after a book about the Mod subculture, which would have been a part of the early Boomer generation.
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Old 29th July 2020, 11:44 AM   #61
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I think "Gen Z" or whatever comes after Millennials (if people still insist on labeling generations) could turn out to be quite conservative if angry young white men start to feel marginalized in a changing country.

We already see glimpses of that now with white men late 20s to 40s making a lot of noise and taking cues from the so-called Intellectual Dark Web and internet incel culture. For them the establishment is dominated by feminists, race baiters, and race traitors.
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