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Old 28th July 2020, 06:45 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I haven't been out and about much, but I am so going to do this. I think I've got a contact high from this anecdote!
There's always one contrarian. SMH.
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:11 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
No thatís a profile pic, not your avatar. I donít know why we have both.

Eureka! All this time, and I had completely missed that there was a separate avatar entry.
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:18 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Eureka! All this time, and I had completely missed that there was a separate avatar entry.
Great! Now put a mask on.
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:50 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
I love not having to smile at men. The smile women learn to do, not because they're friendly, but because they don't want men to hurt them.

I found myself acting in a way I wouldn't have, had I not been wearing a mask. It was surprising to me. Empowering. The incident involved a man cutting in front of me in a line. I was waiting to pick up food I'd ordered over the phone. There were two people in front of me in the line. I just needed to pay and get the food in my hands. I thought it best to just stand in the line, on the marked squares for social distancing, rather than try and ask about what to do. I'd been in line not a minute when a man came up, and instead of waiting at the square behind me, decided to wait behind the woman who was ahead of me. I was stewing - could he really be cutting!? - but decided to wait until the restaurant employee came out to call the next guest before acting. When that happened, the man was addressed first by the employee, with the man telling the employee he was picking up food. "HE'S AFTER ME." I called out. It was a clear incident of a man thinking he was more important - we had the exact circumstances, but he thought himself more important than me and that he didn't have to wait to ask about his food.

The employee asked my name and called me in for my food. I didn't look at the cutter. I just walked by him. That was pretty huge. If I hadn't been wearing the mask, I would have done some half-assed apologetic smile and said 'excuse me' or whatever female-instinctual thing I normally would have done. But that mask. I had some protection. I just barged ahead. AS I SHOULD HAVE.

When I walked out, I did the same thing, right past him, no eye contact. NO SMILE.

Then when I sat in the parking lot to eat my food, I kept checking to make sure he didn't see me, because while the mask can prevent some regular female habits, it didn't stop me from fearing the man was going to come out and hurt me for having been assertive.


Hey guys, don't think this is unique to this one particular woman.

I was high on that exchange for hours, and talked to my therapist about it later. I didn't smile! I was so forward! Thank f***ing god.

So many wins just walking around with a mask, so many occasions to keep my eyes forward and not offer the smile that men tell me I should give them.
Slight derail, but...is this really a thing with women (dude in NJ USA here)? IME, women do not make eye contact or smile at men unless they are trying to initiate interaction. Typically, I find something else to look at if women are around, so they don't feel intimidated or at least the subject of unwanted attention, cuz I get that they prob get more than they want.

Also, guys cut in line like that? I mean, often enough to be of note? They get quickly kicked to the curb around these here parts if they try. That's some ignorant ****.
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Old 28th July 2020, 09:20 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
I love not having to smile at men. The smile women learn to do, not because they're friendly, but because they don't want men to hurt them.

I found myself acting in a way I wouldn't have, had I not been wearing a mask. It was surprising to me. Empowering. The incident involved a man cutting in front of me in a line. I was waiting to pick up food I'd ordered over the phone. There were two people in front of me in the line. I just needed to pay and get the food in my hands. I thought it best to just stand in the line, on the marked squares for social distancing, rather than try and ask about what to do. I'd been in line not a minute when a man came up, and instead of waiting at the square behind me, decided to wait behind the woman who was ahead of me. I was stewing - could he really be cutting!? - but decided to wait until the restaurant employee came out to call the next guest before acting. When that happened, the man was addressed first by the employee, with the man telling the employee he was picking up food. "HE'S AFTER ME." I called out. It was a clear incident of a man thinking he was more important - we had the exact circumstances, but he thought himself more important than me and that he didn't have to wait to ask about his food.

The employee asked my name and called me in for my food. I didn't look at the cutter. I just walked by him. That was pretty huge. If I hadn't been wearing the mask, I would have done some half-assed apologetic smile and said 'excuse me' or whatever female-instinctual thing I normally would have done. But that mask. I had some protection. I just barged ahead. AS I SHOULD HAVE.

When I walked out, I did the same thing, right past him, no eye contact. NO SMILE.

Then when I sat in the parking lot to eat my food, I kept checking to make sure he didn't see me, because while the mask can prevent some regular female habits, it didn't stop me from fearing the man was going to come out and hurt me for having been assertive.


Hey guys, don't think this is unique to this one particular woman.

I was high on that exchange for hours, and talked to my therapist about it later. I didn't smile! I was so forward! Thank f***ing god.

So many wins just walking around with a mask, so many occasions to keep my eyes forward and not offer the smile that men tell me I should give them.
Is it possible that the cutter just didn't notice you?

The other day I joined a socially distanced queue at what I thought was the end in Aldi. I turned around and saw a Lady with a trolley behind me and immediately said sorry for jumping in and went behind her.
I would hate to think that she had all that paranoid stuff about smiling and stuff in her head.
I would especially hate to think they were hiding in the parking lot, fearful of being punished for being assertive, when none of it was real and it was all in their head.

Last edited by p0lka; 28th July 2020 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 28th July 2020, 09:47 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Great! Now put a mask on.

If I were home, with access to my copies of GIMP and paint.net, I could have done a lot better, but ask and ye shall receive.
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Old 28th July 2020, 11:55 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
There's always one contrarian. SMH.
IDGI?
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Slight derail, but...is this really a thing with women (dude in NJ USA here)? IME, women do not make eye contact or smile at men unless they are trying to initiate interaction. Typically, I find something else to look at if women are around, so they don't feel intimidated or at least the subject of unwanted attention, cuz I get that they prob get more than they want.
Bit of both. Most women avoid eye contact... because it so frequently gets interpreted as interest . On those occasions where eye contact is expected (with the cashier, with someone you're interacting with, etc.) then yeah - we almost always smile. Not because we want to but because it's "expected". Partly because if we're not happy and smiling and always conciliatory, we get treated as if we're complete and utter bitches. And partly because if we're not smiling there's about a 60% chance that some man is going to tell us that we'd be prettier if we smiled.

There's a fairly heavily ingrained and mostly subconscious expectation that women comport themselves in a way that pleases men, regardless of how we actually feel or what kind of a mood we're in. It starts getting pounded into us (all of us regardless of gender) as children - sugar and spice and everything nice versus frogs and snails and puppy dog tails. Girls are expected to be sweet and happy and polite and quiet. Boys are expected to be rambunctious, fractious, little hellions. Those behavioral templates never really go away. And they are incredibly pernicious.
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Is it possible that the cutter just didn't notice you?

The other day I joined a socially distanced queue at what I thought was the end in Aldi. I turned around and saw a Lady with a trolley behind me and immediately said sorry for jumping in and went behind her.
I would hate to think that she had all that paranoid stuff about smiling and stuff in her head.
I would especially hate to think they were hiding in the parking lot, fearful of being punished for being assertive, when none of it was real and it was all in their head.
I'm sure you don't intend it this way... but it's very hard to read this without echoes of "you're overreacting" and "it's not that big a deal, calm down" and "it's all in your head". Those are things that women get told regularly when we are assertive about voicing a complaint about how we're treated, or about things that are important to us.

Hey - maybe it was "all in her head" this time... but I guarantee that it's not "all in her head" all the time. Most women have had enough experience with crap like this for it to be a pretty clear pattern. That men don't notice or recognize this pattern isn't surprising - they're never the ones on the receiving end of it.
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
If I were home, with access to my copies of GIMP and paint.net, I could have done a lot better, but ask and ye shall receive.
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Old 28th July 2020, 04:59 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'm sure you don't intend it this way... but it's very hard to read this without echoes of "you're overreacting" and "it's not that big a deal, calm down" and "it's all in your head". Those are things that women get told regularly when we are assertive about voicing a complaint about how we're treated, or about things that are important to us.

Hey - maybe it was "all in her head" this time... but I guarantee that it's not "all in her head" all the time. Most women have had enough experience with crap like this for it to be a pretty clear pattern. That men don't notice or recognize this pattern isn't surprising - they're never the ones on the receiving end of it.
I do the smiley thing, it's politeness.

If you're doing it because of an imaginary full threat conflict avoid eye contact vietnam hit the bunker and hide cos they might punish you mindset, then you're off your head.

What if it was a woman that was the cutter?

Would all that paranoid stuff have kicked in then?

Would the end result have been any different?

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Old 28th July 2020, 05:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Seems to me like the people who put plastic over their furniture and carpets "to keep them looking nice". Congrats, now they look awful because they have plastic on them. The attempt to prevent a possible thing is itself the real cause of the thing. There's got to be a name for that, probably one long word in German!
Those pieces of plastic are called antimacassars, and they were originally used to protect furniture from Macassar oil, which was a common hair oil in the C19th.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:21 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Those pieces of plastic are called antimacassars, and they were originally used to protect furniture from Macassar oil, which was a common hair oil in the C19th.
No. I was referring to the 1970s/80s trend among the horrible of putting long thick plastic runners on their carpets and big plastic covers on their chairs and sofas. Antimacassars are traditionally lace doilies over the backs of chairs only.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:31 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
No. I was referring to the 1970s/80s trend among the horrible of putting long thick plastic runners on their carpets and big plastic covers on their chairs and sofas. Antimacassars are traditionally lace doilies over the backs of chairs only.
The word is also now used more generally. The Wikipedia page I linked to has a photo of antimacassars being use on rail carriage seats. My grandmother put plastic antimacassars on her chair backs and arms, and called them antimacassars. That's the only reason I know the word.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Bit of both. Most women avoid eye contact... because it so frequently gets interpreted as interest . On those occasions where eye contact is expected (with the cashier, with someone you're interacting with, etc.) then yeah - we almost always smile. Not because we want to but because it's "expected". Partly because if we're not happy and smiling and always conciliatory, we get treated as if we're complete and utter bitches. And partly because if we're not smiling there's about a 60% chance that some man is going to tell us that we'd be prettier if we smiled.
Seriously when are you?
What you are experiencing isn't a women problem, it's a people problem.
I get told to cheer up all the time when i'm out, mostly by women but not always.
By defining it as some sort of unique threatening woman problem that you have to conform to doesn't match reality.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
There's a fairly heavily ingrained and mostly subconscious expectation that women comport themselves in a way that pleases men, regardless of how we actually feel or what kind of a mood we're in. It starts getting pounded into us (all of us regardless of gender) as children - sugar and spice and everything nice versus frogs and snails and puppy dog tails. Girls are expected to be sweet and happy and polite and quiet. Boys are expected to be rambunctious, fractious, little hellions. Those behavioral templates never really go away. And they are incredibly pernicious.
As you seem to be lumping all women together, yeah the highlighted is in women's heads,
stop thinking that way women,
you're doing it to yourselves.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:38 PM   #56
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Oh, this will end well.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:42 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The word is also now used more generally. The Wikipedia page I linked to has a photo of antimacassars being use on rail carriage seats. My grandmother put plastic antimacassars on her chair backs and arms, and called them antimacassars. That's the only reason I know the word.
That's not the usage where I am. The word has long since phased out of general usage, along with the lace doilies. It was not associated with the plastic furniture covers of the 1970s here.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:46 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
That's not the usage where I am. The word has long since phased out of general usage, along with the lace doilies. It was not associated with the plastic furniture covers of the 1970s here.
Interesting. Regional variation, I guess.
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, this will end well.
Sorry,
but this women speaking for all women passive doey eyed hide and avoid eye contact under fear of male punishment last century bollox is tiring.

My women mates would look you in the eye as they 'assertive'ised' themselves into your face with their forehead.
The doey eyed paranoid hide in a parking lot cos of bollox in their head people that are speaking for all women need to sort their stuff out. They aint speaking for all women.
They're doing a disservice to them.

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Old 28th July 2020, 07:22 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, this will end well.
* cue evil, guttural witch laugh *
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:28 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post


Hey guys, don't think this is unique to this one particular woman.



Funny, I thought I already addressed this potential response in the sentence above. Thanks, men, for making sure to tell me I'm wrong about what it's like to be a woman!

For what it's worth, I first began fearing being raped at age 10. When do you, disagreeable men, first fear being raped? When did you get good at carrying your car keys like a weapon? What's your usual method for scoping under your car when you're walking alone in a parking lot late at night? And most relevant: when do you lock your car after getting into it, and how would you describe your manner of doing so?

I'm sorry, hah, tell me again what it's like to be a woman? Please, I'm waiting. Dig your hole.
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:30 PM   #62
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Quick! Somebody mansplain it to her! Bonus points if you work the word "hysterical" into there, it's got a loaded significance and historical baggage!
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:32 PM   #63
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To address the poster on if the cutter could have missed seeing me:

That man cut. It was clear there was a line. The indicators on the floor marking where to stand literally pointed to and laid out exactly where he should have stood, so even a complete moron would know where to stand even if they were unaware of this little thing we're doing with social distancing. But, classic white male privilege - why should he wait in the line when he "just has a question?"

Shall we continue?
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Quick! Somebody mansplain it to her! Bonus points if you work the word "hysterical" into there, it's got a loaded significance and historical baggage!
I prefer the definition which led to the vibrator, just to be clear.
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:37 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
I prefer the definition which led to the vibrator, just to be clear.
I've read that recent study of that particular history leans toward it actually being more of an urban myth.
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:46 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I've read that recent study of that particular history leans toward it actually being more of an urban myth.
It always did have a most peculiar origin story, didn't it?
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Old 28th July 2020, 08:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Sorry,
but this women speaking for all women passive doey eyed hide and avoid eye contact under fear of male punishment last century bollox is tiring.

My women mates would look you in the eye as they 'assertive'ised' themselves into your face with their forehead.
The doey eyed paranoid hide in a parking lot cos of bollox in their head people that are speaking for all women need to sort their stuff out. They aint speaking for all women.
They're doing a disservice to them.

My daughters (and their mum), always take minimum precautions when out and about - look in the back seat of the car before they unlock the door to get in the driver's seat; always drive with the car doors locked; never walk alone at night. I encourage them to continue to do this.
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Old 28th July 2020, 11:26 PM   #68
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I seem to not have the skills. My Avatar was supposed to also possess the Fu Manchu mustache and beard of Evil Spock, but it never seemed to load.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:22 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post


Funny, I thought I already addressed this potential response in the sentence above. Thanks, men, for making sure to tell me I'm wrong about what it's like to be a woman!
I might have come on a bit strong, my issue is you speaking for all women when your personal anecdotes seem like a paranoid war report fantasy.

I asked women family members about your post, I don't think it's representative of all women.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
For what it's worth, I first began fearing being raped at age 10. When do you, disagreeable men, first fear being raped?
For what it's worth, I went to crown court around 2003 as a main witness in a gay pedo ring that happened in the 80's, 1 guy got 12 years the others were between 5 and 2 years. I've posted about it here before.
Yet I still don't look at all men as a potential warzone where if you assert yourself to a man you have to go hide in the parking lot after.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
When did you get good at carrying your car keys like a weapon? What's your usual method for scoping under your car when you're walking alone in a parking lot late at night? And most relevant: when do you lock your car after getting into it, and how would you describe your manner of doing so?

I'm sorry, hah, tell me again what it's like to be a woman? Please, I'm waiting. Dig your hole.
I don't think anyone in this thread has told you what it's like to be a woman, my issue is you speaking for all women when you're treating a visit to a shop where there's a queue jumper like it's the final scene in the good, the bad and the ugly..

That doesn't seem to be a woman thing, it's a you thing.

Seriously I don't think all women feel exactly the same way you feel. You have more **** going on.

EDIT:
Also, I doubt you would find any man that has car keys that hasn't practiced a million ways to to ninja the **** out of them.
So we are all doing it, male female alike.

Last edited by p0lka; 29th July 2020 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:31 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, this will end well.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:35 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
a
I might have come on a bit strong, my issue is you speaking for all women when your personal anecdotes seem like a paranoid war report fantasy.

I asked women family members about your post, I don't think it's representative of all women.


For what it's worth, I went to crown court around 2003 as a main witness in a gay pedo ring that happened in the 80's, 1 guy got 12 years the others were between 5 and 2 years. I've posted about it here before.
Yet I still don't look at all men as a potential warzone where if you assert yourself to a man you have to go hide in the parking lot after.



I don't think anyone in this thread has told you what it's like to be a woman, my issue is you speaking for all women when you're treating a visit to a shop where there's a queue jumper like it's the final scene in the good, the bad and the ugly..

That doesn't seem to be a woman thing, it's a you thing.

Seriously I don't think all women feel exactly the same way you feel. You have more **** going on.

EDIT:
Also, I doubt you would find any man that has car keys that hasn't practiced a million ways to to ninja the **** out of them.
So we are all doing, it male female alike.

Says you, a man. Seriously. I can't roll my eyes hard enough. Please.


When a prime rib is in front of the wolves, they pounce. You don't know what it's like to be an attractive woman in the world, so just stop while you're ahead. Or don't! Keep at it! You're not going to change my mind. I have just a thousand or so interactions with men which justify my experience. I don't have to line by line detail them to you. But, I will continue to think it's hilarious how I gave one example of male privilege and the experience of being a woman in the world, and you decided to tell me I was overreacting.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:37 PM   #72
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I WILL CONTINUE TO LAUGH.


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Old 29th July 2020, 01:39 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Yet I still don't look at all men as a potential warzone where if you assert yourself to a man you have to go hide in the parking lot after.
Not this again.

Yes men get sexually assaulted as well, but men don't tend to have strangers breathing down their necks literally or figuratively every time they're out alone.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:41 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post


Funny, I thought I already addressed this potential response in the sentence above. Thanks, men, for making sure to tell me I'm wrong about what it's like to be a woman!

For what it's worth, I first began fearing being raped at age 10. When do you, disagreeable men, first fear being raped? When did you get good at carrying your car keys like a weapon? What's your usual method for scoping under your car when you're walking alone in a parking lot late at night? And most relevant: when do you lock your car after getting into it, and how would you describe your manner of doing so?

I'm sorry, hah, tell me again what it's like to be a woman? Please, I'm waiting. Dig your hole.
The only one that doesn't apply to me is the fear of being raped.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:42 PM   #75
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Just wanted to add, by the way: fear of men doesn't ever end! It doesn't end when a woman "stops being attractive" or gets old! I'm reminded of this every year when I read about yet another young man raping a geriatric woman!
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:47 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Says you, a man. Seriously. I can't roll my eyes hard enough. Please.


When a prime rib is in front of the wolves, they pounce. You don't know what it's like to be an attractive woman in the world, so just stop while you're ahead. Or don't! Keep at it! You're not going to change my mind. I have just a thousand or so interactions with men which justify my experience. I don't have to line by line detail them to you. But, I will continue to think it's hilarious how I gave one example of male privilege and the experience of being a woman in the world, and you decided to tell me I was overreacting.
I'm saying that your experiences are yours, you as an individual and if you feel that way then I wish people could help you to sort it.
Don't speak for all women though.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Says you, a man. Seriously. I can't roll my eyes hard enough. Please.
Yeah label me as man then you don't have to address anything, cos of your preconceptions.
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:54 PM   #77
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I'd like to say I'm laughing without fear, being behind a mask, being behind an internet profile. But let's not forget Gamergate!


Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I'm saying that your experiences are yours, you as an individual and if you feel that way then I wish people could help you to sort it.
Don't speak for all women though.


Yeah label me as man then you don't have to address anything, cos of your preconceptions.
Again, I specifically added about how my experience wasn't unique to me to address the response some men have when hearing about what it's like to be a woman.


And yes, I will continue to "label" you "as a man" because you are being absolutely ridiculous, a joke. A stereotype of a man, the 'not all men' man, the ignorant man, the man without empathy. There's plenty of men here who aren't like that. But you are! So, hah!
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Old 29th July 2020, 01:59 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Not this again.

Yes men get sexually assaulted as well, but men don't tend to have strangers breathing down their necks literally or figuratively every time they're out alone.
According to what's being said in this thread, if you can imagine it then it's real.

If the cutter was a woman, would anything have been different other than the internal state of the parking lot hider?
I suspect they wouldn't be doing that paranoid stuff if it was a woman.
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Old 29th July 2020, 02:01 PM   #79
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Actually, p0lka, I don't have a read on you, I don't know where you stand on other things. Maybe it's unfair to use a large 'man' brush on you, maybe we've encountered one another elsewhere on the Forum and have been friendly with one another. But, that's not what's happening here.

Besides, the response a friend gives when their friend tells them about an experience they had is to stop, listen, acknowledge, and to try and understand. That's not what you did. You defended All Men and implied there was something wrong with me and/or my perception of what transpired. I can't say that's very friendly. Honestly, it puts me on the defensive. And therefore, I will react with laughter. Just in case anyone wondered why I was laughing in your face.
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Old 29th July 2020, 02:02 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
paranoid
Hah!
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