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Old 30th July 2020, 12:48 PM   #161
MoeFaux
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
One of the YouTube channels I used to watch a while back was by a Girl Gamer who played games like Rainbow 6 and Counter Strike. She had a heap of compilations of other players reacting to her on voice, so yeah I can guess.

ETA2: Should have added NSFW!!

ETA: Found her channel
Before I gave up Live, I did end up using my voice. I found it to be WILDLY satisfying to win/beat the guys and *then* come on the mic, revealing I was a woman. Again, due to sexism - being "beaten by a girl!" is the worst thing ever for some guys - but it felt great to take that idea and use it against them.

With the new XBox coming out and a new Halo, I am so tempted to indulge. And yes, to subscribe to Live. Already fantasized getting great at the new game, playing hours in Live for the cred, and then, surprise, I'm a lady! It doesn't seem so intimidating now to hear the terrible things they'll say. Most of them are all very young, something about that makes it not as hurtful. I feel more secure in my power these days; some teenager telling me I'm a stupid wh0re doesn't have the intended effect now - it just makes me laugh, and it feels rather precious, cute even. They're just pointing out the power of women when they try to tear them down.

I watched the video you linked to. It's funny, how the first thirty seconds made me react - I tensed up, and immediately started stress sweating. But I kept watching. Because it just got to be hilarious. I have a lot more tools now to bat away those kind of attacks than I did when I was younger. I stand up for myself in a way I didn't before. It's so easy to fling swears aggressively now. Hey, it would be neat if that weren't the way a woman had to be in order to participate in live gaming, but, I've been honing my real-life game skills the past decade and I am pretty damned good at my defense now.

I laughed out loud at "Go back to the ******* SIMS, you ****." I'm glad she's out there, gaming and enjoying playing.

Edited by Agatha:  Edited rule 10 breaches. In the public sections, of which SI&CE is one, please type all swears out in full and correctly spelled, and allow the autocensor to catch forbidden words.
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Old 30th July 2020, 12:50 PM   #162
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In an unrelated note, related to the thread OP:

When you're wearing a mask, it soaks up whatever stray tears fall from your eyes.
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:12 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
This was the content of the post that you replied to - you then attempted to divert it to queue jumpers - something that I did not post about.
My post was regarding daily harassment that women put up with.
Originally Posted by EHocking;
...Most of us men simply don’t have the experience of being constantly harassed by strangers when out in public. If we were exposed to the same harassment, perhaps we might be able to change our dismissive attitude to “just” hand gestures.

I once sat by my wife and two nieces relating their experiences. Probably started by me talking about something I’d seen while commuting on public transport.

It was not the severity of the harassment that these three women talked about (40, 30, 20 yrs) that horrified me, and some stories did relate to actual physical assault, what horrified me the most was the frequency of the harassment they had to deal with. They practically run a daily gauntlet of harassment.

We (men) can afford to be dismissive of “just” a bit of a creep following them home, or “just” a leer, or “just” a hand gesture, or “just” an up skirt photo, “just” a hand on your arse, “just” brushing up against you on a crowded train - because it does not happen to us on practically a daily basis.

This is not an exaggeration for effect.

That sideways glance you give that cute young girl walking along the street?
Imagine experiencing that every time you go outside to walk to work, or go shopping or go out with your friends.
This is something that (most) men just don’t have to endure.

I thought I was pretty aware (I refuse to use “woke”), but I had my eyelids not just opened, but ripped apart after hearing my wife and nieces relating the unease and fear that they are subjected to on nearly a daily basis.

Any men here, speak to any girl or woman in your life about this - and I mean keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself and listen to them.
You will be horrified and hopefully you will reassess (at least) how you behave in public and hopefully your reaction and assessment of stories like that in the OP.
Yes sorry, I replied to what you had typed and just ignored the quote that was labeled anecdote.
I have read it now.
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:21 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
This anecdote makes you sound like the kind of person that other people really like to open up to about their personal struggles. I bet many people seek out your counsel on personal matters all the time. And when you ask about their struggles, I see no reason why they wouldn't be open and frank with you about what happens to them and how it makes them feel. You probably really like talking to other people about their feelings, right? Mostly in a validating and a supportive way, but occasionally offering them tips on how to view the world from another perspective and maybe even change the way they feel about the things happening to them. If they are smart enough to listen, that is. Some people just don't want help, though. They just want to cry all day about how hurt they feel and never want to do anything about it. Screw them. We don't need them around.
Well, when my mum and dad informed me about a particular type of blood cancer my dad had, I immediately started talking about fertilizers he used years ago on a golf course and maybe that caused it.

Is that what you mean?
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:26 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Ah, yes, the old refrain, "Not All Men!"

Not all men. But you! You like throwing negative words at a lady online. Clearly, evidence of a real stand-up, good fellow.
To be fair, you do split people into man and woman and that's the base you are working from.
What if the cutter was a woman?
Talk through your thought processes then, like you did in the original post.
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:30 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
This anecdote makes you sound like the kind of person that other people really like to open up to about their personal struggles. I bet many people seek out your counsel on personal matters all the time. And when you ask about their struggles, I see no reason why they wouldn't be open and frank with you about what happens to them and how it makes them feel. You probably really like talking to other people about their feelings, right? Mostly in a validating and a supportive way, but occasionally offering them tips on how to view the world from another perspective and maybe even change the way they feel about the things happening to them. If they are smart enough to listen, that is. Some people just don't want help, though. They just want to cry all day about how hurt they feel and never want to do anything about it. Screw them. We don't need them around.
Does someone need rheir memory Jogged?
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:30 PM   #167
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Herman Cain has had an unintended result of not wearing one. Just sayin'.
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:39 PM   #168
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At that point, I'd be far more interested about my father's treatment options, chances of survival, and whether or not he was in pain, than playing the blame game about what could have been and can't be changed now. Priorities, man! Is your father not more important to you as a person than getting to be right about the past?
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Old 30th July 2020, 02:03 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Does someone need rheir memory Jogged?
It's like a failed barman barnum thingy.

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Old 30th July 2020, 02:04 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Well, when my mum and dad informed me about a particular type of blood cancer my dad had, I immediately started talking about fertilizers he used years ago on a golf course and maybe that caused it.

Is that what you mean?
Yes, I'm sure that was just what he needed to cure his cancer and alleviate all the fears he had of dying from it and leaving his wife behind. Well done!
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Old 30th July 2020, 02:06 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Does someone need rheir memory Jogged?
Come on! Joe isn't even posting in this thread.
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Old 30th July 2020, 02:21 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yes, I'm sure that was just what he needed to cure his cancer and alleviate all the fears he had of dying from it and leaving his wife behind. Well done!
Yeah I naturally go to 'how do we fix this'.

Did the same with the puppy vet thing in a previous post.
I think I need to pay more attention to emotions.

I've got this in a text doc to remind me
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Besides, the response a friend gives when their friend tells them about an experience they had is to stop, listen, acknowledge, and to try and understand. That's not what you did.
cheers brs.

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Old 30th July 2020, 03:38 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Yeah I naturally go to 'how do we fix this'.
Did the fertilizer help to fix his cancer? If so, maybe that is something that deserves followup in another thread.

Quote:
Did the same with the puppy vet thing in a previous post.
I think I need to pay more attention to emotions.
Now that we've gotten this far, can you understand why people may not be open and frank about their emotions with a consummate "problem solver"?

Further, can you understand why people like me may feel bad for people who have had to endure conversations about their emotions with a "problem solver" and understand if they aren't 100% frank with the "problem solver"?

Also, I used to wonder who would ever need to read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Thanks for helping me with that struggle.
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Old 30th July 2020, 03:49 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Yeah I naturally go to 'how do we fix this'.
How does the blame game fix this? Do you respond to a stillbirth by asking about the specific sex act the parents used to start the baby?

The cause of the cancer is only relevant in legal cases where you're hoping to get some money from the chemical manufacturer. Knowing which factor started a cancer is worse than useless in the physical reality of the cancer existing. It's there. The cancer won't magically disappear by saying its truename. This version calling itself "how do we fix this" is missing the point by a wide margin and thinking it's a bullseye.

Fixing your father's blood cancer means the course of treatment. Now, in the present day, not years ago, unless your way of 'fixing' your father's cancer is go back in time to prevent the use of those chemicals assumed to be to blame and then come back to see whether or not that fixed it. 'Fixing' someone telling you about experiences they've had by telling them that they're imagining things and to get over it only 'fixes' the problem that is someone telling you their problems. Good way to have it never happen again.

It's not possible to come up with an actual solution if the problem itself isn't addressed or even listened to.
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:17 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Did the fertilizer help to fix his cancer? If so, maybe that is something that deserves followup in another thread.



Now that we've gotten this far, can you understand why people may not be open and frank about their emotions with a consummate "problem solver"?

Further, can you understand why people like me may feel bad for people who have had to endure conversations about their emotions with a "problem solver" and understand if they aren't 100% frank with the "problem solver"?

Also, I used to wonder who would ever need to read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Thanks for helping me with that struggle.
woa, I said my natural reaction to emotional situations was to go into 'lets fix it' mode rather than pat on the back need a cuddle mode.

You've turned that into a label thing, the enemy are those pesky 'problem solvers'.
We are all people. stop being so divisive.
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:35 PM   #176
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Not exactly, the 'enemy' would be 'problem solvers' who don't listen to problems and start spouting solutions that don't have anything to do with the problem and waste the time of the person who really might want a solution, but are trapped listening to a 'problem solver' instead.
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:53 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You want some actual statistics? Okay.

Measuring domestic violence and sexual assault against women

Please note this source. It is the website of the Australian Parliamentary Library. It was last updated in 2006, but there is no reason to believe that the statistics it reports have suddenly become inaccurate in the last 15 years. Here's an extract:

There are more verified statistics at the link.
Thank you for confirming most women don't experience sexual assault on an "almost daily basis".
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:55 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Thank you for confirming most women don't experience sexual assault on an "almost daily basis".
Fear of sexual assault.

Harassment compounds that fear.
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:58 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I think men sometimes get mad when we have these discussions because they feel attacked. I think we women sometimes aren't careful to say that we have a problem with this behavior, not with men in general.

It really does happen a lot, I promise you, but it's not because men are bad. It's just because some guys are jerks (like some women are jerks), and when you're out and about, you're running into all sorts of people. So some jerks will appear.

So if a woman has a long commute on public transportation in a busy city (like I did up until the pandemic), they can easily run into three or four of these louts before their workday has even started. It's just a matter of numbers. And that's what I have a problem with. Not men. It's not men-as-monolith's fault that some guys are vulgar or rude, just like it's not women-as-monolith's fault that some women are snakes.


EDIT: If that's not why you're angry, then I'm afraid i don't get it. Why would so many women just continuously lie about these things happening? What would be the point?
It is why I'm angry, yes. The particular person whose comment I have a problem with is most definitely lumping all men into the sexual predator category.

Do women suffer unwanted attention? Yes. Do women suffer sexual assault? Yes. This does not make the majority of men sexual predators, and it doesn't mean because a man smiles at a women he is contemplating sexual assault.

As shown by the stats linked, far too many women suffer from unwanted attention and abuse. This is a serious concern. It needs addressing. What it doesn't need is hyperbole.
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Old 30th July 2020, 04:59 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Fear of sexual assault.

Harassment compounds that fear.
That's goalposts being moved. Read back in the thread. Other posters were claiming most women suffer sexual assault on an almost daily basis.
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Old 30th July 2020, 05:02 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Translation: I've never had a discussion about this subject with any of the women/girls in my life.
And it's garbage like this that pisses me off. It is utter nonsense.
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Old 30th July 2020, 05:06 PM   #182
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Keep digging, RolandRat. You're almost deep enough.
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Old 30th July 2020, 05:53 PM   #183
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Quick! Someone bring up prison rape! Did we cover false rape accusations? Michael Crichton's Disclosure! Womyn be shopping! Womyn be shopping!!!!!!

I'm glad we can find occasion for fun in the midst of a global pandemic! And that, for some reason, that fun comes from sexism. What a weird turn that was! Womyn be shopping!!! With masks on, socially distanced.
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:39 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Keep digging, RolandRat. You're almost deep enough.
Yeah whatever. You made ridiculous claims and cannot support them. Keep digging indeed.
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:41 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Quick! Someone bring up prison rape! Did we cover false rape accusations? Michael Crichton's Disclosure! Womyn be shopping! Womyn be shopping!!!!!!

I'm glad we can find occasion for fun in the midst of a global pandemic! And that, for some reason, that fun comes from sexism. What a weird turn that was! Womyn be shopping!!! With masks on, socially distanced.
I'm not actually sure what you mean by this comment. I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to explain.
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:44 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
I'm not actually sure what you mean by this comment. I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to explain.
Oh, but I'm not kind.
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Old 30th July 2020, 06:47 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Oh, but I'm not kind.
You don't want to explain the comment? Any particular reason why not?
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Old 30th July 2020, 07:01 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
That's goalposts being moved. Read back in the thread. Other posters were claiming most women suffer sexual assault on an almost daily basis.
Yeah, speaking of shifting the goalposts, no-one said that most women suffer sexual assault on an almost daily basis, they have stated that most women face sexual harassment on almost a daily basis. Learn the difference.
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Old 30th July 2020, 08:49 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, speaking of shifting the goalposts, no-one said that most women suffer sexual assault on an almost daily basis, they have stated that most women face sexual harassment on almost a daily basis. Learn the difference.
And since sexual harassment is without doubt far more common than sexual assault, when 1 in 5 women have suffered sexual violence, what might be the rate of women suffering sexual harassment?

1 in 5 women, by the way. That's a lot. And 1 in 3 women suffered physical violence. I'm going to bet that RolandRat personally knows at least 5 women.
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Old 30th July 2020, 09:16 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
To be fair, you do split people into man and woman and that's the base you are working from.
What if the cutter was a woman?
Talk through your thought processes then, like you did in the original post.
Hi p0lka,

Well, I wouldn't have been afraid of them in any way. Truthfully, my perception of them would be "Stupid [swear word]" instead of "entitled jerk." Mask, or no mask, I might have glared at them. I might have said, "What the [swear]" to them.

I am bold with women. I guess that is the perception of safety with women - that even if words are said, I'm not looking over my shoulder while eating my burrito, worried some lady is going to come up on me and harm me, and that lady probably isn't worried about me either. I think women are more likely to think, "Dumb [curse], whatever!" and to stew internally rather than act out on it against someone else. Does that make sense?

With regard to my initial post, I found that wearing a mask gave me a feeling of protection, that I didn't feel as vulnerable. I felt stronger in my veiled anonymity. So there's the rub: with the mask on, I treated a disagreeable man the way I'd treat a woman. But then once in my car, I considered how I was vulnerable again. If he didn't like me not deferring to him, or not looking at him or saying 'excuse me' as I walked by, I was in a near-empty parking lot, out of sight of the street, alone, distracted, eating a burrito and watching something on my phone. I *felt* vulnerable to him specifically. Once I was sure the guy must have received his order and been long gone, I relaxed and just kept my eyes on my mirrors and windows, like I always do. I wasn't cowering in my car, afraid of "all men." I was just afraid of that 1 man, because he was the one I interacted with who could have reason to think he needed to teach me a lesson.


Just an aside. My friends have always been male, in high school and all through adulthood. I love men, and I know some great guys.



I just am a lady, and a lady must be on guard for not-so-great guys.
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Old 30th July 2020, 09:35 PM   #191
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
I just am a lady, and a lady must be on guard for not-so-great guys.
And this is something that most people don't think about. Sure 95% of guys might be great guys and treat women with respect, but that means that 1 in 20 doesn't. When you consider that most women are still in highly female orientated employments, a lot of which are customer service type jobs. Consider how many men they see throughout the day in those jobs, and travelling to work on public transport, or walking, etc. Plus doing things in public during their own time. Encountering 20+ men is not unusual, so the odds are that women will end up in the presence of a jerk at some point in their day, and those jerks don't have signs telling the world what they are. As a result, women are going to treat all men as potential jerks until they have proven themselves otherwise, because in general, at least once a day they are proven right.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:07 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
With regard to my initial post, I found that wearing a mask gave me a feeling of protection, that I didn't feel as vulnerable. I felt stronger in my veiled anonymity. So there's the rub: with the mask on, I treated a disagreeable man the way I'd treat a woman.
This was why the mention of the therapist intrigued me. I wondered if it would be taken as a therapeutic opportunity, such as to try to transpose your newly discovered masked attitude into your unmasked life, or to re-evaluate the apparent inconsistency(s?) in your risk assessment process.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Just an aside. My friends have always been male, in high school and all through adulthood. I love men, and I know some great guys.



I just am a lady, and a lady must be on guard for not-so-great guys.
The language you have used here often does not look that way.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
I love not having to smile at men. The smile women learn to do, not because they're friendly, but because they don't want men to hurt them.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
fearing the man was going to come out and hurt me for having been assertive.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
the smile that men tell me I should give them.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Funny, I thought I already addressed this potential response in the sentence above. Thanks, men, for... {doing something nobody had done anyway, not even just some particular man or a few men}
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
classic white male privilege - why should he wait in the line when he "just has a question?"
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Says you, a man. Seriously. I can't roll my eyes hard enough. Please.


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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Just wanted to add, by the way: fear of men doesn't ever end!
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
And yes, I will continue to "label" you "as a man" because you are being absolutely ridiculous, a joke.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Actually, p0lka, I don't have a read on you, I don't know where you stand on other things. Maybe it's unfair to use a large 'man' brush on you
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
...laughing at men's poor responses.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
...how great it is to not have to smile at men...
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
it is a win when a woman can act like a man in a man's world.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
...trouble from men.
If you don't mean to make accusations against all men, then some reconsideration of your communication would be in order, because, as it stands so far, you're making accusations against all men, whether you feel/intend it that way or not.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:22 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Sure 95% of guys might be great guys and treat women with respect, but that means that 1 in 20 doesn't.
And what's even more bizarre about the 5% than just the behavior itself is that most of them must be aware of it in some way, because they manage to avoid doing it in the presence of the other 95%, thus making the existence of the 5% practically completely invisible from the other 95%'s point of view.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
...customer service type jobs. Consider how many men they see throughout the day in those jobs, and travelling to work on public transport, or walking, etc. Plus doing things in public during their own time. Encountering 20+ men is not unusual...
Customer service jobs and public transportation are easy elements to forget for people who don't have/use them. It wouldn't surprise me if those multiply the rate several times over, making the claims of how common this is in one setting appear practically impossible to people who live in another setting.

Last edited by Delvo; 30th July 2020 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:35 PM   #194
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
And this is something that most people don't think about.
...that most men don't think about.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:54 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
And what's even more bizarre about the 5% than just the behavior itself is that most of them must be aware of it in some way, because they manage to avoid doing it in the presence of the other 95%, thus making the existence of the 5% practically completely invisible from the other 95%'s point of view.
I wouldn't say that it's always invisible. Often it is simply written off as "Lads being Lads" or "Locker Room Talk." In groups, especially younger guys, such behaviours can even be encouraged to the point that some guys that wouldn't do it if alone, do it because the group pressure eggs them on, or because they want to look cool.

In the worse case scenarios then it really is no different to any other predator, they act in certain ways when others are around, and then allow the predatory nature to surface when they know that only their victims are going to be aware of their actions.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:55 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
...that most men don't think about.
I was trying not to be too blunt.
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Old 31st July 2020, 12:43 AM   #197
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Can we return to the topic of the thread. thanks. I was getting tired of this anti-men circlejerk.
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Old 31st July 2020, 12:50 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Can we return to the topic of the thread. thanks. I was getting tired of this anti-men circlejerk.
Thanks for the perfect example of an attitude that allows the Jerks to keep on getting away with their actions.
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Old 31st July 2020, 04:09 AM   #199
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Wearing the mask coupled with a pair of sunglasses pretty much eliminates the need for facial gesturing. I've found it enjoyable to just be a blank face while running errands like grocery shopping.
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Old 31st July 2020, 04:23 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Wearing the mask coupled with a pair of sunglasses pretty much eliminates the need for facial gesturing. I've found it enjoyable to just be a blank face while running errands like grocery shopping.
Baseball cap. You need a baseball cap. (Obviously not a red one. Everyone knows that a red cap combined with any mask just attracts viruses like a bees to flowers. That's why you never see them worn together.)

It's strange that wearing that getup to a store six months ago would probably have generated a call to the police.
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