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Tags language , racial issues , semantics

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Old 26th July 2020, 12:18 PM   #41
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Old 26th July 2020, 12:38 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
People might be surprised to learn that the concept of 'white' as a race is a modern one. Whilst to the British eye...

...This proves race is all in the mind. It is whatever you want it to be.
To the racists and "race realists", Africa is all "black people" but they have such a hard time accepting that Armenians and Albanians are white too, if we are going to use these terms at all.

I do think this exclusivity of white is something that originated from just the last century or two. Long winded hairsplitting for your own color and hasty generalization for the others.
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Old 26th July 2020, 12:51 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
We also know this is the case in various Latin countries, where to have more “Spanish” features conferred higher status.
Major problem here in Guatemala. The darker Maya are often refered to as "little brown cockroaches" while the light-skinned 'Ladinos' enjoy 1st class citizen status.
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Old 26th July 2020, 01:19 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Right. Because you're taking it literally. Which is an approach to figures of speech that doesn't make sense to me.

Are there other figures of speech that don't make sense to you?
Yes. Many. I avoid a lot of them.
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Old 27th July 2020, 12:04 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Is the sky blue? Is the sea blue? Is red hair red? Is orange juice orange?
There is a mural in the Corpus Christi airport baggage claim area depicting the local wildlife and beaches. Even in this idealized mural of the local star attraction, the Gulf Coast, the sea is not depicted as blue. A greenish brown, if memory serves me. I love that sort of honesty.
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Old 27th July 2020, 03:12 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Even as a little kid it was obvious to me Indians didn't have red skin. Asians never looked "yellow" and only extreme outliers were "black" or "white." It seemed to me most people were either beige or dark brown.

In reading books on China I've read that Englishmen were considered to have "red" faces which is somewhat true depending on individual coloring.

I don't really know if there's enough here to discuss, but has anyone else thought the same thing?
I definitely have had the same thought. Unless you're showing me really dramatically stereotypical examples, everyone is some shade of brown to me. And I really suck at determining nationality. If someone has epicanthic folds, I'll assume they're at least partly asian of some sort... but Japanese versus Sinagaporean versus Korean? I have no idea. I can't tell a South American from a Native American from a Creole. Sure, show me a person from Sudan and I can see they're black. But Trevor Noah? He is ambiguity brown to me (and handsome to boot). Halle Berry? I only know she's black because I've even told she's black. She's... nicely tanned and very pretty. As far as the "red" or "yellow" goes, it's never made any sense to me.
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Old 27th July 2020, 06:27 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
There is a mural in the Corpus Christi airport baggage claim area depicting the local wildlife and beaches. Even in this idealized mural of the local star attraction, the Gulf Coast, the sea is not depicted as blue. A greenish brown, if memory serves me. I love that sort of honesty.

The color of the sea in Corpus Christi is rather specific to Corpus Christi.
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Old 27th July 2020, 06:53 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Yes. Many. I avoid a lot of them.
So what's your point? Is your incomprehension of common human communication techniques something the rest of us need to know about for some reason?

"Oh, Minoosh doesn't like many figures of speech; I'll file that along with all the idiosyncratic pronouns that are so popular these days." Is that what you're going for?

I ask because you posted this under Social Issues. If it were under Forum Community, I'd let it pass. What's the social issue you're trying to discuss here? How everyone else is okay with figures of speech but they give you personally the willies?
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Old 28th July 2020, 01:34 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Even as a little kid it was obvious to me Indians didn't have red skin. Asians never looked "yellow" and only extreme outliers were "black" or "white." It seemed to me most people were either beige or dark brown.
When I grew up, every box of crayons had one that we referred to as hudfarvet (skin color). It was a kind of beige, but it was always much darker than the skin of any of us - particularly in the winter. When we used in on the backs of our hands, the difference was obvious. In the summer, the areas of skin exposed to the sun might get close to the 'skin-colored' crayons.
In spite of this, skin color was the one that we always used up the fastest because it served the purpose of distinguishing drawings of people from the background of the white paper. If we didn't have any, we might switch to pink.
Polar bears are dark in comparison to some of us. Snow is a little whiter.
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Old 30th July 2020, 12:46 PM   #50
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I read, once, somewhere, that Humans have 7 genes for skin color. Absence of all of them leave an Albino.

I wonder if the genes are all additive in the same color? 7 levels of melanin? Or are there different kinds of pigments, the presence of all 7 = "African Black", only the palest genetic tone is "Glow in the dark European". A different pale one gives Asian Yellow, different combinations of the middle of the palette Mexican Brown, Balkan Olive,......
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Old 30th July 2020, 01:24 PM   #51
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It's more alleles, there's six alleles with dominant and recessive. Melanin is dominant, so the more dominant alleles you have, the darker your skin. The more recessive, the paler skin. Because they are alleles, and equal, that's how the middling-brown UK couple had twins with one twin very pale, and one very dark. The parents had different mixes of dominant and recessive, so one twin could get all the recessives and the other all the dominants. Albinism is something else.
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Old 30th July 2020, 10:11 PM   #52
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Anyone coloured olive should head to a doctor immediately. Hypochromic anaemia can be treated.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:15 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
Anyone coloured olive should head to a doctor immediately. Hypochromic anaemia can be treated.
I always thought the "olive skin" notion had more to do with the Mediterranean area being a place where olives are grown than from actual resemblance between a skin tone and the fruit (are olives fruit?! OMG I DON'T KNOW). A cultural association, rather than an attempt to accurately describe a coloration.

I mean, olives are usually green or so purple they appear black, and I doubt the people who refer to "olive skin" are referring to either of those colors.

Perhaps "olive skin" means "pimply", from pimentos? In which case a lot of romantic descriptions of handsome heroes and lovely heroines in literature suddenly change impact! "My beloved Antonio, your face is as rippled with pimples as your stomach is with muscles!"
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Old 31st July 2020, 01:11 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
It's more alleles, there's six alleles with dominant and recessive. Melanin is dominant, so the more dominant alleles you have, the darker your skin. The more recessive, the paler skin. Because they are alleles, and equal, that's how the middling-brown UK couple had twins with one twin very pale, and one very dark. The parents had different mixes of dominant and recessive, so one twin could get all the recessives and the other all the dominants. Albinism is something else.
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I always thought the "olive skin" notion had more to do with the Mediterranean area being a place where olives are grown than from actual resemblance between a skin tone and the fruit (are olives fruit?! OMG I DON'T KNOW). A cultural association, rather than an attempt to accurately describe a coloration.

I mean, olives are usually green or so purple they appear black, and I doubt the people who refer to "olive skin" are referring to either of those colors.

...
I suspect that low levels of melanin plus varying back ground colors are what makes for Yellow, Red, or Olive skin tones. Back ground colors are variable with diet and bilirubin levels.

Or blood circulation in the skin. Bad arterial flow, pastey white. Bad venous flow, the blood stays in the skin and you are florid red.
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Old 31st July 2020, 01:13 PM   #55
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And freckles have room between them for the back ground tone to show through.

How variable are freckle melanin levels?
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Old 31st July 2020, 01:42 PM   #56
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In North America, the Eastern Woodland Indians over a very broad area liked to rub themselves with red ochre and bear grease, partly to fight biting insects, mostly for fash. The Europeans who encountered them in the 16th. century and later saw them as red, and spoke of them that way. It became a coloquialism.

But it didn't start that way: it was plainly descriptive.
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:14 PM   #57
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The inherent hypocrisy of obsession with race on this forum makes little sense to me, has nothing to do with skepticism.
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:47 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
The inherent hypocrisy of obsession with race on this forum makes little sense to me, has nothing to do with skepticism.
Explain, please.
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Old 31st July 2020, 04:51 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
The inherent hypocrisy of obsession with race on this forum makes little sense to me, has nothing to do with skepticism.
This is one of the few places on the internet where people somewhat tolerate long, drawn out discussion and elaboration on a single topic. That topic here just happens to be race/skin color.
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