2000 Mules

[The Great Zaganza]

Originally Posted by Warp12

Seriously, who are we to question the masterminds behind such fraud?

You are, D'Souza is, everyone who gives this CT any air convinced themselves that it would be less suspicious to have massive ticket splitting, something that is rare in US elections.

[Warp12]

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

You are, D'Souza is, everyone who gives this CT any air convinced themselves that it would be less suspicious to have massive ticket splitting, something that is rare in US elections.

Damn it, and just when they had me on the hook!

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

And, in Wisconsin, which Biden "won" by just 20K votes, a special counsel investigation found that 91 nursing homes had an astounding, unprecedented voter turnout rate of 95-100%. Investigators interviewed family members of many of the seniors in those nursing homes, and they repeatedly insisted that their loved ones were in no condition to vote and had not voted in years.

It does appear that in some cases workers at the nursing homes did fill in ballots for seniors who were effectively mentally incompetent and criminal charges have been recommended. Here's a good article on the issues:

Quote:

Racine County Sgt. Michael Luell said another seven residents with serious cognitive problems were "victimized" because trained poll workers were not allowed on-site, leading to nursing home workers allegedly filling out information on ballots and ballot envelopes for the residents whom he said were not able to make sound decisions.

As a result, Racine County Sheriff Christopher Schmaling recommended criminal charges be filed against five of the six elections commissioners over their advice to local election clerks.

As for the supposed amazing turnout by nursing home residents:

Quote:

Data provided to the Journal Sentinel by Milwaukee Election Commission Director Claire Woodall-Vogg show no nursing homes in the largest city included in Gableman's review experienced 100% turnout.

Overall, turnout in nursing homes in Milwaukee was 79%, according to data provided by Woodall-Vogg. And a smaller number of Milwaukee residents voted in such facilities in 2020 than in 2016, according to the Wisconsin Elections Commission.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Brainster

It does appear that in some cases workers at the nursing homes did fill in ballots for seniors who were effectively mentally incompetent and criminal charges have been recommended. Here's a good article on the issues:



As for the supposed amazing turnout by nursing home residents:

What I don't see is who these filled-in ballots had checked for president, Trump or Biden. Of course, the election-fraud advocates will believe they were all for Biden.

[eerok]

Here's a review of 2000 Mules that mirrored some of my criticisms, and raised even more.

2,000 Mules: Belly Laughs, Belly Aches from Film’s “Proof” that Trump Won (gregpalast.com)

Quote:

And what about those “non-profits” that paid the mules — 2,000 mules casting nearly a million illegal votes — 817,765 illegal ballots (we toted up their claims) in just five cities — i.e. Black cities. D’Souza tracked the mules to the offices of these “non-profits,” even had an Arizona whistleblower say she herself gathered the ballots and paid the mules out of one office. But the whistleblower is in shadow, unnamed…and D’Souza, oddly, conceals the name of this criminal “non-profit.” He won’t reveal the group because … well, that’s odd.

Quote:

Since proving ballots are stolen is easy (though time-consuming) why didn’t D’Souza prove his case? Provide a list of the names on the fraudulent ballots? Because he can’t.

D’Souza and True the Vote insist that tens of thousands of ballots in Georgia alone were stolen — yet there were no reports of ballot thefts. Voters would have found that someone cast their ballot when they tried to vote. They can’t prove a million ballots were stolen or illegally bought (“trafficked” in True the Vote’s terminology) because it didn’t happen.

This is significant, if accurate:

Quote:

The commercial geo-tracking services that True the Vote used can only identify a phone moving within 30 meters (93 feet) of a location. That is, if someone is jogging by a couple of drop boxes, although they are on the other side of a highway, they are “mules.”

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

The "fact checks" that I've seen so far on 2000 Mules strike me as nit-picky and weak. They don't deal with the heart of the evidence that the documentary presents.

Although traditional news outlets have ignored them, there've been a number of important discoveries relating to election fraud in the 2020 election. For example, a few months ago, an audit ordered by the Arizona Senate found evidence that 200,000 mail-in ballots had signature mismatches--i.e., the signature on the ballot did not match the signature on file. Biden "won" Arizona by just 11K votes. And, in Wisconsin, which Biden "won" by just 20K votes, a special counsel investigation found that 91 nursing homes had an astounding, unprecedented voter turnout rate of 95-100%. Investigators interviewed family members of many of the seniors in those nursing homes, and they repeatedly insisted that their loved ones were in no condition to vote and had not voted in years.

Similarly, a few weeks ago, important evidence of serious election fraud was uncovered in Georgia, thanks to a successful "open records" suit that forced Fulton County to release over 100 ballot scanner tapes. The tapes show that over 300,000 votes were not verified and, even worse, that over 100 ballot-scanner flashcards were not signed and were pulled prematurely from 12 different ballot scanners, in violation of the law. Pulling the flashcards prematurely and unsigned enabled them to be scanned in other ballot scanners undetected. Just the News has a detailed article on this important discovery. Keep in mind that Biden "won" Georgia by 12,000 votes. This evidence may explain the odd fact that Republicans won solid majorities in the Georgia legislature in the 2020 election (103 out of 141 House seats and 34 out of 56 Senate seats), yet somehow supposedly lost in the presidential voting.

I've produced a website that contains many articles on the evidence of serious election fraud in the 2020 election, but I can't provide the URL for this site because I haven't posted enough replies to qualify to do so.

And yet in all this time none of your 'evidence' convinced a single court including ones dominated by Rump appointed judges that there was any significant fraud.

Just taking the signature mismatches, yeah the GOP tried that here when we had a particularly close governor race. Turns out most if not all of the mismatches were because years/decades had passed between when people registered to vote. Does your sig look the same as it did 20 years ago? Mine doesn't.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

And yet in all this time none of your 'evidence' convinced a single court including ones dominated by Rump appointed judges that there was any significant fraud.

Just taking the signature mismatches, yeah the GOP tried that here when we had a particularly close governor race. Turns out most if not all of the mismatches were because years/decades had passed between when people registered to vote. Does your sig look the same as it did 20 years ago? Mine doesn't.

Hell, no...mine doesn't. In fact, I had my vote rejected a couple years back due to the signatures not matching. Thankfully, I was notified in plenty of time to fix that. But every year when I go to sign my ballot, I have to think which of my two signatures I most commonly use is the right one.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by eerok

Here's a review of 2000 Mules that mirrored some of my criticisms, and raised even more.

2,000 Mules: Belly Laughs, Belly Aches from Film’s “Proof” that Trump Won (gregpalast.com)



This is significant, if accurate:

The imprecision of GPS data and the urban setting makes this a garbage-in, garbage out scenario.

Drop boxes are frequently placed in busy, public places in which lots of people are going to be passing by for unrelated reasons. The GPS data is simply not precise enough to distinguish between people interreacting with the ballot drop box and irrelevant passerbys.

The whole "documentary" is based on making wild speculations based on patterns in data that could easily be explained innocently. The assertion that these "mules" are stuffing ballot boxes as part of some paid, coordinated liberal scheme is entirely unsupported.

ETA: The idea that a large vote rigging scheme could rely on many payed mules would be successful without any leaks doesn't pass the smell test. Large, complicated schemes are not ones that tend to stay secret for long.

[kookbreaker]

Yeah, if Philly was their go to example I’d like to see the routes shown and I’d bet there something to explain the “suspicious” paths they allege. Like a WaWa.

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Yeah, if Philly was their go to example I’d like to see the routes shown and I’d bet there something to explain the “suspicious” paths they allege. Like a WaWa.

I posted a reference to Philadelphia in message #5 of this thread. I quoted a report in the Orange County (Calif.) Register of May 5th. It appeared under the headline:

Fact check: Gaping holes in election fraud claims of ‘2000 Mules’ movie

Quote:

Pennsylvania state Sen. Sharif Street, who was there for True The Vote’s testimony [to Pennsylvania state senators] in March, told the AP he was confident he was counted as several of the group’s 1,155 anonymous “mules,” even though he didn’t deposit anything into a drop box in that time period. Street said he based his assessment on the fact that he carries a cellphone, a watch with a cellular connection, a tablet with a cellular connection and a mobile hotspot — four devices whose locations can be tracked by private companies. He also said he typically travels with a staffer who carries two devices, bringing the total on his person to six. During the 2020 election season, Street said, he brought those devices on trips to nonprofit offices and drop box rallies. He also drove by one drop box up to seven or eight times a day when traveling between his two political offices. Orange County Register link

It would seem there really is no 'evidence,' it's all speculation based on conjecture. But there is an audience for this and they obviously, desperately, want to believe it.

As is their right.

[EaglePuncher]

Originally Posted by eerok

Here's a review of 2000 Mules that mirrored some of my criticisms, and raised even more.

2,000 Mules: Belly Laughs, Belly Aches from Film’s “Proof” that Trump Won (gregpalast.com)



This is significant, if accurate:

In my experience, the most hilarious CTs come from the people who decided that their technical education was "finished" in the year 1980 or something. Shoutout to Silent Thermite etc.

[newyorkguy]

The trouble is, as the Greg Palast review that was referenced states, there may be an unhappy ending to all this:

Quote:

Still laughing? Prepare for the unhappy ending. This film will be the excuse for massive new vote suppression trickery all in the name of preventing “voter fraud.” In Georgia, under SB202, devised by Gov. Brian Kemp, Stacey Abrams’ likely opponent, Fulton County’s 38 drop boxes will be reduced to just eight and will be locked inside state buildings

Palast concludes:

Quote:

Let’s say a Biden-Trump race produces the same electoral count as in 2020. But in 2024, the GOP will have the “evidence,” bogus though it may be, of “mules” stuffing ballot boxes in Wisconsin, Georgia, Arizona and Michigan. This “evidence” will allow Republican Legislatures to claim the electoral votes of those states are in question and, on January 6, 2025, those Electoral College votes will not be certified by a Republican Congress. At that moment, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution will kick in and, in place of the Electoral College, each state will have one vote for President. Do the math.

Voiceover: And thus concludes the United States' experiment with democracy.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

The trouble is, as the Greg Palast review that was referenced states, there may be an unhappy ending to all this:


Palast concludes:



Voiceover: And thus concludes the United States' experiment with democracy.

Those horses are already out of the barn. The only way I don't see the 2024 presidential election being the center of a legitimacy crisis thanks to Republicans disregarding electoral results is if their candidate happens to win it fairly.

This is very much a cash-grab for D'Souza than anything else. In that way, it's quite well done because while making grand claims about vote rigging conspiracies, it smartly avoids naming any individuals or groups in any kind of defamatory way. They won't be ending up in shambles like those that smeared Dominion.

[Kestrel]

Ballot stuffing only works when there are no audit controls on the ballots. At a traditional polling place the number of voters who signed the poll book should match the number of ballots in the ballot box at the end of the day. Additional controls such as ballot pad numbers make it possible to determine which ballots are fraudulent.

In mail in ballot systems the ballot envelopes have a tracking number. Each arriving envelope is checked against the list of envelopes that were sent. An envelope with a tracking number that was never sent out or one that has already been received will be rejected.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

Ballot stuffing only works when there are no audit controls on the ballots. At a traditional polling place the number of voters who signed the poll book should match the number of ballots in the ballot box at the end of the day. Additional controls such as ballot pad numbers make it possible to determine which ballots are fraudulent.

In mail in ballot systems the ballot envelopes have a tracking number. Each arriving envelope is checked against the list of envelopes that were sent. An envelope with a tracking number that was never sent out or one that has already been received will be rejected.

Socialistcommiefascistlibtard LIES! That's what 'they' want you to believe!

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by mikegriffith1

Hillary got 65 million votes in 2016, but Obama got 4 million above that in 2008: 69 million, and he did so by winning 873 counties. However, magically, Biden broke Obama's record by a whopping 12 million votes while winning only 537 counties, *334* fewer counties than Obama won. Never, ever in U.S. history has there been such a gigantic disparity between a presidential candidate's alleged vote total and his number of counties won. Never. Not once. Not even close.

Leaving aside the impossible turnout numbers that were initially reported--but then hurriedly "corrected"--in many suspect counties, there are only two innocent explanations for the gigantic, unprecedented disparity between Biden's alleged vote total and his number of counties won: (1) there was a massive migration into many or all of the 537 counties that Biden won, or (2) there was a staggering increase in voter turnout large enough to overcome Trump's 12-million increase in votes, to overcome the substantial increase in Trump's share of four major minority voting blocks, and to overcome Biden's loss of 336 counties that Obama won in 2008.

I think you want this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=348224

[eerok]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I think you want this thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=348224

I think that argument was made for this entire thread a while back. But right-wing talking points, CTs -- what's the difference these days?

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by eerok

I think that argument was made for this entire thread a while back. But right-wing talking points, CTs -- what's the difference these days?

You can't see light between the two.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Hell, no...mine doesn't. In fact, I had my vote rejected a couple years back due to the signatures not matching. Thankfully, I was notified in plenty of time to fix that. But every year when I go to sign my ballot, I have to think which of my two signatures I most commonly use is the right one.

My Libertarian neighbor had his rejected 2006 with that close governor's race. He had 2 days to go to the registration office to attest to it being his sig. He was sure the Democrats had challenged his ballot until I showed him it was the GOP auditing the sigs on all the ballots in King County. They singled out the most Democratic voting county.

That's what got the GOP in trouble with their plan. The AG ruled unless they audited sigs in every county he was not going to charge anyone in King County with election fraud. Bush then promptly fired the AG for not doing Bush's bidding.

Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy^WP

McKay was one of eight U.S. attorneys fired by the Bush administration in 2006 which were, after the fact, publicly described as being for performance-related issues related to "policy, priorities and management."

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Kestrel

Ballot stuffing only works when there are no audit controls on the ballots. At a traditional polling place the number of voters who signed the poll book should match the number of ballots in the ballot box at the end of the day. Additional controls such as ballot pad numbers make it possible to determine which ballots are fraudulent.

In mail in ballot systems the ballot envelopes have a tracking number. Each arriving envelope is checked against the list of envelopes that were sent. An envelope with a tracking number that was never sent out or one that has already been received will be rejected.

Not to mention that except for the Georgia Senate race, somehow only the top of the ticket was affected.

[newyorkguy]

Regarding the number of "counties" Biden won, USA Today had this to say, back in December 2020.

Quote:

Ultimately, the fact that Biden and Obama were victorious in a relatively small number of counties is not relevant to their popular vote numbers. That's because there is an incredible amount of variance in county population size, per a report by the U.S. Census Bureau...The same 2017 report by the U.S. Census Bureau found that more than half of the U.S. population lives in just 143 counties, or 4.3% of all counties. USA Today link

More than HALF the US population resides in 4.3% of US counties. I didn't know that. But more to the point, this thread is about the movie 2000 Mules. But a trumper drags in the number of counties Biden won, in an effort to 'prove' trump actually won the 2020 election.

I haven't seen this level of self-delusion since I used to follow the 911 Truth threads. This is Thermite all over again!

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Those horses are already out of the barn. The only way I don't see the 2024 presidential election being the center of a legitimacy crisis thanks to Republicans disregarding electoral results is if their candidate happens to win it fairly.

This is very much a cash-grab for D'Souza than anything else. In that way, it's quite well done because while making grand claims about vote rigging conspiracies, it smartly avoids naming any individuals or groups in any kind of defamatory way. They won't be ending up in shambles like those that smeared Dominion.

And what do you propose to do about it except whine?

[Susheel]

Originally Posted by dudalb

And what do you propose to do about it except whine?

I am sorry... Pointing something out is whining?