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Old 4th April 2022, 09:11 PM   #841
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"Your business case is not detailed enough. We need to know what you require, what business functions you intend to use it for, and why this needs to be done in this way and not by another already existing method."

"I don't understand. I've already sent that to you."

"The business case you have sent is not detailed enough."

"But I don't know what other business case you are asking for. I've told you what I need it for."

"This request I'm looking at says just 'we need this for procurement'. That is not detailed enough. We need to know what you require, what business functions you intend to use it for, and why this needs to be done in this way and not by another already existing method."

"We just need to have a single phone line set up that we can send out in our communications for the public to call about our procurement process, and so that any members of our team can pick it up."

"There you go, we just need that in writing."

"But I've already sent you that."

"No, what you've sent is 'we need this for procurement'."

"I don't understand what you're asking for."
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Old 4th April 2022, 09:41 PM   #842
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"Your business case is not detailed enough. We need to know what you require, what business functions you intend to use it for, and why this needs to be done in this way and not by another already existing method."

"I don't understand. I've already sent that to you."

"The business case you have sent is not detailed enough."

"But I don't know what other business case you are asking for. I've told you what I need it for."

"This request I'm looking at says just 'we need this for procurement'. That is not detailed enough. We need to know what you require, what business functions you intend to use it for, and why this needs to be done in this way and not by another already existing method."

"We just need to have a single phone line set up that we can send out in our communications for the public to call about our procurement process, and so that any members of our team can pick it up."

"There you go, we just need that in writing."

"But I've already sent you that."

"No, what you've sent is 'we need this for procurement'."

"I don't understand what you're asking for."
Seriously. go sit with this dillbrain in a face-to-face. Make sure they know you spent the time and effort and taxi fare to do that. Offer to answer each and every query they have, provided that at the end of the meeting, your request can proceed unhindered. If they baulk at that then they are just stalling. Call their manager. Tell them you are going to do this.
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Old 5th April 2022, 01:16 AM   #843
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Seriously. go sit with this dillbrain in a face-to-face. Make sure they know you spent the time and effort and taxi fare to do that. Offer to answer each and every query they have, provided that at the end of the meeting, your request can proceed unhindered. If they baulk at that then they are just stalling. Call their manager. Tell them you are going to do this.
I think you just called arth a dillbrain.
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Old 5th April 2022, 01:34 AM   #844
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I think you just called arth a dillbrain.
No, he called the person I was talking to a dillbrain.
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Old 5th April 2022, 02:07 AM   #845
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, he called the person I was talking to a dillbrain.
Oh, you're the person requesting the phone? Apologies.
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Old 5th April 2022, 06:46 AM   #846
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Dear User: I appreciate that some users want to "just look through the data" themselves, but no, I'm not going to export four hundred million records to Excel so you can "browse" it. Think of what you're looking for, what questions you have, and we'll let the computers do the work, okay?
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Old 5th April 2022, 08:58 AM   #847
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: I appreciate that some users want to "just look through the data" themselves, but no, I'm not going to export four hundred million records to Excel so you can "browse" it. Think of what you're looking for, what questions you have, and we'll let the computers do the work, okay?
So four hundred worksheets at a million odd rows each? That should be fun....
Why not just use Excel to analyse the data source?
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Old 5th April 2022, 09:30 AM   #848
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: I appreciate that some users want to "just look through the data" themselves, but no, I'm not going to export four hundred million records to Excel so you can "browse" it. Think of what you're looking for, what questions you have, and we'll let the computers do the work, okay?
Preach it
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Old 5th April 2022, 09:33 AM   #849
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"Your business case is not detailed enough. We need to know what you require, what business functions you intend to use it for, and why this needs to be done in this way and not by another already existing method."

"I don't understand. I've already sent that to you."

"The business case you have sent is not detailed enough."

"But I don't know what other business case you are asking for. I've told you what I need it for."

"This request I'm looking at says just 'we need this for procurement'. That is not detailed enough. We need to know what you require, what business functions you intend to use it for, and why this needs to be done in this way and not by another already existing method."

"We just need to have a single phone line set up that we can send out in our communications for the public to call about our procurement process, and so that any members of our team can pick it up."

"There you go, we just need that in writing."

"But I've already sent you that."

"No, what you've sent is 'we need this for procurement'."

"I don't understand what you're asking for."
Along with that, if an organization has a team of people that all use a resource for the same reason, have some standard language established and put it in the onboarding instructions as what should be filled into the request when there's a new person on staff. Otherwise you get "Because my new boss said I needed this to do my job right." (of course, that's not IT's job to write the onboarding instructions)
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Old 5th April 2022, 04:17 PM   #850
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: I appreciate that some users want to "just look through the data" themselves, but no, I'm not going to export four hundred million records to Excel so you can "browse" it. Think of what you're looking for, what questions you have, and we'll let the computers do the work, okay?
That's what they want, though. They want the whole terabyte database in Excel.
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Old 5th April 2022, 05:49 PM   #851
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Introduce them to power bi.
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Old 5th April 2022, 07:29 PM   #852
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Give it to them as a text file without headers and a carriage return delimiter.
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Old 5th April 2022, 07:34 PM   #853
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear User: I appreciate that some users want to "just look through the data" themselves, but no, I'm not going to export four hundred million records to Excel so you can "browse" it. Think of what you're looking for, what questions you have, and we'll let the computers do the work, okay?
I'd be inclined to just do it. Let them see the absurdity of what they're asking for.
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Old 5th April 2022, 07:35 PM   #854
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Oh, you're the person requesting the phone? Apologies.
I think we may have a disconnect here. I was the one asking for a business case. I was talking to the dillbrain.
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Old 5th April 2022, 09:40 PM   #855
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That's what they want, though. They want the whole terabyte database in Excel.
"And could you put it on one page please?"
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Old 6th April 2022, 05:35 AM   #856
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
"And could you put it on one page please?"
"But the text can't be too small."
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Old 6th April 2022, 05:36 AM   #857
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"Hi a very important website that I need to use my job is down. I could access it yesterday. Could you please look into this. I use this website routinely in my job."

Yeah great, don't ya know mention the URL or even the website name or literally any information in the ticket.
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Old 6th April 2022, 06:15 AM   #858
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Hi a very important website that I need to use my job is down. I could access it yesterday. Could you please look into this. I use this website routinely in my job."

Yeah great, don't ya know mention the URL or even the website name or literally any information in the ticket.
But how can you not know something so important? This is the most important website in the world! Call yourself an IT bod!
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Old 6th April 2022, 06:17 AM   #859
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"But the text can't be too small."
I have unfortunately been faced with that paradox many times.
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Old 6th April 2022, 08:11 AM   #860
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
"And could you put it on one page please?"
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"But the text can't be too small."
An A0 sheet is a "page," right?
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Old 6th April 2022, 11:47 AM   #861
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
An A0 sheet is a "page," right?
One project I worked on had a weekly "status" report that was (In Ye Beginning) printed out on eight A3 pages and stuck on a handy wall.
People kept the idea up until it needed an A00 continuous feed plotter (i.e. 1.188 metre wide roll paper that came in massive [and extremely heavy] rolls) and took the length of a corridor. It took much of Tuesday for a team of people to print it, remove the previous iteration, and stick the new one up, especially as there were two rows of paper, so around 2.3m high and around fifteen long).

Pretty much pointless and a terrible waste of paper, ink and time, but the lead PM thought it was impressive.
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Old 6th April 2022, 12:48 PM   #862
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I haven't been able to access the timesheet system for over a month. It's one bright spot...
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Old 6th April 2022, 05:15 PM   #863
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
I haven't been able to access the timesheet system for over a month. It's one bright spot...
My mentour in software development had a story he used to tell about some massive report he used to run, and asked the recipient what he did with it, and went through a chain of people who said, "I give it to X.". When he got to the final person in the chain and asked him what he did with it, he just pointed to his wastebasket.
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Old 6th April 2022, 05:23 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Hi a very important website that I need to use my job is down. I could access it yesterday. Could you please look into this. I use this website routinely in my job."

Yeah great, don't ya know mention the URL or even the website name or literally any information in the ticket.
Yeah, it would be nice to know which website. The other question is, is this particular website something you can actually do something about (i.e. either it's your own website, or it's being blocked by your firewall or other security software), or is it somebody else's website that has gone down (possibly for good) over which you have no control whatsoever?

In a somewhat related matter, I don't know how many times I had to explain to someone that, if a link on our website to an external website quit functioning, that I had no control over whether somebody else's website (or a particular page on it that was linked form our website), continued to function. The most I could do was remove (or maybe update) the links that no longer referenced an existing website.

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Old 6th April 2022, 06:27 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
I haven't been able to access the timesheet system for over a month. It's one bright spot...
My online HR system calculates my leave accrual down to 1/100th of a second and displays it in decimal time. An online conversion calculator tells me that right now I have 6 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes, and 41.18 seconds of annual leave accrued.

I find this fact amusingly absurd.
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Old 6th April 2022, 08:41 PM   #866
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"Oh hi I'm just giving you a quick call because I had an issue with payroll and I'm not sure if this is you because I'm new and my supervisor told me to fill in a form so I did that and I just got a notification that it was resolved but it's not resolved and my supervisor suggested that I get in contact with you to follow up but like I said I'm new and this is just a quick call so I'm not going to give you an opportunity to say anything not even to tell me the proper number to call because I'm new and my supervisor suggested that I give you a call to see if we can work out where it's at because I really need to get this sorted out and I'm not sure if I'm calling the right area but my supervisor suggested that I call this number and..."

The above is exaggerated only a little bit.
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Old 6th April 2022, 10:31 PM   #867
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This place has some of the strangest conversations.

"Who's on koala? Are you on koala?"
"I'm not on koala yet. Are you?"
"Yeah, I got koala last week."

The above exchange makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 6th April 2022, 11:09 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This place has some of the strangest conversations.

"Who's on koala? Are you on koala?"
"I'm not on koala yet. Are you?"
"Yeah, I got koala last week."

The above exchange makes perfect sense to me.
Obviously an acronym!

Knowledge Order Australian Language Agreement?
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Old 6th April 2022, 11:10 PM   #869
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This place has some of the strangest conversations.

"Who's on koala? Are you on koala?"
"I'm not on koala yet. Are you?"
"Yeah, I got koala last week."

The above exchange makes perfect sense to me.
"Koala" sounds like the name of a server.

Several years ago I was chatting with a friend who at the time was working for a local university. During the conversation he mentioned a server named "Io" and later another named "Callisto." So as a joke I asked him about the Ganymede server. My friend went silent for a few seconds, then asked, "How do you know about that system? It's not even on the internet!"

The Galilean moons of Jupiter are Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto. Initially I thought he meant "I/O" when he was taking about the Io server, but as soon as he mentioned Callisto I recognized the pattern.
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Old 6th April 2022, 11:31 PM   #870
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Close. It's actually the unofficial title of the new version of the SOE. Each SOE update gets an animal mascot. So far we've had wombat, kookaburra, cockatoo and now koala. I'm on koala - it's what I was talking about here. Koala has more security, including multi-factor authentication and no password managers.
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Old 7th April 2022, 01:22 AM   #871
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This place has some of the strangest conversations.

"Who's on koala? Are you on koala?"
"I'm not on koala yet. Are you?"
"Yeah, I got koala last week."

The above exchange makes perfect sense to me.
We used to have a server called "god". Always amusing when it went down:

Code:
# ping god
god is unreachable
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Old 7th April 2022, 05:17 AM   #872
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I miss the server names we used to have at work. Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Apollo... now we're stuck with DC1, DC2, ZFS01 through ZFS06, etc. Borrrrring.
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Old 7th April 2022, 05:26 AM   #873
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Originally Posted by Yalius View Post
I miss the server names we used to have at work. Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Apollo... now we're stuck with DC1, DC2, ZFS01 through ZFS06, etc. Borrrrring.
PC labs in college had the same sense of humor. And the names would change theme based on type and generation. All the old pcs were on one theme while the macs were on another. The newer pcs would come in with a completely different theme and of course the handful of Unix boxes were a theme onto themselves.

That was much more fun.
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Old 7th April 2022, 05:34 AM   #874
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Yeah, it would be nice to know which website. The other question is, is this particular website something you can actually do something about (i.e. either it's your own website, or it's being blocked by your firewall or other security software), or is it somebody else's website that has gone down (possibly for good) over which you have no control whatsoever?
My user base makes zero distinction between that or I'm not kidding when I say a lot of them don't know the difference.

Part of this is because we do have a lot of web based, or applications through a web browser that we do sorta (all that way in some cases, part of the way in others) have control over.

(The website came back up literally before I could email the user back to get more info if anyone cares.)
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Old 7th April 2022, 08:59 AM   #875
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
My mentour in software development had a story he used to tell about some massive report he used to run, and asked the recipient what he did with it, and went through a chain of people who said, "I give it to X.". When he got to the final person in the chain and asked him what he did with it, he just pointed to his wastebasket.
The report at the insurance company I worked for was more massive than that report.
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Old 7th April 2022, 09:03 AM   #876
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Or there was the massive report printed each night that was a trace a programmer hadn't turned off.
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Old 7th April 2022, 12:24 PM   #877
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Why is it that the most ridiculously complicated requests are always prefaced by "can't you just...."? No, I can't just reconcile two numbers derived from entirely different datasets obtained using radically different logic, particularly when one of them does its selection in a way that hinges on when the query is run -- run it a day later and the data changes because it's deliberately meant to be a snapshot. And no, I can't just do one set of numbers as they are now and make them match a slightly different set of numbers acquired using a different method at several different points in the past! As long as people are allowed to update a database with new or changed information then no, everything will not always match everything previously acquired! Argh!!!!!!
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Old 7th April 2022, 03:13 PM   #878
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
My mentour in software development had a story he used to tell about some massive report he used to run, and asked the recipient what he did with it, and went through a chain of people who said, "I give it to X.". When he got to the final person in the chain and asked him what he did with it, he just pointed to his wastebasket.
We ran into this a lot when we would install our accounting package in place of an existing one. One thing we always went through was make sure everybody had the reports they needed, and that usually involved a custom report or two.

But we almost always found one or more reports printed daily/weekly/monthly that had been used for years but were no longer looked at by anyone, and usually no one really knew when they started or why.
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Old 7th April 2022, 03:48 PM   #879
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I'm getting pretty tired of people trying to be sneaky by timing their emails. No, sending your request at 5:01 pm is not going to fool anybody into thinking you've "been waiting a whole day". We're working from home, 5:00 isn't some magical time any more. And the company tries to do the same thing by sending out company-wide emails late on Friday afternoons. Will it really have less of a bad morale effect if everyone actually reads them Monday morning?
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Old 7th April 2022, 06:13 PM   #880
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm getting pretty tired of people trying to be sneaky by timing their emails. No, sending your request at 5:01 pm is not going to fool anybody into thinking you've "been waiting a whole day". We're working from home, 5:00 isn't some magical time any more. And the company tries to do the same thing by sending out company-wide emails late on Friday afternoons. Will it really have less of a bad morale effect if everyone actually reads them Monday morning?
Well, there's something to be said for not sending out bad news right before a weekend. I'd much rather get a kick in the head on Monday morning, when I'm already getting plenty of kicks in the head, than on Friday afternoon and have it potentially ruin my weekend.
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