[Continuation] Australian Politics - The Morrison Period Part II - Page 8

Wildy · 20th August 2021, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by novaphile

I'm guessing that they're receiving reports that it's inevitable that the delta strain will be brought to the wilds of South Australia, and we want to reduce the risk as much as possible.

Again. IIRC the last lockdown was because of delta.

Originally Posted by lionking

A new record set by NSW, with 825 daily infections, soon to reach over 1000. Gladys is a national embarrassment. At today’s press conference saying that no state can control the virus, and that case numbers are really unimportant. Have a talk to WA, Qld, SA and Tas. And also in Vic when we control the virus in a couple of weeks.

But haven't you heard? You can't control it, you just have to live with it. I fully expect NSW to just reopen completely once they hit the 70% vaccination rate regardless of how many cases are present in the community.

Quote:

NSW has also stopped publishing exposure sites, because, according to the Health Department, it just confuses people.

I think they stopped doing that on Tuesday. I think the reason why they stopped was because most of the transmission sites were in stores and it's a bad look for the whole "we can do this without shutting everything down" argument that they were holding on to until recently.

Now, of course, the message is that we have to live with the virus.

Orphia Nay · 20th August 2021, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Wildy

I fully expect NSW to just reopen completely once they hit the 70% vaccination rate regardless of how many cases are present in the community.

Meanwhile Dan's saying 80% is the magic number, including masking and social distancing.

We don't want to end up with NSW like Israel, who, with 80% vaccinated are getting 6500 new cases a day after letting it all hang out after getting to 80%.

Wildy · 20th August 2021, 09:26 PM

I believe the report that was being cited about reopening when vaccinations hit 80% said something along those lines as well. It's just that certain parts of the government are treating it like "all restrictions can be lifted". It also wasn't expecting a large number of transmissions like we are currently seeing in NSW.

I know Morrison has already threatened (or should I say "issued an implicit warning") states that they have to reopen when rates reach 70-80%, but I don't think anyone has said which 70-80%. I feel like it should be fully vaccinated, but I think the pressure to reopen will start once they hit that for first doses.

Orphia Nay · 20th August 2021, 09:36 PM

We're only 29.6% fully vaccinated (Australian Deputy Chief Medical Officer covid update just now).

Orphia Nay · 20th August 2021, 09:40 PM

The Atheist · 20th August 2021, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Because you can only get to build rapport, get to know people and communicate more effectively face-to-face.

Old-fashioned thinking and utter nonsense stated by people who think they can read body language. In fact I've started a thread on the subject, because it annoys the tits off me. A great excuse to perpetuate pointless travel.
________________________

NSW has clearly lost control entirely, but I see Victoria is having a few struggles too.

Also, I still don't understand your "lockdowns" when I see horse and greyhound racing continuing in both states no matter what level of lockdown you're in.

Norman Alexander · 20th August 2021, 10:45 PM

If NSW has lost control, what should Gladys be doing instead? How would YOU fix it?

Remember that locking everyone in their huts means no food or essential services for the duration. Because some people need to leave their huts to grow/make, pack, deliver and sell food. And other people have to leave their huts to run the essential services. Like hospitals, in particular.

So bearing that in mind, what's the answer now? Kill and bury the infected, a la 28 Days Later?

lionking · 20th August 2021, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

If NSW has lost control, what should Gladys be doing instead? How would YOU fix it?

Remember that locking everyone in their huts means no food or essential services for the duration. Because some people need to leave their huts to grow/make, pack, deliver and sell food. And other people have to leave their huts to run the essential services. Like hospitals, in particular.

So bearing that in mind, what's the answer now? Kill and bury the infected, a la 28 Days Later?

No she can’t do much more now. But she deserves to be condemned for 8 weeks of not seriously locking down. And doing so reluctantly. Even yesterday all she could come up with. Hardware stores is to “urge people to click and collect”. Lock the ******* places down. Melbourne didn’t fall apart without hardware stores.

She has blood on her hands and doesn’t warrant forgiveness or understanding.

The Atheist · 21st August 2021, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

If NSW has lost control, what should Gladys be doing instead? How would YOU fix it?

I don't think it's able to be fixed, that horse bolted weeks ago, and you're right on the economic cost - it can't go on forever.

Given the vaccination rate, I think she's going to have to just let it go and hope the number of vaccinated keeps the toll down to acceptable levels. I reckon if you get away with less than 1000 deaths you could call it a victory.

The Atheist · 21st August 2021, 04:33 AM

Jesus, that looks like some protest in Melbourne today.

4000 people and over 200 arrests.

dellarte · 21st August 2021, 05:59 AM

At an anti-COVID lockdown protest, I saw a press person handing rudimentary legal flyers on A4 paper titled, "notice of conditional acceptance", to bright-eyed youths. The youths waved these notices at police and got arrested. The press person got their scoop. Cameras nearby, ready to take photos.

psionl0 · 21st August 2021, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

I don’t fully agree. Transferring information over zoom is not always enough. With my job I’m required to decide if the workplace is a suitable and safe environment for training, with proper procedures and equipment. I can’t do that over zoom. The government (who we have a contract with) definitely wants us on the road.

"Transferring information" is just a generic term for tasks that could be handled remotely. The days when everybody had to trudge down to the office just so that they can sit behind a computer terminal or answer telephones are (or should be) drawing to a close. Our environment depends on this.

I agree that not every job can be done from home 100% of the time and face to face meetings may be more valuable than meetings done via face time - provided they are not held too frequently.

Norman Alexander · 21st August 2021, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

No she can’t do much more now. But she deserves to be condemned for 8 weeks of not seriously locking down. And doing so reluctantly. Even yesterday all she could come up with. Hardware stores is to “urge people to click and collect”. Lock the ******* places down. Melbourne didn’t fall apart without hardware stores.

She has blood on her hands and doesn’t warrant forgiveness or understanding.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I don't think it's able to be fixed, that horse bolted weeks ago, and you're right on the economic cost - it can't go on forever.

Given the vaccination rate, I think she's going to have to just let it go and hope the number of vaccinated keeps the toll down to acceptable levels. I reckon if you get away with less than 1000 deaths you could call it a victory.

So no solutions beyond retribution and "let it go". Does this mean you expect Gladys to appear at a press conference and say "Ah, **** it, NSW. You're on your own! Nothing I can do will fix this."

Orphia Nay · 21st August 2021, 04:59 PM

Bloody idiot protesters.

I'd protest the protesters but I'm not that much of an idiot.

Wildy · 21st August 2021, 09:18 PM

Morrison wants the states to stick to the lockdown plan even though the advice from the Doherty Institute was assuming a far lower infection rate compared to reality.

It'll be interesting to see what their updated advice is, but I think there's going to be a fight between the States and the Federal Government over this.

lionking · 21st August 2021, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wildy

Morrison wants the states to stick to the lockdown plan even though the advice from the Doherty Institute was assuming a far lower infection rate compared to reality.

It'll be interesting to see what their updated advice is, but I think there's going to be a fight between the States and the Federal Government over this.

There will be a fight, but Morrison won’t win. States have regulations controlling entry, not the Feds. Parker failed in his High Court case about this. There is no way states will allow people from Sydney to enter if cases remain high.

Also, as I understand it, the Doherty modelling was done on earlier versions of the virus. 80% vaccination barely slows it down. Herd immunity requires something like 95% vaccinated.

The Atheist · 22nd August 2021, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So no solutions beyond retribution and "let it go".

I'm not sure why you're asking me for a resolution to something I have repeatedly described as irreversible.

Have a go yourself and I'll give you marks out of 10 for it.

I couldn't give a flying **** what Gladys says or does, I'm commenting on what's going to happen. She is now irrelevant to the NSW Covid outbreak.

lionking · 22nd August 2021, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I couldn't give a flying **** what Gladys says or does, I'm commenting on what's going to happen. She is now irrelevant to the NSW Covid outbreak.

Absolutely. She didn’t turn up for the presser today, and neither did Chant. If she had able deputies, this would not be so bad, but Hazzard?

Giving up on elimination, as she obviously has, is cowardice. Child care is still open in NSW. Hardware shops are still open. Disgraceful.

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I'm not sure why you're asking me for a resolution to something I have repeatedly described as irreversible.

Have a go yourself and I'll give you marks out of 10 for it.

I couldn't give a flying **** what Gladys says or does, I'm commenting on what's going to happen. She is now irrelevant to the NSW Covid outbreak.

Again, you are not here to offer any solutions beyond letting it run and being smarmy at politicians. "Just blame Gladys" gets those of us who are living through this nowhere. At least she is making an effort, even if it seems forlorn in the face of some irresponsible recalcitrants.

Originally Posted by lionking

Absolutely. She didn’t turn up for the presser today, and neither did Chant. If she had able deputies, this would not be so bad, but Hazzard?

Giving up on elimination, as she obviously has, is cowardice. Child care is still open in NSW. Hardware shops are still open. Disgraceful.

So what is YOUR solution? Everyone be forced to hunker down in their huts for a month, never venturing out, with absolutely zero shops open whatever? If not, what WOULD you allow? You be premier. Be specific, justify your decisions, tell us all.

The Atheist · 22nd August 2021, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Again, you are not here to offer any solutions beyond letting it run and being smarmy at politicians.

Now you're just making things up, probably as a means of avoiding the question I put to you. Let me spell it simply, so please work through at your leisure:

1 - I have offered a solution - there isn't one, so let it rip.
2 - You haven't give me your solution to it that I requested in the post you quoted.
3 - I don't believe you will be able to find a single example of me making smarmy comments about Gladys - that's pure fantasy from inside your own head. I've only mentioned her once, to say I don't give a flying **** what she does.

I await your answer to #2 with bated breath.

It looks to me as though you're making deliberately contrarian posts while offering nothing yourself.

How original.

lionking · 22nd August 2021, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So what is YOUR solution? Everyone be forced to hunker down in their huts for a month, never venturing out, with absolutely zero shops open whatever? If not, what WOULD you allow? You be premier. Be specific, justify your decisions, tell us all.

I think I’ve said what I would do. Repeatedly. I have never said all shops should be shut, only unnecessary ones like hardware shops. Only open supermarkets and chemists. Close childcare except for definable essential worker parents. Have the same rules across the whole state until things get under control.

But my main issue, which I have said many times, is that Gladys WENT TOO ******* LATE. She could do all the things I propose and I will still condemn her.

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

I think I’ve said what I would do. Repeatedly. I have never said all shops should be shut, only unnecessary ones like hardware shops. Only open supermarkets and chemists. Close childcare except for definable essential worker parents. Have the same rules across the whole state until things get under control.

I'm part way through a house build, or a renovation, or a storm has damaged the roof, and the house leaks like a sieve and has no locks. My house is currently covered by tarps and I'm praying it doesn't rain because every time it does, more of it is water damaged. My insurance company isn't caring. Am I expected to wait until COVID-normal six months from now before I can expect repairs to happen? If not,and a builder is allowed out of his hut to keep working, where do his building supplies come from?

Quote:

But my main issue, which I have said many times, is that Gladys WENT TOO ******* LATE. She could do all the things I propose and I will still condemn her.

Stable doors and horses. You have the current situation NOW. This is square one. What do you expect premiers to do RIGHT NOW?

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Now you're just making things up, probably as a means of avoiding the question I put to you. Let me spell it simply, so please work through at your leisure:

1 - I have offered a solution - there isn't one, so let it rip.

Awesome! Just let the kids die. Should be fun.

Quote:

2 - You haven't give me your solution to it that I requested in the post you quoted.

I'm asking you. You seem happy to pontificate from afar on how badly you think things are being done here. SO I'm asking you to produce more of your infinite wisdom to provide an actual solution. So far, that has been to run and hide from the problem.

Quote:

3 - I don't believe you will be able to find a single example of me making smarmy comments about Gladys - that's pure fantasy from inside your own head. I've only mentioned her once, to say I don't give a flying **** what she does.

Two sentences contradicting each other.

Quote:

I await your answer to #2 with bated breath.

It looks to me as though you're making deliberately contrarian posts while offering nothing yourself.

How original.

Not smarmy at all.

The Atheist · 22nd August 2021, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Awesome! Just let the kids die. Should be fun.

Predictably pathetic response.

Given that children are currently unable to be vaccinated, do you propose keeping them in isolation forever?

Also, don't let scientific fact stand in the way of your nonsensical response.

Children are so unlikely to die from Covid that it can be safely ignored. With a death rate of 25 kids <18 from Covid over 12 months, kids are 20 times more likely to die from something other than Covid.

Children are far more likely to be murdered by a parent than die of Covid - maybe we should stop breeding? Or maybe make murdering your kids illegal! That will work.

RSV has a much higher death rate for kids than Covid, along with many other reasons for kids dying.

Like I said, you're posting contrarian nonsense.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm asking you.

Which doesn't remove the obligation for you to give your answer.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

You seem happy to pontificate from afar on how badly you think things are being done here.

I've highlighted inadequacies everywhere, including NZ.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

SO I'm asking you to produce more of your infinite wisdom to provide an actual solution. So far, that has been to run and hide from the problem.

Absolute proof of the kind of contrarian nonsense you're posting, because my answer of "let it rip" is the exact opposite of running and hiding.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Two sentences contradicting each other.

Not smarmy at all.

It looks like as well as needing a science/maths lesson you need help with English.

What does "smarmy" mean?

Live and learn: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/smarmy

lionking · 22nd August 2021, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I'm part way through a house build, or a renovation, or a storm has damaged the roof, and the house leaks like a sieve and has no locks. My house is currently covered by tarps and I'm praying it doesn't rain because every time it does, more of it is water damaged. My insurance company isn't caring. Am I expected to wait until COVID-normal six months from now before I can expect repairs to happen? If not,and a builder is allowed out of his hut to keep working, where do his building supplies come from?

As we do it in Melbourne. Click and collect.

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

As we do it in Melbourne. Click and collect.

Building timber??

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Predictably pathetic response.

Given that children are currently unable to be vaccinated, do you propose keeping them in isolation forever?

Also, don't let scientific fact stand in the way of your nonsensical response.

Children are so unlikely to die from Covid that it can be safely ignored. With a death rate of 25 kids <18 from Covid over 12 months, kids are 20 times more likely to die from something other than Covid.

Children are far more likely to be murdered by a parent than die of Covid - maybe we should stop breeding? Or maybe make murdering your kids illegal! That will work.

RSV has a much higher death rate for kids than Covid, along with many other reasons for kids dying.

Please tell this comforting story to the parents of all the children who will die of COVID Delta. The numbers you cite are from the UK and Wales, for the much less virulent Alpha variant. So still "let the kids die". Good to know your priorities,

Quote:

Like I said, you're posting contrarian nonsense.

Nope, I'm living through this, and you are pontificating from afar. I am not waiting for a "right" answer, I'm waiting for a "good" answer.

To be clear: I'm no fan of Gladys or her LNP government. Bunch of inept wankers and squatters for the most part. Nor do I think she has done a good job on this. The problems were obvious at the start. And I agree with you and lionking: She should have gone hard and fast from the start, and bugger trying to mollify Scomo and his "pray to gawd and keep business running". But they didn't, and so here we are. Now, how do we get out of it. Alive.

At least Gladys is trying something to halt the disaster and get us back on track, even if it is in a cack-handed way. If you were premier and your response was "**** it, let the sick people die including the kids (what's a few more kids anyway), we can't stop it", you would be strung up from a lamppost before sunset.

Quote:

Which doesn't remove the obligation for you to give your answer.

What obligation is that? It's not some sort of Mastermind game here, with whoever has the most right answers wins. If you have a brilliant solution or two, I can put you in touch with Gladys right away. I'm sure she would melt with gratitude and relief at your genius.

Quote:

I've highlighted inadequacies everywhere, including NZ.

Sure. So what are your solutions to these perceived inadequacies? Whinge some more? Complaining is easy; solutions are difficult.

Quote:

Absolute proof of the kind of contrarian nonsense you're posting, because my answer of "let it rip" is the exact opposite of running and hiding.

Running and hiding from the problem of COVID. Throwing your hands up and saying, "let it rip".

Quote:

It looks like as well as needing a science/maths lesson you need help with English.

Looks like you need a lesson in empathy. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

lionking · 22nd August 2021, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Building timber??

Yes. Pick it up with a trailer or have it delivered.

This is happening now and during other lockdowns.

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Yes. Pick it up with a trailer or have it delivered.

This is happening now and during other lockdowns.

Like this?

Quote:

Bunnings has announced it will close all its stores across Greater Sydney to customers and not just in hotspot LGAs.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...2e5a94e79ed6fe

Up until then, it has been one-person limit, limited people in the stores, "purposeful shopping". Which is exactly the same as supermarkets which remain open.

lionking · 22nd August 2021, 06:22 PM

Well, we have been successfully purchasing hardware online for months, and either collecting it contactlessly of having it delivered.

Norman Alexander · 22nd August 2021, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Well, we have been successfully purchasing hardware online for months, and either collecting it contactlessly of having it delivered.

This doesn't work for trade builders. Only home gardeners, tinkerers and maybe painters.

Scomo and Gladys have been trying to keep a semblance of the economy afloat by keeping building going, albeit under extremely restricted rules. This has affected myself particularly. Our house reno was supposed to be finished in June/July. It is still not done. Numerous lockdowns, restrictions, travel limits, and delivery delays have added months and tens of thousands of dollars to our costs (and our builders - timber prices have skyrocketed). And we still haven't got a useful house to live in. Our dining room was supposed to be a campsite kitchen for a month while the new one was built. Six months later...no change yet.

Also, how do the click-and-collect operations work without employees travelling to the warehouses (some by public transport) to do the lift-and-load work? Ditto supermarkets and pharmacies. And further back, how do the products get made, packaged and shipped to stores? By people who have to go to work together necessarily. You can't run a hospital, farm, factory or abattoir via Zoom. So just "shutting down everything but essentials" means asking first "What is essential?" It's sure a lot more than supermarkets and pharmacies.

arthwollipot · 22nd August 2021, 07:46 PM

I went to Belconnen Mall on the weekend because my work shoes died and I wanted to see if there was anywhere I could get new shoes. There isn't. Pretty much the only places that are open right now are supermarkets, food outlets and phone repairs.

The Atheist · 22nd August 2021, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Please tell this comforting story to the parents of all the children who will die of COVID Delta. The numbers you cite are from the UK and Wales, for the much less virulent Alpha variant.

Oh dear, I was right about the dictionary.

Go check the different between "more infectious" and "more virulent".

Delta is no more dangerous than the original.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

So still "let the kids die". Good to know your priorities,

Have you banned riding bicycles, climbing trees and all the other things killing more children than Covid?

Like I said, utterly pathetic.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Now, how do we get out of it. Alive.

Comments like that are half the problem - Covid isn't Captain Trips, Ebola or even MERS. It's been proven to have a fatality rate 10 times more than influenza - not enough to create the climate of fear you're encouraging. With over 50s vaccinated, the obvious and sensible answer is to allow normality to recommence.

And I do love the irony that in all of your crying about people dying you're ignoring the fact that lockdowns kill people as well. Lack of medical care, suicide and homicide are just three of the issues you're happy to ignore because you are personally scared ********.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

No, the problem is needless fearmongering. People die every day, I'd suggest you learn to live with that unfortunate fact, or maybe join a church.

lionking · 22nd August 2021, 11:21 PM

Morrison is acting tough again, insisting that states open up at 70% and 80% vaccination rates, regardless of how many infections are in the community. Qld and WA quickly rejected this. Gladys, of course, insisted on lecturing other states that they would all have high infections when borders opened, courtesy of NSW.

Morrison cannot win a war with the states over borders unless he brings the army in. Is he that stupid?

If anyone wants to see the result of opening up without reducing infections, have a look at Israel. 80% vaccinated, let it rip, and now 7000 cases a day. NSW and other states stupid enough to let large numbers of NSW residents in, will suffer the same fate.

The Atheist · 23rd August 2021, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

If anyone wants to see the result of opening up without reducing infections, have a look at Israel. 80% vaccinated, let it rip, and now 7000 cases a day. NSW and other states stupid enough to let large numbers of NSW residents in, will suffer the same fate.

Israel looks like an anomaly - nobody can figure out quite what's gone wrong there.

Germany - 70% vaccination rate, and deaths down to 20 a day.
UK - 70%, and deaths ~70 a day (almost exactly the same as seasonal 'flu)

Then there are Hungary & Czech Republic, who have had low vaccine rates but very high infections, where the outbreak has almost disappeared.

I'd go along with a 70% vaccination rate as the level where you should be opening up.

lionking · 23rd August 2021, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Israel looks like an anomaly - nobody can figure out quite what's gone wrong there.

Germany - 70% vaccination rate, and deaths down to 20 a day.
UK - 70%, and deaths ~70 a day (almost exactly the same as seasonal 'flu)

Then there are Hungary & Czech Republic, who have had low vaccine rates but very high infections, where the outbreak has almost disappeared.

I'd go along with a 70% vaccination rate as the level where you should be opening up.

The big problem is that nobody knows the long term impact of covid, particularly on children. It’s a mighty gamble to just let it rip.

There’s also the psychological impact on those infected. I mentioned in other threads that one of my sons got infected early last year. He’s getting on with his successful life, but he worries about his long term health.

lionking · 23rd August 2021, 04:17 AM

Getting back to pure federal politics, I have now decided that I, a Labor voter from the womb, a true believer, light on the hill acolyte and hater of all things LNP, will not vote for a party led by Albanese next Federal election.

ALP will get my vote in Victoria, to the surprise of nobody.

Norman Alexander · 23rd August 2021, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

Getting back to pure federal politics, I have now decided that I, a Labor voter from the womb, a true believer, light on the hill acolyte and hater of all things LNP, will not vote for a party led by Albanese next Federal election.

ALP will get my vote in Victoria, to the surprise of nobody.

If only NSW Labor was actually organised, I would vote for them. But nobody even knows their leader's name let alone policies! They are getting drowned out by the daily Gladys Show being flocked by the headline-chasers of the media.

And yeah, Albo is not Gough or Hawke or even Keating or Rudd. A drone, both in activity and voice.

Norman Alexander · 23rd August 2021, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Delta is no more dangerous than the original.

Just that it is about 7 times more infectious, and has more vectors capable. So in a population it IS worse.

Quote:

Have you banned riding bicycles, climbing trees and all the other things killing more children than Covid?

It's lockdown. So yes.

Quote:

Comments like that are half the problem - Covid isn't Captain Trips, Ebola or even MERS. It's been proven to have a fatality rate 10 times more than influenza - not enough to create the climate of fear you're encouraging. With over 50s vaccinated, the obvious and sensible answer is to allow normality to recommence.

Last I heard, influenza was a mass killer too. We have it every year, yes? And have developed vaccines against it, yes? And COVID is 10 times more fatal and far more infectious. So totally "normal".

Quote:

And I do love the irony that in all of your crying about people dying you're ignoring the fact that lockdowns kill people as well. Lack of medical care, suicide and homicide are just three of the issues you're happy to ignore because you are personally scared ********.

You do know you sound just like those idiots parading in the streets of the world demanding their "freedumbs" while being superspreaders of this disease.

Quote:

No, the problem is needless fearmongering. People die every day, I'd suggest you learn to live with that unfortunate fact, or maybe join a church.

I guess the 4.5 million extra, avoidable deaths in this outbreak are expendable if it means getting business back up and running? Scomo the Church-goer thinks this too. So you have that in common.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-toll/

The Atheist · 23rd August 2021, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

The big problem is that nobody knows the long term impact of covid, particularly on children. It’s a mighty gamble to just let it rip.

I disagree. At this stage of the pandemic, long Covid seems to be a very minor issue for kids, whereas we know very well what interrupting their education does, and all the impacts of that are negative, and often lifelong.

Which is the greater risk?

Personally, and I said this often last year, education is more important than Covid, in the case of children.

Originally Posted by lionking

There’s also the psychological impact on those infected. I mentioned in other threads that one of my sons got infected early last year. He’s getting on with his successful life, but he worries about his long term health.

I'm not sure that's relevant. I'd be telling him to forget about it.

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

You do know you sound just like those idiots parading in the streets of the world demanding their "freedumbs" while being superspreaders of this disease.

When lacking effective argument, resort to fallacious analogies.

How cute.

And followed up with a strawman, so double points for that:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I guess the 4.5 million extra, avoidable deaths in this outbreak are expendable if it means getting business back up and running?

(Bears no relationship to what I've said, which I repeat, was contingent upon high vaccination rates)

The only question I have is whether it's plain old stupidity or abject fear.

20th August 2021, 09:00 PM	#282
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,453	Originally Posted by Wildy I fully expect NSW to just reopen completely once they hit the 70% vaccination rate regardless of how many cases are present in the community. Meanwhile Dan's saying 80% is the magic number, including masking and social distancing. We don't want to end up with NSW like Israel, who, with 80% vaccinated are getting 6500 new cases a day after letting it all hang out after getting to 80%.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

20th August 2021, 09:36 PM	#284
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,453	We're only 29.6% fully vaccinated (Australian Deputy Chief Medical Officer covid update just now).
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

20th August 2021, 09:40 PM	#285
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,453
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

20th August 2021, 10:05 PM	#286
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by lionking Because you can only get to build rapport, get to know people and communicate more effectively face-to-face. Old-fashioned thinking and utter nonsense stated by people who think they can read body language. In fact I've started a thread on the subject, because it annoys the tits off me. A great excuse to perpetuate pointless travel. ________________________ NSW has clearly lost control entirely, but I see Victoria is having a few struggles too. Also, I still don't understand your "lockdowns" when I see horse and greyhound racing continuing in both states no matter what level of lockdown you're in.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. Last edited by The Atheist; 20th August 2021 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Add link

20th August 2021, 10:45 PM	#287
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	If NSW has lost control, what should Gladys be doing instead? How would YOU fix it? Remember that locking everyone in their huts means no food or essential services for the duration. Because some people need to leave their huts to grow/make, pack, deliver and sell food. And other people have to leave their huts to run the essential services. Like hospitals, in particular. So bearing that in mind, what's the answer now? Kill and bury the infected, a la 28 Days Later?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

20th August 2021, 08:58 PM	#281
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,361	Originally Posted by novaphile I'm guessing that they're receiving reports that it's inevitable that the delta strain will be brought to the wilds of South Australia, and we want to reduce the risk as much as possible. Again. IIRC the last lockdown was because of delta. Originally Posted by lionking A new record set by NSW, with 825 daily infections, soon to reach over 1000. Gladys is a national embarrassment. At today’s press conference saying that no state can control the virus, and that case numbers are really unimportant. Have a talk to WA, Qld, SA and Tas. And also in Vic when we control the virus in a couple of weeks. But haven't you heard? You can't control it, you just have to live with it. I fully expect NSW to just reopen completely once they hit the 70% vaccination rate regardless of how many cases are present in the community. Quote: NSW has also stopped publishing exposure sites, because, according to the Health Department, it just confuses people. I think they stopped doing that on Tuesday. I think the reason why they stopped was because most of the transmission sites were in stores and it's a bad look for the whole "we can do this without shutting everything down" argument that they were holding on to until recently. Now, of course, the message is that we have to live with the virus.
	__________________

20th August 2021, 09:26 PM	#283
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,361	I believe the report that was being cited about reopening when vaccinations hit 80% said something along those lines as well. It's just that certain parts of the government are treating it like "all restrictions can be lifted". It also wasn't expecting a large number of transmissions like we are currently seeing in NSW. I know Morrison has already threatened (or should I say "issued an implicit warning") states that they have to reopen when rates reach 70-80%, but I don't think anyone has said which 70-80%. I feel like it should be fully vaccinated, but I think the pressure to reopen will start once they hit that for first doses.
	__________________

20th August 2021, 11:08 PM	#288
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander If NSW has lost control, what should Gladys be doing instead? How would YOU fix it? Remember that locking everyone in their huts means no food or essential services for the duration. Because some people need to leave their huts to grow/make, pack, deliver and sell food. And other people have to leave their huts to run the essential services. Like hospitals, in particular. So bearing that in mind, what's the answer now? Kill and bury the infected, a la 28 Days Later? No she can’t do much more now. But she deserves to be condemned for 8 weeks of not seriously locking down. And doing so reluctantly. Even yesterday all she could come up with. Hardware stores is to “urge people to click and collect”. Lock the ******* places down. Melbourne didn’t fall apart without hardware stores. She has blood on her hands and doesn’t warrant forgiveness or understanding.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

21st August 2021, 04:26 AM	#289
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander If NSW has lost control, what should Gladys be doing instead? How would YOU fix it? I don't think it's able to be fixed, that horse bolted weeks ago, and you're right on the economic cost - it can't go on forever. Given the vaccination rate, I think she's going to have to just let it go and hope the number of vaccinated keeps the toll down to acceptable levels. I reckon if you get away with less than 1000 deaths you could call it a victory.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

21st August 2021, 04:33 AM	#290
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Jesus, that looks like some protest in Melbourne today. 4000 people and over 200 arrests.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

21st August 2021, 05:59 AM	#291
dellarte Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,578	At an anti-COVID lockdown protest, I saw a press person handing rudimentary legal flyers on A4 paper titled, "notice of conditional acceptance", to bright-eyed youths. The youths waved these notices at police and got arrested. The press person got their scoop. Cameras nearby, ready to take photos.
dellarte Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 3,578	Last edited by dellarte; 21st August 2021 at 06:11 AM.

21st August 2021, 11:54 AM	#292
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 19,021	Originally Posted by lionking I don’t fully agree. Transferring information over zoom is not always enough. With my job I’m required to decide if the workplace is a suitable and safe environment for training, with proper procedures and equipment. I can’t do that over zoom. The government (who we have a contract with) definitely wants us on the road. "Transferring information" is just a generic term for tasks that could be handled remotely. The days when everybody had to trudge down to the office just so that they can sit behind a computer terminal or answer telephones are (or should be) drawing to a close. Our environment depends on this. I agree that not every job can be done from home 100% of the time and face to face meetings may be more valuable than meetings done via face time - provided they are not held too frequently.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

21st August 2021, 02:49 PM	#293
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by lionking No she can’t do much more now. But she deserves to be condemned for 8 weeks of not seriously locking down. And doing so reluctantly. Even yesterday all she could come up with. Hardware stores is to “urge people to click and collect”. Lock the ***** places down. Melbourne didn’t fall apart without hardware stores. She has blood on her hands and doesn’t warrant forgiveness or understanding. Originally Posted by The Atheist I don't think it's able to be fixed, that horse bolted weeks ago, and you're right on the economic cost - it can't go on forever. Given the vaccination rate, I think she's going to have to just let it go and hope the number of vaccinated keeps the toll down to acceptable levels. I reckon if you get away with less than 1000 deaths you could call it a victory. So no solutions beyond retribution and "let it go". Does this mean you expect Gladys to appear at a press conference and say "Ah, ** it, NSW. You're on your own! Nothing I can do will fix this."
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

21st August 2021, 04:59 PM	#294
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Photo Contest Winner Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 40,453	Bloody idiot protesters. I'd protest the protesters but I'm not that much of an idiot.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

21st August 2021, 09:18 PM	#295
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,361	Morrison wants the states to stick to the lockdown plan even though the advice from the Doherty Institute was assuming a far lower infection rate compared to reality. It'll be interesting to see what their updated advice is, but I think there's going to be a fight between the States and the Federal Government over this.
	__________________

21st August 2021, 09:32 PM	#296
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Originally Posted by Wildy Morrison wants the states to stick to the lockdown plan even though the advice from the Doherty Institute was assuming a far lower infection rate compared to reality. It'll be interesting to see what their updated advice is, but I think there's going to be a fight between the States and the Federal Government over this. There will be a fight, but Morrison won’t win. States have regulations controlling entry, not the Feds. Parker failed in his High Court case about this. There is no way states will allow people from Sydney to enter if cases remain high. Also, as I understand it, the Doherty modelling was done on earlier versions of the virus. 80% vaccination barely slows it down. Herd immunity requires something like 95% vaccinated.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2021, 03:16 AM	#297
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So no solutions beyond retribution and "let it go". I'm not sure why you're asking me for a resolution to something I have repeatedly described as irreversible. Have a go yourself and I'll give you marks out of 10 for it. I couldn't give a flying **** what Gladys says or does, I'm commenting on what's going to happen. She is now irrelevant to the NSW Covid outbreak.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd August 2021, 03:28 AM	#298
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Originally Posted by The Atheist I couldn't give a flying **** what Gladys says or does, I'm commenting on what's going to happen. She is now irrelevant to the NSW Covid outbreak. Absolutely. She didn’t turn up for the presser today, and neither did Chant. If she had able deputies, this would not be so bad, but Hazzard? Giving up on elimination, as she obviously has, is cowardice. Child care is still open in NSW. Hardware shops are still open. Disgraceful.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2021, 07:48 AM	#299
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by The Atheist I'm not sure why you're asking me for a resolution to something I have repeatedly described as irreversible. Have a go yourself and I'll give you marks out of 10 for it. I couldn't give a flying **** what Gladys says or does, I'm commenting on what's going to happen. She is now irrelevant to the NSW Covid outbreak. Again, you are not here to offer any solutions beyond letting it run and being smarmy at politicians. "Just blame Gladys" gets those of us who are living through this nowhere. At least she is making an effort, even if it seems forlorn in the face of some irresponsible recalcitrants. Originally Posted by lionking Absolutely. She didn’t turn up for the presser today, and neither did Chant. If she had able deputies, this would not be so bad, but Hazzard? Giving up on elimination, as she obviously has, is cowardice. Child care is still open in NSW. Hardware shops are still open. Disgraceful. So what is YOUR solution? Everyone be forced to hunker down in their huts for a month, never venturing out, with absolutely zero shops open whatever? If not, what WOULD you allow? You be premier. Be specific, justify your decisions, tell us all.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd August 2021, 12:53 PM	#300
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Again, you are not here to offer any solutions beyond letting it run and being smarmy at politicians. Now you're just making things up, probably as a means of avoiding the question I put to you. Let me spell it simply, so please work through at your leisure: 1 - I have offered a solution - there isn't one, so let it rip. 2 - You haven't give me your solution to it that I requested in the post you quoted. 3 - I don't believe you will be able to find a single example of me making smarmy comments about Gladys - that's pure fantasy from inside your own head. I've only mentioned her once, to say I don't give a flying **** what she does. I await your answer to #2 with bated breath. It looks to me as though you're making deliberately contrarian posts while offering nothing yourself. How original.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd August 2021, 01:43 PM	#301
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So what is YOUR solution? Everyone be forced to hunker down in their huts for a month, never venturing out, with absolutely zero shops open whatever? If not, what WOULD you allow? You be premier. Be specific, justify your decisions, tell us all. I think I’ve said what I would do. Repeatedly. I have never said all shops should be shut, only unnecessary ones like hardware shops. Only open supermarkets and chemists. Close childcare except for definable essential worker parents. Have the same rules across the whole state until things get under control. But my main issue, which I have said many times, is that Gladys WENT TOO ******* LATE. She could do all the things I propose and I will still condemn her.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2021, 03:08 PM	#302
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by lionking I think I’ve said what I would do. Repeatedly. I have never said all shops should be shut, only unnecessary ones like hardware shops. Only open supermarkets and chemists. Close childcare except for definable essential worker parents. Have the same rules across the whole state until things get under control. I'm part way through a house build, or a renovation, or a storm has damaged the roof, and the house leaks like a sieve and has no locks. My house is currently covered by tarps and I'm praying it doesn't rain because every time it does, more of it is water damaged. My insurance company isn't caring. Am I expected to wait until COVID-normal six months from now before I can expect repairs to happen? If not,and a builder is allowed out of his hut to keep working, where do his building supplies come from? Quote: But my main issue, which I have said many times, is that Gladys WENT TOO ******* LATE. She could do all the things I propose and I will still condemn her. Stable doors and horses. You have the current situation NOW. This is square one. What do you expect premiers to do RIGHT NOW?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 22nd August 2021 at 03:12 PM.

22nd August 2021, 03:17 PM	#303
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by The Atheist Now you're just making things up, probably as a means of avoiding the question I put to you. Let me spell it simply, so please work through at your leisure: 1 - I have offered a solution - there isn't one, so let it rip. Awesome! Just let the kids die. Should be fun. Quote: 2 - You haven't give me your solution to it that I requested in the post you quoted. I'm asking you. You seem happy to pontificate from afar on how badly you think things are being done here. SO I'm asking you to produce more of your infinite wisdom to provide an actual solution. So far, that has been to run and hide from the problem. Quote: 3 - I don't believe you will be able to find a single example of me making smarmy comments about Gladys - that's pure fantasy from inside your own head. I've only mentioned her once, to say I don't give a flying **** what she does. Two sentences contradicting each other. Quote: I await your answer to #2 with bated breath. It looks to me as though you're making deliberately contrarian posts while offering nothing yourself. How original. Not smarmy at all.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd August 2021, 05:01 PM	#304
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Awesome! Just let the kids die. Should be fun. Predictably pathetic response. Given that children are currently unable to be vaccinated, do you propose keeping them in isolation forever? Also, don't let scientific fact stand in the way of your nonsensical response. Children are so unlikely to die from Covid that it can be safely ignored. With a death rate of 25 kids <18 from Covid over 12 months, kids are 20 times more likely to die from something other than Covid. Children are far more likely to be murdered by a parent than die of Covid - maybe we should stop breeding? Or maybe make murdering your kids illegal! That will work. RSV has a much higher death rate for kids than Covid, along with many other reasons for kids dying. Like I said, you're posting contrarian nonsense. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I'm asking you. Which doesn't remove the obligation for you to give your answer. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander You seem happy to pontificate from afar on how badly you think things are being done here. I've highlighted inadequacies everywhere, including NZ. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander SO I'm asking you to produce more of your infinite wisdom to provide an actual solution. So far, that has been to run and hide from the problem. Absolute proof of the kind of contrarian nonsense you're posting, because my answer of "let it rip" is the exact opposite of running and hiding. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Two sentences contradicting each other. Not smarmy at all. It looks like as well as needing a science/maths lesson you need help with English. What does "smarmy" mean? Live and learn: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/smarmy
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd August 2021, 05:13 PM	#305
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander I'm part way through a house build, or a renovation, or a storm has damaged the roof, and the house leaks like a sieve and has no locks. My house is currently covered by tarps and I'm praying it doesn't rain because every time it does, more of it is water damaged. My insurance company isn't caring. Am I expected to wait until COVID-normal six months from now before I can expect repairs to happen? If not,and a builder is allowed out of his hut to keep working, where do his building supplies come from? As we do it in Melbourne. Click and collect.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2021, 05:24 PM	#306
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by lionking As we do it in Melbourne. Click and collect. Building timber??
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd August 2021, 05:41 PM	#307
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by The Atheist Predictably pathetic response. Given that children are currently unable to be vaccinated, do you propose keeping them in isolation forever? Also, don't let scientific fact stand in the way of your nonsensical response. Children are so unlikely to die from Covid that it can be safely ignored. With a death rate of 25 kids <18 from Covid over 12 months, kids are 20 times more likely to die from something other than Covid. Children are far more likely to be murdered by a parent than die of Covid - maybe we should stop breeding? Or maybe make murdering your kids illegal! That will work. RSV has a much higher death rate for kids than Covid, along with many other reasons for kids dying. Please tell this comforting story to the parents of all the children who will die of COVID Delta. The numbers you cite are from the UK and Wales, for the much less virulent Alpha variant. So still "let the kids die". Good to know your priorities, Quote: Like I said, you're posting contrarian nonsense. Nope, I'm living through this, and you are pontificating from afar. I am not waiting for a "right" answer, I'm waiting for a "good" answer. To be clear: I'm no fan of Gladys or her LNP government. Bunch of inept wankers and squatters for the most part. Nor do I think she has done a good job on this. The problems were obvious at the start. And I agree with you and lionking: She should have gone hard and fast from the start, and bugger trying to mollify Scomo and his "pray to gawd and keep business running". But they didn't, and so here we are. Now, how do we get out of it. Alive. At least Gladys is trying something to halt the disaster and get us back on track, even if it is in a cack-handed way. If you were premier and your response was "** it, let the sick people die including the kids (what's a few more kids anyway), we can't stop it", you would be strung up from a lamppost before sunset. Quote: Which doesn't remove the obligation for you to give your answer. What obligation is that? It's not some sort of Mastermind game here, with whoever has the most right answers wins. If you have a brilliant solution or two, I can put you in touch with Gladys right away. I'm sure she would melt with gratitude and relief at your genius. Quote: I've highlighted inadequacies everywhere, including NZ. Sure. So what are your solutions to these perceived inadequacies? Whinge some more? Complaining is easy; solutions are difficult. Quote: Absolute proof of the kind of contrarian nonsense you're posting, because my answer of "let it rip" is the exact opposite of running and hiding. Running and hiding from the problem of COVID**. Throwing your hands up and saying, "let it rip". Quote: It looks like as well as needing a science/maths lesson you need help with English. Looks like you need a lesson in empathy. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd August 2021, 05:42 PM	#308
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Building timber?? Yes. Pick it up with a trailer or have it delivered. This is happening now and during other lockdowns.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2021, 05:47 PM	#309
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by lionking Yes. Pick it up with a trailer or have it delivered. This is happening now and during other lockdowns. Like this? Quote: Bunnings has announced it will close all its stores across Greater Sydney to customers and not just in hotspot LGAs. https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...2e5a94e79ed6fe Up until then, it has been one-person limit, limited people in the stores, "purposeful shopping". Which is exactly the same as supermarkets which remain open.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 22nd August 2021 at 05:49 PM.

22nd August 2021, 06:22 PM	#310
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Well, we have been successfully purchasing hardware online for months, and either collecting it contactlessly of having it delivered.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

22nd August 2021, 07:33 PM	#311
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 11,790	Originally Posted by lionking Well, we have been successfully purchasing hardware online for months, and either collecting it contactlessly of having it delivered. This doesn't work for trade builders. Only home gardeners, tinkerers and maybe painters. Scomo and Gladys have been trying to keep a semblance of the economy afloat by keeping building going, albeit under extremely restricted rules. This has affected myself particularly. Our house reno was supposed to be finished in June/July. It is still not done. Numerous lockdowns, restrictions, travel limits, and delivery delays have added months and tens of thousands of dollars to our costs (and our builders - timber prices have skyrocketed). And we still haven't got a useful house to live in. Our dining room was supposed to be a campsite kitchen for a month while the new one was built. Six months later...no change yet. Also, how do the click-and-collect operations work without employees travelling to the warehouses (some by public transport) to do the lift-and-load work? Ditto supermarkets and pharmacies. And further back, how do the products get made, packaged and shipped to stores? By people who have to go to work together necessarily. You can't run a hospital, farm, factory or abattoir via Zoom. So just "shutting down everything but essentials" means asking first "What is essential?" It's sure a lot more than supermarkets and pharmacies.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 22nd August 2021 at 07:39 PM.

22nd August 2021, 07:46 PM	#312
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 76,793	I went to Belconnen Mall on the weekend because my work shoes died and I wanted to see if there was anywhere I could get new shoes. There isn't. Pretty much the only places that are open right now are supermarkets, food outlets and phone repairs.
	__________________ Слава Україні Героям слава

22nd August 2021, 08:04 PM	#313
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Please tell this comforting story to the parents of all the children who will die of COVID Delta. The numbers you cite are from the UK and Wales, for the much less virulent Alpha variant. Oh dear, I was right about the dictionary. Go check the different between "more infectious" and "more virulent". Delta is no more dangerous than the original. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander So still "let the kids die". Good to know your priorities, Have you banned riding bicycles, climbing trees and all the other things killing more children than Covid? Like I said, utterly pathetic. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Now, how do we get out of it. Alive. Comments like that are half the problem - Covid isn't Captain Trips, Ebola or even MERS. It's been proven to have a fatality rate 10 times more than influenza - not enough to create the climate of fear you're encouraging. With over 50s vaccinated, the obvious and sensible answer is to allow normality to recommence. And I do love the irony that in all of your crying about people dying you're ignoring the fact that lockdowns kill people as well. Lack of medical care, suicide and homicide are just three of the issues you're happy to ignore because you are personally scared ******. Originally Posted by Norman Alexander** If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. No, the problem is needless fearmongering. People die every day, I'd suggest you learn to live with that unfortunate fact, or maybe join a church.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd August 2021, 11:21 PM	#314
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 49,871	Morrison is acting tough again, insisting that states open up at 70% and 80% vaccination rates, regardless of how many infections are in the community. Qld and WA quickly rejected this. Gladys, of course, insisted on lecturing other states that they would all have high infections when borders opened, courtesy of NSW. Morrison cannot win a war with the states over borders unless he brings the army in. Is he that stupid? If anyone wants to see the result of opening up without reducing infections, have a look at Israel. 80% vaccinated, let it rip, and now 7000 cases a day. NSW and other states stupid enough to let large numbers of NSW residents in, will suffer the same fate.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

23rd August 2021, 02:45 AM	#315
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31,885	Originally Posted by lionking If anyone wants to see the result of opening up without reducing infections, have a look at Israel. 80% vaccinated, let it rip, and now 7000 cases a day. NSW and other states stupid enough to let large numbers of NSW residents in, will suffer the same fate. Israel looks like an anomaly - nobody can figure out quite what's gone wrong there. Germany - 70% vaccination rate, and deaths down to 20 a day. UK - 70%, and deaths ~70 a day (almost exactly the same as seasonal 'flu) Then there are Hungary & Czech Republic, who have had low vaccine rates but very high infections, where the outbreak has almost disappeared. I'd go along with a 70% vaccination rate as the level where you should be opening up.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.