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Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

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Old 9th March 2022, 07:43 AM   #241
Blue Mountain
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Notes from the Field: A Novel Coronavirus Genome Identified in a Cluster of Pneumonia Cases — Wuhan, China 2019−2020
https://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/articl...e-4253b453d10c

"On January 3, 2020, the first complete genome of the novel β genus coronaviruses (2019-nCoVs) was identified in samples of bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BALF) from a patient from Wuhan by scientists of the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) through a combination of Sanger sequencing, Illumina sequencing, and nanopore sequencing. Three distinct strains have been identified, the virus has been designated as 2019-nCoV, and the disease has been subsequently named novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia (NCIP)."

Can you not see how unscientific this is? First there is no reason to suspect a novel virus - 44 cases of pneumonia without clear indications of something unusual about these 44 cases doesn't make a "cluster"
This is getting very tiresome. 44 cases of pneumonia in patients where the cause is unknown or is not readily determined is the very definition of a cluster!

Quote:
and how do you identify any particular virus in bronchoalveolar lavage samples from a single patient?
It's right there in quote! "... through a combination of Sanger sequencing, Illumina sequencing, and nanopore sequencing." Yes, the sequence was obtained from samples taken from a single patient. Now it sounds like a pretty small sample size, but the same note goes on to say:

Originally Posted by Tan, Wu, et al
Several complete genome sequences of 2019-nCoVs were successfully obtained and released recently via www.gisaid.org to provide a first look at the molecular characteristics of this emerging pathogen, and all related information has also been reported to the World Health Organization (WHO). Several rapid and sensitive detection tests have been developed by China CDC and will be applied to the prevention and control of this 2019-nCoV outbreak.
The phrase "Several rapid and sensitive detection tests have been developed" implies the scientists later tested additional individuals and found the same virus present in them.

Quote:
It is absurd in the extreme. There are no controlled experiments going on here in the alleged isolation of the virus. Where are the samples from the patients allegedly not suffering infection?
How do you know there was no "controlled experiment" here? And just what do you mean by "controlled experiment"?

Quote:
The whole problem with virology is that they don't take samples from non-infected people and compare them and they add loads of stuff to their cultures which obviously can have an effect on the organisms they're testing.
And you know this how? Is it from some idiot bloviating in a video, or have you actually done a deep study on virology and determined this is the case?

Quote:
If you can be bothered Sam Bailey exposes this lack of controlled experiment in her latest video.
https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/th...-about-viruses
No, I won't be bothered. I do not do argumentum ad videoæ. Instead, I recommend you go over to Reddit and spend some time reading posts in Tales from Tech Support (my specialty) or Just Rolled into the Shop, to see what happens when clueless people attempt to work on things they aren't skilled in.
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:13 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Until someone provides evidence for those 44 patients with pneumonia in Wuhan to be regarded as a "cluster" - and I would have thought someone among all you apologists of the mainstream narrative would have done it by now - the suspicion of a "novel" virus is unscientific.
A: We have proof that John Doe is the killer here on this video.
B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video!
A: The victim's blood has been found on Doe's clothing.
B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video!
A: The murder weapon was found in Doe's car.
B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video!
A: Doe has confessed.
B: Prove that's not a doppleganger in that video!
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:21 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Nope in response to my claim that I have shown that suspicion of a novel virus is unscientific.

Yes I have.
Nope.
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:26 AM   #244
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The SARS-CoV-2 has been isolated, sequenced, and demonstrated to cause the illness COVID-19. Multiple times. Posters denying this are denying reality.
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Old 9th March 2022, 11:53 AM   #245
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x-ray or cryo, the structures can't be beat

Many of the proteins that are part of this virus have been purified and their structures solved, a point that I have made before. There is a structure of the main protease bound to the key ingredient of Paxlovid, for example.

"Abstract
The unprecedented scale of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic has catalyzed an intense effort of the global scientific community to unravel different aspects of the disease in a short time. One of the crucial aspects of these developments is the determination of more than three hundred experimental structures of SARS-CoV-2 proteins in the last few months. These include structures of viral non-structural, structural, and accessory proteins and their complexes determined by either X-ray diffraction or cryo-electron microscopy. These structures elucidate the intricate working of different components of the viral machinery at the atomic level during different steps of the viral life cycle, including attachment to the host cell, viral genome replication and transcription, and genome packaging and assembly of the virion. Some of these proteins are also potential targets for drug development against the disease. In this review, we discuss important structural features of different SARS-CoV-2 proteins with their function, and their potential as a target for therapeutic interventions." ScienceDirect
Arya R. et al., Journal of Molecular Biology Volume 433, Issue 2, 22 January 2021, 166725.
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Old 9th March 2022, 12:30 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Many of the proteins that are part of this virus have been purified and their structures solved, a point that I have made before. There is a structure of the main protease bound to the key ingredient of Paxlovid, for example.

(respectful snip)

ScienceDirect
Arya R. et al., Journal of Molecular Biology Volume 433, Issue 2, 22 January 2021, 166725.
Thanks for the input, Chris, but in Petra's mind a random YouTuber or internet crank is just so much more reliable than a group of scientists who've spent their lives working on this stuff and get it published in peer-reviewed journals.
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Old 9th March 2022, 01:43 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
A path was followed to determine that a novel virus emerged that the world needed to be turned upside down for and I'm showing that that path is unscientific. It started, unscientifically, with an alleged "cluster" of 44 patients. Where did it go from there?
Even if you grant that the cluster is not what it was purported to be, and/or was dealt with unscientifically, there is still a vast amount of other, later evidence supporting the existence of the novel coronavirus, which is the evidence you are ignoring.

Don't ignore evidence; it is unscientific, especially when the amount of evidence is vast.
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Old 9th March 2022, 02:14 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
So the Christine Massey cited by Petra and her fellow travelers is neither a microbiologist nor a psychologist, but a soi-disant biostatistician and inveterate nutjob in the tradition of General Jack T Ripper.

I apologize for my error.
And I apologise for mine too. Its even worse than I thought - Christine Massey is a Flake bar who has no qualifications at all!
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Old 9th March 2022, 03:08 PM   #249
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Just stopped into this thread to see where it's gone...and...

Okay...

The claim now is that COVID-19 doesn't exist? Who can believe this in 2022? I could see if this was 1894, but we have microscopes, and DNA/RNA sequencing, and all kinds of medical advances which make it possible not only to identify viruses, but photograph them - in color - and dissect them to understand the makeup of their structures, and we can sequence them.

This isn't even news any more.

The idea that medical information is faked or suppressed is comical. Just look at the last two years. EVERY counter-claim about COVID-19 and alternate treatments has been shut down like the sad clown-show it is.

The COVID CTists aren't even trying any more. They're as bad as the Bigfoot crowd now.

The thing I love most is this forum has a science board where the virus thread is a productive source for useful information thanks to those who post there being qualified medical professional, and scientist. I don't post in that thread because I have nothing intelligent to add. Here I'm a reformed CTist doing my time and penance point calling current CTists on their BS. And ALL of the COVID-19 CTs are BS, and really pedestrian, kindergarten-level CTs at that.
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Old 9th March 2022, 03:19 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The claim now is that COVID-19 doesn't exist?

The claim now seems to be that there shouldn’t be any evidence that COVID-19 exists because investigating the cause of a cluster of unexplained cases of pneumonia was “unscientific”.
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Old 9th March 2022, 04:44 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Just stopped into this thread to see where it's gone...and...

Okay...

The claim now is that COVID-19 doesn't exist? Who can believe this in 2022? I could see if this was 1894, but we have microscopes, and DNA/RNA sequencing, and all kinds of medical advances which make it possible not only to identify viruses, but photograph them - in color - and dissect them to understand the makeup of their structures, and we can sequence them.

(respectful snip)
With regards to the highlighted, a couple of people who wrote a paper titled The COVID-19 Fraud & War on Humanity [pdf]. One of the authors is a qualified medical doctor who's been practicing in New Zealand for over twenty years. The other has a Ph.D. in English.

The paper claims viruses don't exist, any genomic sequencing is suspect due to massive contamination (and because viruses don't exist,) PCR can't be used to identify viruses (because they don't exist!) and electron microphotographs are merely artists' impressions.
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Old 9th March 2022, 04:45 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
The claim now seems to be that there shouldn’t be any evidence that COVID-19 exists because investigating the cause of a cluster of unexplained cases of pneumonia was “unscientific”.
Whoa, Nellie, hold your horses! There wasn't even a cluster!
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Old 9th March 2022, 06:55 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
With regards to the highlighted, a couple of people who wrote a paper titled The COVID-19 Fraud & War on Humanity [pdf]. One of the authors is a qualified medical doctor who's been practicing in New Zealand for over twenty years. The other has a Ph.D. in English.

The paper claims viruses don't exist, any genomic sequencing is suspect due to massive contamination (and because viruses don't exist,) PCR can't be used to identify viruses (because they don't exist!) and electron microphotographs are merely artists' impressions.
Yeah. but Mark Bailey and John Bevan-Smith are both nutcases
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Old 9th March 2022, 08:20 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah. but Mark Bailey and John Bevan-Smith are both nutcases
The common clay of the new West?
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Old 9th March 2022, 09:43 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Even if you grant that the cluster is not what it was purported to be, and/or was dealt with unscientifically, there is still a vast amount of other, later evidence supporting the existence of the novel coronavirus, which is the evidence you are ignoring.
The mere fact that vaccines were developed which drastically reduced cases of severe illness and death in the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated is conclusive proof that both the virus, and the disease it produces, exist. That anyone could fool themselves into a position where they are obliged to deny such simple and incontrovertible facts beggars belief.
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Old 9th March 2022, 10:29 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
With regards to the highlighted, a couple of people who wrote a paper titled The COVID-19 Fraud & War on Humanity [pdf]. One of the authors is a qualified medical doctor who's been practicing in New Zealand for over twenty years. The other has a Ph.D. in English.

The paper claims viruses don't exist, any genomic sequencing is suspect due to massive contamination (and because viruses don't exist,) PCR can't be used to identify viruses (because they don't exist!) and electron microphotographs are merely artists' impressions.
That's just embarrassing on every level.

And who the hell gets a Ph.D. in English? I'm embarrassed I have an AA in English because I got it by accident.
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Old 10th March 2022, 12:24 AM   #257
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When your ability to think independently is questioned, how NOT to answer:

Originally Posted by Purple Pangolin View Post
Petra could you please, in your own words, explain the steps of the scientific method?
Originally Posted by Petra View Post
These are the words of someone else to describe the scientific method in general.

<snip of someone else's words>

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Old 10th March 2022, 01:50 AM   #258
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Natural Health exercise for them in need of it:

Fail


Quote:
Story at-a-glance

Facebook has admitted in a court of law that its fact checkers are not asserting facts but, rather, First Amendment-protected opinions
Steve Kirsch, founder of the COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund, recorded a phone call with a fact checker from PolitiFact, showing just how ignorant the fact checker is about the facts, and how unwilling she is to look at the data
Edited by jimbob:  Rule 4

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...rid=1429931863

Last edited by jimbob; 10th March 2022 at 04:12 AM.
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Old 10th March 2022, 01:52 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post

I follow the debunking trail, I have no interest in how many thousands of papers have been produced. I only "trust" when I'm forced to such as going into surgery. Otherwise, I only accept information as given because I feel I have no reason to doubt it or I'm not really bothered. When I am bothered I don't "trust" because of numbers of people saying something, I follow the debunking trail because I think that's a far better method than relying on "scientific consensus" or similar. Power influences everything and it's well-known that Big Pharma influences scientific studies - if you don't get that you are very, very naive. Even when I believe the scientific consensus I still follow the debunking trail because I think we must always look at both sides.

Microbiologist, Christine Massey, has organised a FOI campaign to health authorities and governments about isolation of the virus and according to the specified criteria, all health authorities and governments have admitted they are not in possession of such proof of isolation. In that case, what needs to happen is that those supporting the mainstream narrative must argue that isolation according to the specified criteria is not required for isolation to occur. No one has done that.
https://truthcomestolight.com/the-no...istine-massey/
Going back to this claim, another thought struck me, which was this: Petra claims to be following the debunking trail, right? Petra was the one who introduced this FOI request claim into the debate. Petra further claimed that no-one had given a proper answer to these requests, and that none of the authorities contacted were in possession of such proof of isolation.
The later claim from Petra, that she was unaware of the response from Sinai that I quoted, shows she had not, in fact, 'followed the debunking trail' at all. In actual fact, she had not read the responses to the FOI requests herself at all, and consequently was not aware that there had been a specific and factual response, and that the response explained clearly why the information requested was not available.
Moreover, the linked interview with Massey grievously misrepresents the responses that were received, and omits the fact that Massey was asked to clarify her request, but failed to do so.
In summary, then, Petra has gullibly and unquestioningly swallowed the dishonest narrative spun by Massey, and not actually checked it at all- and then arrived on this site to insist the complete opposite.
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Old 10th March 2022, 02:09 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Mercola is a lying liar who lies.
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Old 10th March 2022, 02:17 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Mercola is a lying liar who lies.
The VAERS database is a valuable resource when used as intended, with a full understanding of its limitations. It's only when the likes of Mercola deliberately misinterpret and misrepresent it that Factcheckers need to point out that's what they're doing.
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Old 10th March 2022, 03:32 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
NOW, your post makes sense.
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Old 10th March 2022, 04:38 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Fail
Agreed!
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Old 10th March 2022, 08:14 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Fail
Finally, Bubba says in his own words what he thinks about a claim.
Well done, Bubba! Excellent progress!
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Old 11th March 2022, 12:03 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
The whole problem with virology is that they don't take samples from non-infected people and compare them and they add loads of stuff to their cultures which obviously can have an effect on the organisms they're testing.
The whole problem with ignorance is how easily it fools itself - but no one with subject matter knowledge.

Over 20,000 healthy people sampled just for this one study that identified 142,000 types of viruses in our bellies.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


That said, the video is, IMHO, an interesting glimpse into future virological studies (and everything related).
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Old 11th March 2022, 01:10 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
Notes from the Field: A Novel Coronavirus Genome Identified in a Cluster of Pneumonia Cases — Wuhan, China 2019−2020
https://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/articl...e-4253b453d10c

"On January 3, 2020, the first complete genome of the novel β genus coronaviruses (2019-nCoVs) was identified in samples of bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BALF) from a patient from Wuhan by scientists of the National Institute of Viral Disease Control and Prevention (IVDC) through a combination of Sanger sequencing, Illumina sequencing, and nanopore sequencing. Three distinct strains have been identified, the virus has been designated as 2019-nCoV, and the disease has been subsequently named novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia (NCIP)."

Can you not see how unscientific this is? First there is no reason to suspect a novel virus - 44 cases of pneumonia without clear indications of something unusual about these 44 cases doesn't make a "cluster" and how do you identify any particular virus in bronchoalveolar lavage samples from a single patient? It is absurd in the extreme. There are no controlled experiments going on here in the alleged isolation of the virus. Where are the samples from the patients allegedly not suffering infection?

The whole problem with virology is that they don't take samples from non-infected people and compare them and they add loads of stuff to their cultures which obviously can have an effect on the organisms they're testing.

If you can be bothered Sam Bailey exposes this lack of controlled experiment in her latest video.
https://odysee.com/@drsambailey:c/th...bout-viruses:a
I have told you repeatedly that there are unique features of covid pneumonia that make it unusual and thus would cause the clinicians to identify a cluster of unusual pneumonias. Another alert would be if there was evidence of person to person transmission e.g. two or more cases in a household.

Also note they reported three strains which means they the went and isolated it from two more patients before thinking they really had a novel coronavirus causing the pneumonia, they did not report on the first isolate, but replicated the findings first.
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Old 11th March 2022, 01:22 AM   #267
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Actually I think Petra's claim is no viruses exist.

I now realise that the discussion is pointless if Petra denies the existence of viruses as a concept thenno evidence that there is a novel coronavirus is sufficient, as the very existence of viruses is denied.

It is pretty easy to isolate pure virus particles for SARS-CoV-2. It grows easily in cell culture then you can just do density gradient centrifugation, or use an antibody technique to get pure virus particles. You can then do EM, or PCR or antibody tests to check the identity. You can infect animals or tissue culture or cell culture, and look at the damage done. The one thing you can't actually do is see it with the naked eye.
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Old 11th March 2022, 01:55 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Actually I think Petra's claim is no viruses exist.

I now realise that the discussion is pointless if Petra denies the existence of viruses as a concept thenno evidence that there is a novel coronavirus is sufficient, as the very existence of viruses is denied.

It is pretty easy to isolate pure virus particles for SARS-CoV-2. It grows easily in cell culture then you can just do density gradient centrifugation, or use an antibody technique to get pure virus particles. You can then do EM, or PCR or antibody tests to check the identity. You can infect animals or tissue culture or cell culture, and look at the damage done. The one thing you can't actually do is see it with the naked eye.
And that, for Petra, is the problem. If you add that to her (frankly implausible) anecdotal claim that no-one she knows has had Covid, plus her unhealthy distrust of expertise, her denial of an entire branch of science becomes more understandable.
Not excusable, note- just understandable. Petra only believes her own interpretation of what she sees with her own eyes. If you are essentially a solipsist, these kinds of beliefs are tenable: delusional and self-centred, but tenable. All it takes is blinkers, basically.
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Old 12th March 2022, 12:49 AM   #269
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Why is anyone still arguing this? We won. Science and people getting vaccinated ended the pandemic. I came to this realization when I saw what was left of the stupid ass trucker convoy stuck in traffic on the Outter Loop of the Washington Beltway this afternoon. The deniers and complainers don't matter anymore; they aren't important (not like they ever were). We won and the antivaxxers and anti maskers just don't matter anymore.

There will still be people getting Covid but most of them have it coming and are no loss to those of us who won. We (people who got vaccinated and wore masks) will be fine and those who die of Covid now were dead weight when they were alive and no loss to the rest of us when they die.
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Old 12th March 2022, 02:14 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Why is anyone still arguing this? We won. Science and people getting vaccinated ended the pandemic. I came to this realization when I saw what was left of the stupid ass trucker convoy stuck in traffic on the Outter Loop of the Washington Beltway this afternoon. The deniers and complainers don't matter anymore; they aren't important (not like they ever were). We won and the antivaxxers and anti maskers just don't matter anymore.

There will still be people getting Covid but most of them have it coming and are no loss to those of us who won. We (people who got vaccinated and wore masks) will be fine and those who die of Covid now were dead weight when they were alive and no loss to the rest of us when they die.
In terms of saving lives and reducing illness, yes, agreed, we did win.
However, the battle may be won, but the war is far from over.
For a start, the disinformationists like Mercola and RFK Jr are still making a very profitable living peddling their lies. Moreover, belief in these lies is still rife among the conspiracy theorists who pay them and consume their propaganda. The ideas that science is useful, that the majority of scientists are not either psychopaths or willing accomplices to genocide, and that critical thinking skills and fact-checking are good and necessary things, have yet to take root among the people that need these ideas the most.
Another point is that the hardcore of these cultists will simply retreat further into their delusional paranoia. This may well lead to more incidents of shootings, threats of violence, vandalism and the like, out of extremism and frustration that none of their predictions came true and the majority of the populace have not 'woken up' as they imagined they would. This is akin to Manson attempting to trigger the race war he predicted would start. It didn't start quickly enough for him, so he decided to give it a murderous nudge. Some of those calling for violent revolution, a la Childlike Empress, may resolve to take matters into their own hands in a similar manner.
Not our actual CE, of course: that would mean actually getting out of his armchair, and that's not going to happen. No, someone like CE, but who is actually prepared to act on their beliefs.
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Old 12th March 2022, 09:09 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
In terms of saving lives and reducing illness, yes, agreed, we did win.
However, the battle may be won, but the war is far from over.
For a start, the disinformationists like Mercola and RFK Jr are still making a very profitable living peddling their lies. Moreover, belief in these lies is still rife among the conspiracy theorists who pay them and consume their propaganda. The ideas that science is useful, that the majority of scientists are not either psychopaths or willing accomplices to genocide, and that critical thinking skills and fact-checking are good and necessary things, have yet to take root among the people that need these ideas the most.
Another point is that the hardcore of these cultists will simply retreat further into their delusional paranoia. This may well lead to more incidents of shootings, threats of violence, vandalism and the like, out of extremism and frustration that none of their predictions came true and the majority of the populace have not 'woken up' as they imagined they would. This is akin to Manson attempting to trigger the race war he predicted would start. It didn't start quickly enough for him, so he decided to give it a murderous nudge. Some of those calling for violent revolution, a la Childlike Empress, may resolve to take matters into their own hands in a similar manner.
Not our actual CE, of course: that would mean actually getting out of his armchair, and that's not going to happen. No, someone like CE, but who is actually prepared to act on their beliefs.
This also provides a dangerous foundation. At some point another disease will arise and if this one is for more dangerous than Covid millions will die based on the doubt and stupidity created against Covid being passed on to this new illness.
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Old 12th March 2022, 12:00 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Petra View Post
No I'm not forgetting my argument at all. The whole thing falls over at the first step because no evidence is provided for suspicion of a "novel" virus.
You're lying again.
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Old 12th March 2022, 02:36 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
In terms of saving lives and reducing illness, yes, agreed, we did win.
However, the battle may be won, but the war is far from over.
For a start, the disinformationists like Mercola and RFK Jr are still making a very profitable living peddling their lies. Moreover, belief in these lies is still rife among the conspiracy theorists who pay them and consume their propaganda. The ideas that science is useful, that the majority of scientists are not either psychopaths or willing accomplices to genocide, and that critical thinking skills and fact-checking are good and necessary things, have yet to take root among the people that need these ideas the most.
Another point is that the hardcore of these cultists will simply retreat further into their delusional paranoia. This may well lead to more incidents of shootings, threats of violence, vandalism and the like, out of extremism and frustration that none of their predictions came true and the majority of the populace have not 'woken up' as they imagined they would. This is akin to Manson attempting to trigger the race war he predicted would start. It didn't start quickly enough for him, so he decided to give it a murderous nudge. Some of those calling for violent revolution, a la Childlike Empress, may resolve to take matters into their own hands in a similar manner.
Not our actual CE, of course: that would mean actually getting out of his armchair, and that's not going to happen. No, someone like CE, but who is actually prepared to act on their beliefs.
Who cares? We have a vaccine. We have shots in arms of the people we need. Everyone else doesn't matter. If you're not vaccinated, you're not valuable. It's better for the rest of us if you just get Covid and die. Those who would care if you died are people we would do better without. There's a solution to the Covid problem in front of you. Take it. If you don't, you don't matter and we're better off without you.
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Old 12th March 2022, 10:01 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Who cares? We have a vaccine. We have shots in arms of the people we need. Everyone else doesn't matter. If you're not vaccinated, you're not valuable. It's better for the rest of us if you just get Covid and die. Those who would care if you died are people we would do better without. There's a solution to the Covid problem in front of you. Take it. If you don't, you don't matter and we're better off without you.
With all due respect, I think that's a rather narrow view of the problem.
The spread of disinformation is not just an issue for the small numbers of Covid deniers: it has widespread consequences for society. Look at the January 6th Capitol riot, for example. Disinformation is directly threatening democracy.
As another example, in my home town in the UK, a public defibrillator has been smashed with hammers, twice, because some local conspiracy theorists think it's something to do with 5G. This kind of action is literally life-threatening. As another example, there are increasing numbers of incidents in which NHS workers have been harassed, abused and threatened by anti-vaxxers. Do you think this is going to stop as the pandemic recedes? I doubt it.
Another point: As we know, belief in one conspiracy theory often leads to others. If we do not, as a society, take action to instil better critical thinking skills in our populations, the gateway effect of CTs will lead those believers into whatever madness comes next, and the attendant problematic consequences for the community will continue.
I also want to take issue with your frankly callous attitude to the unvaccinated. The idea that human beings only deserve to live if society considers them to be 'valuable', and that if they fail that arbitrary test they deserve to die, is repugnant. Indeed, this is bordering on eugenics. No, mate: human life is equally valuable, regardless of individual beliefs. Human rights are universal, not subject to means testing. Any avoidable death is a tragedy, whether it results from poor decision-making or not. These deaths are not to be celebrated: they should be mourned, and we should be trying to prevent more, not shrugging our shoulders and saying 'we're better off without you'.
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Old 13th March 2022, 04:12 AM   #275
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Stay away from hospitals, official treatment and vaccinations.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/
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Old 13th March 2022, 04:38 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Stay away from hospitals, official treatment and vaccinations.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Better: stay away from your ******** misinformation.
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Old 13th March 2022, 04:41 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Stay away from hospitals, official treatment and vaccinations.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/
Profit-driven liars, Emre, that's who those people are.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-...-charge-2021-9
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Old 13th March 2022, 04:56 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Profit-driven liars, Emre, that's who those people are.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-...-charge-2021-9
Possibly, perhaps, maybe, could be the persons who promote this crap on discussion forums are also "profit driven" in some way. I don't know really....
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Old 13th March 2022, 04:58 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Possibly, perhaps, maybe, could be the persons who promote this crap on discussion forums are also "profit driven" in some way. I don't know really....
Prophet driven?
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Old 13th March 2022, 05:00 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Prophet driven?
That too.
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