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27th May 2011, 08:46 AM | #241 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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28th May 2011, 07:22 AM | #242 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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Funny how Clayton abandoned this thread.
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28th May 2011, 09:26 AM | #243 |
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I might've said this before. But if I have, it bears repeating.
Know what I hate about this particular conspiracy theory? It's perhaps the only conspiracy theory that can actually kill people. I usually spend my forum time arguing against 9/11 Truthers. They're offensive, disrespectful, loudmouthed, stupid, annoying, cultlike oafs who destroy their own lives to satisfy their needs for attention. But they aren't dangerous in the life-or-death sense of the word. The worst I've seen them to is convince gullible people to abandon friends and families so they can run off and do Twoof crap. Which is bad, sure, but they still have their lives. JFK and moon hoax CTs are even less harmful. But these vaccine CT's. No. These vaccine CT's...they are what make me wish there weren't laws against nonlethal assault & battery. They are what make me question the otherwise unquestionable First Amendment. These cancerous tumors on society suck gullible people into their fold, using lies, weasel-words, and Twoofisms...they suck people in, and then they kill them and their children. I don't know what kind of body count the Vaccines-Cause-Autism CT has racked up over the years, but I have a feeling it's higher than the death toll of every other conspiracy theory combined. These people make me sick. Whenever I hear the phrase "faith in humanity" I declare that I am an atheist. What a bunch of ****. |
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http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo |
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28th May 2011, 10:05 AM | #244 |
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Maybe you should wake up and view the tip of the iceberg.
Or do you think all of these incidents are imagined? Seizures, convulsions & vaccines http://www.whale.to/vaccines/seizures.html
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I have a friend who can't get a flu shot or a tetanus shot because of the reaction. She's 40. What happens to a toddler or younger baby when he or she gets a REACTION? What happens when a baby has an unobserved seizure?
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28th May 2011, 10:29 AM | #245 |
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Oh man, I so hear you. Think of it: what's just about the worst thing in the whole world you can call someone, worse than murderer, rapist, Hitler-lover, or anything else? Baby killer, right? And yet, here we are, talking about people who are fully prepared to put millions of babies' lives at risk. And for what, really? To satisfy their twisted, perverse need to feel superior, to tell themselves they know something the rest of us don't, by talking smugly and confidently about a subject they don't even being to remotely understand.
When I think of someone like Jenny McCarthy, and how by the cold light of logic, reason, and mathematics the world would quite literally be better off if she were dead (or, as a less violent alternative, would at least just shut her impossibly stupid mouth), it may make me rather queasy and uncomfortable to harbor such thoughts. But I cannot argue with the underlying truth of the situation. Some people want to be stupid. OK I get it. So long as the only victims of their willful stupidity are themselves, I say go for it, knock yourself out, whatever gets you through the day and all that. But when your stupidity endangers lives -- especially those of babies and children who have no choice in the matter -- well, all I can say is that I cannot fathom how such a person can live with themselves. |
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28th May 2011, 10:40 AM | #246 |
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http://www.whale.to/vaccines/seizures.html
In case you missed it the people discussed are victims.
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28th May 2011, 11:27 AM | #247 |
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I'm not sure why you think what you've posted is any sort of reply. It appears to consist primarily of links to unverified anecdotes in which claims are made that various forms of health problems followed the administration of a vaccination -- with little proof that the former caused the latter. None of it provides even a single atom of proof that vaccines cause autism, which after all is the topic of this thread.
I don't know what your motivation is for doing something like this -- indeed, as I stated in my previous post, I can't even understand why anyone would do this. All I can say is that to me, this behavior is indistinguishable from someone who has no interest in determining or discussing the truth; they simply want to tell themselves they're winning an argument. The problem is, such activity is essentially the same as playing a game in which no one else is participating -- and still losing very badly. |
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28th May 2011, 11:40 AM | #248 |
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And still he ignores Wakefield's vaccine patent in favour of unverified anecdotes and lies...........
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28th May 2011, 11:56 AM | #249 |
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I think it's a exercise in simply wanting to believe something, and then contriving a reason for doing so. Think of it: The original presumed connection between autism and vaccines was based on the whole themiserol thing, and the similarities between the symptoms of mercury poisoning and autism. So they phase out themiserol, but instead of going down autism diagnosis rates continue to rise (probably because we're just better at recognizing the symptoms, although some consider the jury still out on that one). But instead of accepting that vaccines never had anything to do with autism, the anti-vaxers now seem to be focusing on some hypothetical process in which vaccines damage the immune system, thus resulting in autism -- as if autism were the result of immunodeficiency, a link for which I've seen zero evidence.
For some people, it seems to come down to this: they know vaccines cause autism, so it doesn't really matter what the data does -- or doesn't -- show. And based on that, they're prepared to put millions of babies at risk. The ignorant and deluded are to be pitied; but those who insist upon remaining willfully so, at the potential expense of innocent young lives, are reprehensible beyond expression. |
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29th May 2011, 01:22 AM | #250 |
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29th May 2011, 03:10 PM | #251 |
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[quote]
So because people were not questioning the vaccine but the themiserol. When the themiserol was eliminated the vaccine gets a pass? Good thinking.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/seizures.html Maybe you should take the time to read all of those links. You think those people have some nefarious agenda?
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You do realize that reconvened to re-examine the rate of febrile convulsions means that a significant number of events are needed to freaking reconvene anything.
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http://www.whale.to/vaccine/feds9.html
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Does this mean that the advisory was ignored?
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29th May 2011, 03:27 PM | #252 |
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"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win." |
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29th May 2011, 03:42 PM | #253 |
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29th May 2011, 03:59 PM | #254 |
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www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
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29th May 2011, 05:48 PM | #255 |
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Quote:
At the time of writing, 79 365 cases of preventable illnesses, of which 727 resulted in deaths. This is contrasted with 0 cases of autism found to have been caused by vaccination. |
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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29th May 2011, 05:56 PM | #256 |
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Actually, it's quite good thinking, since there's no evidence that vaccines cause autism, and no reason to believe they even can once you've eliminated the thermiserol angle (which, although totally unproven, at least was quasi-plausible). So yes, they get a total pass unless someone can suggest why they shouldn't -- which thus far no one has. Don't forget, it's up to the anti-vax folks to prove the link to autism, not up to everyone else to disprove it.
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But that's not what this thread's about, it's about whether or not vaccines cause autism. So trying to turn the argument into "but vaccines have some side effects" is a strawman so huge you could hide the Trojan army in it. This is the point at which it becomes rather difficult to show any respect at all to your argument. The subject of this thread is whether or not vaccines cause autism. If you have evidence that it does, present it. If you don't, admit such, rather than attempting to save a bit of face by shifting the goalposts. |
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29th May 2011, 06:07 PM | #257 |
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29th May 2011, 06:14 PM | #258 |
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Quote:
WTF Helmets causing health problems to young children, serious health problems, is not conspiracy theory, it's reality. WTF Dogs causing health problems to young children, serious health problems, is not conspiracy theory, it's reality. WTF Stairs causing health problems to young children, serious health problems, is not conspiracy theory, it's reality. WTF Toys causing health problems to young children, serious health problems, is not conspiracy theory, it's reality. Your point?
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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29th May 2011, 06:20 PM | #259 |
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29th May 2011, 07:00 PM | #260 |
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www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- |
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29th May 2011, 08:34 PM | #261 |
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Children are born autistic, or on the autism spectrum, and subtle signs are there months before MMR vaccination takes place. Less subtle signs tend to show up around the time the MMR vaccination takes place, that doesn't mean the MMR vaccine has any connection to autism.
As for the vaccinations against HPV, my daughter got them, and like the vast majority of young women, she had no side effects whatsoever. Humanity has eradicated one disease from the human population so far, small pox, due mostly to a vaccination program. We are so close to doing the same with other deadly diseases like polio, and we were getting there with measles, until this idiocy. |
29th May 2011, 09:57 PM | #262 |
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The idiocy is the belief that children, after what, 600,000 years are now becoming autistic because they are genetically disposed to. Inherited brain dysfunction. That's nutso. World wide inherited autism.
What do kids with autism have in common? Start with that and get back to planet Earth? Show me a study that produces 1000 autistic children who were never vaccinated. I'm hooked, this forum makes me feel like Mike Judge. |
30th May 2011, 12:52 AM | #263 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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Autism has always been with us. The only reason there seems to be an increase now is that they broadened the diagnostic symptoms for autism to the point where just about anyone with any "weirdness" to them now qualifies.
But how many kids get diagnosed as "mentally retarded" now? Since that almost never happens anymore I declare that vaccines have eliminated it. |
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30th May 2011, 04:03 AM | #264 |
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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30th May 2011, 05:33 AM | #265 |
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a) the study is flawed somehow, or b) that all right, so vaccines aren't the only thing that causes autism. Although admittedly that would be some sort of progress. Edit: but as vaccines do not cause autism, I suspect I already know what the statistics, when presented to you, will show. |
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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30th May 2011, 06:48 AM | #266 |
Illuminator
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The idiocy is the belief that children after what, 600,000 years are now developing ADD because they are genetically disposed to. Inherited brain dysfunction. That's nutso. World wide inherited ADD.
You don't see the flaw at all in your logic?
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30th May 2011, 06:52 AM | #267 |
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To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
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30th May 2011, 06:55 AM | #268 |
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To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
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30th May 2011, 07:18 AM | #269 |
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It is difficult, to say the least, to convince someone (particularly a mother) that their child's illness or disability cannot necessarily be blamed on an event such as innoculation rather than accept that it's just one of those things that we are all at risk of to a greater or lesser degree.
Vaccinations do have side effects, that is why manufacturers have to state that there is risk on the product labelling. A drug is approved if it can be demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that the benefit outweighs the risk, but that still leaves risk. It is a fact that drugs have been released that have resulted in appalling outcomes - e.g. Thalidomide. Take all of the above facts, add heart-rending anecdotes that a child was diagnosed autistic after some vaccine shots (yes, I know these events are coincidental), claims of curing the apparently incurable through diet or bicarbonate of soda or whatever, and you end up with a hell of an uphill battle to educate and get acceptance by some that we need to act collectively for the benefit of all even at personal risk to us or our children. |
30th May 2011, 07:28 AM | #270 |
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30th May 2011, 10:38 AM | #271 |
a carbon based life-form
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30th May 2011, 10:46 AM | #272 |
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30th May 2011, 10:50 AM | #273 |
a carbon based life-form
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30th May 2011, 10:52 AM | #274 |
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30th May 2011, 11:45 AM | #275 |
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Quote:
Edit to add
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"He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig |
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30th May 2011, 07:57 PM | #276 |
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30th May 2011, 10:19 PM | #277 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution
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31st May 2011, 01:14 AM | #278 |
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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Unfortunately Clayton, countries with systems that could tabulate autism are also countries where all the kids get vaccines. That doesn't mean there are no kids with autism in places with no vaccines. There's just no one there to diagnose them with autism.
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31st May 2011, 01:27 AM | #279 |
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.
... the very first para of which states:
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Foot bullet much? . . Maurice Hilleman developed the MMR vaccine starting in 1963. The term "autism" was first used in 1911 by Eugen Bleuler. Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger (among others) were diagnosing autism in the 1940s. None of these gentlemen's patients could possibly have received the MMR vaccine, and yet each was diagnosed with having ASD. Of course, then there's this, but there are lots of big words in that so let me simplify: the physical / genetic / chemical composition of an autistic brain is different than that of a non-autistic brain. Unless you can demonstrate that these differences are caused by vaccines (and further, why the vast majority of children receiving vaccines do *not* show these differences,) your lies about vaccines are shown to be just that. . |
31st May 2011, 02:10 AM | #280 |
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I know personally the parents of maybe 10 young children including my granddaughters. 3 of the little boys are autistic. Where is your skepticism? You actually think 22 different vaccines couldn't screw up a baby's brain.
Vaccines aren't freaking pills with a specific dosage. Vaccines are live diseases, injected into a baby. What freaking disease goes directly into the blood stream and directly into the brain? I guess the closest thing in nature would be snake venom and we all know how that works out. And then there's mosquitoes injecting malaria into the bloodstream. |
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