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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 1st December 2018, 03:23 AM   #4001
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Well, if appeals to authority are fine, then this former federal prosecutor says that in order to avoid one all you need to do is to tell the truth

Here's another explaining why it doesn't apply to Mueller at all
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Old 1st December 2018, 04:48 AM   #4002
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Thanks for those links.

The second features Randall Eliason, a frequent guest on the Opening Arguments podcast. In fact, here’s one with him discussing “perjury traps”:

https://openargs.com/oa204-the-perju...ndall-eliason/

Not surprisingly, his attitude is pretty much the same as mine, to wit:

1) It’s trivially easy to avoid a perjury trap - tell the truth consistently.

2) It’s at best a “perjury opportunity”. Given the opportunity, the options are:

A) Tell the truth
B) Lie and commit perjury, or,
C) Plead the Fifth

Seems patently clear to me.
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Old 1st December 2018, 05:42 AM   #4003
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wrong thread
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Last edited by varwoche; 1st December 2018 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:07 AM   #4004
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Dear Leader is to be defended at all costs, facts be damned. His words are to be parroted, no matter how asinine. Such is the way of a cultist.

Perjury trap!
17 angry democrats!
Leftists!
Witch hunt!
Lock her up!

If Dear Leader says X, the cultists say X. If Dear Leader says Y, the cultists say Y. No matter that X and Y contradict the stated principles of the cultist. What if X or Y violates long-held Christian beliefs? **** that bull ****. Dear Leader is priority #1 and #2. Anti-abortion zeal has fallen down the priority list. Strong man is Daddy.
I do wonder what would happen to his evangelical base if the evidence of him encouraging his lovers to have abortions comes out.

It's highly unlikely that he hasn't done that
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:30 AM   #4005
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...87982834163712

Quote:
Richard Burr confirms that the Senate Intel Committee "has made referrals to the special prosecutor" for criminal prosecution.

"In a lot of cases, those might be tied to lying to us."
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...99824730214400

Quote:
The referrals were bipartisan, I'm told--Warner signed off on them, too. Unclear when they were made or for whom.
As someone points out in the replies - I wonder if this is going to extend to Kavanaugh?
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:31 AM   #4006
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Swalwell says he has circumstantial evidence of more lies to Congress by Cohen
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:39 AM   #4007
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The Washington Post has compiled a list of the lies told about Russia by Trump and those surrounding him
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:40 AM   #4008
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The Washington Post has compiled a list of the lies told about Russia by Trump and those surrounding him

Incidentally, just these lies alone are enough to establish that Putin had leverage over Trump. The fact that Putin knew they were lying means that he was in possession of information that Trump didn't want the American people to know. That's the very definition of leverage.
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:43 AM   #4009
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https://twitter.com/GlennKesslerWP/s...21345988800517

Quote:
Just think: @POTUS repeatedly urged Americans to read and believe the House GOP Intelligence Committee report, even though he knew the section concerning Trump Tower Moscow was false, as it was based on Cohen's testimony
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:47 AM   #4010
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
One of the things that makes me roll my eyes about this is that certain people seem to believe that merely misstating anything will get you charged with lying to the FBI. Like if they ask you want the weather was like and you get it wrong, omg, that's a charge.

It's a complete fiction.

The law states that you are not allowed to "knowingly and willfully" make false statements about things that are "material" to the case.

Questions about what you had for breakfast, or the weather are highly unlikely to to be material to the case, and merely making a mistake in what you say, is not "knowingly and willingly".

The only way to get "trapped" is to know the truth and to deliberately either try and cover it up, or to deliberately give a false statement.
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:50 AM   #4011
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The Washington Post has compiled a list of the lies told about Russia by Trump and those surrounding him

Incidentally, just these lies alone are enough to establish that Putin had leverage over Trump. The fact that Putin knew they were lying means that he was in possession of information that Trump didn't want the American people to know. That's the very definition of leverage.
No joke! Thanks for posting this.
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Old 1st December 2018, 06:59 AM   #4012
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I do wonder what would happen to his evangelical base if the evidence of him encouraging his lovers to have abortions comes out.

It's highly unlikely that he hasn't done that
I predict that they would just ignore the fact. Or say "everyone is a sinner" or considering the level of hypocrisy they already exhibit blame the dirty heathen sluts...
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Old 1st December 2018, 07:04 AM   #4013
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This should be damming for impartial observers

Quote:
Swalwell said he was previously aware Cohen lied to his committee but was limited because he could not make public transcripts of Cohen’s testimony or pass them along to Mueller.

“The Republicans have failed to allow us to send those to Bob Mueller,” he said. “Our transcripts have not been released.”
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Old 1st December 2018, 07:23 AM   #4014
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I do wonder what would happen to his evangelical base if the evidence of him encouraging his lovers to have abortions comes out.
Meh. King David did worse.
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Old 1st December 2018, 07:30 AM   #4015
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
This should be damming for impartial observers
I've seen it said (although I forget now where) that the Democrats have already met and decided that action 1, day 1 will be passing on all relevant transcripts to Mueller.
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:14 AM   #4016
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[double post]

Last edited by W.D.Clinger; 1st December 2018 at 08:30 AM. Reason: duplicate post
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:29 AM   #4017
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
In one of Dashell Hammett's great "Continnental Op" stories (about a private detective agency) the Operator,on seeing an obviousl false statement says:

"I spotted 12 lies right off the top, with the promise of many more to come".

In "The Golden Horseshoe", Hammett's Continental Op eventually identifies a killer but has no solid evidence against him. To encourage the killer to act in a self-incriminating way, the detective pays four unsuspecting locals to give him a nod when they see a person of a certain description, with a notably long and thin neck, in a bar. "Be careful when you give me the nod. I don't want anybody in there to find out that you know me."

From "The Golden Horseshoe", by Dashiell Hammett:

Originally Posted by Dashiell Hammett
The Filipino turned around, looked at me, ducking his head sharply, and bolted for the street. The three who were left shot their drinks down their gullets and tried to catch my eye.
I was reading a sign high on the wall behind the bar:
ONLY GENUINE PRE-WAR AMERICAN AND BRITISH WHISKEYS SERVED HERE
I was trying to count how many lies could be found in those nine words, and had reached four, with promise of more, when
one of my confederates, the Greek, cleared his throat with the noise of a gasoline engine's backfire. Gooseneck was edging down the bar, a bung-starter in one hand, his face purple.

I looked at my assistants. Their nods wouldn't have been so terrible had they come one at a time; but they were taking no chances on my looking away again before they could get their reports in. The three heads bobbed together—a signal that nobody within twenty feet could, or did, miss—and they scooted out of the door, away from the long-necked man and his bung-starter.

I emptied my glass of beer, sauntered out of the saloon and around the corner....

Anyone who doesn't understand how that excerpt is relevant to the Mueller investigation should read all of the spoilers, including this one:
Giving a stupid person enough rope to hang himself is not a perjury trap. Mueller may not have the Continental Op's sense of humor, but he does have the Op's competence.
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:46 AM   #4018
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Based on the Muller Filings and news reports, Rachel Maddow lays out what could very likely be the entire Trump/Russia Conspiracy Plot...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:57 AM   #4019
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Cohen says he was in "close and regular contact" with Trump's legal team when he was writing his Congressional testimony
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Old 1st December 2018, 08:58 AM   #4020
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
God almighty, the analogies in those examples are beyond insipid particularly the coffee cup one and do not address the concrete examples, particularly the Bonds example, brought up by Popehat.

Great googling tho,



Mod InfoThread closed due to size causing duplicates and slow loading.

Continues here.
Posted By:zooterkin
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