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Old 6th November 2019, 02:05 PM   #1
ponderingturtle
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College Censors Students

I am sure all the usual voices about college censorship when they don't give a free podium to nazis will be all upset about this.

https://www.al.com/news/2019/11/alab...d-seating.html

Of course there is nothing disruptive about good american nazis.
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Old 6th November 2019, 02:14 PM   #2
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What speech is being censored? Your link doesn't indicate that anyone's speech has been censored.
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Old 6th November 2019, 02:20 PM   #3
TragicMonkey
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Quote:
The Student Government Association at the University of Alabama is warning student groups that causing disruptions during President Trump’s visit to the Tide’s Saturday game vs. LSU could result in the loss of reserved seating for the remainder of the season.
Good heavens! People could lose their reserved seating!! It's worse than a thousand Hitlers!!!
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Old 6th November 2019, 02:29 PM   #4
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It was the Student Government Association, not the university itself, and they seem to have backed down under pressure (as they should).
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Old 6th November 2019, 02:48 PM   #5
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Let's see...

We all agree that freedom of speech is a good thing, a human right worth upholding.

We all agree that freedom of speech doesn't mean "no limits anytime, anywhere".

We all agree that freedom of speech doesn't necessarily translate into entitlement to disrupt other people's activities.

We all agree that while the principle is the same in both cases, the government and private entities have different responsibilities and constraints when it comes to restricting speech.

We all agree that applying a reasonable freedom of speech policy is difficult to do in an equitable way that satisfies everyone all the time, and we agree that it's important to try anyway.

So, with this agreement in mind, and dismissing the OP's implied call to outrage, can we as skeptics discuss the kind of free speech policy the University might reasonably try to put in place?
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Old 6th November 2019, 03:11 PM   #6
Brainster
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Let's see...

We all agree that freedom of speech is a good thing, a human right worth upholding.

We all agree that freedom of speech doesn't mean "no limits anytime, anywhere".

We all agree that freedom of speech doesn't necessarily translate into entitlement to disrupt other people's activities.

We all agree that while the principle is the same in both cases, the government and private entities have different responsibilities and constraints when it comes to restricting speech.

We all agree that applying a reasonable freedom of speech policy is difficult to do in an equitable way that satisfies everyone all the time, and we agree that it's important to try anyway.

So, with this agreement in mind, and dismissing the OP's implied call to outrage, can we as skeptics discuss the kind of free speech policy the University might reasonably try to put in place?
This was not the university's action, it was the action of the Student Government Association and quite possibly just the vice president of the SGA.
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Old 6th November 2019, 03:16 PM   #7
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
This was not the university's action, it was the action of the Student Government Association and quite possibly just the vice president of the SGA.
I understand. Obviously the SGA is grappling with some of the same challenges I was alluding to. Maybe the solution is for the University to step in with a superseding policy, and relieve the SGA if that burden. Either way, what would be a good policy?

Some sort of sanction for disrupting an event seems reasonable. Season ban on reserved seating may bee too harsh though. Or maybe not harsh enough.

Why is the SGA in charge of reserved seating, anyway? Is this a block of reserved seats, that the SGA provides as a service to members of the student body in good standing? If so, maybe it isn't so unreasonable of them to withdraw their offer from students who have been disruptive in the past.
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Old 6th November 2019, 03:54 PM   #8
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I've seen a claim that the warning was because of "the last couple games [having] fights in the stands and spilling/throwing drinks on people" rather than anything to do with Trump.
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Old 6th November 2019, 04:02 PM   #9
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
I've seen a claim that the warning was because of "the last couple games [having] fights in the stands and spilling/throwing drinks on people" rather than anything to do with Trump.
Interesting.
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Old 6th November 2019, 04:02 PM   #10
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It might have been helpful to reference previous incidents of violence as the reason rather than Trump's visit as the reason then.

I have my limits when it comes to people "reading in" what they want, but the plain text of the original statement makes it look entirely political.

The SGA VP seems to have not thought it through.
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Old 6th November 2019, 04:04 PM   #11
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
It might have been helpful to reference previous incidents of violence as the reason rather than Trump's visit as the reason then.

I have my limits when it comes to people "reading in" what they want, but the plain text of the original statement makes it look entirely political.

The SGA VP seems to have not thought it through.
One possible thought process might have been:

"Don't think that 'Orange Man Bad' is going to be a valid excuse to start the same kinds of disruptions we've put up with in the past. We're not putting up with that anymore. Try anything during the president's visit, and you're out for good."

But yeah, poorly communicated. Though, hardly a censorship problem worth discussing, it seems.
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Old 6th November 2019, 06:19 PM   #12
Matthew Cline
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From this screenshot of the letter sent out it didn't mention any reason. Though yes, it would have been good PR to say why they were doing it.
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Old 6th November 2019, 07:06 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
From this screenshot of the letter sent out it didn't mention any reason. Though yes, it would have been good PR to say why they were doing it.
Well then I rescind my earlier assessment.

In the brief time I had to try to unwind the 18 layers of interpretation already piled up, I did not manage to work all the way back to that.

Those who attend the university would be better informed about the recent violence at games and even without a specific reference to it, trying to find some other explanation than that for this statement is the very kind of "reading in" I tire of.

Whether big social issues or one-on-one individual interactions, it would be nice to see less "you just did x!" and more "hang on, did you mean to do x?"
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Old 7th November 2019, 05:24 AM   #14
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
I've seen a claim that the warning was because of "the last couple games [having] fights in the stands and spilling/throwing drinks on people" rather than anything to do with Trump.
Seems kind of questionable given the chanting and such that happens now when Trump is at sporting events.
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Old 7th November 2019, 01:33 PM   #15
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Trump's own people will see to it that no protesters attend the rally by flooding the place with paid supporters he has bussed in.
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