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View Poll Results: What will happen to Rudy.
He's so loyal Trump will make him his running mate in 2020. 1 2.86%
He'll continue being Trump's crazy lawyer and spokesperson. 8 22.86%
He won't be indicted, but Trump will pretend he doesn't know him. 10 28.57%
Rudy will be indicted but won't be convicted. 6 17.14%
He'll be convicted but Trump will pardon him 6 17.14%
The guy is toast. "America's mayor will die in prison. 4 11.43%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11th November 2019, 02:49 PM   #41
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Well, the text of the law says:

Quote:
Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
It was authorized by Trump, and traditionally, the president sets foreign policy
Err, I don't think it works like that. "The United States" in that context refers to the US Government; POTUS is not the Government.

AIUI, any person granted the authority to do what Giuliani has been doing (such as Secretary of State) is supposed to be approved by the Senate.
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:19 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Well, the text of the law says:



It was authorized by Trump, and traditionally, the president sets foreign policy.

I'm not sure I'd choose this particular law to run on with this stuff...
I guess I was wrong. It still is quite odd to have someone outside of an official government roll doing so much work on behalf of the government
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Old 11th November 2019, 07:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
I guess I was wrong. It still is quite odd to have someone outside of an official government roll doing so much work on behalf of the government
It really does seem so unusual I'd always assumed it was legally prohibited. It seems like to do diplomatic/ambassador-type/foreign policy negotiation work, you should have to swear some oath to the constitution. Surely, right? I still suspect it might be the case. The actual constitutional scholars out there might know exactly which law(s) were violated and are just keeping quiet for now for whatever reason.
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Last edited by kellyb; 11th November 2019 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 11th November 2019, 09:07 PM   #44
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I think y'all were correct in the first place - Giuliani has been in breach of the Logan Act...
"Giuliani has said his work in Ukraine was official business on behalf of the State Department—a claim that, if true, would conceivably put him on the right side of the Logan Act and possibly protect his activities under executive privilege, allowing the president to prevent documents and communications from disclosure if he can argue that doing so would compromise national security or executive branch deliberations.

However, Giuliani’s claims to be on official business have already been undercut by recent reporting. On September 25, the Washington Post reported that a senior administration official said Secretary of State Mike “Pompeo and the State Department never authorized what Giuliani was doing.” The Post went on to report that the “department’s August statement emphasized that Giuliani is a private citizen, was acting in his personal capacity and ‘does not speak on behalf of the U.S. government.’"

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ivilege-229123
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Old 11th November 2019, 09:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I think y'all were correct in the first place - Giuliani has been in breach of the Logan Act...
"Giuliani has said his work in Ukraine was official business on behalf of the State Department—a claim that, if true, would conceivably put him on the right side of the Logan Act and possibly protect his activities under executive privilege, allowing the president to prevent documents and communications from disclosure if he can argue that doing so would compromise national security or executive branch deliberations.

However, Giuliani’s claims to be on official business have already been undercut by recent reporting. On September 25, the Washington Post reported that a senior administration official said Secretary of State Mike “Pompeo and the State Department never authorized what Giuliani was doing.” The Post went on to report that the “department’s August statement emphasized that Giuliani is a private citizen, was acting in his personal capacity and ‘does not speak on behalf of the U.S. government.’"

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ivilege-229123
Aahh...maybe!

eta: I hope this doesn't boil down to Barr or Kavanaugh deciding (or not) that Trump has the authority to give private citizens the authority to speak on behalf of the US government.
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Old 11th November 2019, 10:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Aahh...maybe!

eta: I hope this doesn't boil down to Barr or Kavanaugh deciding (or not) that Trump has the authority to give private citizens the authority to speak on behalf of the US government.
Rudy was speaking for Trump, and Trump IS the US government. Just ask him.
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Old 12th November 2019, 12:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Rudy was speaking for Trump, and Trump IS the US government. Just ask him.
I really do worry (and maybe I'm just being paranoid) that our "separation of powers" system is about to be tested in a "rock, paper, scissors game" sort of way, and the executive branch will be Trump [rock], supreme court/Kavanaugh/Barr [paper], and congress is supposed to be scissors.

Under a worst case scenario situation, that might pan out to basically legalizes a form of dictatorship in the US, where nobody even pretends any more that the executive branch head is subject to any of the laws of the land.

Or maybe we were here before, when I was a small child, during the Iran Contra era, when it looks in retrospect like Reagan and Bush Sr were maybe functionally above the law.

So, optimistically, from an anti-paranoia perspective, it's just SSDM (same ****, different millennium. LOL)
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Old 12th November 2019, 12:41 AM   #48
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Old 12th November 2019, 06:55 AM   #49
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Coach will let him dress for the final game of his senior year, but leave him on the bench. After a raucous crowd chants his name i unison, including other players and staff, Coach finally puts Rudy in when the game is all but won. He gets in on a kick off and even makes a sack during a defensive stand. After the victory, his teammates carry him on their shoulders off the field.

Or his drunk crooked ass serves a token prison sentence and he lives out a life of solitude, dying quietly in disgrace.
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Old 12th November 2019, 07:46 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Well, the text of the law says:



It was authorized by Trump, and traditionally, the president sets foreign policy.

I'm not sure I'd choose this particular law to run on with this stuff...


My understanding is that the Logan Act has never actually been applied, so it's not clear exactly how the courts would rule on this issue.

But I think he should absolutely be charged under this act, because that's a lose-lose for these jerks. It's been established that Rudy didn't have authorization from any other part of the US government, so he's either guilty as hell of violating this act, or Trump has to admit he sent Rudy there to act on his behalf. At this point, either one is a win for the forces of Goodness and Normalcy.
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:12 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
he's either guilty as hell of violating this act, or Trump has to admit he sent Rudy there to act on his behalf.
I'm sure Rudy's blood pressure is very stable as he relaxes in the knowledge of Trump's past examples of loyalty to his lackeys. Of course Trump will not only admit to lying but also incriminate himself, all on behalf of protecting Rudy. Right?
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:36 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm sure Rudy's blood pressure is very stable as he relaxes in the knowledge of Trump's past examples of loyalty to his lackeys. Of course Trump will not only admit to lying but also incriminate himself, all on behalf of protecting Rudy. Right?

Hey, it's win-win for us, and we can enjoy their discomfort no matter what form it takes!
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Old 12th November 2019, 10:13 AM   #53
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And now he wants to start a podcast to give analysis on the impeachment proceedings.

Although, I am pretty sure it would more accurately be called "testimony". His first sponsor will be LegalZoom.
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Old 12th November 2019, 10:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
And now he wants to start a podcast to give analysis on the impeachment proceedings.

Although, I am pretty sure it would more accurately be called "testimony". His first sponsor will be LegalZoom.
Is LegalZoom also going to defend him? A company started by OJ lawyer Bob Shapiro, by the way.
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Old 12th November 2019, 12:25 PM   #55
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Is it possible he's such a team player he'll willingly crawl under the bus of his own accord?


Of course not, I just wanted to toss that in for a laugh.
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Old 12th November 2019, 11:08 PM   #56
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Um... Where's the option Giuliani replaces Ginsburg?
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:48 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Um... Where's the option Giuliani replaces Ginsburg?
They wouldn't put someone that old on the SC.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:34 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Excellent.

Thread needs more photos. Here's Rudi with his friends Igor and Lev, enjoying cigars in London. I wonder who has the purse - probably the photographer.



Giuliani was close to podcast deal with John Solomon at The Hill

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Old 15th November 2019, 03:54 AM   #59
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Under investigation for campaign finance laws and failure to register as a foreign agent

Interesting tidbit from that article - there's a suggestion that Giuliani may have something on Trump that would prevent Trump from throwing him under the bus:

Quote:
Giuliani was asked inan interview with the Guardian whether he was concerned Trump might “throw him under a bus.” Giuliani laughed and said: “I’m not, but I do have very, very good insurance, so if he does, all my hospital bills will be paid.”

Giuliani lawyer Robert Costello interjected to say, “He’s joking,” according to the Guardian report, which was published on Thursday.
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Old 15th November 2019, 04:19 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Under investigation for campaign finance laws and failure to register as a foreign agent

Interesting tidbit from that article - there's a suggestion that Giuliani may have something on Trump that would prevent Trump from throwing him under the bus:
I'd love to speculate a bit what it could be that Rudy has on Trump.
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Old 15th November 2019, 04:47 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Excellent.

Thread needs more photos. Here's Rudi with his friends Igor and Lev, enjoying cigars in London. I wonder who has the purse - probably the photographer.


Quite a photo that.

The mob lawyer talking to two Associates in a smoke-filled room while an Enforcer watches on.
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Old 15th November 2019, 04:56 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Quite a photo that.

The mob lawyer talking to two Associates in a smoke-filled room while an Enforcer watches on.
How rude. They are all playing with their mobiles.
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Old 15th November 2019, 06:13 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'd love to speculate a bit what it could be that Rudy has on Trump.
He may just be senile enough that he thought they were talking about a literal bus accident and he was boasting of his medical insurance.
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