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Old 11th November 2019, 09:05 PM   #81
Leftus
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Some medical studies have shown that the brain continues to show signs of consciousness up to as much as eight minutes after 'official death'.

There was the case of a guy frozen to death but when thawed out he resuscitated.
This is covered by the "you're not dead until you are warm and dead" or room tempature and dead guidelines.
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:10 AM   #82
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One of the major issues in the US, is that because of the SSA lists and how they are used, you could end up accidentally dead multiple times, even after having proven that you aren't dead yet. This is because multiple lists are being used by different organisations because they aren't updated, so if you are on a list that is being passed around and not updated that list can keep on retriggering your "Death"
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Old 12th November 2019, 10:44 AM   #83
Darat
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
One of the major issues in the US, is that because of the SSA lists and how they are used, you could end up accidentally dead multiple times, even after having proven that you aren't dead yet. This is because multiple lists are being used by different organisations because they aren't updated, so if you are on a list that is being passed around and not updated that list can keep on retriggering your "Death"
To be dead once, Mr. PhantomWolf may be regarded as a misfortune; to be dead twice looks like carelessness.
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Old 12th November 2019, 11:05 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The article does say "fewer than 1,000".
Fewer than 1 mighte be acceptable.

I remember reading a SF story about a guy who was mistakenly thought by the government to be dead. Apparently we live in the future.
Then there is the practice in some countries of having a relative declared dead so you can inherit their stuff.

http://content.time.com/time/world/a...054133,00.html
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:55 AM   #85
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Some interesting stuff about discovering you're dead...

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Old 13th November 2019, 09:33 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Then there is the practice in some countries of having a relative declared dead so you can inherit their stuff.

http://content.time.com/time/world/a...054133,00.html
Wouldn't that usually be called robbery?
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Old 14th November 2019, 02:06 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Then there is the practice in some countries of having a relative declared dead so you can inherit their stuff.

http://content.time.com/time/world/a...054133,00.html
Hence the need for a death certificate before you can inherit.
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Old 14th November 2019, 08:00 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Wouldn't that usually be called robbery?
In the US, it would like be conversion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_(law)
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Old 14th November 2019, 09:27 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay maybe Jabba did get reincarnated.
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Old 16th November 2019, 12:26 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I believe in this case it was more dependent on WHO said it, not necessarily that it might have been momentarily true. He needed to be declared dead by a medical examiner, not just a regular doctor, if I understand it correctly.
Nah, a regular doctor or sometimes nurses, PAs and NPs, can declare death. In cases of extreme or traumatic injuries (where it is obvious that no resuscitation attempts would be successful), even paramedics and first responders can declare a person dead (as in "dead on arrival", or "dead at the scene"). An ME is necessary to proclaim the cause of death for official documents and investigates where applicable.


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I also highly doubt this is the first time that something like this has been attempted.
Of course it's not the first time. Examples abound throughout history, especially with hanging and electrocution (i.e., the electric chair).



Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Is it? What is the actual definition of death?
Two definitions exist in the US (don't know about other countries): (1)cardiopulmonary cessation and (2)brain function cessation.


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Heart stopped? That can be reversed.
Yes, many times it's possible. Because of this potential, it's often referred to as 'clinical death' to help distinguish it from a final 'death'.

But then any time that blow flow ceases, the organs begin to suffer from ischemia and begin to deteriorate. The brain, of course, is the most vulnerable organ.


Quote:
No brain activity? That can be reversed.
Wait, what? No, there's no way yet to restart regular functional brain activity once it has ceased. Not currently. Not in reality.


Quote:
What's the actual dividing line?

There are certainly changes that occur which can't be reversed. Some of those changes might be reversible in the future, though. And many of those which have basically no prospect of ever being reversible (like total decay of the flesh) happen significantly after what we normally consider to be death. If you simply tack on "irreversible" to a condition like stopped heart or no brain activity, you run into the problem of not always knowing when someone is actually dead.
The line isn't as blurry as I think you're implying here. Of course there's much discussion over where the line is drawn at "actual factual no fer reals death" including when is it ethically appropriate to NOT try and resuscitate a person in cardiac arrest for example (similar to a DNR, it's called Do Not Attempt Resuscitation or DNAR). Lots of docs and medical personnel agonize over when they should firmly resist performing resuscitation maneuvers and declare the person deceased.


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And what's life? Not being dead?

Do you have a definition which can be usefully applied to a person to give an unambiguous answer to whether or not they're dead?
Yes, as stated above. Complete cessation of cardiopulmonary activity and/or lack of brain function.
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Last edited by The Norseman; 16th November 2019 at 12:27 PM.
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