Big News About Aliens

Gord_in_Toronto · 15th June 2022, 10:12 AM

Oh. Wow (qv)!

China says its giant 'Sky Eye' telescope may have picked up signals from alien civilizations

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-says...111730384.html

Oh dear. Maybe not.

Quote:

Zhang was also quoted by the newspaper as saying the new signals could just be radio interference.

Never mind.

shemp · 15th June 2022, 08:02 PM

It's just Klingons on Uranus.

Quote:

Researchers with Beijing Normal University...

So is there a Beijing Abnormal University?

Gord_in_Toronto · 16th June 2022, 05:18 AM

It's even worse than we first thought!

There Could Be Four Hostile Civilizations in the Milky Way

Quote:

Alberto Caballero offered some fresh insights into the Wow! Signal and extraterrestrial intelligence in our cosmic neighborhood. In the first paper, he surveyed nearby Sun-like stars to identify a possible source for the signal. In the second, he estimates the prevalence of hostile extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy and the likelihood that they’ll invade us.

Further;

Quote:

His analysis showed that a maximum of four malicious civilizations would be within earshot of our transmissions.

But don't worry too much as the stats are in our favour.

Quote:

As Caballero said, this indicates that an alien invasion is not the greatest existential threat facing humanity:

https://www.universetoday.com/156281...the-milky-way/

The whole article is actually a pretty thorough discussion of the Wow! Signal^WP and SETI in general..

Gord_in_Toronto · 16th June 2022, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

It's just Klingons on Uranus.

So is there a Beijing Abnormal University?

To cheap to do it for yourself, eh?

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Beiji...mal+University

shemp · 16th June 2022, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

To cheap to do it for yourself, eh?

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Beiji...mal+University

Why should I do anything for myself when I can get some knucklehead to do the work?

Gord_in_Toronto · 16th June 2022, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

Why should I do anything for myself when I can get some knucklehead to do the work?

Knuckleheads do what knuckleheads must do, I 'spose. My turn in the barrel this week.

dudalb · 22nd June 2022, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

It's even worse than we first thought!

There Could Be Four Hostile Civilizations in the Milky Way

Further;

But don't worry too much as the stats are in our favour.

https://www.universetoday.com/156281...the-milky-way/

The whole article is actually a pretty thorough discussion of the Wow! Signal^WP and SETI in general..

The Four Civilizations seems very Babylon 5 to me.

The Atheist · 22nd June 2022, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Oh. Wow (qv)!

Desperate to be seen as a progressive 21st century country, instead of the xenophobic, genocidal regime it actually is, China says its giant 'Sky Eye' telescope may have picked up signals from alien civilizations

What the headline should read.

Sherman Bay · 22nd June 2022, 05:56 PM

The logic used to flag aliens as hostile relies entirely on extrapolating human characteristics (X groups tend to invade neighbors Y times over Z centuries). Extrapolation is always iffy, and assuming that other lifeforms with nothing that we know of in common with us will act similarly is a giant, unsupported leap of faith.

You don't have the slightest knowledge that aliens even exist and what form they might take, and you are already psychoanalyzing them?

IOW, nonsense.

Gord_in_Toronto · 22nd June 2022, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

What the headline should read.

Yeh, Who do they think they are? The "History" Channel?

Pixel42 · 22nd June 2022, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Sherman Bay

The logic used to flag aliens as hostile relies entirely on extrapolating human characteristics (X groups tend to invade neighbors Y times over Z centuries). Extrapolation is always iffy, and assuming that other lifeforms with nothing that we know of in common with us will act similarly is a giant, unsupported leap of faith.

You don't have the slightest knowledge that aliens even exist and what form they might take, and you are already psychoanalyzing them?

IOW, nonsense.

We know they evolved by natural selection, which is actually quite a lot to have in common with us.

dasmiller · 23rd June 2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

We know they evolved by natural selection, which is actually quite a lot to have in common with us.

I'm not sure we know that. Their progenitors undoubtedly did, but the aliens we run into might be a genetically tailored race for whatever environment we find them in, or it might be a machine race created by an earlier biological race, or probably all manner of possibilities that haven't occurred to me yet.

Armitage72 · 24th June 2022, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by dasmiller

I'm not sure we know that. Their progenitors undoubtedly did, but the aliens we run into might be a genetically tailored race for whatever environment we find them in, or it might be a machine race created by an earlier biological race, or probably all manner of possibilities that haven't occurred to me yet.

A number of science fiction stories use the idea of an alien species that evolved from something other than primates and retains psychological traits found in their ancestor species, such as the Shongairi in David Weber's "Out of the Dark". They had canine ancestors and retained a pack mentality and a tendency to submit to superiors, which made it more difficult for them to respond appropriately to human behavior during their invasion.
One of the Starfire novels had an alien species that possessed immortality through reincarnation. When one of them died their consciousness was stored in a sort of collective mental "pool" until a new body was born. Some people could remember their past lives better than others, just like how some people are naturally better singers than others, but everyone could remember their past lives to various degrees. It made their soldiers fearless in battle because they knew they'd be back eventually. The problem was that they thought every intelligent species was the same way. They couldn't understand why their enemies got so upset when they executed wounded enemy soldiers or nuked an entire city to eliminate a handful of rebels. They didn't realize they were permanently killing people.

Puppycow · 24th June 2022, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Pixel42

We know they evolved by natural selection, which is actually quite a lot to have in common with us.

If they exist, I think it would be entirely possible that we would have a lot in common with them. The same natural laws that have shaped the evolution of lifeforms on earth might produce similar results elsewhere. If the environment on the planet is similar to our own, even more so. If they have oceans with ocean creatures in them, they might resemble the fish in our oceans. It's a design that works. Like how dolphins and sharks look sort of similar. Convergent evolution.

Land-based animals tend to have legs. Quadrupeds are common. But if they are intelligent and technological they might be bipedal with forelimbs that evolved to manipulate objects, like our hands. Their limbs might be quite different of course, but still adapted not for walking but for using tools.

Delvo · 24th June 2022, 04:07 PM

We don't need to know anything about what the aliens are like in order to figure out that they'll do what the laws of physics say they have no choice but to do. Interstellar distances & travel times are so ridiculous that it simply can't be worth the bother while your home planet & star can still be used. Thus, the only way one species will ever arrive at another's home is when the travelers' home is not usable anymore, which makes taking over another planet a simple unavoidable matter of survival or extinction. Under that pressure, nobody would care whether their new home already has squatters who would object. So there's no way such contact can fail to be an all-out, exterminate-or-be-exterminated, invasion.

Puppycow · 24th June 2022, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Delvo

We don't need to know anything about what the aliens are like in order to figure out that they'll do what the laws of physics say they have no choice but to do. Interstellar distances & travel times are so ridiculous that it simply can't be worth the bother while your home planet & star can still be used. Thus, the only way one species will ever arrive at another's home is when the travelers' home is not usable anymore, which makes taking over another planet a simple unavoidable matter of survival or extinction. Under that pressure, nobody would care whether their new home already has squatters who would object. So there's no way such contact can fail to be an all-out, exterminate-or-be-exterminated, invasion.

Maybe the planet is big enough for both of the species to coexist peacefully, and learn from each other. Why does it have to be exterminate or be exterminated?

ChrisBFRPKY · 24th June 2022, 10:16 PM

Thank God we have the Space Force.

Craig4 · 24th June 2022, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Thank God we have the Space Force.

Yeah, maybe they can prevent your furry friend from getting butt ****** by the aliens.

The Atheist · 25th June 2022, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Maybe the planet is big enough for both of the species to coexist peacefully, and learn from each other. Why does it have to be exterminate or be exterminated?

I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that, but the other species is humankind.

Samson · 26th June 2022, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that, but the other species is humankind.

You are therefore a misanthrope like Jonathan Swift.

Puppycow · 28th June 2022, 05:32 AM

Launch Pad Astronomy did a video explaining the science behind this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrm2NnGSf8Y

If you want to know what techniques they use to determine whether the signal is really coming from outer space or some sort of radio interference, he explains how they do that, or at least how they try to.

dann · 28th June 2022, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Maybe the planet is big enough for both of the species to coexist peacefully, and learn from each other. Why does it have to be exterminate or be exterminated?

I recommend Children of Time and its sequel. It's the best sf novel about the difficulties communicating with intelligent aliens I have ever read. (And they aren't even that alien, which only makes it worse!

)

Roger Ramjets · 28th June 2022, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

What the headline should read.

What the headline really should said:-

China says its giant boondoggle 'Sky Eye' telescope picked up nothing but radio interference.

Quote:

Zhang was also quoted by the newspaper as saying the new signals could just be aliens. "I mean", said Zhang, "If the US can spout such BS in a desperate attempt to stay relevant, why not us?"

Roger Ramjets · 28th June 2022, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that, but the other species is humankind.

I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that some humans need to be exterminated so the rest of us can coexist peacefully.

15th June 2022, 10:12 AM	#1
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,703	Big News About Aliens Oh. Wow (qv)! China says its giant 'Sky Eye' telescope may have picked up signals from alien civilizations https://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-says...111730384.html Oh dear. Maybe not. Quote: Zhang was also quoted by the newspaper as saying the new signals could just be radio interference. Never mind.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

15th June 2022, 08:02 PM	#2
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 49,483	It's just Klingons on Uranus. Quote: Researchers with Beijing Normal University... So is there a Beijing Abnormal University?
	__________________ Counting the days to Civil War II. Last edited by shemp; 15th June 2022 at 08:03 PM.

16th June 2022, 05:18 AM	#3
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,703	It's even worse than we first thought! There Could Be Four Hostile Civilizations in the Milky Way Quote: Alberto Caballero offered some fresh insights into the Wow! Signal and extraterrestrial intelligence in our cosmic neighborhood. In the first paper, he surveyed nearby Sun-like stars to identify a possible source for the signal. In the second, he estimates the prevalence of hostile extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way Galaxy and the likelihood that they’ll invade us. Further; Quote: His analysis showed that a maximum of four malicious civilizations would be within earshot of our transmissions. But don't worry too much as the stats are in our favour. Quote: As Caballero said, this indicates that an alien invasion is not the greatest existential threat facing humanity: https://www.universetoday.com/156281...the-milky-way/ The whole article is actually a pretty thorough discussion of the Wow! Signal^WP and SETI in general..
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick Last edited by Gord_in_Toronto; 16th June 2022 at 05:33 AM. Reason: Forgot the link

16th June 2022, 05:48 AM	#4
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,703	Originally Posted by shemp It's just Klingons on Uranus. So is there a Beijing Abnormal University? To cheap to do it for yourself, eh? https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Beiji...mal+University
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

16th June 2022, 07:45 AM	#5
shemp a flimsy character...perfidious and despised Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Out back preparing the bunker for the next Civil War Posts: 49,483	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto To cheap to do it for yourself, eh? https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Beiji...mal+University Why should I do anything for myself when I can get some knucklehead to do the work?
	__________________ Counting the days to Civil War II.

16th June 2022, 09:01 AM	#6
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,703	Originally Posted by shemp Why should I do anything for myself when I can get some knucklehead to do the work? Knuckleheads do what knuckleheads must do, I 'spose. My turn in the barrel this week.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

22nd June 2022, 02:30 PM	#7
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 55,959	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto It's even worse than we first thought! There Could Be Four Hostile Civilizations in the Milky Way Further; But don't worry too much as the stats are in our favour. https://www.universetoday.com/156281...the-milky-way/ The whole article is actually a pretty thorough discussion of the Wow! Signal^WP and SETI in general.. The Four Civilizations seems very Babylon 5 to me.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

22nd June 2022, 05:26 PM	#8
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 32,066	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Oh. Wow (qv)! Desperate to be seen as a progressive 21st century country, instead of the xenophobic, genocidal regime it actually is, China says its giant 'Sky Eye' telescope may have picked up signals from alien civilizations What the headline should read.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

22nd June 2022, 05:56 PM	#9
Sherman Bay Master Poster Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 2,413	The logic used to flag aliens as hostile relies entirely on extrapolating human characteristics (X groups tend to invade neighbors Y times over Z centuries). Extrapolation is always iffy, and assuming that other lifeforms with nothing that we know of in common with us will act similarly is a giant, unsupported leap of faith. You don't have the slightest knowledge that aliens even exist and what form they might take, and you are already psychoanalyzing them? IOW, nonsense.

22nd June 2022, 07:36 PM	#10
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,703	Originally Posted by The Atheist What the headline should read. Yeh, Who do they think they are? The "History" Channel?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

22nd June 2022, 10:40 PM	#11
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 14,806	Originally Posted by Sherman Bay The logic used to flag aliens as hostile relies entirely on extrapolating human characteristics (X groups tend to invade neighbors Y times over Z centuries). Extrapolation is always iffy, and assuming that other lifeforms with nothing that we know of in common with us will act similarly is a giant, unsupported leap of faith. You don't have the slightest knowledge that aliens even exist and what form they might take, and you are already psychoanalyzing them? IOW, nonsense. We know they evolved by natural selection, which is actually quite a lot to have in common with us.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

23rd June 2022, 08:13 AM	#12
dasmiller Just the right amount of cowbell Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon Posts: 6,544	Originally Posted by Pixel42 We know they evolved by natural selection, which is actually quite a lot to have in common with us. I'm not sure we know that. Their progenitors undoubtedly did, but the aliens we run into might be a genetically tailored race for whatever environment we find them in, or it might be a machine race created by an earlier biological race, or probably all manner of possibilities that haven't occurred to me yet.
	__________________ "In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt

24th June 2022, 06:10 AM	#13
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7,186	Originally Posted by dasmiller I'm not sure we know that. Their progenitors undoubtedly did, but the aliens we run into might be a genetically tailored race for whatever environment we find them in, or it might be a machine race created by an earlier biological race, or probably all manner of possibilities that haven't occurred to me yet. A number of science fiction stories use the idea of an alien species that evolved from something other than primates and retains psychological traits found in their ancestor species, such as the Shongairi in David Weber's "Out of the Dark". They had canine ancestors and retained a pack mentality and a tendency to submit to superiors, which made it more difficult for them to respond appropriately to human behavior during their invasion. One of the Starfire novels had an alien species that possessed immortality through reincarnation. When one of them died their consciousness was stored in a sort of collective mental "pool" until a new body was born. Some people could remember their past lives better than others, just like how some people are naturally better singers than others, but everyone could remember their past lives to various degrees. It made their soldiers fearless in battle because they knew they'd be back eventually. The problem was that they thought every intelligent species was the same way. They couldn't understand why their enemies got so upset when they executed wounded enemy soldiers or nuked an entire city to eliminate a handful of rebels. They didn't realize they were permanently killing people.

24th June 2022, 08:22 AM	#14
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 27,251	Originally Posted by Pixel42 We know they evolved by natural selection, which is actually quite a lot to have in common with us. If they exist, I think it would be entirely possible that we would have a lot in common with them. The same natural laws that have shaped the evolution of lifeforms on earth might produce similar results elsewhere. If the environment on the planet is similar to our own, even more so. If they have oceans with ocean creatures in them, they might resemble the fish in our oceans. It's a design that works. Like how dolphins and sharks look sort of similar. Convergent evolution. Land-based animals tend to have legs. Quadrupeds are common. But if they are intelligent and technological they might be bipedal with forelimbs that evolved to manipulate objects, like our hands. Their limbs might be quite different of course, but still adapted not for walking but for using tools.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

24th June 2022, 04:07 PM	#15
Delvo Дэлво Δελϝο דֶלְבֹֿ देल्वो Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Tonawanda, NY Posts: 10,431	We don't need to know anything about what the aliens are like in order to figure out that they'll do what the laws of physics say they have no choice but to do. Interstellar distances & travel times are so ridiculous that it simply can't be worth the bother while your home planet & star can still be used. Thus, the only way one species will ever arrive at another's home is when the travelers' home is not usable anymore, which makes taking over another planet a simple unavoidable matter of survival or extinction. Under that pressure, nobody would care whether their new home already has squatters who would object. So there's no way such contact can fail to be an all-out, exterminate-or-be-exterminated, invasion.

24th June 2022, 05:19 PM	#16
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 27,251	Originally Posted by Delvo We don't need to know anything about what the aliens are like in order to figure out that they'll do what the laws of physics say they have no choice but to do. Interstellar distances & travel times are so ridiculous that it simply can't be worth the bother while your home planet & star can still be used. Thus, the only way one species will ever arrive at another's home is when the travelers' home is not usable anymore, which makes taking over another planet a simple unavoidable matter of survival or extinction. Under that pressure, nobody would care whether their new home already has squatters who would object. So there's no way such contact can fail to be an all-out, exterminate-or-be-exterminated, invasion. Maybe the planet is big enough for both of the species to coexist peacefully, and learn from each other. Why does it have to be exterminate or be exterminated?
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

24th June 2022, 10:16 PM	#17
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,886	Thank God we have the Space Force.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,886

24th June 2022, 11:30 PM	#18
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 25,695	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Thank God we have the Space Force. Yeah, maybe they can prevent your furry friend from getting butt ****** by the aliens.
	__________________ Fight like a Ukrainian.

25th June 2022, 09:46 PM	#19
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 32,066	Originally Posted by Puppycow Maybe the planet is big enough for both of the species to coexist peacefully, and learn from each other. Why does it have to be exterminate or be exterminated? I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that, but the other species is humankind.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

26th June 2022, 03:39 AM	#20
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,020	Originally Posted by The Atheist I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that, but the other species is humankind. You are therefore a misanthrope like Jonathan Swift.

28th June 2022, 05:32 AM	#21
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 27,251	Launch Pad Astronomy did a video explaining the science behind this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrm2NnGSf8Y If you want to know what techniques they use to determine whether the signal is really coming from outer space or some sort of radio interference, he explains how they do that, or at least how they try to.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

28th June 2022, 06:10 AM	#22
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 16,689	Originally Posted by Puppycow Maybe the planet is big enough for both of the species to coexist peacefully, and learn from each other. Why does it have to be exterminate or be exterminated? I recommend Children of Time and its sequel. It's the best sf novel about the difficulties communicating with intelligent aliens I have ever read. (And they aren't even that alien, which only makes it worse! )
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

28th June 2022, 06:33 AM	#23
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,881	Originally Posted by The Atheist What the headline should read. What the headline really should said:- China says its giant boondoggle 'Sky Eye' telescope picked up nothing but radio interference. Quote: Zhang was also quoted by the newspaper as saying the new signals could just be aliens. "I mean", said Zhang, "If the US can spout such BS in a desperate attempt to stay relevant, why not us?"
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

28th June 2022, 06:40 AM	#24
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,881	Originally Posted by The Atheist I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that, but the other species is humankind. I can see an enlightened alien species thinking that some humans need to be exterminated so the rest of us can coexist peacefully.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.