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Old 18th May 2022, 07:20 PM   #2161
psionl0
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Yes I was. Cryto-currencies manipulated by speculators are worthless for real world use if they fluctuate in value from minute to minute.
Whether that is true or not is not proven by a false analogy. Bitcoin is the polar opposite of a currency that can be printed into oblivion.

The mentality of people who don't like bitcoin is to compare it to anything bad no matter what it is and no matter how dissimilar the analogy. I'm surprised it hasn't been compared to the corona virus yet.
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Old 19th May 2022, 03:01 AM   #2162
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Whether that is true or not is not proven by a false analogy. Bitcoin is the polar opposite of a currency that can be printed into oblivion.

The mentality of people who don't like bitcoin is to compare it to anything bad no matter what it is and no matter how dissimilar the analogy. I'm surprised it hasn't been compared to the corona virus yet.
I like corona virus a lot better than bitcoin.
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Old 19th May 2022, 06:20 AM   #2163
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Whether that is true or not is not proven by a false analogy. Bitcoin is the polar opposite of a currency that can be printed into oblivion.
His point was about volatility, printing money is irrelevant when considering whether the analogy is apt or not.
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Old 19th May 2022, 07:03 AM   #2164
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
His point was about volatility, printing money is irrelevant when considering whether the analogy is apt or not.
If you want to point out that bitcoin is volatile then don't do so by comparing it with something that has nothing in common with it.
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Old 19th May 2022, 07:12 AM   #2165
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Quote:
40% of bitcoin investors are now underwater, new data shows
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/09/40pe...node-data.html


Isn't volatility fun
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Old 19th May 2022, 11:12 AM   #2166
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you want to point out that bitcoin is volatile then don't do so by comparing it with something that has nothing in common with it.
According to your definition of Bitcoin, which varies depending on... something.
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Old 19th May 2022, 12:57 PM   #2167
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So what you're saying is even after a massive drop most people still came out ahead?

For this to have any relevance whatsoever you'd have to compare the underwater % and drop in value of bitcoin to the underwater % and drop in value of the stock market when it has had massive crashes.

I bet in both cases the larger the crash the more people underwater. Shocking!
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Old 19th May 2022, 08:35 PM   #2168
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
According to your definition of Bitcoin, which varies depending on... something.
I'm all ears. Tell me how "my" definition of Bitcoin differs to the one that resides on the Blockchain.
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Old 19th May 2022, 08:45 PM   #2169
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you want to point out that bitcoin is volatile then don't do so by comparing it with something that has nothing in common with it.
It has volatility in common, so yeah the analogy seems to work.
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Old 19th May 2022, 09:01 PM   #2170
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
It has volatility in common, so yeah the analogy seems to work.
All fiat currencies run the risk of being printed into oblivion by an irresponsible government. Are you saying that bitcoin is like a fiat currency?
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Old 19th May 2022, 10:02 PM   #2171
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
All fiat currencies run the risk of being printed into oblivion by an irresponsible government.
Irrelevant. Please try to stick to the discussion at hand when you post.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Are you saying that bitcoin is like a fiat currency?
It's not backed by any physical commodity, that would make it like a fiat currency.
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Old 19th May 2022, 10:07 PM   #2172
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Irrelevant. Please try to stick to the discussion at hand when you post.
That is difficult when you are all over the place. You now appear to be arguing that it was a bitcoin like volatility that beset the German mark and not the printing press.
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Old 20th May 2022, 04:29 AM   #2173
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
So what you're saying is even after a massive drop most people still came out ahead?

For this to have any relevance whatsoever you'd have to compare the underwater % and drop in value of bitcoin to the underwater % and drop in value of the stock market when it has had massive crashes.

I bet in both cases the larger the crash the more people underwater. Shocking!
I was surprised so many people in the red. The current price is pretty high if you take a view longer than a year or so, but I didn't realize so much of Bitcoin was very recent acquisitions. I guess a lot of FOMO buying was happening these last few months.
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Old 20th May 2022, 06:23 AM   #2174
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If lot of FOMO was happening, the price would be higher.
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Old 20th May 2022, 07:06 AM   #2175
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That is difficult when you are all over the place.
Stop projecting.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
You now appear to be arguing that it was a bitcoin like volatility that beset the German mark and not the printing press.
Stop creating strawmen. You are the only one claiming "all volatility must occur exactly the same way as the German Mark in the 1920's".
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Old 20th May 2022, 08:05 AM   #2176
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Stop projecting.
Stop projecting.

Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Stop creating strawmen. You are the only one claiming "all volatility must occur exactly the same way as the German Mark in the 1920's".
Stop creating strawmen. The German Mark was never "volatile" like bitcoin. While bitcoin's value goes up and down (but the long term trend is upwards) the Mark just went down and down because it was being printed at an ever increasing rate - something that is impossible to do with bitcoin.

I think you know this but you want to create a false association between the Mark and bitcoin because "the mentality of people who don't like bitcoin is to compare it to anything bad no matter what it is and no matter how dissimilar the analogy".
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Old 20th May 2022, 09:05 AM   #2177
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I think the problem with Bitcoin is that it is just like Bitcoin. I haven’t yet heard of a positive attribute of either.
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Old 20th May 2022, 10:33 AM   #2178
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think the problem with Bitcoin is that it is just like Bitcoin. I haven’t yet heard of a positive attribute of either.
Multiple have been mentioned in this thread. Cryptos have plenty of problems but there are some positives. I really don't understand why so many who normally make quality thoughtful posts in other areas of the forum can't do so with regards to this topic.
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Old 20th May 2022, 11:02 AM   #2179
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Pantera Capital cashed out 80% of its Terra investment before UST crash

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/...fore-ust-crash
What a vulgar display of power.
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Old 20th May 2022, 11:03 AM   #2180
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Originally Posted by ZirconBlue View Post
What a vulgar display of power.
One beating at a time, libertarians are leaning why regulations exist.
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Old 20th May 2022, 01:33 PM   #2181
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Originally Posted by ZirconBlue View Post
What a vulgar display of power.

That's what happens when the market is far beyond driven.
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Old 20th May 2022, 03:13 PM   #2182
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Stop projecting.


Stop creating strawmen. The German Mark was never "volatile" like bitcoin. While bitcoin's value goes up and down (but the long term trend is upwards) the Mark just went down and down because it was being printed at an ever increasing rate - something that is impossible to do with bitcoin.

I think you know this but you want to create a false association between the Mark and bitcoin because "the mentality of people who don't like bitcoin is to compare it to anything bad no matter what it is and no matter how dissimilar the analogy".
And you probably still wonder why no one takes you seriously.
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Old 20th May 2022, 05:36 PM   #2183
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
And you probably still wonder why no one takes you seriously.
What, you deny upward trend of BTC ?
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Old 21st May 2022, 01:18 AM   #2184
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
What, you deny upward trend of BTC ?
Yeah, I know, I am totally crazy. Imagine the look on my face when in [insert random time span] bitcoin reaches 1 Trillion.
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Old 21st May 2022, 02:28 AM   #2185
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On May 22, 2010, a Florida resident paid 10,000 bitcoins for two pizzas in what was the first commercial transaction using cryptocurrency. That day is now known as Bitcoin Pizza Day.
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Old 21st May 2022, 02:28 AM   #2186
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A minuscule .01% of Bitcoin holders control nearly a third of the supply

https://fortune.com/2021/12/20/001-p...-third-supply/

Quote:
Bitcoin advocates have said for years that cryptocurrency is more egalitarian than fiat currency, and that crypto is a way to redistribute financial power that has traditionally been in the hands of banks.
Folks, here we have the "currency" that was supposed to free us from "THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

Who would have thought that a cryptosystem based on how fast you can calculate something via a fast GPU, would favor those who can afford to build huge mining rigs....

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Old 21st May 2022, 10:59 AM   #2187
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
A minuscule .01% of Bitcoin holders control nearly a third of the supply

https://fortune.com/2021/12/20/001-p...-third-supply/



Folks, here we have the "currency" that was supposed to free us from "THE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

Who would have thought that a cryptosystem based on how fast you can calculate something via a fast GPU, would favor those who can afford to build huge mining rigs....
Even that number doesn't account for multiple wallets controlled by the same person or organization.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 04:16 AM   #2188
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
On May 22, 2010, a Florida resident paid 10,000 bitcoins for two pizzas in what was the first commercial transaction using cryptocurrency. That day is now known as Bitcoin Pizza Day.
Yes, the fantastic explosion of bitcoin from essentially worthless in the early years to 5 figure value is the magic that every scammer promises to recreate when introducing a new alt-coin which is promptly pumped and dumped on credulous rubes.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 06:05 AM   #2189
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My first post in this thread. I'm admittedly dense when it comes to the financial and economic sphere.

I just don't get crypto.

- Value based on mathematical calculations?
- A finite limit to the number of coins?

Then there's the fact that so many coins are controlled by so few. To me, these aspects of the thing suggest something resembling an MLM scheme.

A few years ago a renter next to me would frequently extoll bitcoin, as he was mining the stuff himself. But he could never get across to me what was the inherent value of the enterprise. It all seemed so fuzzy to me. One had to buy increasingly more hardware to run these calculations, hoping, I guess, that the expense would pay off. I wonder. Will that final calculation to dig up the last coin require something like a nation's budget in GPUs?
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Old 23rd May 2022, 06:15 AM   #2190
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
My first post in this thread. I'm admittedly dense when it comes to the financial and economic sphere.

I just don't get crypto.

- Value based on mathematical calculations?
- A finite limit to the number of coins?

Then there's the fact that so many coins are controlled by so few. To me, these aspects of the thing suggest something resembling an MLM scheme.

A few years ago a renter next to me would frequently extoll bitcoin, as he was mining the stuff himself. But he could never get across to me what was the inherent value of the enterprise. It all seemed so fuzzy to me. One had to buy increasingly more hardware to run these calculations, hoping, I guess, that the expense would pay off. I wonder. Will that final calculation to dig up the last coin require something like a nation's budget in GPUs?
It's like a Ponzi Scheme, it only still exists because Fanboys are pumping money into it.

Enraged Fanboy in 3,2.....
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Old 23rd May 2022, 01:43 PM   #2191
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Bitcoin decoupled stylishly which will please the disciples. Nasdaq north, bitcoin south.
hehehehe
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Old 23rd May 2022, 02:31 PM   #2192
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I think what happened with Bitcoin is that the fanboys jumped on it as some supposed radical new way to pay for stuff and some "anti-establishment" sentiment. Then, at some point, more people took notice of its rising price and saw it as a speculative vehicle. Which attracted more speculation -and the attention of the financial establishment- and drove the price through the roof. The fanboys made a lot of money, which turned them into speculators. And that caused the volatility and basically destroyed it as any kind of actual currency. The whole anti-establishment idealistic "currency" idea just fell by the wayside to be replaced with greed. Who, really, even cares what bitcoin is "used" for?

This is also the case with almost everything that rode on its coattails. I do believe there is still some glimmer of hope that something more productive than speculative fervor will come out of bitcoin, or at least the blockchain technology it started, but I am beginning to have my doubts.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 03:08 PM   #2193
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think what happened with Bitcoin is that the fanboys jumped on it as some supposed radical new way to pay for stuff and some "anti-establishment" sentiment. Then, at some point, more people took notice of its rising price and saw it as a speculative vehicle. Which attracted more speculation -and the attention of the financial establishment- and drove the price through the roof. The fanboys made a lot of money, which turned them into speculators. And that caused the volatility and basically destroyed it as any kind of actual currency. The whole anti-establishment idealistic "currency" idea just fell by the wayside to be replaced with greed. Who, really, even cares what bitcoin is "used" for?

This is also the case with almost everything that rode on its coattails. I do believe there is still some glimmer of hope that something more productive than speculative fervor will come out of bitcoin, or at least the blockchain technology it started, but I am beginning to have my doubts.
Railways, internet, blockchain.
Which is the odd one out?
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Old 23rd May 2022, 08:32 PM   #2194
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
It's like a Ponzi Scheme, it only still exists because Fanboys are pumping money into it.

Enraged Fanboy in 3,2.....
That's what trolls live for. They post BS in the hopes of getting somebody mad.

The irony is that many actually believe their own BS and some even think that they are the first to come up with this <bad thing> comparison.

As I have said before, the next major bubble will stop them from posting in this thread.
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Old 23rd May 2022, 10:41 PM   #2195
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That's what trolls live for. They post BS in the hopes of getting somebody mad.

The irony is that many actually believe their own BS and some even think that they are the first to come up with this <bad thing> comparison.

As I have said before, the next major bubble will stop them from posting in this thread.
"I don't like the facts this guy is posting, better call him a troll"

ETA: Bitcoin under 30k right now, the next "bubble" is right ahead,lol.

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Old 23rd May 2022, 11:48 PM   #2196
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
"I don't like the facts this guy is posting, better call him a troll"
"This guy has outed me, better call him a Fanboy".

Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
ETA: Bitcoin under 30k right now, the next "bubble" is right ahead,lol.
Bitcoin has made a monkey out of everybody who ever said that there will never be a bigger bubble than the last one. You might as well start swinging from the trees now.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:00 AM   #2197
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yes, the fantastic explosion of bitcoin from essentially worthless in the early years to 5 figure value is the magic that every scammer promises to recreate when introducing a new alt-coin which is promptly pumped and dumped on credulous rubes.
Well to be fair to your point, Bitcoin is not as lucrative an investment as it was 10 years ago. Start ups have always been risky especially new cryptocurrencies. I suppose rubes, city slickers, academics and high school dropouts alike have all been victimized by many scams including crypto but then again, isn't there always someone somewhere trying to figure out the next best way to scam money from others?

psionl0 is always too polite in this thread IMO. I don't spend much time here as I don't suffer fools well. If anyone hasn't made their fortune in Crypto by now, chances are they never will at anything else either.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:15 AM   #2198
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
"I don't like the facts this guy is posting, better call him a troll"

ETA: Bitcoin under 30k right now, the next "bubble" is right ahead,lol.
You do realize that exactly 2 years ago Bitcoin was selling for under $10K?
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:32 AM   #2199
EaglePuncher
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
You do realize that exactly 2 years ago Bitcoin was selling for under $10K?
And your point is?
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:39 AM   #2200
jeremyp
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
My first post in this thread. I'm admittedly dense when it comes to the financial and economic sphere.

I just don't get crypto.

- Value based on mathematical calculations?
- A finite limit to the number of coins?

Then there's the fact that so many coins are controlled by so few. To me, these aspects of the thing suggest something resembling an MLM scheme.

A few years ago a renter next to me would frequently extoll bitcoin, as he was mining the stuff himself. But he could never get across to me what was the inherent value of the enterprise. It all seemed so fuzzy to me. One had to buy increasingly more hardware to run these calculations, hoping, I guess, that the expense would pay off. I wonder. Will that final calculation to dig up the last coin require something like a nation's budget in GPUs?
That is true of Bitcoin but it's not true of cryptocurrency generally. Luna, for example, didn't have any cap on the number of coins. That's why there were 350 million of them a couple of weeks ago but there are currently 6.5 trillion of them and why they are worth practically nothing and can never really regain any value. If they were each only worth 1 cent, it would be a market cap of $65 billion which is obviously insane for a coin that nobody would buy in their right mind.
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