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Old 24th May 2022, 01:46 AM   #2201
jeremyp
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
"This guy has outed me, better call him a Fanboy".


Bitcoin has made a monkey out of everybody who ever said that there will never be a bigger bubble fool than the last one. You might as well start swinging from the trees now.
FTFY

There's nothing supporting the value of Bitcoin except the fact that people who buy it think they'll be able to find somebody to pay them more money for the coin than they paid. Eventually you will run out of bigger fools because the population of the Earth is finite and the ones with real money to spend on Bitcoin are in even shorter supply.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:52 AM   #2202
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
FTFY

There's nothing supporting the value of Bitcoin except the fact that people who buy it think they'll be able to find somebody to pay them more money for the coin than they paid. Eventually you will run out of bigger fools because the population of the Earth is finite and the ones with real money to spend on Bitcoin are in even shorter supply.
AKA "A Ponzi scheme"
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:58 AM   #2203
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
"This guy has outed me, better call him a Fanboy".


Bitcoin has made a monkey out of everybody who ever said that there will never be a bigger bubble than the last one. You might as well start swinging from the trees now.
There have been just 3 bull runs. To 1k to 20k and to 70k.
You are in danger of generalizing from the particular.
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Old 24th May 2022, 02:01 AM   #2204
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I can't stop laughing about the fact that fanboys are still heavily applauding the drop from almost 100k to 30k.
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Old 24th May 2022, 02:04 AM   #2205
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There's certainly a whiff of "boy who cried wolf" about this thread, but of course the boy was actually right - eventually. Whether that will be true in this case I am not remotely qualified to guess.
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Old 24th May 2022, 02:20 AM   #2206
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
There's certainly a whiff of "boy who cried wolf" about this thread, but of course the boy was actually right - eventually. Whether that will be true in this case I am not remotely qualified to guess.
I doubt if we've seen the last Bitcoin bubble (nice to see psionl0 acknowledging that this alleged currency has bubbles) but the upcoming recession could put an enormous strain on it. People are going to want to liquidate their positions so they can pay for things like rent and food. If there's any trouble with that i.e. people having trouble turning their Bitcoins into dollars, confidence in Bitcoin could collapse.
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Old 24th May 2022, 03:26 AM   #2207
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
There's certainly a whiff of "boy who cried wolf" about this thread, but of course the boy was actually right - eventually. Whether that will be true in this case I am not remotely qualified to guess.
I am not about "Tee hee, lookit me, I was right about Bitcoin." I won't have an existential crisis when Bitcoin goes back up to 100k, there are certainly many rich fanboys who could make this happen within the next five minutes.

I am about the fanboys who conveniently ignore the fact that Bitcoin is what it is through a not-so-well hidden Ponzi Scheme. The people who are the most angry about criticism are the ones who have a big chunk of money "invested" and are now "patiently" waiting to become millionaires. ETA: While repeatedly and most dishonestly telling us how "useful" Bitcoin is for X,Y and Z while it's ALL about "I want to become rich fast and then I will ignore Bitcoin completely"

Last edited by EaglePuncher; 24th May 2022 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 24th May 2022, 03:50 AM   #2208
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Bitcoin has made a monkey out of everybody who ever said that there will never be a bigger bubble than the last one..
Iss that a good thing?
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Old 24th May 2022, 04:02 AM   #2209
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
I am about the fanboys who conveniently ignore the fact that Bitcoin is what it is through a not-so-well hidden Ponzi Scheme.
ftfy.

A Ponzi/Pyramid/etc scheme is run by somebody who profits from all those he recruits to "invest" in his scheme. A few early entrants may also profit before the scam falls apart.

Until you can identify who is running bitcoin and how much they have made from it and how they are recruiting investors, you are just posting random words.
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Old 24th May 2022, 04:03 AM   #2210
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Iss that a good thing?
It is not so much about whether the price cycles are good or bad as it is about whether the current crop of doomsday prophets are any better than the idiots that preceded them (and made the exact same posts).

The main negative is that the more expensive bitcoin becomes, the more energy will be wasted mining it.
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Old 24th May 2022, 04:51 AM   #2211
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Eventually you will run out of bigger fools because the population of the Earth is finite and the ones with real money to spend on Bitcoin are in even shorter supply.
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.

Even assuming that the global population is a limiting factor on demand, at 7 billion+ it could be centuries before any sort of limit is reached. But in reality, it is the amount of fiat currency that is available that would impose a "limit" on how much is used for speculation and as long as currency continues to be printed, there will never be any limit.
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Old 24th May 2022, 06:09 AM   #2212
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.
But there is a real underpinning of the value of other commodities. Speculate on aluminum futures and the aluminum is unlikely to be worth remarkably less that what you paid for it.

Bitcoin is much more a collectable than a commodity, and collectables come in and out of fashion and can easily crash in value and stay worth very little(few physical objects are worth nothing). What is MMO gold worth after they close down the last server? It was a commodity that was worth real money at one point, but now is worth nothing.

Which is the point, bitcoin is only a speculative value, it has no hard and fast thing underpinning its value.
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Old 24th May 2022, 06:48 AM   #2213
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
You do realize that exactly 2 years ago Bitcoin was selling for under $10K?
And $3k few months before that (namely March 2020).

But Luna certainly got blasted. Would be interesting to know how exactly that happened. Btw. AFAIK this whole current 'collapse' is caused by just that.

But Bitcoin itself is just fine. If there is something looming over its existence, it's the environmental impact, which may lead to regulation. Lower price will postpone that. First media will stop caring, second the impact will actually lower, as it will be less profitable to mine.
If we reach new ATH, it will become hot topic again though.
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Old 24th May 2022, 06:50 AM   #2214
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.
Most commodities have some core of people that want to buy them to consume them. But you are right. Theoretically, the same thing could happen with any commodity. Explain how that makes it good?

Quote:
Even assuming that the global population is a limiting factor on demand
What do you mean "assuming"?

Quote:
at 7 billion+ it could be centuries before any sort of limit is reached. But in reality, it is the amount of fiat currency that is available that would impose a "limit" on how much is used for speculation and as long as currency continues to be printed, there will never be any limit.
Well, seven billion is an over estimate. From that number, you have got to remove anybody who doesn't have access to the Internet, anybody who is sceptical of Bitcoin or has no interest in it, anybody who lives in a jurisdiction where it is illegal to trade in cryptocurrencies, and anybody who doesn't have the money to spend. I suspect once you do that we are not so far from the limit, especially when more disasters like Terra luna get into the mainstream news.

And even if all seven billion people are gagging to speculate on Bitcoin, the spurts of exponential growth it puts on will mean it will hit its limit sooner than you think. This is why pyramid and ponzi schemes always break down in the end - the requirement for exponential growth soon outstrips the number of available suckers.
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Old 24th May 2022, 06:51 AM   #2215
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
ftfy.

A Ponzi/Pyramid/etc scheme is run by somebody who profits from all those he recruits to "invest" in his scheme. A few early entrants may also profit before the scam falls apart.

Until you can identify who is running bitcoin and how much they have made from it and how they are recruiting investors, you are just posting random words.
"I don't allow criticism of my prreeeecioussss!!"

How much do you have locked upinvested in Bitcoin? How good is your sleep?
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:00 AM   #2216
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
"I don't allow criticism of my prreeeecioussss!!"

How much do you have locked upinvested in Bitcoin? How good is your sleep?
It's interesting, because your characterisation of Bitcoin doesn't meet the exact definition of a ponzi scheme, your words are completely meaningless. Can you say "false dichotomy"?
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:16 AM   #2217
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But there is a real underpinning of the value of other commodities. Speculate on aluminum futures and the aluminum is unlikely to be worth remarkably less that what you paid for it.

Bitcoin is much more a collectable than a commodity, and collectables come in and out of fashion and can easily crash in value and stay worth very little(few physical objects are worth nothing). What is MMO gold worth after they close down the last server? It was a commodity that was worth real money at one point, but now is worth nothing.

Which is the point, bitcoin is only a speculative value, it has no hard and fast thing underpinning its value.
That's what makes the essence of bitcoin hard to pin down. It isn't inherently suspect or really even novel as much as the execution of the concept is unworkable and largely stupid.

All of the above can be said about the dollar just that we trust the US government to keep their currency way way more than people running an MMO and also way more than some algorithm drawn up by someone years ago who hated the idea of the Fed. It all goes back to fiat currency being arguably the greatest human advancement in history and how much that pisses some people off who hate the idea of collective trust in economic experts guided by a government.

Even as to the hybrid financial instrument / collectables it isn't novel. Somewhere I have a certificate for 100 shares of Worlds of Wonder I was given as a gift the 80s. Totally worthless in the conventional sense, but I imagine somewhere someone would pay for it because they have fond memories of the original Teddy Ruxpin. Or just like to collect stock certificates from notorious bankrupted corporations.

Bitcoin even after collapse would have value with some people. It's just too famous and notorious that absent some structural collapse of the ledger some people are going to want to have it as a sort of keepsake. People are weird.

Last edited by Suddenly; 24th May 2022 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:22 AM   #2218
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
"I don't allow criticism of my prreeeecioussss!!"

How much do you have locked upinvested in Bitcoin? How good is your sleep?
Inability to address the argument noted.
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:25 AM   #2219
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
It's interesting, because your characterisation of Bitcoin doesn't meet the exact definition of a ponzi scheme, your words are completely meaningless. Can you say "false dichotomy"?
Bitcoin doesn't even remotely resemble a Ponzi scheme. You are just using faulty logic:

"Ponzi schemes are bad. Bitcoin is bad. Therefore bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme". (ie "All cats have 4 legs .....")
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:41 AM   #2220
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Inability to address the argument noted.
Translation: "You're stoooopid!"
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:48 AM   #2221
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
I can't stop laughing about the fact that fanboys are still heavily applauding the drop from almost 100k to 30k.
Which exactly shows how little you know about bitcoin.
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Old 24th May 2022, 07:56 AM   #2222
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Which exactly shows how little you know about bitcoin.
Please enlighten me, wise one!
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Old 24th May 2022, 09:45 AM   #2223
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The main negative is that the more expensive bitcoin becomes, the more energy will be wasted mining it.
And that right there is the whopper that makes me not want to touch it and to lose some respect for anyone who is willing to.
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Old 24th May 2022, 09:47 AM   #2224
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"It destroys the environment but lets you not pay taxes and has literally no other purpose"

No wonder Republican Trolls are worshipping it like a golden calf.
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Old 24th May 2022, 11:29 AM   #2225
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This thread appears to be where people go to practice arguing like our resident far right wing trolls. Constant strawmaning, repeating false statements that have been repeatedly addressed, attacking posters as fanboys or shills not because they're actually pro bitcoin but because they aren't vehemently against it.
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Old 24th May 2022, 11:52 AM   #2226
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
This thread appears to be where people go to practice arguing like our resident far right wing trolls. Constant strawmaning, repeating false statements that have been repeatedly addressed, attacking posters as fanboys or shills not because they're actually pro bitcoin but because they aren't vehemently against it.
Yeah, the #1 Fanboy in this thread is just "not vehemently against Bitcoin". Sure, uh huh.

ETA:

I searched for "Bitcoin Ponzi scheme", found a lot of articles. Then I searched for "bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme" and found this hilarious "article" which could have been written by our resident #1 fanboy himself.

https://medium.com/crypto-unchained/...e-fdb341f7bf22

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Old 24th May 2022, 11:53 AM   #2227
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
This thread appears to be where people go to practice arguing like our resident far right wing trolls. Constant strawmaning, repeating false statements that have been repeatedly addressed, attacking posters as fanboys or shills not because they're actually pro bitcoin but because they aren't vehemently against it.
Here's some JPEGS of Apes for your emotional distress. I hear they were worth millions.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:10 PM   #2228
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why do people think this nonsense has any value? This is "true" of every commodity that is speculated on.
"Other commodities" have utility, crypto does not.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:45 PM   #2229
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You see ? Only serious discussion here.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:51 PM   #2230
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Yeah, the #1 Fanboy in this thread is just "not vehemently against Bitcoin". Sure, uh huh.

ETA:

I searched for "Bitcoin Ponzi scheme", found a lot of articles. Then I searched for "bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme" and found this hilarious "article" which could have been written by our resident #1 fanboy himself.

https://medium.com/crypto-unchained/...e-fdb341f7bf22
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's some JPEGS of Apes for your emotional distress. I hear they were worth millions.
Thanks for immediately providing examples supporting my statement.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:53 PM   #2231
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
You see ? Only serious discussion here.
Yeah, your oneliners really contribute to the serious discussion.
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Old 24th May 2022, 01:53 PM   #2232
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Thanks for immediately providing examples supporting my statement.
Thanks for ignoring the link I posted and thanks for posting snarky sideline comments. Really adds value.
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Old 24th May 2022, 06:56 PM   #2233
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
"Other commodities" have utility, crypto does not.
Yes, all that gold bullion stored at Fort Knox stops Fort Knox from floating away.
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Old 24th May 2022, 08:06 PM   #2234
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Yes, all that gold bullion stored at Fort Knox stops Fort Knox from floating away.
Where it's stored is irrelevant. Gold has utility, in addition to it's industrial uses gold is resistant to corrosion so maintains it's shine, it's also malleable and easy to work making it ideal for making desirable decorative items and jewelry.
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Old 24th May 2022, 09:01 PM   #2235
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Where it's stored is irrelevant. Gold has utility, in addition to it's industrial uses gold is resistant to corrosion so maintains it's shine, it's also malleable and easy to work making it ideal for making desirable decorative items and jewelry.
What rubbish. Regardless of its potential industrial applications, most gold in the world is just dead weight and used solely as a store of value. It is because of this primary purpose that whenever gold is used elsewhere, it has to be used sparingly because it is too expensive.

The utility of bitcoin has been explained many times before and I am sure that you have seen these explanations. You are just pretending that there has never been a discussion of bitcoin's utility so that you can recycle ancient arguments.
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Old 24th May 2022, 11:33 PM   #2236
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What rubbish. Regardless of its potential industrial applications, most gold in the world is just dead weight and used solely as a store of value. It is because of this primary purpose that whenever gold is used elsewhere, it has to be used sparingly because it is too expensive.

The utility of bitcoin has been explained many times before and I am sure that you have seen these explanations. You are just pretending that there has never been a discussion of bitcoin's utility so that you can recycle ancient arguments.
Yes, dodging taxes, buying drugs, buying child porn, holding until one gets rich and then never buy bitcoin again Really great!
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Old 25th May 2022, 01:59 AM   #2237
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Bitcoin doesn't even remotely resemble a Ponzi scheme.
Yes it does. The profits of the early adopters are funded by the stakes of the late comers. So while it's not strictly a ponzi scheme, it does share some characteristics.


Quote:
"Ponzi schemes are bad. Bitcoin is bad. Therefore bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme". (ie "All cats have 4 legs .....")
If anybody was using that logic, you might have a point but they aren't, so you don't. If you had said

"ponzi schemes are bad. Bitcoin resembles a ponzi scheme. Therefore Bitcoin is bad",

you'd have been closer to the truth but even then it is a stretch. There are many reasons why Bitcoin is bad, only some of which are features it has in common with ponzi schemes.

Last edited by jeremyp; 25th May 2022 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 25th May 2022, 02:17 AM   #2238
jeremyp
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What rubbish. Regardless of its potential industrial applications,
The utility of bitcoin has been explained many times before
Yes it's great for doing things that are illegal (although not as great as many of the criminals think). For doing things that are legal, US dollars work much better. Then there's the really negative aspects like the energy consumption and its inherently deflationary nature.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:35 AM   #2239
lomiller
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What rubbish. Regardless of its potential industrial applications, most gold in the world is just dead weight and used solely as a store of value.
That's not how utility and value work. The fact that someone else wants to buy it for the utility it represents is why it has value and why you can speculate on its future value.

BTW the largest market for gold by far is India where it's turned into jewelry and has cultural significance. It's not, as you falsely claim, being sold to someone to sit in a vault as a "store of value" (which is a dumb concept in it's own right, but as they say you can fool some of the people all the time)

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The utility of bitcoin has been explained many times before and I am sure that you have seen these explanations. You are just pretending that there has never been a discussion of bitcoin's utility so that you can recycle ancient arguments.
Lies. You know you haven't defended the utility of bitcoin. You continue to follow your standard MO of ignoring the arguments presented then lie about it later and say you have answered them when you clearly have not. Most people have caught on by this point so you are not fooling anyone.

The tiny bit of utility bitcoin provides criminals and scammers is vastly outweighed by the lost utility of the electricity and computer hardware hardware required to mine it. The net utility of bitcoin is deeply deeply negative. The wealth being destroyed by bitcoin is astounding.
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Old 25th May 2022, 06:44 AM   #2240
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Originally Posted by EaglePuncher View Post
Yes, dodging taxes, buying drugs, buying child porn, holding until one gets rich and then never buy bitcoin again Really great!
Bitcoin isn't even useful for this anymore. The early years of being used to buy drugs off the dark web were an anomaly. The public ledger is easy to track and there are plenty of tools out there for cops or others to track transactions.

Any usefulness as a way to engage in black market deals was probably more to do with novelty than anything. The only exception would be for ransomware, but these invariably rely on the fact that the operators are overseas and beyond the reach of law enforcement than any anonymity granted by bitcoin payments.

Other cryptos claim to provide anonymity for transactions, but bitcoin hasn't been well suited for this for some time now.

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 25th May 2022 at 06:48 AM.
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