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Old 3rd November 2021, 09:17 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
I'm not at all unhappy that Covid continues to mean that mandatory fun is still out of the question.
How nice. We had to remote in via Teams to have our mandatory holiday party last year. Cameras required to be on.

At least I got some compliments on my gracious home which was beautifully decorated: people actually thought it was a Teams fake background until they saw me move around in it.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 12:56 PM   #442
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*Half groans, half cringes*

One of our junior techs got into mild (internal) trouble (long story short he got a stuck on a problem and basically spammed our upper echelon of network engineers and a couple of managers, jumping like two levels of escalation.)

I mean it's nothing too bad, we're not talking like anything career ending and the upper peeps seemed more annoyed at being bothered than actually any kind of "How dare you speak to me directly you peon" angry.

But it seriously has like... shaken this kid. I mean maybe it's because I'm military and an ass chewing that would leave a normal person with psychological scares is almost quaint to me. (You haven't lived until you've been yelled at by a future member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who you had to wake up at 3 in the morning to tell them a major system was down). But he's acting like he's career is ruined.

I sympathize with him somewhat because our escalation process takes time and our clients want everything fixed sometime between now and "why isn't it already fixed" and it's no fun to get stuck in the middle of that, so it's an understandable mistake if still a mistake.

Hope he can shake it off. He's a decent tech overall.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:00 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
How nice. We had to remote in via Teams to have our mandatory holiday party last year. Cameras required to be on.

At least I got some compliments on my gracious home which was beautifully decorated: people actually thought it was a Teams fake background until they saw me move around in it.
Do they have alcohol at these mandatory parties? The ones that aren't remote, I mean?
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Old 3rd November 2021, 03:48 PM   #444
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Do they have alcohol at these mandatory parties? The ones that aren't remote, I mean?
Of course not.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 03:52 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
How nice. We had to remote in via Teams to have our mandatory holiday party last year. Cameras required to be on.

At least I got some compliments on my gracious home which was beautifully decorated: people actually thought it was a Teams fake background until they saw me move around in it.
I would have arranged a fake background. And a fake foreground - cardboard cutout of myself with a downcast face wearing a party hat. Like this.

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Old 3rd November 2021, 03:56 PM   #446
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Don't they all have loops now? Just record yourself for 30 seconds. include picking up a beverage and taking a sip.

Then just play that back while you step away.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 04:01 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Half groans, half cringes*

One of our junior techs got into mild (internal) trouble (long story short he got a stuck on a problem and basically spammed our upper echelon of network engineers and a couple of managers, jumping like two levels of escalation.)

I mean it's nothing too bad, we're not talking like anything career ending and the upper peeps seemed more annoyed at being bothered than actually any kind of "How dare you speak to me directly you peon" angry.

But it seriously has like... shaken this kid. I mean maybe it's because I'm military and an ass chewing that would leave a normal person with psychological scares is almost quaint to me. (You haven't lived until you've been yelled at by a future member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who you had to wake up at 3 in the morning to tell them a major system was down). But he's acting like he's career is ruined.

I sympathize with him somewhat because our escalation process takes time and our clients want everything fixed sometime between now and "why isn't it already fixed" and it's no fun to get stuck in the middle of that, so it's an understandable mistake if still a mistake.

Hope he can shake it off. He's a decent tech overall.
I tend to take a somewhat mercenary approach to such things: no condemnation or praise at work means anything unless it's accompanied with a pay cut or pay rise.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 04:05 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
Don't they all have loops now? Just record yourself for 30 seconds. include picking up a beverage and taking a sip.

Then just play that back while you step away.
Damn, I wish I lived in y'all's dream world! When I say "mandatory work party" did you think it would be like a real party? Eating, drinking, chilling? Of course not! There were mandatory activities! Filling out "fun" worksheets related to holidays. A "fun" scavenger hunt in our own houses! A "fun" craft! And of course, "fun" "getting to know each other better" questionaires and surveys.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 04:38 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Damn, I wish I lived in y'all's dream world! When I say "mandatory work party" did you think it would be like a real party? Eating, drinking, chilling? Of course not! There were mandatory activities! Filling out "fun" worksheets related to holidays. A "fun" scavenger hunt in our own houses! A "fun" craft! And of course, "fun" "getting to know each other better" questionaires and surveys.
Seriously, don't you know when to get an unexpected broken finger that gets instantly better overnight praise Jeebus? Can't work the mouse! Here's a picture of my fabulous house interior design instead. See you Monday.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 04:56 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Seriously, don't you know when to get an unexpected broken finger that gets instantly better overnight praise Jeebus? Can't work the mouse! Here's a picture of my fabulous house interior design instead. See you Monday.
I'm far too professional to do such a thing! What I did was I put my laptop on the coffee table facing away from the TV and watched DVDs with the sound off and the closed captioning on. From the perspective of the camera it looked like I was absorbed in the festivities of the team.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 05:30 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Damn, I wish I lived in y'all's dream world! When I say "mandatory work party" did you think it would be like a real party? Eating, drinking, chilling? Of course not! There were mandatory activities! Filling out "fun" worksheets related to holidays. A "fun" scavenger hunt in our own houses! A "fun" craft! And of course, "fun" "getting to know each other better" questionaires and surveys.
Ugh. My worst nightmare. I would flat out refuse to participate.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 06:17 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ugh. My worst nightmare. I would flat out refuse to participate.
Teamwork, I have been informed, makes the dream work.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 06:43 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Teamwork, I have been informed, makes the dream work.
That's NOT "teamwork". That's being forced to play in the orchestra at the gates of Auschwitz.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 06:49 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Teamwork, I have been informed, makes the dream work.

“Teamwork makes the dream work” — Freddy Krueger


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Old 3rd November 2021, 08:30 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
“Teamwork makes the dream work” — Freddy Krueger
Heh, that's pretty good. On my last team there was much hilarity when one of us received an email from someone in another department. The email itself was uninteresting, but she had (against company policy) a huge email signature including in calligraphic font "Teamwork Makes The Dream Work!!!!!!!" (there may have been more exclamation marks) in hot pink, with a graphic background of rainbows and flowers and unicorns etc. It looked like Lisa Frank had taken acid with the Care Bears and the My Little Ponies. Someone knew this lady and said it was definitely not ironic or her being funny, it was one million percent sincere.
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Old 4th November 2021, 10:59 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Can I try an analogy? 100 years ago office workers didn't think they "weren't ink people" and asked for help dipping a nib in an inkwell or sharpening a pencil again. They knew the basics of *using* the tools of their trade. They'd gone past the days if cutting their own goose quills and expected proper pens with metal nibs which they didn't make or know how to make.
What annoys me though is when they go and change something that I knew how to do for no reason and I have to re-learn what I used to know.

Like when they came out with a new browser that had no visible menu bar, until you press the Alt key. Just have menu bar always visible. It's a feature that makes the experience worse, not better. I don't like it when they change things that I'm used to.

Apple is particularly bad in my experience. When they come out with new operating systems, I often found that functions I used all the time were no longer available. How is that better?
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Old 5th November 2021, 12:20 AM   #457
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I may have said this before, I'm not sure, but one of the nicest things about my current job is knowing stuff. People come to me for information and I have it to hand and can answer them, mostly without having to look anything up. If I do need to look it up, I know where to find it. It's really cool.
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Old 5th November 2021, 06:15 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I don't like it when they change things that I'm used to.
And that's... sorta fine until you take it to the level of "I can no longer drive my car because someone changed my radio station presets."

1/3 of a company literally shutting down, as in coming into work on Monday, logging into their computers, and refusing to open their e-mail because the icon moved from one side of the screen to the other side of the screen, which is a literal, non-hyperbolic real world example that I had to deal with, is not.

Moving from Office 2010 to Office 2013 can be a minor annoyance, it shouldn't be a "I've been pulled out of Plato's Cave" existential crisis that leaves you unable to function.
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Old 5th November 2021, 08:16 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Moving from Office 2010 to Office 2013 can be a minor annoyance, it shouldn't be a "I've been pulled out of Plato's Cave" existential crisis that leaves you unable to function.
Clippy returns = existence is meaningless suffering.
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Old 5th November 2021, 08:29 AM   #460
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Just now.

"Hey Joe you know the (Department's Name) record storage room?"
"Yep, I know it."
"We are going to turn it into 4 cubicles."
"That's a storage room. Is there any power outlets?"
"Just one."
"Any data drops?"
"None."
"Have you put in a request to have any computers or phones or devices ordered?"
"Not yet."
"Do you know when the actual physical cubicle and desk setups will be delivered and setup?"
"Not yet."
"When do you want people in there?"
"We want to go live in two weeks."
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Old 5th November 2021, 03:51 PM   #461
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ugh. My worst nightmare. I would flat out refuse to participate.
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Teamwork, I have been informed, makes the dream work.
About twenty years ago a supervisor, not mine, in fact we were of equal status, took it in himself to demand from me, in front of my team, why I wasn't down to attend the "party" that the company has decreed for the following Saturday. After overcoming the urge to tell him to go **** himself I told him that I wasn't attending because I had better things to do with my time, that because I worked for a company didn't mean I wished to socialise with them, or him, and to mind his own damn business.
I then stood up, told him to get out of my way, and complained to his boss's boss.
He was required to apologise.
******* idiot.
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Old 7th November 2021, 07:47 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Damn, I wish I lived in y'all's dream world! When I say "mandatory work party" did you think it would be like a real party? Eating, drinking, chilling? Of course not! There were mandatory activities! Filling out "fun" worksheets related to holidays. A "fun" scavenger hunt in our own houses! A "fun" craft! And of course, "fun" "getting to know each other better" questionaires and surveys.
Oh gawd. Please tell me they didn't make you do that on your own time. It was bad enough when I had to go to that crap on company time and not get my actual work done.
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Old 7th November 2021, 08:47 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Oh gawd. Please tell me they didn't make you do that on your own time. It was bad enough when I had to go to that crap on company time and not get my actual work done.
Well, it was during the workday so "company time"...but I ended up having to work extra hours for no extra pay to do all the work I couldn't do in that time, so I think it worked out to being on my time after all.
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Old 7th November 2021, 09:47 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by BowlOfRed View Post
Don't they all have loops now? Just record yourself for 30 seconds. include picking up a beverage and taking a sip.

Then just play that back while you step away.
Oooo, I do like that one! Tell me more!
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Old 7th November 2021, 09:48 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Well, it was during the workday so "company time"...but I ended up having to work extra hours for no extra pay to do all the work I couldn't do in that time, so I think it worked out to being on my time after all.
Claim overtime, then. At least if they are going to torture you, you should get paid for it.
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Old 8th November 2021, 06:16 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Claim overtime, then. At least if they are going to torture you, you should get paid for it.
I'm in America, overtime isn't a thing for most people here.
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Old 9th November 2021, 12:38 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm in America, overtime isn't a thing for most people here.
I had the expectation of unpaid overtime dropped in me when I was seconded to USAia, years ago. I laughed at my "boss", reminded her that my contract was in a civilised country and that I would be paid for every hour I worked, regardless of her beliefs.
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Old 9th November 2021, 12:48 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I had the expectation of unpaid overtime dropped in me when I was seconded to USAia, years ago. I laughed at my "boss", reminded her that my contract was in a civilised country and that I would be paid for every hour I worked, regardless of her beliefs.
We lose our healthcare if we lose our jobs, and most of us can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason, without advance notice, and without severance pay or anything. It's truly a paradise here...for those who own companies.
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Old 9th November 2021, 01:13 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
We lose our healthcare if we lose our jobs, and most of us can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason, without advance notice, and without severance pay or anything. It's truly a paradise here...for those who own companies.
Hence my reference to a "civilised" county, rather than USAia.
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Old 9th November 2021, 01:32 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Hence my reference to a "civilised" county, rather than USAia.
I take exception to that remark! We're very civilized here: we always say "excuse me" when we fart on the dinner table.
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Old 9th November 2021, 01:55 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I take exception to that remark! We're very civilized here: we always say "excuse me" when we fart on the dinner table.
How rude!

Originally Posted by Emily Post
Acceptable noises. These are noises such as burping or the sounds accompanying choking, to which the response should come from the noisemaker himself, provided that the choking was not complete, in which case he is absolved of all social responsibility except that of having left his papers in order. Society acknowledges that these noises are made from time to time, but does not dignify them with a response. The offender says “Excuse me,” and the subject is considered closed.

Unacceptable noises. Miss Manners does not plan to mention them, chiefly because they are unmentionable, but you all know who you are. What they are. At any rate, these are noises that are acknowledged by neither the noisemaker nor the noise recipient, because socially they do not exist.
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Old 9th November 2021, 02:04 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Heck, even computer people do it. Almost 2 decades ago I was training customer technicians (at another site) on some of our equipment being installed. As always, the first thing you do when there is an error is to look at the error list to see what it is.
Coincidentally, Ms Theprestige was venting about work this morning. She's very much a computer person. Strong technical aptitude, better troubleshooter than I am. She's telling me about how she doesn't understand SSL certs at all. "I've just blocked that out as too weird and complicated," she says.

"I thought so too," I say. "But then I started looking into it, and it turns out it's really quite simple."

"I don't want to hear it. I've blocked it out. I don't even read the error messages."

"But the error messages are super easy and clear," I say. "Just like all the other error messages you grok without breaking stride."

"Nope," she says. "I'm gonna keep blocking it out."

I get that. I'm the same way. All my computer aptitude, there's still mysterious domains, that I had to make an effort to demystify. This business of blocking out clear, helpful error messages is something that even actual computer people do.

A lot of people get stuck a lot earlier in the journey, and reflexively block out a lot more than just SSL. And I bet every single computer person in this thread has some area of computer technology that they just ignore. "Nope, don't need to know that. Never gonna learn that." Etc.

The IT community needs less snobbery towards end users, and a lot more understanding and empathy.
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Old 9th November 2021, 05:44 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Coincidentally, Ms Theprestige was venting about work this morning. She's very much a computer person. Strong technical aptitude, better troubleshooter than I am. She's telling me about how she doesn't understand SSL certs at all. "I've just blocked that out as too weird and complicated," she says.

"I thought so too," I say. "But then I started looking into it, and it turns out it's really quite simple."

"I don't want to hear it. I've blocked it out. I don't even read the error messages."

"But the error messages are super easy and clear," I say. "Just like all the other error messages you grok without breaking stride."

"Nope," she says. "I'm gonna keep blocking it out."

I get that. I'm the same way. All my computer aptitude, there's still mysterious domains, that I had to make an effort to demystify. This business of blocking out clear, helpful error messages is something that even actual computer people do.

A lot of people get stuck a lot earlier in the journey, and reflexively block out a lot more than just SSL. And I bet every single computer person in this thread has some area of computer technology that they just ignore. "Nope, don't need to know that. Never gonna learn that." Etc.

The IT community needs less snobbery towards end users, and a lot more understanding and empathy.
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Old 10th November 2021, 12:33 AM   #474
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post

The IT community needs less snobbery towards end users, and a lot more understanding and empathy.
I agree. Users don't, for example, want to notice the tool they use, it should be an invisible part of their work and just let them get on. I look on this more as a venting thread. And, as a side note, for most of my career my end users have been IT staff, programmers, ops, service delivery etc. It brings back memories of the newsgroup alt.sysadmin.recovery.
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Old 11th November 2021, 01:42 PM   #475
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Anyone here in devops/sre?
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Old 11th November 2021, 05:13 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Anyone here in devops/sre?
I am! Just got these yesterday. (Coincidence yes, but true!)
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Old 11th November 2021, 05:52 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Anyone here in devops/sre?
I'm an SRE, but I don't really consider myself one. I think I'm a horrible developer. I'm a 1990's sysadmin with a 2010's title.

Being oncall is horrible in some ways, but it's a lot more fun than writing code. The other day someone accidentally used our automation system to delete our automation system. When you ask the automation system to put itself back, that doesn't work....

Last edited by BowlOfRed; 11th November 2021 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 11th November 2021, 07:09 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Anyone here in devops/sre?
Yep.
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Old 12th November 2021, 06:56 AM   #479
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Dear Users: when someone names something with a very elaborate name it might be a clue to what it is. So you don't have to ask questions like "Hey, TM, this metric that you labelled 'Metric 4: Weekly Intake of New Units YTD 2021 (includes only Types 1,3,4,9,11,19) In Departments A-E, G, and J *see Tab B for complete logic'...what does it represent?" Gee, Molly, I don't know. Perhaps it's an annual count of fish consumption per capita among Norwegian albinos. There's just no way to tell.
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Old 12th November 2021, 07:58 AM   #480
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Dear Users: when someone names something with a very elaborate name it might be a clue to what it is. So you don't have to ask questions like "Hey, TM, this metric that you labelled 'Metric 4: Weekly Intake of New Units YTD 2021 (includes only Types 1,3,4,9,11,19) In Departments A-E, G, and J *see Tab B for complete logic'...what does it represent?" Gee, Molly, I don't know. Perhaps it's an annual count of fish consumption per capita among Norwegian albinos. There's just no way to tell.
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