The Jan. 6 Investigation - Page 12

Crazy Chainsaw · 20th August 2021, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated.

You have absolutely no Idea How dumb the Insurrection actually was.

Stacyhs · 20th August 2021, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.

In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Tell me more. Tell me about the coup plot. Tell me about the conspiracy to assassinate government officials. Who were the ringleaders of this plot? Who were the operatives? Where are the informers who blew the conspiracy wide open?

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."

I wasn't discussing Parsman's statement about assassinating gov't officials. That's why I didn't quote it or reply to it. My reply was to your post regarding the FBI report and whether it was an attempted coup or not.

The FBI only says they were disorganized and had no clear plans about what they were going to do after they stopped the verification. But that's the Proud Boys' et al. own incompetency and short-sightedness. No one has ever accused them of being smart. That does not mean they weren't trying to overturn the election. What else do you think "Stop the Steal" means? That they were against shoplifting? Identification theft?

Stacyhs · 20th August 2021, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

You have absolutely no Idea How dumb the Insurrection actually was.

Yes. AS I said, no one has ever accused those people of being smart.

Ziggurat · 20th August 2021, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I wasn't discussing Parsman's statement about assassinating gov't officials.

I was. That was the whole point of my post.

Stacyhs · 20th August 2021, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I was. That was the whole point of my post.

You were responding to what he said in his second post, not his first, which did not include the bit about assassinating gov't officials. That's why you quoted his second post in your reply to him. That is what I was responding to. This really isn't that difficult.

kevbo · 20th August 2021, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated.

In my opinion, Trump and his followers would have trouble planning how to pack a school lunchbox. (Hey, anybody, does the sandwich go on the top or the bottom?)

The operative word being plan, which implies some level of competence. Although, sometimes by chance alone they might get it right. Hence the scary nature of January 6.

acbytesla · 20th August 2021, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

You have absolutely no Idea How dumb the Insurrection actually was.

And yet it almost worked.

There are a lot of individual pieces to this puzzle that show the plan was much more then many people realize.

Crazy Chainsaw · 21st August 2021, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

And yet it almost worked.

There are a lot of individual pieces to this puzzle that show the plan was much more then many people realize.

Actually it was doomed to failure by the very people who tried to pull it off.

smartcooky · 21st August 2021, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated.

Yeah... the Brains Trust

smartcooky · 21st August 2021, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to:

A plot does need to be organized, even if not well organized. But even the conspiracies which were organized (though not well) were apparently not conspiracies to commit a coup or assassinate government officials. Quoting from my link:

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."

If that is the case, then it makes Brooks, Giuliani and Trump even more culpable for what happened. They can no longer hide behind a claim that the insurrectionists had already plotted ahead of time and they that had nothing to do with those plans.

The lack of a defined goal that the insurrectionists wanted to achieve means it can be argued even more strongly that Giuliani's "trial by combat" comment, Brooks' act of imploring people to "Kick some ass and take some names" and Trump's direction to the crowd to march on the capitol, "fight like hell" and "take back our country" shows it was they who incited the insurrection.

The Great Zaganza · 21st August 2021, 04:14 AM

most activist conspiracists, but especially the TrumpRightFOP, are Underpant Gomes at heart: they assume that their profit/prophet will come if they just do x,y and z.
In that sense, the Jan 6th insurrection was planned as well as was possible.

quadraginta · 21st August 2021, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

<snip>

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."

Not unlike a dog chasing a passing car.

Crazy Chainsaw · 21st August 2021, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

most activist conspiracists, but especially the TrumpRightFOP, are Underpant Gomes at heart: they assume that their profit/prophet will come if they just do x,y and z.
In that sense, the Jan 6th insurrection was planned as well as was possible.

For Years Jerome Corsi, has been saying Trump had a Secret deal with the Military, before Jan 6th he stated Trump wanted to trigger the Insurrection act, The Oath Keepers, Leader voted for Corsi when he was the Candidate for the Constitution party for president.
I wonder where the message came from that Trump wanted an Insurrection, and they would have Military backing?

Crazy Chainsaw · 21st August 2021, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Not unlike a dog chasing a passing car.

This dog actually caught the car and that's not a good thing for the dog.

jimbob · 21st August 2021, 05:09 AM

https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/statu...078968834?s=20

Quote:

Zachary Petrizzo
@ZTPetrizzo
This morning, GOP operative Roger Stone announced that he will be filing a $25 million defamation suit against ABC News over their reporting about his role in January 6th riot.
8:57 PM · Aug 20, 2021·Twitter Web App

This could be fun.

As an aside did Trump's pardon mean that he's not considered a felon?

Ziggurat · 21st August 2021, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

If that is the case, then it makes Brooks, Giuliani and Trump even more culpable for what happened. They can no longer hide behind a claim that the insurrectionists had already plotted ahead of time and they that had nothing to do with those plans.

Yes, they can, because as that quote stated, some of them did have plans to break in. They just didn't have any plans for step 2. It was basically an underpants gnome plan.

Quote:

The lack of a defined goal that the insurrectionists wanted to achieve means it can be argued even more strongly that Giuliani's "trial by combat" comment, Brooks' act of imploring people to "Kick some ass and take some names" and Trump's direction to the crowd to march on the capitol, "fight like hell" and "take back our country" shows it was they who incited the insurrection.

Incitement has a narrow legal definition, for a very good reason. You won't clear that bar.

Crazy Chainsaw · 21st August 2021, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yes, they can, because as that quote stated, some of them did have plans to break in. They just didn't have any plans for step 2. It was basically an underpants gnome plan.

Incitement has a narrow legal definition, for a very good reason. You won't clear that bar.

How about Jerome Corsi literally saying that Trump,wanted a Riot confrontation so he could declare the Insurrection act?
On his now pulled YouTube video?
BASICLY HE CLAIMED,

1 GOP IN CONGRESS WOULD REJECT THE ELECTORS FROM DISPUTED STATES.

2. Pence would Send the VOTES BACK TO THE STATES,

3 BLM and Antifa Would Fight with Trump supporters.

4 Trump declairs Insurrection act,

5 Military Puts Trump back in white house per Secret deal from 2008.

6 Trump then President for life.

Ziggurat · 21st August 2021, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

How about Jerome Corsi literally saying that Trump,wanted a Riot confrontation so he could declare the Insurrection act?

Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction?

I'm not seeing it.

Stacyhs · 21st August 2021, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction?

I'm not seeing it.

Corsi doesn't have to appear in court as a witness if there is documented proof as in videos, tweets, emails, etc. And he would be declared a hostile witness anyway.

mgidm86 · 21st August 2021, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."

"Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!"

Stacyhs · 21st August 2021, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

"Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!"

In addition to Mike Pence:

Quote:

House impeachment manager Stacey Plaskett says Pelosi was rushed to a secure offsite location because some of the rioters publicly declared their intent to harm or kill Pelosi.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/us-c...i-9292031.html

Quote:

"The first of us who got upstairs kicked in Nancy Pelosi's office door and pushed down the halls toward her inner sanctum, the mob howling with rage. 'Crazy Nancy' probably would have been torn into little pieces, but she was nowhere to be seen," said Plaskett, reading from William Calhoun's Facebook account.

Calhoun, a lawyer from Georgia, has since been charged for his role in the Jan. 6th insurrection.

As Plaskett continued her presentation, she offered new video of the mob and its violent attempts to locate Speaker Pelosi.

"Where are you, Nancy? We're looking for you!" bellowed rioters seen in the video. "She's in here," shouted one man, followed by another:

"Nancy? Oh, Nancy? Nancy, where are you, Nancy?"

But I'm sure they were just joking....

Crazy Chainsaw · 21st August 2021, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction?

I'm not seeing it.

No Corsi would definitely lie to Congress, but that Lie could easily be turned into a plea deaĺ,
Corsi also knows the Truth about Russian Collusion and might come clean on that to protect himself.

Ziggurat · 21st August 2021, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Corsi doesn't have to appear in court as a witness if there is documented proof as in videos, tweets, emails, etc. And he would be declared a hostile witness anyway.

Proof of what? His claims?

Why would what he said on a YouTube video be any more credible than what he might have to say under oath? That seems even less credible.

And if you're referring to Corsi claiming there's documented proof that can be relied upn... well, why on earth would you believe him about that?

Ziggurat · 21st August 2021, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

No Corsi would definitely lie to Congress, but that Lie could easily be turned into a plea deaĺ,
Corsi also knows the Truth about Russian Collusion and might come clean on that to protect himself.

Why would you believe Corsi actually knows anything?

Crazy Chainsaw · 22nd August 2021, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Why would you believe Corsi actually knows anything?

Read the Mueller Report Corsi's defense was he had a personal meeting with God.

Funny It was RTV Moscow that asked me to debunk Corsi's 9/11NO Planer theories in February 2008. I suspect Corsi of being a Russian useful idiot for decades with Friends at RTV, Just Like Alex Jones.

Craig4 · 22nd August 2021, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

"Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!"

It seems like they were trying to tell us something but I can't put my finger on it.

Crazy Chainsaw · 22nd August 2021, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

It seems like they were trying to tell us something but I can't put my finger on it.

Trump had a Wonderful Healthcare plan for the Vice President!

Ziggurat · 22nd August 2021, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

But I'm sure they were just joking....

That wasn't the question. The question was what was planned. Violent intent in the moment does not demonstrate a plan. That, in fact, is one of the reasons mobs are so dangerous. They can turn violent even when nobody wanted them to at the start.

Ziggurat · 22nd August 2021, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

Read the Mueller Report Corsi's defense was he had a personal meeting with God.

Funny It was RTV Moscow that asked me to debunk Corsi's 9/11NO Planer theories in February 2008. I suspect Corsi of being a Russian useful idiot for decades with Friends at RTV, Just Like Alex Jones.

Sounds like you agree with me, then, that he's not a credible witness or source.

catsmate · 22nd August 2021, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Are you still sure?
Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources

Sigh, you're not the first Trumpist to present that as some sort of 'gotcha'.

Stacyhs · 22nd August 2021, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

That wasn't the question. The question was what was planned. Violent intent in the moment does not demonstrate a plan. That, in fact, is one of the reasons mobs are so dangerous. They can turn violent even when nobody wanted them to at the start.

Oh, just stop it. Your insistence that Jan. 6 wasn't an attempted coup because it wasn't 'planned' is just a transparent attempt to downplay what happened. What happened on Jan 6 was an attempt to stop the process of a legitimate election and prevent Biden's inauguration.

Coup: "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Did the mob attempt to suddenly and illegally seize the power of the Congress by stopping the verification? YES.
Was the intent to put Trump back in office by declaring he really won the election: YES.

What do you think "Stop the Steal" means?

Stacyhs · 22nd August 2021, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Sigh, you're not the first Trumpist to present that as some sort of 'gotcha'.

Yes...and it doesn't work any better now!

Skeptic Ginger · 23rd August 2021, 03:36 PM

From MSNBC on Friday discussing the planning in plain sight that wasn't found by the FBI (7 minutes 26 seconds):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Stacyhs · 23rd August 2021, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

From MSNBC on Friday discussing the planning in plain sight that wasn't found by the FBI (7 minutes 26 seconds):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The Jan. 6 Commission is seeking the phone records of "several hundred people", including members of Congress. Anyone want to make a bet that's going to include McCarthy?

Crazy Chainsaw · 24th August 2021, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

The Jan. 6 Commission is seeking the phone records of "several hundred people", including members of Congress. Anyone want to make a bet that's going to include McCarthy?

Want to bet it will Inclde Donald John Trump?

Stacyhs · 24th August 2021, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw

Want to bet it will Inclde Donald John Trump?

I do hope so. Oh, I do hope so.

smartcooky · 24th August 2021, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

The Jan. 6 Commission is seeking the phone records of "several hundred people", including members of Congress. Anyone want to make a bet that's going to include McCarthy?

The following GQP Congress Critters will now be coughing in their rompers.

Boebert
Hawley
Taylor-Greene
Jordan
Gosar
Gaetz
Brooks
Johnson
Cruz (maybe?)

Any others?

slyjoe · 25th August 2021, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

The following GQP Congress Critters will now be coughing in their rompers.

Boebert
Hawley
Taylor-Greene
Jordan
Gosar
Gaetz
Brooks
Johnson
Cruz (maybe?)

Any others?

Biggs

shemp · 26th August 2021, 07:07 AM

Once again, Trump does not seem to understand that he is no longer President:

Trump Flips Out at House Committee After It Requests Secret Capitol Riot Documents

Quote:

Former president Donald Trump has threatened to use presidential powers, despite no longer being president. On Wednesday, he said he would invoke executive privilege to block the House Select Committee from investigating documents containing communications tied to the Capitol riots. “Executive privilege will be defended, not just on behalf of my Administration and the Patriots who worked beside me, but on behalf of the Office of the President of the United States and the future of our Nation,” the ex-president said in a statement. Trump’s successor Joe Biden will have the final say over whether the information can be shared, and the Biden administration has said it won’t stand in the way of the committee’s investigation. CNN reports that the documents Trump is trying to block include records from the Departments of Justice, Interior and Defense as well as the National Archives, which host Trump’s records while in office. In his angry statement, Trump also called the committee “a partisan sham and a waste of taxpayer dollars.”

Crazy Chainsaw · 26th August 2021, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by shemp

Once again, Trump does not seem to understand that he is no longer President:

Trump Flips Out at House Committee After It Requests Secret Capitol Riot Documents

Trump still thinks he is King!

20th August 2021, 03:06 PM	#442
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Quote: Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized. In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to: Quote: Originally Posted by theprestige View Post Tell me more. Tell me about the coup plot. Tell me about the conspiracy to assassinate government officials. Who were the ringleaders of this plot? Who were the operatives? Where are the informers who blew the conspiracy wide open? "FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said." I wasn't discussing Parsman's statement about assassinating gov't officials. That's why I didn't quote it or reply to it. *My reply was to your* post regarding the FBI report and whether it was an attempted coup or not.** The FBI only says they were disorganized and had no clear plans about what they were going to do after they stopped the verification. But that's the Proud Boys' et al. own incompetency and short-sightedness. No one has ever accused them of being smart. That does not mean they weren't trying to overturn the election. What else do you think "Stop the Steal" means? That they were against shoplifting? Identification theft?

20th August 2021, 03:07 PM	#444
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I wasn't discussing Parsman's statement about assassinating gov't officials. I was. That was the whole point of my post.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

20th August 2021, 03:21 PM	#446
kevbo Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Rogue Valley, Oregon Posts: 351	Originally Posted by carlitos Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated. In my opinion, Trump and his followers would have trouble planning how to pack a school lunchbox. (Hey, anybody, does the sandwich go on the top or the bottom?) The operative word being plan, which implies some level of competence. Although, sometimes by chance alone they might get it right. Hence the scary nature of January 6.
	Last edited by kevbo; 20th August 2021 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Spelling.

20th August 2021, 03:22 PM	#447
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 30,837	Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw You have absolutely no Idea How dumb the Insurrection actually was. And yet it almost worked. There are a lot of individual pieces to this puzzle that show the plan was much more then many people realize.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st August 2021, 03:43 AM	#449
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,855	Originally Posted by carlitos Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated. Yeah... the Brains Trust
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!

20th August 2021, 03:05 PM	#441
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by carlitos Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated. You have absolutely no Idea How dumb the Insurrection actually was.

20th August 2021, 03:07 PM	#443
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw You have absolutely no Idea How dumb the Insurrection actually was. Yes. AS I said, no one has ever accused those people of being smart.

20th August 2021, 03:13 PM	#445
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by Ziggurat I was. That was the whole point of my post. You were responding to what he said in his second post, not his first, which did not include the bit about assassinating gov't officials. That's why you quoted his second post in your reply to him. That is what I was responding to. This really isn't that difficult.

21st August 2021, 03:12 AM	#448
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by acbytesla And yet it almost worked. There are a lot of individual pieces to this puzzle that show the plan was much more then many people realize. Actually it was doomed to failure by the very people who tried to pull it off.

21st August 2021, 04:02 AM	#450
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,855	Originally Posted by Ziggurat In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to: A plot does need to be organized, even if not well organized. But even the conspiracies which were organized (though not well) were apparently not conspiracies to commit a coup or assassinate government officials. Quoting from my link: "FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said." If that is the case, then it makes Brooks, Giuliani and Trump even more culpable for what happened. They can no longer hide behind a claim that the insurrectionists had already plotted ahead of time and they that had nothing to do with those plans. The lack of a defined goal that the insurrectionists wanted to achieve means it can be argued even more strongly that Giuliani's "trial by combat" comment, Brooks' act of imploring people to "Kick some ass and take some names" and Trump's direction to the crowd to march on the capitol, "fight like hell" and "take back our country" shows it was they who incited the insurrection.
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list! Last edited by smartcooky; 21st August 2021 at 05:11 AM.

21st August 2021, 04:14 AM	#451
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18,347	most activist conspiracists, but especially the TrumpRightFOP, are Underpant Gomes at heart: they assume that their profit/prophet will come if they just do x,y and z. In that sense, the Jan 6th insurrection was planned as well as was possible.
	__________________ "When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me." - Emo Philips Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 21st August 2021 at 04:22 AM.

21st August 2021, 04:36 AM	#452
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,614	Originally Posted by Ziggurat <snip> "FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said." Not unlike a dog chasing a passing car.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

21st August 2021, 04:42 AM	#453
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza most activist conspiracists, but especially the TrumpRightFOP, are Underpant Gomes at heart: they assume that their profit/prophet will come if they just do x,y and z. In that sense, the Jan 6th insurrection was planned as well as was possible. For Years Jerome Corsi, has been saying Trump had a Secret deal with the Military, before Jan 6th he stated Trump wanted to trigger the Insurrection act, The Oath Keepers, Leader voted for Corsi when he was the Candidate for the Constitution party for president. I wonder where the message came from that Trump wanted an Insurrection, and they would have Military backing?

21st August 2021, 04:43 AM	#454
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by quadraginta Not unlike a dog chasing a passing car. This dog actually caught the car and that's not a good thing for the dog.

21st August 2021, 05:09 AM	#455
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,762	https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/statu...078968834?s=20 Quote: Zachary Petrizzo @ZTPetrizzo This morning, GOP operative Roger Stone announced that he will be filing a $25 million defamation suit against ABC News over their reporting about his role in January 6th riot. 8:57 PM · Aug 20, 2021·Twitter Web App This could be fun. As an aside did Trump's pardon mean that he's not considered a felon?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

21st August 2021, 06:12 AM	#456
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by smartcooky If that is the case, then it makes Brooks, Giuliani and Trump even more culpable for what happened. They can no longer hide behind a claim that the insurrectionists had already plotted ahead of time and they that had nothing to do with those plans. Yes, they can, because as that quote stated, some of them did have plans to break in. They just didn't have any plans for step 2. It was basically an underpants gnome plan. Quote: The lack of a defined goal that the insurrectionists wanted to achieve means it can be argued even more strongly that Giuliani's "trial by combat" comment, Brooks' act of imploring people to "Kick some ass and take some names" and Trump's direction to the crowd to march on the capitol, "fight like hell" and "take back our country" shows it was they who incited the insurrection. Incitement has a narrow legal definition, for a very good reason. You won't clear that bar.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

21st August 2021, 06:22 AM	#457
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yes, they can, because as that quote stated, some of them did have plans to break in. They just didn't have any plans for step 2. It was basically an underpants gnome plan. Incitement has a narrow legal definition, for a very good reason. You won't clear that bar. How about Jerome Corsi literally saying that Trump,wanted a Riot confrontation so he could declare the Insurrection act? On his now pulled YouTube video? BASICLY HE CLAIMED, 1 GOP IN CONGRESS WOULD REJECT THE ELECTORS FROM DISPUTED STATES. 2. Pence would Send the VOTES BACK TO THE STATES, 3 BLM and Antifa Would Fight with Trump supporters. 4 Trump declairs Insurrection act, 5 Military Puts Trump back in white house per Secret deal from 2008. 6 Trump then President for life.

21st August 2021, 03:27 PM	#458
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw How about Jerome Corsi literally saying that Trump,wanted a Riot confrontation so he could declare the Insurrection act? Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction? I'm not seeing it.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

21st August 2021, 03:43 PM	#459
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction? I'm not seeing it. Corsi doesn't have to appear in court as a witness if there is documented proof as in videos, tweets, emails, etc. And he would be declared a hostile witness anyway.

21st August 2021, 04:18 PM	#460
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,890	Originally Posted by Ziggurat "FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said." "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!"
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,890	__________________ Thanks and bye.

21st August 2021, 04:30 PM	#461
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by mgidm86 "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" In addition to Mike Pence: Quote: House impeachment manager Stacey Plaskett says Pelosi was rushed to a secure offsite location because some of the rioters publicly declared their intent to harm or kill Pelosi. https://www.firstpost.com/world/us-c...i-9292031.html Quote: "The first of us who got upstairs kicked in Nancy Pelosi's office door and pushed down the halls toward her inner sanctum, the mob howling with rage. 'Crazy Nancy' probably would have been torn into little pieces, but she was nowhere to be seen," said Plaskett, reading from William Calhoun's Facebook account. Calhoun, a lawyer from Georgia, has since been charged for his role in the Jan. 6th insurrection. As Plaskett continued her presentation, she offered new video of the mob and its violent attempts to locate Speaker Pelosi. "Where are you, Nancy? We're looking for you!" bellowed rioters seen in the video. "She's in here," shouted one man, followed by another: "Nancy? Oh, Nancy? Nancy, where are you, Nancy?" But I'm sure they were just joking....

21st August 2021, 05:06 PM	#462
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction? I'm not seeing it. No Corsi would definitely lie to Congress, but that Lie could easily be turned into a plea deaĺ, Corsi also knows the Truth about Russian Collusion and might come clean on that to protect himself.

21st August 2021, 06:34 PM	#463
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Corsi doesn't have to appear in court as a witness if there is documented proof as in videos, tweets, emails, etc. And he would be declared a hostile witness anyway. Proof of what? His claims? Why would what he said on a YouTube video be any more credible than what he might have to say under oath? That seems even less credible. And if you're referring to Corsi claiming there's documented proof that can be relied upn... well, why on earth would you believe him about that?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

21st August 2021, 06:35 PM	#464
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw No Corsi would definitely lie to Congress, but that Lie could easily be turned into a plea deaĺ, Corsi also knows the Truth about Russian Collusion and might come clean on that to protect himself. Why would you believe Corsi actually knows anything?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

22nd August 2021, 05:11 AM	#465
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Why would you believe Corsi actually knows anything? Read the Mueller Report Corsi's defense was he had a personal meeting with God. Funny It was RTV Moscow that asked me to debunk Corsi's 9/11NO Planer theories in February 2008. I suspect Corsi of being a Russian useful idiot for decades with Friends at RTV, Just Like Alex Jones.

22nd August 2021, 06:11 AM	#466
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 25,715	Originally Posted by mgidm86 "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" It seems like they were trying to tell us something but I can't put my finger on it.

22nd August 2021, 06:26 AM	#467
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by Craig4 It seems like they were trying to tell us something but I can't put my finger on it. Trump had a Wonderful Healthcare plan for the Vice President!

22nd August 2021, 06:44 AM	#468
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by Stacyhs But I'm sure they were just joking.... That wasn't the question. The question was what was planned. Violent intent in the moment does not demonstrate a plan. That, in fact, is one of the reasons mobs are so dangerous. They can turn violent even when nobody wanted them to at the start.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

22nd August 2021, 06:45 AM	#469
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,959	Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw Read the Mueller Report Corsi's defense was he had a personal meeting with God. Funny It was RTV Moscow that asked me to debunk Corsi's 9/11NO Planer theories in February 2008. I suspect Corsi of being a Russian useful idiot for decades with Friends at RTV, Just Like Alex Jones. Sounds like you agree with me, then, that he's not a credible witness or source.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

22nd August 2021, 06:56 AM	#470
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,202	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Are you still sure? Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources Sigh, you're not the first Trumpist to present that as some sort of 'gotcha'.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

22nd August 2021, 11:40 AM	#471
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by Ziggurat That wasn't the question. The question was what was planned. Violent intent in the moment does not demonstrate a plan. That, in fact, is one of the reasons mobs are so dangerous. They can turn violent even when nobody wanted them to at the start. Oh, just stop it. Your insistence that Jan. 6 wasn't an attempted coup because it wasn't 'planned' is just a transparent attempt to downplay what happened. What happened on Jan 6 was an attempt to stop the process of a legitimate election and prevent Biden's inauguration. Coup: "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government." Did the mob attempt to suddenly and illegally seize the power of the Congress by stopping the verification? YES. Was the intent to put Trump back in office by declaring he really won the election: YES. What do you think "Stop the Steal" means?

22nd August 2021, 11:42 AM	#472
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by catsmate Sigh, you're not the first Trumpist to present that as some sort of 'gotcha'. Yes...and it doesn't work any better now!

24th August 2021, 05:08 AM	#475
Crazy Chainsaw Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6,882	Originally Posted by Stacyhs The Jan. 6 Commission is seeking the phone records of "several hundred people", including members of Congress. Anyone want to make a bet that's going to include McCarthy? Want to bet it will Inclde Donald John Trump?

24th August 2021, 11:12 AM	#476
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 26,045	Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw Want to bet it will Inclde Donald John Trump? I do hope so. Oh, I do hope so.

24th August 2021, 07:09 PM	#477
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,855	Originally Posted by Stacyhs The Jan. 6 Commission is seeking the phone records of "several hundred people", including members of Congress. Anyone want to make a bet that's going to include McCarthy? The following GQP Congress Critters will now be coughing in their rompers. Boebert Hawley Taylor-Greene Jordan Gosar Gaetz Brooks Johnson Cruz (maybe?) Any others?
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list! Last edited by smartcooky; 24th August 2021 at 07:12 PM.