Good Cop

Steve · 25th July 2022, 10:37 AM

Many threads and comments here criticizing police actions. Most are justified, and I have been a somewhat enthusiastic participant. Had a positive police encounter yesterday - Canadian RCMP - that warrants a mention.

Our daughter was sent home early from work yesterday following a serious asthma attack. An RCMP traffic patrol officer noticed her driving fast and erratically on the highway and pulled her over. As soon as he went to speak with her he noticed a medical emergency was occurring - another asthma attack causing confusion and disorientation due to lack of oxygen. He immediately called paramedics and used his personal experience with asthma with his own daughter to help her through the immediate emergency while waiting for paramedics. He assisted her to get out of the car and onto the stretcher because she was feeling very weak. Once she was safely in the hands of paramedics he called me with details and advised where they were located so that I could attend the scene before the paramedics left. Once she was all sorted out and on her way to hospital he offered to stay with her car at the side of the highway while I fetched her boyfriend to drive it home. He was very pleasant and informative during the entire process. His actions could well have prevented a serious devastating accident. This officer displayed the epitome of professionalism that should be inherent in, and expected of, all police. I have reported and commended his actions to his superiors.

Gord_in_Toronto · 25th July 2022, 12:09 PM

I'm interested in what other responses you'll get in this thread. But isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

Steve · 25th July 2022, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

I'm interested in what other responses you'll get in this thread. But isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

I think so. And perhaps this type of thing happens frequently but never gets reported because it is not "news". I think positive reports are probably as important as the negative.

sarge · 25th July 2022, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

I think positive reports are probably as important as the negative.

I disagree. It is not important that citizens trust the police if the police are actually untrustworthy. If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust.

Steve · 25th July 2022, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by sarge

I disagree. It is not important that citizens trust the police if the police are actually untrustworthy. If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust.

I said nothing about trust. I am still rather negative about the RCMP in its entirety. Especially upper management. The are a couple of high profile cases currently being vetted here in Canada that indicate a lack of trustworthiness and reliability in the force as a whole. I provide the anecdote on its own merits, nothing more. I do think positive reports have value.

Brainster · 25th July 2022, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

I'm interested in what other responses you'll get in this thread. But isn't that the way it's supposed to work?

I do imagine it will cause some cognitive dissonance, until the posters realize this took place in Canada and the person with a medical emergency appears to have been a white woman and not a black man.

PitPat · 25th July 2022, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by sarge

I disagree. It is not important that citizens trust the police if the police are actually untrustworthy. If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust.

I generally agree with the disagreement. News is usually for things going wrong, not what's working like it should. Not saying there shouldn't be a few minutes allotted for a feel-good story, fine. And this one is, and I'm happy that it turned out well for your daughter.

Also might be a cultural difference between how LEOs are trained - erratic young/white female (? could be wrong) driver could be treated differently than others. And confirmed that vehicle is reported not stolen and received word that registered owner has no active warrants. That is, if Canada has adopted radio technology.

Warp12 · 25th July 2022, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by sarge

If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust.

The above is laughable. "What is reported in the attention-hungry media is how we should judge the Police". The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of Police encounters to not involve "dishonest racist thug" activity. Just like the story reported in the OP. The fact that some people think otherwise is directly due to the biased and sensational nature of media reporting.

Sounds like we don't have much to worry about, though...at least in the US. If you consider that the Police make 10 million arrests per year, and have 50-60 million civilian encounters. We're going to need a lot more "bad reports" for these claims of widespread egregious misconduct to be of any overwhelming concern.

After all, we wouldn't want to be alarmists promoting a false narrative. That is the job of the media.

PitPat · 25th July 2022, 02:30 PM

Nah, while on the whole, most cops are very likely good and honest and I think most reasonable people get that. But there are pockets of regions where misconduct and rights violations occur regularly. And it is absolutely the job of the "attention-hungry" media to report on them where they occur.

What's laughable is that there's an overreaction by media activists (meaning media you don't agree with). It's been going on a long time - what has changed is cameras with footage that are publicly available. Now they're getting called out. Absolutely nothing wrong with media reporting that when it's that egregious.

pgwenthold · 25th July 2022, 02:43 PM

There are videos of Hitler playing joyfully with his dogs. Apparently he was quite a dog lover.

Does that mean anything? Not at all. He was still evil.

This anecdote means nothing.

#Godwinned

Steve · 25th July 2022, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

I do imagine it will cause some cognitive dissonance, until the posters realize this took place in Canada and the person with a medical emergency appears to have been a white woman and not a black man.

The woman involved is officially identified as indigenous, if that matters to you.

Gord_in_Toronto · 25th July 2022, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

There are videos of Hitler playing joyfully with his dogs. Apparently he was quite a dog lover.

Does that mean anything? Not at all. He was still evil.

This anecdote means nothing.

#Godwinned

There are movies of dogs playing joyfully with Hitler. Apparently dogs have no sense of evil.

Does that mean anything? Why, yes it does. Dogs are pretty dopey.

This anecdote means everything.

jimbob · 25th July 2022, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

The above is laughable. "What is reported in the attention-hungry media is how we should judge the Police". The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of Police encounters to not involve "dishonest racist thug" activity. Just like the story reported in the OP. The fact that some people think otherwise is directly due to the biased and sensational nature of media reporting.

Sounds like we don't have much to worry about, though...at least in the US. If you consider that the Police make 10 million arrests per year, and have 50-60 million civilian encounters. We're going to need a lot more "bad reports" for these claims of widespread egregious misconduct to be of any overwhelming concern.

After all, we wouldn't want to be alarmists promoting a false narrative. That is the job of the media.

What has the highlighted to do with anything?

The role of the police should be to protect justice, in many cases, in both the US and the UK, the police forces have been systemically promoting injustice. What is an acceptable level of racist cops in a police force? If you were in a targeted minority, how many times would it be appropriate for you to be stopped without any cause other than your ethnicity?

What evidence do you have to suggest that Ferguson PD was an outlier?

dudalb · 25th July 2022, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

There are videos of Hitler playing joyfully with his dogs. Apparently he was quite a dog lover.

Does that mean anything? Not at all. He was still evil.

This anecdote means nothing.

#Godwinned

There are also some charming paintings of Stalin playing with Children.
Standard Propganda Ploy.

Venom · 25th July 2022, 03:33 PM

An officer let me off a few months ago after a friendly warning about my expired plates.
Don't know if that counts as an act of leniency that doesn't make the news, but lesser offenses have prompted police stops that escalate to violence.

Thermal · 25th July 2022, 03:53 PM

Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times.

Vixen · 25th July 2022, 03:56 PM

Glad your daughter is all right. If that happened in Finland, the driver would probably be barred from driving until declared medically fit to continue. My stepfather thought Finnish police were absolutely wonderful. In icy weather, his four-wheel drive ended up in a ditch - a common cause of accident here - when he took a sharp corner. A neighbour passing by, soon got help for him, as he was somewhat trapped. He said the police were so incredibly nice, taking him to the hospital for a check up, and all. So he was really shocked to later receive a fine and a ban for driving (mainly because of his advanced age and bad health, which they perceived to have been a factor).

Brainster · 25th July 2022, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

The woman involved is officially identified as indigenous, if that matters to you.

That's really going to confuse them.

theprestige · 25th July 2022, 04:13 PM

The main thing I like about all the ACAB narratives is that nobody talks about the efforts they've been making in their own communities to ensure security while avoiding unnecessary persecution. How's crime in your neighborhood? Is it high? So what's your solution, if not more cops? More social workers? So why aren't you out there doing the social work?

Steve · 25th July 2022, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times.

Frankly anyone who helped my daughter in such a manner would be worthy of accolades. This officer had the advantage of:
- having the authority to stop her when he noticed erratic driving.
- having experience, and perhaps some training, to recognize medical distress and know it was more serious than mere nervousness at being stopped.
- being able to quickly identify and contact me.
- likely (I am guessing here) call on some sort sort of priority to get a quick paramedic response.
- being able to keep an eye on her car until we were able to pick it up so it did not appear abandoned.

Not hard to envision a less caring patrolman to just write up a ticket, give it to her, and tell her not to be so nervous.

For most people I have no doubt this is not a big deal. for me - my daughter is healthy and back at work today after spending 6 hours in the hospital yesterday. To me this justifies all the accolades I can pile on this guy.

Warp12 · 25th July 2022, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times.

Yeah, a sign of the times alright.

It's pretty ridiculous that with the number of police encounters, and the tiny fractional number of bad actions being sensationalized, that some people think bad cops are the norm. Some people are actually so stupid as to think that the media narrative about cops is correct, so you have to beat them over them head with it when a cop buys a kid an ice cream cone.

Well, what point is there in being a SJW without a cause, I suppose?

Steve · 25th July 2022, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

That's really going to confuse them.

How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it.

Venom · 25th July 2022, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Yeah, a sign of the times alright.

It's pretty ridiculous that with the number of police encounters, and the tiny fractional number of bad actions being sensationalized, that some people think bad cops are the norm. Some people are actually so stupid as to think that the media narrative about cops is correct, so you have to beat them over them head with it when a cop buys a kid an ice cream cone.

Well, what point is there in being a SJW without a cause, I suppose?

The problem is cops are able to get away with a lot just because they are cops, and they more often than not have each other's backs, even when they do something horrible. One police chief told his officers if they are okay with what happened to George Floyd, resign now. I thought no police or reactionaries could possibly defend this right? Oh but because of BLM and the security footage, it became okay to defend the perpetrator somehow. It became a tit for tat thing, tacitly defending the killing just because some rioters who hijacked the peaceful protests made the Fox News top story for weeks straight.

PitPat · 25th July 2022, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The main thing I like about all the ACAB narratives is that nobody talks about the efforts they've been making in their own communities to ensure security while avoiding unnecessary persecution. How's crime in your neighborhood? Is it high? So what's your solution, if not more cops? More social workers? So why aren't you out there doing the social work?

That's an important question. Crime in my neighborhood has gotten a lot worse over the last 6-7 years. Like many urban areas, city cops have fled to the suburbs, and there's a vacuum left.

Sure, recruiting programs may eventually help, remains to be seen. Things where you'd usually expect a visit for, let's say a stolen license plate on your car parked in a secure location, is addressed by a text saying it's been documented.

I don't think it will change soon - feels more like a bitter rivalry between LE agencies/unions and politicians (and some elected prosecutors). No-cash bail/recognizance and such. With only so much money to go around - and then you get into "raising taxes" for goals that should "already be included with with the taxes we currently pay".

Both sides have issues - police being over protective of their own (law) and some prosecutors deciding to loosen the rules (order). Some may be surprised that Seattle elected a Republican city attorney last cycle who campaigned about tightening those up. Though we've had moderate Republican officeholders before at the city and county level, but it's been awhile.

smartcooky · 25th July 2022, 05:42 PM

My only comment for this thread

"Steve, is your daughter OK now?"

Brainster · 25th July 2022, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it.

Because a lot of the people here assume that if a cop encounters a BIPOC (especially one behaving erratically as your daughter was), the latter usually ends up getting shot. It's an article of faith with them.

Gord_in_Toronto · 25th July 2022, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it.

Cue Rick Mercer and Talking to Americans^WP.

Bob001 · 25th July 2022, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

.....
I have reported and commended his actions to his superiors.

But it's Canada. Isn't everybody nice? And the RCMP is a national force. The U.S. has nothing like that.

arthwollipot · 25th July 2022, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times.

I think that in an environment where we are bombarded with information about police misconduct, there's value in occasionally making note of when they do good.

novaphile · 25th July 2022, 08:33 PM

I'm glad your daughter is OK.

However, that "get-home-itis" has nearly cost me my life, twice.

I strongly recommend that your daughter gets her asthma plan updated, and also gets onto much better medication.

It is not OK to be driving anywhere during an asthma attack, and doing things like that can lead to much worse outcomes.

Thermal · 25th July 2022, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

Frankly anyone who helped my daughter in such a manner would be worthy of accolades. This officer had the advantage of:
- having the authority to stop her when he noticed erratic driving.
- having experience, and perhaps some training, to recognize medical distress and know it was more serious than mere nervousness at being stopped.
- being able to quickly identify and contact me.
- likely (I am guessing here) call on some sort sort of priority to get a quick paramedic response.
- being able to keep an eye on her car until we were able to pick it up so it did not appear abandoned.

Not hard to envision a less caring patrolman to just write up a ticket, give it to her, and tell her not to be so nervous.

For most people I have no doubt this is not a big deal. for me - my daughter is healthy and back at work today after spending 6 hours in the hospital yesterday. To me this justifies all the accolades I can pile on this guy.

And that's great. Glad to hear your daughter is well.

But the way you framed this story...as "Good Cop"...is kind of troubling. Serious question: would you really expect anything less than what he did? Would you have done the same in a similar situation? I bet you would have. We have the bar so low for police behavior that being a passable human being, or not a freaking ghoul, makes him "Good".

You didn't mention goodness of the paramedics, or doctors and nurses of the hospital. Were they not good? You took the time to commend the paramedics and attending physicians and other caregivers, yes? Or is it just the cop that is worthy?

Not busting your chops man, but if we lower the bar of expectations for police any more were going to trip.over it.

Susheel · 25th July 2022, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it.

It confuses him...

Susheel · 25th July 2022, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Because a lot of the people here assume that if a cop encounters a BIPOC (especially one behaving erratically as your daughter was), the latter usually ends up getting shot. It's an article of faith with them.

Well, recent incidents seem to indicate it does happen.

Brainster · 25th July 2022, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Susheel

Well, recent incidents seem to indicate it does happen.

Selection bias.

sarge · 25th July 2022, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Selection bias.

You picked the wrong kind of bias.

Suddenly · 26th July 2022, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The main thing I like about all the ACAB narratives is that nobody talks about the efforts they've been making in their own communities to ensure security while avoiding unnecessary persecution. How's crime in your neighborhood? Is it high? So what's your solution, if not more cops? More social workers? So why aren't you out there doing the social work?

When the cops are part of and answer to the communities in which they work all of this sort of takes care of itself. Which isn't all that common for the most vulnerable people in a polity of any size.

It's all pretty clueless. "So, you say the cops who don't live here and couldn't care less about your quality of life are running wild and causing more problems than they solve? Why aren't you out there solving those problems and doing their jobs for them?

PitPat · 26th July 2022, 10:16 AM

One thing I'm concerned about and don't have anything that indicates it, is a lowering of standards for acceptance just to get the numbers up. That would just make it worse.

ponderingturtle · 26th July 2022, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by PitPat

One thing I'm concerned about and don't have anything that indicates it, is a lowering of standards for acceptance just to get the numbers up. That would just make it worse.

But they already avoid high standards, so one way would be to let the high scoring applicants in. They already keep those with high IQ's out.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-...story?id=95836

Brainster · 26th July 2022, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

But they already avoid high standards, so one way would be to let the high scoring applicants in. They already keep those with high IQ's out.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-...story?id=95836

For the same reason I declined to interview a UC Berkeley graduate for a secretarial position; I knew the job couldn't possibly be a fit for her.

PitPat · 26th July 2022, 11:09 AM

Excellent foresight. UC Berkeley graduates aren't a monolith - I know two who have been happy at their jobs that aren't that demanding for their degrees. But they're good at it and enjoying life. But yeah, could be just too smart.

25th July 2022, 10:37 AM	#1
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 11,432	Good Cop Many threads and comments here criticizing police actions. Most are justified, and I have been a somewhat enthusiastic participant. Had a positive police encounter yesterday - Canadian RCMP - that warrants a mention. Our daughter was sent home early from work yesterday following a serious asthma attack. An RCMP traffic patrol officer noticed her driving fast and erratically on the highway and pulled her over. As soon as he went to speak with her he noticed a medical emergency was occurring - another asthma attack causing confusion and disorientation due to lack of oxygen. He immediately called paramedics and used his personal experience with asthma with his own daughter to help her through the immediate emergency while waiting for paramedics. He assisted her to get out of the car and onto the stretcher because she was feeling very weak. Once she was safely in the hands of paramedics he called me with details and advised where they were located so that I could attend the scene before the paramedics left. Once she was all sorted out and on her way to hospital he offered to stay with her car at the side of the highway while I fetched her boyfriend to drive it home. He was very pleasant and informative during the entire process. His actions could well have prevented a serious devastating accident. This officer displayed the epitome of professionalism that should be inherent in, and expected of, all police. I have reported and commended his actions to his superiors.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

25th July 2022, 12:09 PM	#2
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,731	I'm interested in what other responses you'll get in this thread. But isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

25th July 2022, 12:17 PM	#3
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 11,432	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto I'm interested in what other responses you'll get in this thread. But isn't that the way it's supposed to work? I think so. And perhaps this type of thing happens frequently but never gets reported because it is not "news". I think positive reports are probably as important as the negative.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

25th July 2022, 12:29 PM	#4
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,889	Originally Posted by Steve I think positive reports are probably as important as the negative. I disagree. It is not important that citizens trust the police if the police are actually untrustworthy. If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust.
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25th July 2022, 12:48 PM	#5
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 11,432	Originally Posted by sarge I disagree. It is not important that citizens trust the police if the police are actually untrustworthy. If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust. I said nothing about trust. I am still rather negative about the RCMP in its entirety. Especially upper management. The are a couple of high profile cases currently being vetted here in Canada that indicate a lack of trustworthiness and reliability in the force as a whole. I provide the anecdote on its own merits, nothing more. I do think positive reports have value.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

25th July 2022, 01:05 PM	#6
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,079	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto I'm interested in what other responses you'll get in this thread. But isn't that the way it's supposed to work? I do imagine it will cause some cognitive dissonance, until the posters realize this took place in Canada and the person with a medical emergency appears to have been a white woman and not a black man.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

25th July 2022, 01:14 PM	#7
PitPat Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 3,200	Originally Posted by sarge I disagree. It is not important that citizens trust the police if the police are actually untrustworthy. If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust. I generally agree with the disagreement. News is usually for things going wrong, not what's working like it should. Not saying there shouldn't be a few minutes allotted for a feel-good story, fine. And this one is, and I'm happy that it turned out well for your daughter. Also might be a cultural difference between how LEOs are trained - erratic young/white female (? could be wrong) driver could be treated differently than others. And confirmed that vehicle is reported not stolen and received word that registered owner has no active warrants. That is, if Canada has adopted radio technology.

25th July 2022, 02:07 PM	#8
Warp12 King of Kings Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 5,954	Originally Posted by sarge If the number of reports that accurately present the police as armed thugs approaches 5% of the number of accurate reports that present police as being trustworthy, honest, non-racist thugs, then it is important that the public not trust the police until the police re-earn that trust. The above is laughable. "What is reported in the attention-hungry media is how we should judge the Police". The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of Police encounters to not involve "dishonest racist thug" activity. Just like the story reported in the OP. The fact that some people think otherwise is directly due to the biased and sensational nature of media reporting. Sounds like we don't have much to worry about, though...at least in the US. If you consider that the Police make 10 million arrests per year, and have 50-60 million civilian encounters. We're going to need a lot more "bad reports" for these claims of widespread egregious misconduct to be of any overwhelming concern. After all, we wouldn't want to be alarmists promoting a false narrative. That is the job of the media.
	__________________ Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more. Last edited by Warp12; 25th July 2022 at 02:58 PM.

25th July 2022, 02:30 PM	#9
PitPat Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 3,200	Nah, while on the whole, most cops are very likely good and honest and I think most reasonable people get that. But there are pockets of regions where misconduct and rights violations occur regularly. And it is absolutely the job of the "attention-hungry" media to report on them where they occur. What's laughable is that there's an overreaction by media activists (meaning media you don't agree with). It's been going on a long time - what has changed is cameras with footage that are publicly available. Now they're getting called out. Absolutely nothing wrong with media reporting that when it's that egregious.

25th July 2022, 02:43 PM	#10
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 20,765	There are videos of Hitler playing joyfully with his dogs. Apparently he was quite a dog lover. Does that mean anything? Not at all. He was still evil. This anecdote means nothing. #Godwinned
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

25th July 2022, 02:49 PM	#11
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 11,432	Originally Posted by Brainster I do imagine it will cause some cognitive dissonance, until the posters realize this took place in Canada and the person with a medical emergency appears to have been a white woman and not a black man. The woman involved is officially identified as indigenous, if that matters to you.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

25th July 2022, 03:01 PM	#12
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,731	Originally Posted by pgwenthold There are videos of Hitler playing joyfully with his dogs. Apparently he was quite a dog lover. Does that mean anything? Not at all. He was still evil. This anecdote means nothing. #Godwinned There are movies of dogs playing joyfully with Hitler. Apparently dogs have no sense of evil. Does that mean anything? Why, yes it does. Dogs are pretty dopey. This anecdote means everything.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

25th July 2022, 03:26 PM	#13
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 26,788	Originally Posted by Warp12 The above is laughable. "What is reported in the attention-hungry media is how we should judge the Police". The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of Police encounters to not involve "dishonest racist thug" activity. Just like the story reported in the OP. The fact that some people think otherwise is directly due to the biased and sensational nature of media reporting. Sounds like we don't have much to worry about, though...at least in the US. If you consider that the Police make 10 million arrests per year, and have 50-60 million civilian encounters. We're going to need a lot more "bad reports" for these claims of widespread egregious misconduct to be of any overwhelming concern. After all, we wouldn't want to be alarmists promoting a false narrative. That is the job of the media. What has the highlighted to do with anything? The role of the police should be to protect justice, in many cases, in both the US and the UK, the police forces have been systemically promoting injustice. What is an acceptable level of racist cops in a police force? If you were in a targeted minority, how many times would it be appropriate for you to be stopped without any cause other than your ethnicity? What evidence do you have to suggest that Ferguson PD was an outlier?
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

25th July 2022, 03:28 PM	#14
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 56,022	Originally Posted by pgwenthold There are videos of Hitler playing joyfully with his dogs. Apparently he was quite a dog lover. Does that mean anything? Not at all. He was still evil. This anecdote means nothing. #Godwinned There are also some charming paintings of Stalin playing with Children. Standard Propganda Ploy.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

25th July 2022, 03:33 PM	#15
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 5,920	An officer let me off a few months ago after a friendly warning about my expired plates. Don't know if that counts as an act of leniency that doesn't make the news, but lesser offenses have prompted police stops that escalate to violence.

25th July 2022, 03:53 PM	#16
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA (in the Troll Ignoring Section) Posts: 19,569	Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

25th July 2022, 03:56 PM	#17
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 29,422	Glad your daughter is all right. If that happened in Finland, the driver would probably be barred from driving until declared medically fit to continue. My stepfather thought Finnish police were absolutely wonderful. In icy weather, his four-wheel drive ended up in a ditch - a common cause of accident here - when he took a sharp corner. A neighbour passing by, soon got help for him, as he was somewhat trapped. He said the police were so incredibly nice, taking him to the hospital for a check up, and all. So he was really shocked to later receive a fine and a ban for driving (mainly because of his advanced age and bad health, which they perceived to have been a factor).
	__________________ The parting on the Left Is now parting on the Right ~ Pete Townshend

25th July 2022, 04:07 PM	#18
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,079	Originally Posted by Steve The woman involved is officially identified as indigenous, if that matters to you. That's really going to confuse them.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

25th July 2022, 04:13 PM	#19
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 60,329	The main thing I like about all the ACAB narratives is that nobody talks about the efforts they've been making in their own communities to ensure security while avoiding unnecessary persecution. How's crime in your neighborhood? Is it high? So what's your solution, if not more cops? More social workers? So why aren't you out there doing the social work?
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

25th July 2022, 04:15 PM	#20
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 11,432	Originally Posted by Thermal Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times. Frankly anyone who helped my daughter in such a manner would be worthy of accolades. This officer had the advantage of: - having the authority to stop her when he noticed erratic driving. - having experience, and perhaps some training, to recognize medical distress and know it was more serious than mere nervousness at being stopped. - being able to quickly identify and contact me. - likely (I am guessing here) call on some sort sort of priority to get a quick paramedic response. - being able to keep an eye on her car until we were able to pick it up so it did not appear abandoned. Not hard to envision a less caring patrolman to just write up a ticket, give it to her, and tell her not to be so nervous. For most people I have no doubt this is not a big deal. for me - my daughter is healthy and back at work today after spending 6 hours in the hospital yesterday. To me this justifies all the accolades I can pile on this guy.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

25th July 2022, 04:17 PM	#21
Warp12 King of Kings Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 5,954	Originally Posted by Thermal Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times. Yeah, a sign of the times alright. It's pretty ridiculous that with the number of police encounters, and the tiny fractional number of bad actions being sensationalized, that some people think bad cops are the norm. Some people are actually so stupid as to think that the media narrative about cops is correct, so you have to beat them over them head with it when a cop buys a kid an ice cream cone. Well, what point is there in being a SJW without a cause, I suppose?
	__________________ Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more. Last edited by Warp12; 25th July 2022 at 04:18 PM.

25th July 2022, 04:18 PM	#22
Steve Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney Nova Scotia Posts: 11,432	Originally Posted by Brainster That's really going to confuse them. How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it.
	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

25th July 2022, 04:36 PM	#23
Venom Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 5,920	Originally Posted by Warp12 Yeah, a sign of the times alright. It's pretty ridiculous that with the number of police encounters, and the tiny fractional number of bad actions being sensationalized, that some people think bad cops are the norm. Some people are actually so stupid as to think that the media narrative about cops is correct, so you have to beat them over them head with it when a cop buys a kid an ice cream cone. Well, what point is there in being a SJW without a cause, I suppose? The problem is cops are able to get away with a lot just because they are cops, and they more often than not have each other's backs, even when they do something horrible. One police chief told his officers if they are okay with what happened to George Floyd, resign now. I thought no police or reactionaries could possibly defend this right? Oh but because of BLM and the security footage, it became okay to defend the perpetrator somehow. It became a tit for tat thing, tacitly defending the killing just because some rioters who hijacked the peaceful protests made the Fox News top story for weeks straight.

25th July 2022, 05:02 PM	#24
PitPat Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 3,200	Originally Posted by theprestige The main thing I like about all the ACAB narratives is that nobody talks about the efforts they've been making in their own communities to ensure security while avoiding unnecessary persecution. How's crime in your neighborhood? Is it high? So what's your solution, if not more cops? More social workers? So why aren't you out there doing the social work? That's an important question. Crime in my neighborhood has gotten a lot worse over the last 6-7 years. Like many urban areas, city cops have fled to the suburbs, and there's a vacuum left. Sure, recruiting programs may eventually help, remains to be seen. Things where you'd usually expect a visit for, let's say a stolen license plate on your car parked in a secure location, is addressed by a text saying it's been documented. I don't think it will change soon - feels more like a bitter rivalry between LE agencies/unions and politicians (and some elected prosecutors). No-cash bail/recognizance and such. With only so much money to go around - and then you get into "raising taxes" for goals that should "already be included with with the taxes we currently pay". Both sides have issues - police being over protective of their own (law) and some prosecutors deciding to loosen the rules (order). Some may be surprised that Seattle elected a Republican city attorney last cycle who campaigned about tightening those up. Though we've had moderate Republican officeholders before at the city and county level, but it's been awhile.
	Last edited by PitPat; 25th July 2022 at 05:05 PM.

25th July 2022, 05:42 PM	#25
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 21,871	My only comment for this thread "Steve, is your daughter OK now?"
	__________________ Science supplies evidence, invites you to analyse and evaluate that evidence, and then to draw conclusions from that Religion supplies no evidence, demands you have faith, and expects you to uncritically and automatically believe that something is true simply because "the Bible tells you so" If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list!

25th July 2022, 05:45 PM	#26
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,079	Originally Posted by Steve How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it. Because a lot of the people here assume that if a cop encounters a BIPOC (especially one behaving erratically as your daughter was), the latter usually ends up getting shot. It's an article of faith with them.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

25th July 2022, 06:20 PM	#27
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,731	Originally Posted by Steve How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it. Cue Rick Mercer and Talking to Americans^WP.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

25th July 2022, 08:13 PM	#28
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,638	Originally Posted by Steve ..... I have reported and commended his actions to his superiors. But it's Canada. Isn't everybody nice? And the RCMP is a national force. The U.S. has nothing like that.

25th July 2022, 08:20 PM	#29
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 77,485	Originally Posted by Thermal Cop shows basic humanity, not going a step out of his way and getting paid all the while, and this gets treated like something worthy of particular accolades. Sign of the times. I think that in an environment where we are bombarded with information about police misconduct, there's value in occasionally making note of when they do good.
	__________________ This is Australia. It's possible to start a fire with a lukewarm audience reaction to your standup routine.

25th July 2022, 08:33 PM	#30
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 3,422	I'm glad your daughter is OK. However, that "get-home-itis" has nearly cost me my life, twice. I strongly recommend that your daughter gets her asthma plan updated, and also gets onto much better medication. It is not OK to be driving anywhere during an asthma attack, and doing things like that can lead to much worse outcomes.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

25th July 2022, 08:55 PM	#31
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA (in the Troll Ignoring Section) Posts: 19,569	Originally Posted by Steve Frankly anyone who helped my daughter in such a manner would be worthy of accolades. This officer had the advantage of: - having the authority to stop her when he noticed erratic driving. - having experience, and perhaps some training, to recognize medical distress and know it was more serious than mere nervousness at being stopped. - being able to quickly identify and contact me. - likely (I am guessing here) call on some sort sort of priority to get a quick paramedic response. - being able to keep an eye on her car until we were able to pick it up so it did not appear abandoned. Not hard to envision a less caring patrolman to just write up a ticket, give it to her, and tell her not to be so nervous. For most people I have no doubt this is not a big deal. for me - my daughter is healthy and back at work today after spending 6 hours in the hospital yesterday. To me this justifies all the accolades I can pile on this guy. And that's great. Glad to hear your daughter is well. But the way you framed this story...as "Good Cop"...is kind of troubling. Serious question: would you really expect anything less than what he did? Would you have done the same in a similar situation? I bet you would have. We have the bar so low for police behavior that being a passable human being, or not a freaking ghoul, makes him "Good". You didn't mention goodness of the paramedics, or doctors and nurses of the hospital. Were they not good? You took the time to commend the paramedics and attending physicians and other caregivers, yes? Or is it just the cop that is worthy? Not busting your chops man, but if we lower the bar of expectations for police any more were going to trip.over it.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

25th July 2022, 10:24 PM	#32
Susheel Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 2,765	Originally Posted by Steve How? and why? There is a very prominent and prosperous indigenous community in this area. There is nothing confusing about it. It confuses him...
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

25th July 2022, 10:26 PM	#33
Susheel Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 2,765	Originally Posted by Brainster Because a lot of the people here assume that if a cop encounters a BIPOC (especially one behaving erratically as your daughter was), the latter usually ends up getting shot. It's an article of faith with them. Well, recent incidents seem to indicate it does happen.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

25th July 2022, 10:46 PM	#34
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,079	Originally Posted by Susheel Well, recent incidents seem to indicate it does happen. Selection bias.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

25th July 2022, 11:23 PM	#35
sarge Philosopher Moderator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 8,889	Originally Posted by Brainster Selection bias. You picked the wrong kind of bias.
	__________________ My previous signature risked (unknowingly) violating the Hatch Act!