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Old 20th June 2022, 08:01 PM   #521
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
I have read it in news reports but not presented as a proven. I’ve not chased it further as it doesn’t in any way alter the nature of the events. Fake OD or no, in a bar or no, lied about her age or no, had a fake birth certificate, looked 25, none of it is relevant to the question of whether or not it was rape. It’s not relevant to whether or not the police failed to investigate. It isn’t relevant (to me) to the question of how the father, once it should have been clear that he raped her, ever got custody of any percentage.
If you are unable to confirm where the listing of the boyfriend as the father was made, than your repeated statements about the mother listing the boyfriend are lies.
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Old 20th June 2022, 08:45 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
None of those are sarge assuming she told child services her boyfriend was the father.

It has been reported that she listed the boyfriend as the father, at the time of birth. That is the fact that sarge is arguing from.
True, but entirely irrelevant since "assuming" was never mentioned.

The term was "taking a default" position, which is NOT the same thing.

Default Position
A belief (or lack of belief) that is preferable prior to debate or before any evidence is considered. Many people claim that some belief (or lack thereof) are default positions, so everyone who disagrees with those positions has the burden of proof.
https://ethicalrealism.wordpress.com...sitions-exist/

Assume
(Verb) to accept something to be true without question or proof:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/assume
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Old 20th June 2022, 08:51 PM   #523
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Last edited by Thermal; 20th June 2022 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:17 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...
I couldn't agree more.
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Old 21st June 2022, 03:43 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If you are unable to confirm where the listing of the boyfriend as the father was made, than your repeated statements about the mother listing the boyfriend are lies.
Your statement, while factually inaccurate, also isn’t remotely relevant to the post you quoted.
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Old 21st June 2022, 03:47 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
Your statement, while factually inaccurate, also isn’t remotely relevant to the post you quoted.
You must simply be joking. Did you not say this:

Quote:
My claim is that at the time of birth there was no indication of rape because the mother had listed as the father her teenage boyfriend and had not at that time named the true father.
The simple question you have not answered is where was the boyfriend listed? Why are you lying?
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Old 21st June 2022, 07:10 AM   #527
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I can't imagine why a woman in America might not gush over her being raped.

It's not like men are given every benefit of the doubt in legal proceedings, if not tacit support in using the processes of justice to inflict even more abuse.

Oh, wait...
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Old 21st June 2022, 08:04 AM   #528
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In all honesty, who really gives a **** what was reported to CPS at the time of birth?

If we're looking at assigning blame to the people that failed the mother and child, there are already people that have admitted fault. The sheriff for one. I have no doubts that because of the national attention this bull **** has received that events are going to take place, quickly. She has more help now, the facts are coming to light, and I think the guy really did himself in by trying to take too much.

All of the "she had an ID, she looked old enough, she blah blah blah", again, means less than the fact she is saying she didn't consent. He also said he would take her home, he didn't. He took her to his house. He is currently, at the very least, physically and emotionally abusing the daughter in question, with the implication (and some lost evidence) that he's also raping her.

Not to be a ******* dick about it all, but what she said to CPS means very little in comparison. The man is a complete and total piece of ****, if what we are told is to be believed. Which I do.
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Old 21st June 2022, 08:11 AM   #529
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
In all honesty, who really gives a **** what was reported to CPS at the time of birth?

If we're looking at assigning blame to the people that failed the mother and child, there are already people that have admitted fault. The sheriff for one. I have no doubts that because of the national attention this bull **** has received that events are going to take place, quickly. She has more help now, the facts are coming to light, and I think the guy really did himself in by trying to take too much.

All of the "she had an ID, she looked old enough, she blah blah blah", again, means less than the fact she is saying she didn't consent. He also said he would take her home, he didn't. He took her to his house. He is currently, at the very least, physically and emotionally abusing the daughter in question, with the implication (and some lost evidence) that he's also raping her.

Not to be a ******* dick about it all, but what she said to CPS means very little in comparison. The man is a complete and total piece of ****, if what we are told is to be believed. Which I do.
She was under age and he committed rape. EVERYTHiNG else is much less relevant than this basic fact. Once this was known to be the case, I still can’t understand how he got any visitation at all.
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Old 21st June 2022, 08:15 AM   #530
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I'm not sure LA really plays the law too tough on this stuff.

Until recently they didn't even have a minimum age for marriage (from 2019):

Quote:
Louisiana does not currently have a minimum age for marriage. Instead, a judge must sign off on weddings involving a child under 16, and both parents must approve a marriage involving a 16 or 17 year old. That system can allow an adult to impregnate a child and then marry her to avoid suspicion or criminal penalties.

So it's not hard to imagine this teen pregnancy not getting a lot of attention in a small town, imo. I bet these young girls are getting knocked up quite frequently, and without rape charges being brought.

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Old 21st June 2022, 08:22 AM   #531
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
She was under age and he committed rape. EVERYTHiNG else is much less relevant than this basic fact. Once this was known to be the case, I still can’t understand how he got any visitation at all.
^^^This is the part I can't get past.

Even giving Barnes 100% benefit of the doubt (that he thought Abelseth was over 21 in 2005 and he thought it was consensual), at some point after the paternity test, he 100% knew she was underage and he raped her. Yet he proceeded with custody motions. That shows he must have known he was pulling the strings, or he would be going down on the felony rape charge in short order.

Not only was he controlling this, but he fully knew it. How?
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Old 21st June 2022, 08:30 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
^^^This is the part I can't get past.

Even giving Barnes 100% benefit of the doubt (that he thought Abelseth was over 21 in 2005 and he thought it was consensual), at some point after the paternity test, he 100% knew she was underage and he raped her. Yet he proceeded with custody motions. That shows he must have known he was pulling the strings, or he would be going down on the felony rape charge in short order.

Not only was he controlling this, but he fully knew it. How?
Or (and I am not saying this would be okay), even after learning she was the mother, he was not aware he had committed rape. Make an assumption that he did not consider the encounter to have been coerced and assume he wasn’t generally aware of LAs statutory rape law particulars. Is it possible (no matter how far fetched) that this whole thing is a combination of his stupidity and (until recently) gross incompetence on behalf of all the agencies that should have been involved?

It would take an impressive alignment of stupidity and incompetence of course, and I believe active, malicious inaction by the police is still the more likely explanation for how he escaped rape charges from the moment he identified himself as being indisputably a racist.
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Old 21st June 2022, 08:32 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
It would take an impressive alignment of stupidity and incompetence of course, and I believe active, malicious inaction by the police is still the more likely explanation for how he escaped rape charges from the moment he identified himself as being indisputably a racist.

Hmm. Hard to keep track of all the labels being tossed around, I guess.

I just can't see Barnes as some puppet master, over so many agencies. Police, courts, hospital reporting, the whole shebang.

Last edited by Warp12; 21st June 2022 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 21st June 2022, 08:57 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hmm. Hard to keep track of all the labels being tossed around, I guess.

I just can't see Barnes as some puppet master, over so many agencies. Police, courts, hospital reporting, the whole shebang.
Its hard to picture, but how else can it have happened? It went on record that the child is a product of rape. Barnes is the proven father. What other interpratation comes up other than Barnes feloniously raped her, and is now awarded custody rights and payments from his victim?

Eta: autocorrect changed "feloniously" to "deliciously" above. Autocorrect seems to be a bit sociopathic lately.
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Old 21st June 2022, 09:04 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hmm. Hard to keep track of all the labels being tossed around, I guess.

I just can't see Barnes as some puppet master, over so many agencies. Police, courts, hospital reporting, the whole shebang.
He doesn't have to be some power playing, puppet master in a relatively small town where he's done work for the authorities.

When I did IT for some counties here, the only people I consulted with and got my task lists from where those that ran the station. If he worked hand-in-hand with the higher ups of the police station to build the website then relationships might have been formed. If the cops, like some here, don't agree with the AOC, are friends with Barnes, then they might have just shrugged their shoulders.

The problem I have, more than this, is that it's not just her case that they've ****** up on. There is still a rape kit out there somewhere that could show the father is raping his daughter. That takes more effort than to put a file on a shelf and forget about it. It's a bit active on the "cover-up" scale.

While I feel sorry for the mother, I feel more sorry for the daughter.
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Old 21st June 2022, 09:11 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
While I feel sorry for the mother, I feel more sorry for the daughter.
Unless they are lying. These are hardly independent accusations.
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Old 21st June 2022, 09:34 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Unless they are lying. These are hardly independent accusations.
Pretty thorough lying job, if so. They fooled the hospital into saying the daughter was in a condition consistent with forced entry. Sounds like physical damage to me.

The hospitals evaluation was one of the things that tipped me over to Team No This Isn't A Con Job.
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Old 21st June 2022, 09:46 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Pretty thorough lying job, if so. They fooled the hospital into saying the daughter was in a condition consistent with forced entry. Sounds like physical damage to me.
Maybe. The hospital found evidence of something. We don't know what. It was rejected by the authorities, we don't know why. Maybe it was compelling evidence, and maybe it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The hospitals evaluation was one of the things that tipped me over to Team No This Isn't A Con Job.
I'm on team "this is a messy situation and I'm content to wait for things to become clear". I don't trust any of the people involved to summarise the case or the evidence.
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Old 21st June 2022, 09:57 AM   #539
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Maybe. The hospital found evidence of something. We don't know what. It was rejected by the authorities, we don't know why. Maybe it was compelling evidence, and maybe it wasn't.
I'm not sure that the evidence "not being compelling" to the same agencies that lost a rape kit, shelved the original rape complaint for years, ignored proof of the original statutory rape, and awarded custody to the rapist, are really our best sources of what constitutes compelling evidence.

Quote:
I'm on team "this is a messy situation and I'm content to wait for things to become clear". I don't trust any of the people involved to summarise the case or the evidence.
Agreed, at least in part. Some big pieces of missing information will likely make at least some of this more understandable.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:00 AM   #540
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I'm not convinced the hospital found anything. Who reported that? The same woman with conflicting details of her incident, and who suddenly now thinks she may have been drugged by Barnes, too?

Seriously.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:04 AM   #541
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I'm not convinced the hospital found anything. Who reported that? The same woman with conflicting details of her incident, and who suddenly now thinks she may have been drugged by Barnes, too?

Seriously.
Is Team "Whoopsies, lost the rape kit, Whoopsies, forgot to investigate a rape for years, Whoopsies, let a proven rapist get custody of the product of the rape" really a more credible source?
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:09 AM   #542
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Is Team "Whoopsies, lost the rape kit, Whoopsies, forgot to investigate a rape for years, Whoopsies, let a proven rapist get custody of the product of the rape" really a more credible source?
Everything we know about that Team is being brought to us by Team "you have to trust us because the narrative we've provided you clearly paints us as the good guys".
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:10 AM   #543
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I can't imagine why a woman in America might not gush over her being raped.

It's not like men are given every benefit of the doubt in legal proceedings, if not tacit support in using the processes of justice to inflict even more abuse.

Oh, wait...
Nobody is blaming her for not coming forward promptly with allegations of rape.

Some, however, are blaming everyone else for not somehow figuring out it was rape and going full HAM on the rapist.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:11 AM   #544
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Not sure if this has been posted yet:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/louisiana...child-says-lie

Quote:
"It's a lie. She was in a bar with a fake ID, telling everyone she was a college student," said Barnes, who owns tech company Gumbeaux Digital Branding. "I had no idea she was 16, and I didn’t rape her. That is absolutely, unequivocally false."
Maybe he would say that?

Quote:
The petition for paternity was initiated by Abelseth in 2011, the judge wrote in a filing. A suit was filed demanding DNA samples from Barnes and James Threeton, who was incarcerated at the time.

Threeton had signed the child’s birth certificate, and the young girl initially had his last name and called him "daddy," according to the records.

After the test revealed that Barnes was the father, both parents voluntarily agreed to joint custody in October 2011, without intervention from the court, and that neither would pay child support, the filings show.
So, we have our answers to some questions. The boyfriend was indeed on the birth certificate. The paternity tests were initiated by the mother. The original custody agreement was voluntary and didn't involve the court. Maybe that explains a little of how he ended up with custody.

Quote:
"Ms. Byrd-Abelseth requested Mr. Barnes be named as the father of the minor child and consistently consented to shared custody since the onset of the case," wrote Cache in a court document.

But Barnes grew frustrated that Abelseth continued to encourage a relationship between ex-con Threeton and the child, taking the girl to see him in prison, he told Fox News Digital.

"She was undermining my relationship with my daughter, teaching my daughter that she has two dads," Barnes said. A judge later ruled that the child could have no contact with Threeton.
OK, the judge orders that the child shouldn't be visiting the boyfriend in prison.

Quote:
Another point of contention, Barnes said, was a "revolving door" of men at Abelseth’s home. He repeatedly asked that Abelseth be held in contempt for allowing various men to sleep over when their daughter was present – in violation of their custody agreement, court papers show.

"Her mother goes through men like a revolving door," he said. "Men were coming in and out of my child’s life. She had three husbands in six years and it wasn’t healthy."
So she is violating the custody agreement by having all these men sleeping over, and continuing to visit the boyfriend.

Quote:
Barnes sued for sole custody in May 2015, accusing Abelseth of continuing to foster a relationship between her daughter and Threeton and having men stay overnight at the home when the daughter was present. He also asked for a fresh accounting of their child support obligations.

A month later, on July 1, 2015, Abelseth filed a police report for the first time, alleging that Barnes had raped her, according to a document obtained by WBRZ.
Coincidental timing.

Quote:
In December 2020, Barnes again moved for expanded custody, accusing Abelseth of allowing their daughter, then 14, to "make out" with her 17-year-old boyfriend in her room unsupervised.

He also accused Abelseth of providing their daughter with a second cellphone with unfettered access to social media when she already had one with parental controls that he had given her.

A few weeks later, Abelseth contacted the Department of Child and Family Services to report that Barnes had allegedly pulled their child’s hair and ear, and that the young girl was afraid to go to his house. She moved to limit Barnes’ custody.

Cache presided over a hearing in May 2021, which centered on the secret cellphone the daughter had allegedly been using to upload "various sexually explicit TikTok posts," according to court papers.

he was also sending "inappropriate photos" via the phone — including a picture of herself with a boy in a bed and sexually explicit messages, the papers say.

The judge denied each parent’s request for expanded custody but ordered them to obtain the phone’s passcode and review its contents.

Five months later, according to the judge, Abelseth still had not turned over the child’s phone and claimed it had been wiped and stolen.

Cache held her in contempt for letting the child have a third phone, banned the child from having another device and ordered both parents to have logins for the young girl's social media accounts. He also ordered Abelseth to pay Barne’s $500 in legal fees.
If this is true, was the mother being honest in the original story about losing custody because she bought her daughter a phone. She seems to have been repeatedly breaching the custody agreement in a variety of ways over a period of years.

Quote:
A hearing officer ruled on March 18 that "all criminal charges are not being accepted — medical evidence does not support allegations in petition."

Abelseth, who was home with the flu, voluntarily dismissed the restraining order at the hearing through her attorney, according to court documents.
So, her 15 year old daughter has been raped and she doesn't show up and instructs her lawyer to let the rapist have access to her daughter again?

This is the view from the other side. He could be lying. The judge could be lying. It looks to me like the summaries we are getting from different people conflict wildly. Is the mother telling the truth when she claims she lost custody because she innocently bought her daughter a phone?
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:15 AM   #545
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Wow, there is no limits to what these two women will lie about to slander this innocent website developer, is there? Poor guy. My heart bleeds.

At least he's got a bunch of people here who aren't jumping to conclusion.

No True Skeptic™ would be caught dead doing that.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:30 AM   #546
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The "other side of the story" doesn't really seem to change much with regards to the overall plot.

We already know he says he didn't do it.

That article really shows how ****** up the system in that area is though. Why the hell does Barnes get to say who Abelseth has in her house? None of the men that were there are accused of doing any wrong, and unless I'm missing something, it's none of his ******* business who she sees and who she doesn't.

The main impression I get is he is extremely overbearing, if you ask me. He wants to control everything and everyone in this situation. I'm more interested in what the daughter has to say now more than ever.

Abelseth has a masters degree, but it doesn't say in what and one thing that struck me as odd is the judge determined that she should be paying him because, per the article, "she should be making $80,000 a year". If anything in that article is true, it sounds like there is a massive issue with the legal system there.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:31 AM   #547
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
In all honesty, who really gives a **** what was reported to CPS at the time of birth?
I was thinking the same thing. It's not important what was done when the baby was born, but when the actual father's paternity was established. Didn't they actually do a paternity test at some point to establish he was the father?

At the point that was confirmed, THAT is when he should have been busted for it.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:32 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Wow, there is no limits to what these two women will lie about to slander this innocent website developer, is there? Poor guy. My heart bleeds.

At least he's got a bunch of people here who aren't jumping to conclusion.

No True Skeptic™ would be caught dead doing that.

So all the stuff about putting Threeton on the birth certificate and agreeing to joint custody with Barnes is a lie?
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:33 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I was thinking the same thing. It's not important what was done when the baby was born, but when the actual father's paternity was established. Didn't they actually do a paternity test at some point to establish he was the father?

At the point that was confirmed, THAT is when he should have been busted for it.
Per shuttit's link, he's going with the "I didn't know her age" defense, which is what I was hoping he would go with since it makes no difference where he lives. I don't know why he decided to talk to the news, but he definitely should have spoken with a lawyer first because he might have just stepped in it.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:36 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
So all the stuff about putting Threeton on the birth certificate and agreeing to joint custody with Barnes is a lie?
First, despite my post coming second, I wrote it and posted it at the same time as he did. I hadn't seen the information he presented because I'm not omnipotent.

Secondly, how the hell would putting Threeton on the birth certificate negatively effect Barnes? My post was sarcasm. If anything, it goes to show that she wanted nothing to do with Barnes at all.

I'm sure she agreed to joint custody, overall she seems like she's been relatively reasonable with him, considering the circumstances.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:41 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Not sure if this has been posted yet:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/louisiana...child-says-lie


Maybe he would say that?


So, we have our answers to some questions. The boyfriend was indeed on the birth certificate. The paternity tests were initiated by the mother. The original custody agreement was voluntary and didn't involve the court. Maybe that explains a little of how he ended up with custody.


OK, the judge orders that the child shouldn't be visiting the boyfriend in prison.


So she is violating the custody agreement by having all these men sleeping over, and continuing to visit the boyfriend.


Coincidental timing.


If this is true, was the mother being honest in the original story about losing custody because she bought her daughter a phone. She seems to have been repeatedly breaching the custody agreement in a variety of ways over a period of years.


So, her 15 year old daughter has been raped and she doesn't show up and instructs her lawyer to let the rapist have access to her daughter again?

This is the view from the other side. He could be lying. The judge could be lying. It looks to me like the summaries we are getting from different people conflict wildly. Is the mother telling the truth when she claims she lost custody because she innocently bought her daughter a phone?
None of this impacts his having raped her. That can’t go away so long as he is the father, she was sixteen, and he was more than 4 years older than her at the time of conception.
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Old 21st June 2022, 10:52 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...snip..

The problem I have, more than this, is that it's not just her case that they've ****** up on. There is still a rape kit out there somewhere that could show the father is raping his daughter. That takes more effort than to put a file on a shelf and forget about it. It's a bit active on the "cover-up" scale.

...snip...
Sadly and I think it does still represent the low priority given to many claims of rape, loss of rape kits, destruction of kits and massive backlogs is pretty much the norm. It's widespread.


Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...snip..
While I feel sorry for the mother, I feel more sorry for the daughter.
Yeah if the allegations are true than she has had a horrendous life.
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:34 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
None of this impacts his having raped her. That can’t go away so long as he is the father, she was sixteen, and he was more than 4 years older than her at the time of conception.
Perhaps, but it's hardly the only thing going on.
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:39 AM   #554
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Boy, it sure is curious that the first article we read on this case made absolutely no mention of the claim by Abelseth that Barnes had sexually assaulted their daughter, even though she made those claims back in February. Guess she completely forgot to mention that to the reporter?
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:40 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Perhaps, but it's hardly the only thing going on.
But still a rapist, still shouldn’t be in the discussion for continued custody.

The latest, if true, does demonstrate that there was no reason at all to believe rape had occurred at the time of the birth and it does cast some doubt as to other aspects of the cross-allegations, but it still doesn’t explain why the cops ignored the mothers claims of forcible rape, and why no agency was interested in the fact that there was zero doubt that felony statutory rape had occurred once paternity was established.
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Old 21st June 2022, 11:49 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
The latest, if true, does demonstrate that there was no reason at all to believe rape had occurred at the time of the birth and it does cast some doubt as to other aspects of the cross-allegations, but it still doesn’t explain why the cops ignored the mothers claims of forcible rape, .
Oh I know the answer there, because cops frequently ignore rape accusations, remember you can't sue the cops because they are too lazy to do their job. Hell Seattle just stopped investigating sexual assaults of adults because they won't staff their sex crimes unit properly.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...al-memo-shows/
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:03 PM   #557
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
and why no agency was interested in the fact that there was zero doubt that felony statutory rape had occurred once paternity was established.
Wouldn't agency interest hinge on the agency being formally aware of it in some actionable way?

I doubt there's a clerk at the DA's office, whose job it is to track paternity suits, do the sums, and alert their boss whenever they discover that if the math is right, someone committed statutory rape sixteen years earlier.
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:04 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Oh I know the answer there, because cops frequently ignore rape accusations, remember you can't sue the cops because they are too lazy to do their job. Hell Seattle just stopped investigating sexual assaults of adults because they won't staff their sex crimes unit properly.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...al-memo-shows/
I actually prefer this reason over the alternative .
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:09 PM   #559
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
But still a rapist, still shouldn’t be in the discussion for continued custody.....
Doesn't being convicted have something to do with that?
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Old 21st June 2022, 12:15 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by sarge View Post
But still a rapist, still shouldn’t be in the discussion for continued custody.

The latest, if true, does demonstrate that there was no reason at all to believe rape had occurred at the time of the birth and it does cast some doubt as to other aspects of the cross-allegations, but it still doesn’t explain why the cops ignored the mothers claims of forcible rape, and why no agency was interested in the fact that there was zero doubt that felony statutory rape had occurred once paternity was established.
Would that scenario typically be prosecuted? I'm not saying it never has been, but if you went running to the police to say 5 years ago some guy had sex with a 16 year old he met drinking in a bar with a fake ID, and she said it was consensual, would they really pursue it? Would that scenario, in the absence of a conviction typically result in a loss of custody? There are certainly cases where female teachers have had sex with their students and gotten pregnant. Are their babies normally snatched away from them?

I'm just not sure that this is the clear slam dunk, line in the sand it is being presented as.
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