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Old 16th February 2022, 07:17 AM   #1
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9-year-old girl struck by bullet in truck dies, suspect says he was chasing robber

9-year-old girl struck by bullet in truck dies, suspect says he was chasing robber


Quote:
A 9-year-old girl died after a man who was held up at a Houston ATM fired at her family's pickup truck while attempting to shoot the robbery suspect, police said.

The suspect in the shooting, identified by police as Tony Earls, 41, was making a transaction at a drive-thru ATM at 2900 Woodridge Dr. in southeastern Houston with his wife Monday shortly before 10 p.m. when he was robbed at gunpoint, according to police.

One of those rounds struck the back window of the pickup truck, which was occupied by a family of five that was not involved in the robbery, police said. A 9-year-old girl in the rear passenger seat was struck during the shooting, police said.

The girl, who has not been publicly identified by authorities, was transported to Memorial Hermann Hospital in critical condition. She was pronounced dead Tuesday afternoon, police said.
But he's a good guy with a gun! He should get a medal for his heroic act!
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:25 AM   #2
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I know it varies a lot state by state but I do wonder if her killing would be classed as a felony murder by the robber?
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
9-year-old girl struck by bullet in truck dies, suspect says he was chasing robber


But he's a good guy with a gun! He should get a medal for his heroic act!
I wonder how much the robber got away with? I hope the family sues him and takes enough that he never has to worry about depositing money in an ATM again. He needs to pay for being reckless
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:30 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I know it varies a lot state by state but I do wonder if her killing would be classed as a felony murder by the robber?
I would guess that it would be in Texas, which is the correct charge. I didn't read the article but did Rambo actually hit the person who robbed him?
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:37 AM   #5
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File this under "Reasons to Ban Projectile Weapons for use in Public"
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:38 AM   #6
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For those who didn't read the article:

Quote:
"Earls first shot at the robbery suspect, who was fleeing on foot, and then at a pickup truck he thought the robbery suspect had gotten into," police said.
So it wasn't even that he fired at the robber and missed and the bullet happened to strike a vehicle full of innocent people: he fired at the vehicle deliberately because he thought the robber got into it. I know other people's mileage varies, but I've never held "I was firing at the fleeing person" as legitimate self-defense, even if they shot the correct person.
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
For those who didn't read the article:

So it wasn't even that he fired at the robber and missed and the bullet happened to strike a vehicle full of innocent people: he fired at the vehicle deliberately because he thought the robber got into it. I know other people's mileage varies, but I've never held "I was firing at the fleeing person" as legitimate self-defense, even if they shot the correct person.
Then he should absolutely be charged. He knowingly shot and killed an innocent person. He should go to prison for life and, as I mentioned, be sued into oblivion. I'd even add that he should be kicked in the balls every morning. Just for good measure.
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
For those who didn't read the article:



So it wasn't even that he fired at the robber and missed and the bullet happened to strike a vehicle full of innocent people: he fired at the vehicle deliberately because he thought the robber got into it. I know other people's mileage varies, but I've never held "I was firing at the fleeing person" as legitimate self-defense, even if they shot the correct person.
Texas, though. Actually legal. Not sure if they are going to wing it with this Mistake of Fact, though. Didn't fly with Amber Guyger
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:51 AM   #9
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Oh, he has been charged....

Quote:
According to police, 41-year-old Tony D. Earls has been charged with aggravated assault with serious bodily injury in connection with the shooting.
So that's good! Rambo did miss though:

Quote:
Authorities said they do not have a description of the robber and don't believe he was hit by gunfire.
The father is way more understanding than I would be:

Quote:
"Like I said, I have guns too," the heartbroken father said. "I'm not against guns. I get it. The guy was protecting himself, but have more common sense. There is no reason for you to shoot more than three times when the robber was already two blocks down."
The article also details the sequence of events. The guy robbed Tony, and Alvarez kind of sped up when he heard the shots, but it was towards the shooter. So Tony apparently thought Alvarez did it, and shot multiple times. Tough break.
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:51 AM   #10
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I'm honestly surprised (not really) at the sole charge the shooter is facing, aggravated assault serious bodily injury for the girl he shot, though it will likely be upped now that the child has died.

In Texas (relevant law starting here PENAL § 9.41) it is illegal to shoot someone fleeing with your property, allowing lethal force only to prevent situations like the claimed 'robbery at gunpoint'. After the fact only non-lethal force is allowed by law, certainly after the 'robbery at gunpoint' was over that is exactly what happened here.

This guy should have been booked on more than just the one count for even attempting to shoot a fleeing robber.

Last edited by TalosMarr; 16th February 2022 at 07:56 AM. Reason: To remove quote to post that was changed
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:04 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TalosMarr View Post
I'm honestly surprised (not really) at the sole charge the shooter is facing, aggravated assault serious bodily injury for the girl he shot, though it will likely be upped now that the child has died.

In Texas (relevant law starting here PENAL § 9.41) it is illegal to shoot someone fleeing with your property, allowing lethal force only to prevent situations like the claimed 'robbery at gunpoint'. After the fact only non-lethal force is allowed by law, certainly after the 'robbery at gunpoint' was over that is exactly what happened here.

This guy should have been booked on more than just the one count for even attempting to shoot a fleeing robber.
Read part (b) of your cited statute carefully. The shooting was legal in Texan eyes.

And this father is championing gun rights after this Yahoo killed his own daughter? Wtf?
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Read part (b) of your cited statute carefully. The shooting was legal in Texan eyes.

And this father is championing gun rights after this Yahoo killed his own daughter? Wtf?
You are correct. My brain derped out the relevant portion the 12 times I read it before posting.

So ignore my post y'all and never try to do law things on two hours of sleep I guess.
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by TalosMarr View Post
You are correct. My brain derped out the relevant portion the 12 times I read it before posting.

So ignore my post y'all and never try to do law things on two hours of sleep I guess.
It's not you. Any rational mind would have trouble processing the implication of that murderous statute.
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:16 AM   #14
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Worth it to try to get that $200 back. This is texas after all. Do they shield lawful shooters from collateral damage lawsuits like they do in other gun friendly states?
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:25 AM   #15
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The shooting was not legal in Texas. This was not self-defense and it wasn't on private property. There was no imminent threat to the shooter. It's definitely a disproportionate and reckless action. Indeed, he has already been charged and those charges will likely increase. Hopefully to murder.
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:32 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The shooting was not legal in Texas. This was not self-defense and it wasn't on private property. There was no imminent threat to the shooter. It's definitely a disproportionate and reckless action. Indeed, he has already been charged and those charges will likely increase. Hopefully to murder.
The whole thing with

"(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor;  or

(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor."

That sounds like shooting at people fleeing with your property is permitted in texas. Though I guess cash could in theory not count as tangible movable property in a legal definition.

It certainly shows that Texas recognizes reasons to shoot someone who is fleeing for reasons other than self defense.
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:37 AM   #17
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There was a story a few years back where a guy got robbed by a hooker and he chased her downstairs to a car waiting out in the street, that said guy proceeded to pepper with rifle fire, killing the driver. Guy was found clean under Texas law.
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Old 16th February 2022, 08:43 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Read part (b) of your cited statute carefully. The shooting was legal in Texan eyes.

And this father is championing gun rights after this Yahoo killed his own daughter? Wtf?
That's the really insane part for me. The father is saying the guy was defending himself by shooting at someone running away. They have some weird idea about defence in Texas.

His kid is dead because of this trigger happy wazoo and he is still defending his right to shoot people who are fleeing.
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Old 16th February 2022, 09:00 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
That's the really insane part for me. The father is saying the guy was defending himself by shooting at someone running away. They have some weird idea about defence in Texas.

His kid is dead because of this trigger happy wazoo and he is still defending his right to shoot people who are fleeing.
Like you said, it's Texas. If he makes a big deal about it, or complains about gun rights, it wouldn't be well received down there. It sounds like he's building a house, works as an electrician, and is in shock. I guess I don't know what I'd say. It sounds like a ****** up form of conditioning though.
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Old 16th February 2022, 09:38 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
works as an electrician, and is in shock
Too soon?
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Old 16th February 2022, 09:47 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Too soon?
If it makes any difference, it wasn't on purpose lol.
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Old 16th February 2022, 10:01 AM   #22
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Powerful words from an amped-up father.
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Old 16th February 2022, 10:02 AM   #23
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Guns are used up to 200,000 times per year to prevent crimes. We don't know how many other children were saved in those 200,000*. The father expects collateral damage.

A true skeptic is un-emotional when presented with data. "Think of the children" /child is a plea to emotion.

*under Obama, the CDC looked into it. They said 20,000-200,000 crimes prevented by guns annually- usually be merely showing that you have one. So the Obama admin did not pursue additional anti-gun laws.
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Old 16th February 2022, 10:05 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Guns are used up to 200,000 times per year to prevent crimes. We don't know how many other children were saved in those 200,000*. The father expects collateral damage.

A true skeptic is un-emotional when presented with data. "Think of the children" /child is a plea to emotion.

*under Obama, the CDC looked into it. They said 20,000-200,000 crimes prevented by guns annually- usually be merely showing that you have one. So the Obama admin did not pursue additional anti-gun laws.
Home boy wasn't preventing a crime. That part was done and over. He waa in the Avenging stage, and also failed to properly identify his target, acting recklessly and ending the life of uninvolved parties.
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Old 16th February 2022, 11:02 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Guns are used up to 200,000 times per year to prevent crimes. We don't know how many other children were saved in those 200,000*. The father expects collateral damage.

A true skeptic is un-emotional when presented with data. "Think of the children" /child is a plea to emotion.
"Think of all the children saved by defensive gun use! Also, stop using 'think of the children' when it comes to gun use!"



Originally Posted by casebro View Post
*under Obama, the CDC looked into it. They said 20,000-200,000 crimes prevented by guns annually- usually be merely showing that you have one. So the Obama admin did not pursue additional anti-gun laws.
The CDC "looked into it"? What exactly does that mean? Has gun violence or defensive gun use actually been meaningfully researched? Surveys don't count. Of course every dudebro with a gun is going to say they've deterred crime with the pew pew. I'm asking if there's actual evidence.
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Old 16th February 2022, 11:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
"Think of all the children saved by defensive gun use! Also, stop using 'think of the children' when it comes to gun use!"





The CDC "looked into it"? What exactly does that mean? Has gun violence or defensive gun use actually been meaningfully researched? Surveys don't count. Of course every dudebro with a gun is going to say they've deterred crime with the pew pew. I'm asking if there's actual evidence.
I sense the Butterfly Effect here. How do we know that the Good Guy With a GunTM didn't cause one of the children he saved to turn left instead of right at the next crosswalk, leading them into a hail of gunfire or life of raping and murdering?
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Old 16th February 2022, 11:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
"Think of all the children saved by defensive gun use! Also, stop using 'think of the children' when it comes to gun use!"





The CDC "looked into it"? What exactly does that mean? Has gun violence or defensive gun use actually been meaningfully researched? Surveys don't count. Of course every dudebro with a gun is going to say they've deterred crime with the pew pew. I'm asking if there's actual evidence.
I sense the Butterfly Effect here. How do we know that the Good Guy With a GunTM didn't cause one of the children he saved to turn left instead of right at the next crosswalk, leading them into a hail of gunfire or life of raping and murdering? I mean the Good Guy could have created Dexter.
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Old 16th February 2022, 11:13 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post


The CDC "looked into it"? What exactly does that mean? Has gun violence or defensive gun use actually been meaningfully researched? Surveys don't count. Of course every dudebro with a gun is going to say they've deterred crime with the pew pew. I'm asking if there's actual evidence.
It would be interesting to see such data. I imagine it's hard to capture, especially how do you measure the severity of crimes that were prevented? Does sending an armed robber running at the sight of a gun mean you prevented a murder or just a robbery? Hard to say compared to measuring dead people in the morgue.

It would be interesting if any such study was granular about the circumstances of any defensive gun use, such as whether it was someone carrying a gun on their person in public vs in their home, business, or car.
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Old 16th February 2022, 12:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
The whole thing with

"(a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor;  or

(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor."

That sounds like shooting at people fleeing with your property is permitted in texas. Though I guess cash could in theory not count as tangible movable property in a legal definition.

It certainly shows that Texas recognizes reasons to shoot someone who is fleeing for reasons other than self defense.

That’s one subsection of a law (Section 9 of the penal code) that is much bigger. It’s not legal to shoot at (i.e., use deadly force on) a fleeing thief in public unless you have a reasonable belief that there is no other way to recover the property. Clearly not the case here; he couldn’t have had a reasonable belief that he could even hit the target from that distance and the presence of others in the vicinity made such shooting reckless. The most reasonable course of action was to call the police and hope the thief can be identified from security footage and perhaps sue the bank for not having adequate security at their ATM.

In any case, it’s also quite illegal to hit an innocent bystander regardless of any justification you may have had for shooting at someone else.

Texans in general do tend to be supportive of using guns to protect themselves or their property, but I think you would be hard pressed to find many who would find this kind of shooting justifiable. It’s clearly reckless and irresponsible.
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Old 16th February 2022, 02:35 PM   #30
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Gun culture at work.
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Old 16th February 2022, 02:44 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Guns are used up to 200,000 times per year to prevent crimes. We don't know how many other children were saved in those 200,000*. The father expects collateral damage.

A true skeptic is un-emotional when presented with data. "Think of the children" /child is a plea to emotion.

*under Obama, the CDC looked into it. They said 20,000-200,000 crimes prevented by guns annually- usually be merely showing that you have one. So the Obama admin did not pursue additional anti-gun laws.
Sounds legit. Oh, wait

Originally Posted by CNN (Yes I know)
"My job is to understand and evaluate the problem, to understand the scope of the problem, to understand why this happens and what are the things that can make it better - to research that, to scale that up, to evaluate it and to make sure that we can integrate it into communities," Walensky said. "We have a lot of work to do in every single one of those areas because we haven't done a lot of work as a nation in almost any of them."
The CDC once did these kinds of studies -- until 1997, when the NRA convinced Congress to cut all of the CDC's funding for gun research, a loss equivalent to millions of dollars a year.
In 2018, then President Donald Trump signed a government spending bill that allowed the CDC to conduct gun violence research, and in 2020 and 2021 Congress agreed to millions of dollars for gun violence research for the first time in decades, allocating $25 million split between the CDC and the US National Institutes of Health.
Link
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Old 16th February 2022, 03:25 PM   #32
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

"The claim that gun ownership stops crime is common in the U.S., and that belief drives laws that make it easy to own and keep firearms. But about 30 careful studies show more guns are linked to more crimes: murders, rapes, and others. Far less research shows that guns help."

"In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not."

Last edited by RolandRat; 16th February 2022 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 16th February 2022, 04:16 PM   #33
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsi...h=11abb774299a

Seems pretty balanced, talks abut over- and under estimates of defensive gun use. and:
" 3) We don’t know why the CDC chose not to publish that data from the 1990s.

One CDC official in the 1990s openly told the Washington Post that his goal was to create a public perception of gun ownership as something “dirty, deadly — and banned.”
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Old 16th February 2022, 04:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
For those who didn't read the article:



So it wasn't even that he fired at the robber and missed and the bullet happened to strike a vehicle full of innocent people: he fired at the vehicle deliberately because he thought the robber got into it. I know other people's mileage varies, but I've never held "I was firing at the fleeing person" as legitimate self-defense, even if they shot the correct person.
It depends on the shooter's and the fleeing person's skin color here in the USA.
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Old 16th February 2022, 05:42 PM   #35
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Rodney Crowell’s song about that part of Houston, Telephone Road, does not mention armed robbery. Must have just left it off. But he also leaves out Mexican food, so maybe his lyrics shouldn’t be taken at their word.

Steve Earle’s song of the same name matches my recollection of the area better. But he doesn’t even mention ATMs.

Both good songs.
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Old 16th February 2022, 06:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Guns are used up to 200,000 times per year to prevent crimes. We don't know how many other children were saved in those 200,000*. The father expects collateral damage.

A true skeptic is un-emotional when presented with data. "Think of the children" /child is a plea to emotion.

*under Obama, the CDC looked into it. They said 20,000-200,000 crimes prevented by guns annually- usually be merely showing that you have one. So the Obama admin did not pursue additional anti-gun laws.
20,000 to 200,000.

That could contextually be construed to mean they have few standards or data enough to reach a conclusion- let alone phrase the question properly.

"It could be this number- or it could be ten times this number" Sounds a lot like " We have no idea how often it happens".
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Old 16th February 2022, 06:32 PM   #37
AmyStrange
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Guns are used up to 200,000 times per year to prevent crimes. We don't know how many other children were saved in those 200,000*. The father expects collateral damage.

A true skeptic is un-emotional when presented with data. "Think of the children" /child is a plea to emotion.

*under Obama, the CDC looked into it. They said 20,000-200,000 crimes prevented by guns annually- usually be merely showing that you have one. So the Obama admin did not pursue additional anti-gun laws.
Like someone else posted (Distracted1 in post #36), those numbers are suspicious, and I wonder if that includes folks with signs that say, "BEWARE: the owner has a gun."

If their home hasn't been robbed once that year, well then, that's 365 preventions right there, and one extra for leap year.

I'm not against gun ownership, but I am against stupid people owning guns.
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Last edited by AmyStrange; 16th February 2022 at 06:43 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 16th February 2022, 06:54 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
There was a story a few years back where a guy got robbed by a hooker and he chased her downstairs to a car waiting out in the street, that said guy proceeded to pepper with rifle fire, killing the driver. Guy was found clean under Texas law.
I wonder what evidence he had that he was even robbed?

I mean, couldn't someone just shoot someone else, killing them, and then claim (after the fact) that he was robbed and that's why that person was killed?

ETA: I wonder if that (and the original OP) was (or will be) included in the 20,000 to 200,000 times guns prevented crimes?
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Last edited by AmyStrange; 16th February 2022 at 06:58 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by AmyStrange View Post
I wonder what evidence he had that he was even robbed?

I mean, couldn't someone just shoot someone else, killing them, and then claim after the fact that he was robbed and that's why the driver was killed?
For sure, but in this case, the hooker and the shooter agreed on what happened, factually. Each evidently thought telling the truth would get them off.

I tried to link the story using keyword search, and found so many stories about Texans shooting drivers and hookers and robberies that I honestly can't find it. That's kind of poignant in its way. Something will jog my memory of a name and I'll find the story, and link when I do.
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Old 16th February 2022, 07:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
For sure, but in this case, the hooker and the shooter agreed on what happened, factually. Each evidently thought telling the truth would get them off.

I tried to link the story using keyword search, and found so many stories about Texans shooting drivers and hookers and robberies that I honestly can't find it. That's kind of poignant in its way. Something will jog my memory of a name and I'll find the story, and link when I do.
Yeah, I'll bet, and I wonder how many of those other "stories" were real robberies also, but thanks for the effort.
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