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Old 18th September 2017, 07:34 AM   #81
beachnut
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"standard 9/11 truth investigation protocol" - ignore evidence, makeup fantasy

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since when is following standard fire investigation protocol a conspiracy theory?
That is not rocky logic, it is more like trying to pulling a rabbit out your hat, ending up with BS.

Oh noes, you got us now. Who had a clue what started the largest office fires in history on multiple floors in seconds, twice in one day. You mean if we had followed standard fire investigation protocol, aka finding out the cause (two jets with 66,000 gallons of jet fuel and an engine running full bore at thousands of degrees) of the biggest office fires in history. If only we followed SFIP, we would be okay, solving 19 terrorists did 9/11 in a shorter period.

You are joking, kidding. Did you know the goal of standard fire investigation protocol. Can it be to figure out what started the fire. Does 9/11 truth fool you, with the no clue who and how the fires were started on 9/11. Classic 9/11 truth, ignore evidence, spread BS freely. Fooled by "standard dumbed down 9/11 truth claims", the NWO "failed to follow standard fire investigation protocol". Now we will never know who and what started the fires.

Classic - "standard 9/11 truth investigation protocol", ignore evidence and spread lies, all based on BS.

Is this how the JFK CT fantasy, works. Failed logic, invalid claims.

Why not say the firemen forgot to tie their shoes using "standard fire department protocol". 9/11 truth failed to figure out 9/11 after 16 years. The record for figuring out 9/11 is minutes. Passengers on Flight 93 did it in minutes, took action. 16 years laters 9/11 truth followers (followers) are making excuses for 9/11 truth CD fantasy, using dumbed down illogical taglines. Is there a book of illogical laws of Fysics for 9/11 truth lies.

What is the purpose of standard fire investigation protocol

Quote:
Using expertise in fire science, engineering, and chemistry to find the cause.
Gee whiz, on 9/11 it could not be the two jets hitting the WTC which was the cause of the biggest office fires in history. It could not be the 10,000 gallons, 66,000 pounds of jet fuel ignited in less than a second, spreading fires to multiple floors in seconds. Nope it had to be some hidden cause, some outlandish BS conspiracy theory made up by people who refuse to accept evidence.

9/11 truth followers continue to use failed taglines, like, standard fire investigation protocol. Why give up on failed claims, keep repeating them, maybe the presentation can be improved.

... what the primary goal of fire investigation is... what caused the fire. Wonder if the FBI figured out who started the fire, and with what; 9/11 truth has no clue.
What caused the fire in the fantasy version of 9/11.
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Last edited by beachnut; 18th September 2017 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:01 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since when is following standard fire investigation protocol a conspiracy theory?
The idea that the investigation did not follow protocol, usually refers to NFPA 921, and is covered here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...51&postcount=1
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:10 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Hurricane Erin? Well they seem to think that was guided and controlled by HAARP. Because it seems that nothing is good enough but that the US is hell bent on self destruction. The HAARP induce hurricanes are simply a means of forcing the seeple into the FEMA death camps for extermination when "Marshall" law is declared last century. Once "marshall" law is declared and the evil (insert bugbear of choice) are eliminated, the remaining reptilians will rule over <something> which will be themselves and insufficient to sustain themselves. Meanwhile, the GMO conspiracy will have come to fruition by dint of the chemtrails and there will be no people left to raise them. Oh, and this will only happen in murka, because nothing else exists.

The illuminutty just want to kill everyone, because...because...

Well, they are evil, I guess.It seems to matter not a whit that they would be killing themselves at the same time.

Figure that lunacy out. I can't.

I can't get any of them to explain how Erin played a role. They just reference it and go "There. All the power you need.".

Was Erin supposedly controlled by HAARP as you say and blew the Towers down? Or did they run an extension cord from Erin to the Death Star? I can't get anyone to answer that question.
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Last edited by cantonear1968; 18th September 2017 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Italiscizing. Forgot I wasn't on YT.
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:12 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
The idea that the investigation did not follow protocol, usually refers to NFPA 921, and is covered here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...51&postcount=1

I'd be very careful using that as a reference:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=268292

The information isn't necessarily wrong, but the source doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:30 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
The information isn't necessarily wrong, but the source doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
It's not actually necessary, though, to appeal to anyone's authority here; we can simply refer to the evidence. MicahJava has implied through the complex question fallacy, without actually making a definite statement on the matter, that standard fire investigation protocol was not followed by the investigations into the building collapses on 9/11. As no actual claim has been made, there's not yet anything to respond to.

If MicahJava wants to make an actual claim, then I suggest he do so, and we can then examine it against NFPA 921. A reasonable claim would take the form:

[Investigation name] failed to follow NFPA 921 in that NFPA 921 specifies [action 1] whereas [investigation name] actually took [action 2].

In the absence of any such claim, MicahJava need not be considered to have claimed anything at all and can simply be ignored. A claim that doesn't specify how some investigation failed to follow NFPA921 can be treated the same, according to Hitchens' Razor. And a claim that does specify can be examined sensibly, which I suspect is not what MicahJava is hoping for.

Dave
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Old 18th September 2017, 08:41 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
It's not actually necessary, though, to appeal to anyone's authority here; we can simply refer to the evidence. MicahJava has implied through the complex question fallacy, without actually making a definite statement on the matter, that standard fire investigation protocol was not followed by the investigations into the building collapses on 9/11. As no actual claim has been made, there's not yet anything to respond to.

If MicahJava wants to make an actual claim, then I suggest he do so, and we can then examine it against NFPA 921. A reasonable claim would take the form:

[Investigation name] failed to follow NFPA 921 in that NFPA 921 specifies [action 1] whereas [investigation name] actually took [action 2].

In the absence of any such claim, MicahJava need not be considered to have claimed anything at all and can simply be ignored. A claim that doesn't specify how some investigation failed to follow NFPA921 can be treated the same, according to Hitchens' Razor. And a claim that does specify can be examined sensibly, which I suspect is not what MicahJava is hoping for.

Dave

Point well taken.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:00 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What is "standard fire investigation protocol" in your opinion?

It seems to me that this is something gleaned from TV, like the bovine notion that all crashed aircraft are painstakingly reconstructed fragment by fragment in every case. (they're not. it's rare for that to occur. But TV makes people believe that they are.)
The NFPA 921 guide for fire and explosion investigation has many passages which fits the characteristics of the WTC.

9/11 Investigations should be subject to the very best methods!
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:05 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
The idea that the investigation did not follow protocol, usually refers to NFPA 921, and is covered here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...51&postcount=1
That's not even half of the important stuff, and what that comment did address is only "refuted" with BS. For example, they imply that explosions that cause fire were not seen with the WTC. We know this is false. Want witnesses who saw fireballs DURING THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE shooting out of the ground floors? Look no further than Ron DeFranceso or reporter Carol Martin. DeFrancesco even had the burns to prove it!

The NFPA 921 does not have legal power, it's just a collection of the bare minimum of what you can do. And they didn't even follow that for the worst disaster ever!

Last edited by MicahJava; 18th September 2017 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:08 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
I'd be very careful using that as a reference:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=268292

The information isn't necessarily wrong, but the source doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Thanks for the heads up, did not know that.

Nevertheless NFPA 921 is not law or protocol, but guidelines that can be applied.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:15 AM   #90
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Ah, some actual claims.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The NFPA 921 does not have legal power,
This is not disputed.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
it's just a collection of the bare minimum of what you can do.
Please justify the claim that NFPA 921 specifies the bare minimum of what can be done to investigate a fire. As I understand it, it rather states that if applicable sections are not followed, investigators should justify why they were not followed, which has been done for the 9/11 investigations. If there are circumstances in which its recommendations need not be followed, then the term "bare minimum" to describe them is clearly incorrect.

Dave

ETA: I see that additional claims have been added.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
For example, they imply that explosions that cause fire were not seen with the WTC. We know this is false. Want witnesses who saw fireballs DURING THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE shooting out of the ground floors? Look no further than Ron DeFranceso or reporter Carol Martin. DeFrancesco even had the burns to prove it!
You will note that "fireballs" are not the same thing as explosions (technically, an explosion involves a supersonic shock wave), that explosions typically cause blast injuries which were not seen on 9/11, and that the emission of gouts of flame from a burning and collapsing building is what would be expected from simple physics. Your evidence doesn't therefore falsify the statement you want it to falsify; there is no persuasive evidence of explosions, as opposed to subsonic deflagrations or loud reports of undetermined origin, in any of the observations or testimonies concerning 9/11.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:17 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Josarhus View Post
Thanks for the heads up, did not know that.

Nevertheless NFPA 921 is not law or protocol, but guidelines that can be applied.
Absolutely. And not applicable, if I understand correctly, given the passage of NCSTAR.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:21 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's not even half of the important stuff, and what that comment did address is only "refuted" with BS. For example, they imply that explosions that cause fire were not seen with the WTC. We know this is false. Want witnesses who saw fireballs DURING THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE shooting out of the ground floors? Look no further than Ron DeFranceso or reporter Carol Martin. DeFrancesco even had the burns to prove it!

The NFPA 921 does not have legal power, it's just a collection of the bare minimum of what you can do. And they didn't even follow that for the worst disaster ever!
I would have to go and look up the exact quote, but the NFPA, in the public comments for the WTC7 Report complimented NIST for their thoroughness. Also referencing the job they did on the Towers. The very organization you are citing does not feel corners were cut or that NIST failed to follow proper investigatory protocol.
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Old 18th September 2017, 09:43 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The NFPA 921 guide for fire and explosion investigation has many passages which fits the characteristics of the WTC.

9/11 Investigations should be subject to the very best methods!
There is no doubt what caused the fires in the WTC. As for how the buildings performed, there were is no reason NFPA would be upset with how NIST did the work.

As for explosions, not one was due to explosives, or the fantasy thermite claims. You offer nothing as evidence that points to explosives. You ignore the facts, and have no evidence to support the claim.

Like the rest of 9/11 truth, pushing fake claims to support the CD fantasy, failed again.

https://www.nist.gov/el/faqs-nist-wtc-investigation

NFPA? You have no clue what you are talking about.

Quote:
In addition to the code changes adopted by the ICC, 15 changes have been made to key National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) fire standards based on the NIST WTC investigation recommendations.


lol, the NIST investigation has NFPA making changes based on the NIST investigation. This can't get worse for you unless you planned it. Did you plan to make a big fail?

I can't see how you will top this failure without extra effort.


Quote:
16. For its study of WTC 7, why didn't NIST follow the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) guidelines for conducting a fire investigation?
NFPA 921, "Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations," is a recommended methodology for optimizing investigations. NFPA 921 acknowledges that each investigation is unique, and that some investigations will require broader procedures than it can accommodate. This was especially true for NIST's WTC investigation, which responded to events that were much more than typical fires or explosions.
However, NIST's WTC 7 investigation did follow the core tenet of NFPA 921, which is the application of the scientific method. The investigation was carefully planned, sources of information were identified and contacted, the building fire and collapse event and the investigation were documented, available evidence was obtained (including documents about the design and construction of the structure), and the origin of the fire was determined based on images, laboratory testing (conducted for the towers, but applicable to WTC 7), and mathematical analyses.
Additionally, in its study of WTC 7, NIST considered all available data and evaluated a range of possible collapse mechanisms: uncontrolled fires on the tenant floors, fuel oil fires, hypothetical blast events, and fires within the Con Ed substation. NIST developed a working hypothesis, modeled the fires and the building, and then used the models to test the hypothesis against the observed behavior of the building. This approach is fully consistent with the principles of scientific inquiry. https://www.nist.gov/el/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation
Why are you always wrong on 9/11 issues? Are you doing this on purpose?
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Last edited by beachnut; 18th September 2017 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:18 AM   #94
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Whenever the NFPA 921 is brought up, liars resort to quote mining and BS "technicalities" to argue that the worst fire-related disaster in history doesn't deserve the best investigation.

Last edited by MicahJava; 18th September 2017 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:19 AM   #95
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Just to be clear, what is the official story on the fireballs reported by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Martin? Is it where the pressure from the collapsing upper floors shot down the office fires and then they came out like a jet from the ground floor?
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:20 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Whenever the NFPA 921 is brought up, liars resort to quote mining and BS to argue that the worst fire-related disaster in history doesn't deserve the best investigation.
Nice strawman. Show us one person in the thread that says it didn't deserve the best investigation. Quote them, word for word and link the post.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:27 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by heymatto70 View Post
Nice strawman. Show us one person in the thread that says it didn't deserve the best investigation. Quote them, word for word and link the post.
Since the official government investigation on WTC 7 has not only been proven to be inadequate, but actual scientific fraud, every liar's attitude is now literally "oh well, talking about it on the internet is good enough". Nice one. How many thousands are we at from 9/11-related deaths?
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:28 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
Read the FEMA report. Only a hundred or so pieces out of more than 100,000 tons of steel debris were collected, marked, and examined. Most of it was sold off as scrap for no valid reason.
Of course there was a valid reason to sell it as scrap. The cause of the collapse was obvious to anyone but a conspiracy theorist, and there was several buildings' worth of steel. Storing it for months or years would cost a considerable amount of money, with no useful purpose served. The notion that there was something remarkable about buildings collapsing after plane crashes had severely compromised the structure and large fires damaged them further (or debris from the towers and fire in the case of bldg. 7) is a complete load of nonsense.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:32 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since the official government investigation on WTC 7 has not only been proven to be inadequate, but actual scientific fraud, every liar's attitude is now literally "oh well, talking about it on the internet is good enough". Nice one. How many thousands are we at from 9/11-related deaths?
From wtc 7? None.

Say, I did enjoy the irony where you typed "every liar's attitude is now literally 'oh well, talking about it on the internet is good enough'" while lying about it on the internet.

Great stuff!!
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:36 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since the official government investigation on WTC 7 has not only been proven to be inadequate, but actual scientific fraud, every liar's attitude is now literally "oh well, talking about it on the internet is good enough". Nice one. How many thousands are we at from 9/11-related deaths?

Firefighters knew that WTC 7 was going to collapse based on the sounds of structural weakening heard within the building as fires continue to rage out of control, which is why a decision was made to pull them away from the building.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:40 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Just to be clear, what is the official story on the fireballs reported by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Martin? Is it where the pressure from the collapsing upper floors shot down the office fires and then they came out like a jet from the ground floor?

I assume that you are speaking of the so-called squibs. Such jets of air would have been expected due to the laws of physics.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:41 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
The only way to show whether or not a CD was involved is to examine the physical evidence.
This is not true, no matter how many times you repeat it.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:45 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Firefighters knew that WTC 7 was going to collapse based on the sounds of structural weakening heard within the building as fires continue to rage out of control, which is why a decision was made to pull them away from the building.
Actually, they were told by an "engineer" at around 11:30 AM that WTC 7 would collapse "in five or six hours". I don't know for sure if there was creaking at that time, but a lot of things can cause creaking, and that can not be used to justify such bizarrely precise advanced knowledge.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:46 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
I assume that you are speaking of the so-called squibs. Such jets of air would have been expected due to the laws of physics.
If you don't know about the case of Ron DiFrancesco, here is a compilation of all of his statements:

https://www.reddit.com/r/911TruthWik...n_difrancesco/
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:47 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
That's not even half of the important stuff, and what that comment did address is only "refuted" with BS. For example, they imply that explosions that cause fire were not seen with the WTC. We know this is false. Want witnesses who saw fireballs DURING THE ACTUAL COLLAPSE shooting out of the ground floors? Look no further than Ron DeFranceso or reporter Carol Martin. DeFrancesco even had the burns to prove it!

The NFPA 921 does not have legal power, it's just a collection of the bare minimum of what you can do. And they didn't even follow that for the worst disaster ever!

Once again, there were no explosives from explosives and the squibs seen as the WTC buildings are typical from compressed air as these photos show and note the ejection of dust plumes as the buildings collapse, which have nothing to do with explosives and I might add that the Verinage demolition does not use explosives.






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Old 18th September 2017, 10:52 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by heymatto70 View Post
I think TV also makes people think that when an object (lets say, oh, an airplane) travels at fast speeds and impacts something hard (like reinforced concrete on the Pentagon, just off the top of my head) it's supposed to cut out a hole the exact size and shape of a plane, just like Wile E Coyote does.
Well, then you also have the people who claim it's impossible for an aluminum plane (that they seem to imagine has the structrual integrity of a beer can) couldn't possibly penetrate the steel perimeter columns building at all, not withstanding that it was moving several hundred miles per hour, as well as the people who think that falling debris couldn't cause a collapse after it has broken into pieces (or "been destroyed").

Much of trutherism is based on a woeful lack of understanding of simple physics.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:56 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since the official government investigation on WTC 7 has not only been proven to be inadequate, but actual scientific fraud, every liar's attitude is now literally "oh well, talking about it on the internet is good enough". Nice one. How many thousands are we at from 9/11-related deaths?

You are skipping over how the very organization you are referencing has full faith in the NIST Report. I especially liked Beachnut's post how NFPA codes were changed because of the NIST Report.

You cannot claim NIST did an inadequate investigation by citing NFPA 921 when the NFPA themselves state you are wrong.
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:56 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If you don't know about the case of Ron DiFrancesco, here is a compilation of all of his statements:

https://www.reddit.com/r/911TruthWik...n_difrancesco/

That has been debunked many times in the past. Now, watch these videos and provide the time lines where demolition explosions are heard and failing to do so will prove my case that the collapse of the WTC buildings had nothing to do with explosives.



WTC 1 Collapse Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh4r-gHdyPU


WTC 2 Collapse Videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SSS0DDqfm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGAofwkAOlo


WTC 7 Collapse Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:56 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by cantonear1968 View Post
I can't get any of them to explain how Erin played a role. They just reference it and go "There. All the power you need.".

Was Erin supposedly controlled by HAARP as you say and blew the Towers down? Or did they run an extension cord from Erin to the Death Star? I can't get anyone to answer that question.
Well, there is certainly a lot of energy in a hurricane, but I'm not sure how they imagine it can be harnessed on command: Millions of portable wind turbines maybe?
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Old 18th September 2017, 10:57 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If you don't know about the case of Ron DiFrancesco, here is a compilation of all of his statements:

https://www.reddit.com/r/911TruthWik...n_difrancesco/

This is a separate matter from NIST's investigation and the NFPA.

I will however take a look.
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:00 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actually, they were told by an "engineer" at around 11:30 AM that WTC 7 would collapse "in five or six hours". I don't know for sure if there was creaking at that time, but a lot of things can cause creaking, and that can not be used to justify such bizarrely precise advanced knowledge.

Firefighters knew that the steel structure of WTC 7 was weakening. Not only did they hear the sounds of structural weakening, but they also saw that WTC 7 was buckling from the fires, which was another important clue that the building would eventually collapse.
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:02 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Firefighters knew that the steel structure of WTC 7 was weakening. Not only did they hear the sounds of structural weakening, but they also saw that WTC 7 was buckling from the fires, which was another important clue that the building would eventually collapse.
Yes I believe this is in the NIST WTC7 Report. Firefighters were examining the building at this time and knew it was in distress.
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:31 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Whenever the NFPA 921 is brought up, liars resort to quote mining and BS "technicalities" to argue that the worst fire-related disaster in history doesn't deserve the best investigation.
Lets be clear, the fire ball was due to fire, not explosives. No body saw an explosion due to explosives on 9/11. Thus the FBI, NIST, FEMA, and all the rational studies got it right, and did not find explosives as the cause of anything on 9/11.

Thus discussion of NFPA 921 Guidelines were followed because there was no evidence for explosives, thermite, or beam weapons on 9/11; those claims are delusional opinions based on nonsense.
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:33 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Firefighters knew that the steel structure of WTC 7 was weakening. Not only did they hear the sounds of structural weakening, but they also saw that WTC 7 was buckling from the fires, which was another important clue that the building would eventually collapse.
the fdny put a surveyor's transit on wtc7 so they could track the buckling caused by unfought fires
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:47 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Whenever the NFPA 921 is brought up, liars resort to quote mining and BS "technicalities" to argue that the worst fire-related disaster in history doesn't deserve the best investigation.
Since that's not true, one might wonder who the liars actually are. But again, you're not making affirmative claims, so this is merely noise. Did you actually have anything substantive to offer?

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:48 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Just to be clear, what is the official story on the fireballs reported by Ron DiFrancesco and Carol Martin?
Nobody cares about your fictitious "official story"; there is simply what happened. The "official story" is an invention of conspiracy theorists to form a convenient but spurious framework for Just Asking Questions.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:50 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Since the official government investigation on WTC 7 has not only been proven to be inadequate, but actual scientific fraud,
This is a lie. No such proof has been offered; truthers have just been coached to pretend it has and aren't intelligent or independent minded enough to question it.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:51 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actually, they were told by an "engineer" at around 11:30 AM that WTC 7 would collapse "in five or six hours".
Please present your evidence for this assertion.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:52 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
That has been debunked many times in the past. Now, watch these videos and provide the time lines where demolition explosions are heard and failing to do so will prove my case that the collapse of the WTC buildings had nothing to do with explosives.



WTC 1 Collapse Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh4r-gHdyPU


WTC 2 Collapse Videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SSS0DDqfm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGAofwkAOlo


WTC 7 Collapse Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A
Are you a bot? You didn't respond to the Ron DiFrancesco stuff at all. He was injured by a fiery explosion while escaping from the South Tower. He had the burns to prove it.

On the sounds of explosions issue, it is a matter of historical fact that WTC 7 emitted a loud percussive noise which was louder than the rest of the collapse itself. One witness described it as a "clap of thunder". It appears at the same time in the CBS video and the Ashley Banfield video.
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Old 18th September 2017, 11:53 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Please present your evidence for this assertion.

Dave
https://www.reddit.com/r/911truth/co..._firefighters/

A good first step for any investigation would be to track down this person and ask plenty of questions.
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