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Old 24th January 2018, 04:00 PM   #121
CORed
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I found a major flaw with your argument and it starts with the first sentence of your OP:



Not true. The 9/11 attacks were the impetus for the War on Terror, the formation of DHS, the Patriot Act, et al.

If both planes had completely missed the WTC Twin Towers, if they had crashed into empty fields or some duplex in Queens the post-attack results would have been no different. Collapse of the Twin Towers was incidental.

And lets not forget, there were two other targets besides the Twin Towers. So your opening premise is a false starting assumption, therefore what comes after is almost certainly false as well.
Well, it wouldn't surprise me if he claimed the Pentagon was empty when the plane (or missile or whatever his delusion is regarding the Pentagon) hit it too. It's no more or less insane than his claim that the WTC towers were empty.
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Old 24th January 2018, 04:05 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
I found a major flaw with your argument and it starts with the first sentence of your OP:



Not true. The 9/11 attacks were the impetus for the War on Terror, the formation of DHS, the Patriot Act, et al.

If both planes had completely missed the WTC Twin Towers, if they had crashed into empty fields or some duplex in Queens the post-attack results would have been no different. Collapse of the Twin Towers was incidental.

And lets not forget, there were two other targets besides the Twin Towers. So your opening premise is a false starting assumption, therefore what comes after is almost certainly false as well.
That is, after all, one of the sillier aspects of the "controlled demolition" idea in the truth movement. Even given that the Bush administration was evil enough to stage 9/11, it makes no sense that they would both arrange for planes to fly into it and demolish the buildings. Had the towers not collapsed, there still would have been at least several hundred people killed and the towers rendered useless. The same would be true had the towers collapsed without being hit by planes and the collapse presented as being the result of terrorist bombs. There was simply no reason to do both.
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Old 24th January 2018, 04:58 PM   #123
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Quote:
they contended that the WTC had been gutted of all contents and had been prepared for destruction by controlled demolition as buildings always are when they are demolished; by removing anything that is not required to support the structure. All plumbing and fixtures (and the water therein) are removed and recycled. The same goes for the HVAC, electrical system, elevators (including the miles of cables and hundreds of stainless-steel doors,) carpets, non-load-bearing walls and floors, etc.
I would like to see some pictures of all the trucks in the days before the attack, carting away all these items, or even one witness to say they saw this happening.... It simply couldnt be done overnight from the end of work the previous day to when people were supposed to be there the next day...

It is stupidity beyond belief to even suggest that such a scenario could be possible

(not to mention that some survivors do exist, and I am pretty sure that had they gone through the front door and been confronted with a hollow empty box, they 'might' have noticed- and possibly even mentioned it at some time since...


eta quote is from link in O.P- the comments section is good for a laugh (all 12 of them)- I am wondering if this isnt just an attempt to push traffic there tho as is seems to have a few adds and not many visitors
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Old 24th January 2018, 05:22 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yet another example of how you cannot parody the Troofers. Years ago, when I first heard about the no-planers I immediately came up with the idea of the no-buildings theory as about the craziest thing I could imagine.
I must disagree - it would be crazier if he claimed that the towers had never been built and the whole scenario was completely fictitious. The only way to make it even crazier would be to say that New York never existed.

[crazy mode] the towers never existed everyone knows that but the women in pink will kill you if you say one word about it - yes they come at you with cans of Delmonte creamed corn (16 oz) and kernel you to death[/crazy mode]
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Old 24th January 2018, 05:31 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Yet another example of how you cannot parody the Troofers. Years ago, when I first heard about the no-planers I immediately came up with the idea of the no-buildings theory as about the craziest thing I could imagine.
Given that you could imagine a "no reality" scenario and find first-year philosophy students to agree with you, this is no surprise.
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Old 24th January 2018, 06:08 PM   #126
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If the premise is that the WTC was actually empty of office workers then that might make it seem less implausible to claim that the buildings were somehow secretly rigged with demolition charges.

But there would be a large flaw in that argument.

There are many thousands of people who were supposedly employed there. If they were actually moved out so that demolition preparations could be done in secret then they're all lying about that, and so they're all in on it. But if they're all in on it, it wouldn't matter if they saw the secret preparations so there was no need to empty the building in the first place.
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Old 24th January 2018, 06:26 PM   #127
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No one can explain how these taboo truths support whatever nonsense they believe? Figgered!
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Old 24th January 2018, 06:40 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No one can explain how these taboo truths support whatever nonsense they believe? Figgered!
Sounds like you didn't actually bother to read any of the responses to your insane theory.
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Old 24th January 2018, 06:42 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
I am wondering if this isnt just an attempt to push traffic there tho as is seems to have a few adds and not many visitors
Yeah, this. ^

He keeps baiting and people keep posting, so he definitely gets his objective of keeping the thread at the top.
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Old 24th January 2018, 06:43 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No one can explain how these taboo truths support whatever nonsense they believe? Figgered!
You are literally the only person who believes these taboo "truths," and you are the only one making up nonsense.

You were never at the wtc.
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Old 24th January 2018, 07:02 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No one can explain how these taboo truths support whatever nonsense they believe? Figgered!
Huh! They are not regarded as being the truth. They don't support anything because they are nonsense. They're your Taboo Truths and you just made them up.
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Old 24th January 2018, 07:18 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You keep avoiding the evidence that leads me to my conclusions. snipped
I'm betting TBI or hallucinogenic drug use is a contributing factor because there is no evidence that supports your assertion.
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Old 24th January 2018, 07:18 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No one can explain how these taboo truths support whatever nonsense they believe? Figgered!
You lied about missiles capable of making the impact crater in PA the same as Flight 93 would. You failed to explain why all the passengers, crew, and terrorists DNA was found in the impact crater. Why do you lie, what will your grandkids think when they find your internet lies and sick claims about those who died on 9/11.

The irony of you repeating silly moronic taglines from 9/11 truth like, " like a hot knife through butter,". How is the sled test going? Have you asked a physics teacher how Flight 11 and 175 broke the shell of the WTC? No, it will ruin your fantasy.

Spreading lies and false information about 9/11 is not a legacy to be proud of.

I bet you call the mainstream media "fake news". Have you debunked Jim Fetzer yet?
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Old 24th January 2018, 07:25 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
yes they come at you with cans of Delmonte creamed corn (16 oz) and kernel you to death[/crazy mode]

Not only is it spelled "Del Monte," but they don't even have a 16 oz. can anymore. They reduced it to 14.75 ounces, effectively raising their prices 8.5%.

Now that's a conspiracy.
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Old 24th January 2018, 08:00 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No one can explain how these taboo truths support whatever nonsense they believe? Figgered!
Nonsense?

You are comic relief for the 9/11 truth movement. Claims and ideas based on complete nonsense, unlike 9/11 truth with claims based on... oops, you are the same as 9/11 truth - complete nonsense.

If we dig, we find you are the leader (a massive movement of one) of the funny 9/11 truth camp, like an off the grid Unatruther, bombing the internet with insane claims. Fighting war with lies/fake news about 9/11.

The moment of zen from the Unatruther... ("Please don't include me in FE posts, it's difficult enough to be taken seriously without it." - yankee451)

yankee451, you are exactly like FEers, no evidence to support your fake news.
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Old 24th January 2018, 08:09 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Not only is it spelled "Del Monte," but they don't even have a 16 oz. can anymore. They reduced it to 14.75 ounces, effectively raising their prices 8.5%.

Now that's a conspiracy.
...those crafty swine.....
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Old 24th January 2018, 08:41 PM   #137
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Can someone point to the evidence of concrete floors that should have been seen on every spandrel above the lobby, please?


http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg
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Old 24th January 2018, 08:52 PM   #138
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like FEers, another anti-science post of woo

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Can someone point to the evidence of concrete floors that should have been seen on every spandrel above the lobby, please?


http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg
How thick are the floors? Did you calculate the energy of the collapse due to gravity, mass and height of the material in the WTC? aka E=mgh for the towers? No

Gee whiz, you never took physics? The WTC towers collapsed, how could any floors be attached to the shell after the entire building fell through the building? Like you claim people have no idea how the WTC was built, you are one of those people who fail to understand the building and physics.

The energy of the collapse of each tower was more energy than 100 2,000 pound bombs, and this energy is why the floors were dislodged from the shell and core. Are you unable to comprehend the energy involved, are you unable to do the physics? You can't comprehend how the massive 757/767 aircraft were able to damage the WTC towers, leave and impact crater in PA, and crash through the Pentagon - thus you demonstrate you have no practical knowledge of physics and science, as you spread fake news about 9/11.

Are there physics teachers in your area to help you understand reality?
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:25 PM   #139
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I'm just asking questions.

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Old 24th January 2018, 09:30 PM   #140
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Such as, why would there be no sign of interior finishes whatsoever, but the straps are all neatly hanging on the wall? Why would the straps all be disconnected at the same place, and where are the ibeams they were once attached to?
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Old 24th January 2018, 09:55 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Such as, why would there be no sign of interior finishes whatsoever, but the straps are all neatly hanging on the wall? Why would the straps all be disconnected at the same place, and where are the ibeams they were once attached to?


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Old 24th January 2018, 09:57 PM   #142
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hahahahahahaha.... You're so funny!
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Old 24th January 2018, 10:07 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Is this you explaining why the ibeams are missing but the straps that were once bolted to them are all haning in a row on the wall, disconnected at the same place? Is this you explaining how a chaotic collapse better explains this evidence than systematic dismantling? Heh, yes, yes it is.
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Old 24th January 2018, 10:27 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Such as, why would there be no sign of interior finishes whatsoever, but the straps are all neatly hanging on the wall? Why would the straps all be disconnected at the same place, and where are the ibeams they were once attached to?
You ignore the fact the WTC collapsed, and the energy was more than 100 2,000 pound bombs due to gravity, mass and height of the towers. if you did the physics, solved the energy, E=mgh, then you would not ask idiot question exposing massive ignorance on the topic.

Oh, maybe you need the energy in joules instead of a simile of 100 2,000 pound bombs due to each tower collapse. Joules involved during the WTC collapse were great than, 4.184E+11 joules, 418,400,000,000 joules.
Got Physics? No, you make up moronic questions, and fail to give evidence for your claims, which are lie, fake news.

4.184E+11 joules, more than enough energy to obliterate 22,000 bodies. Or totally destroy all the stuff you can't figure out where it went, because you can't do physics.

4.184E+11 joules, energy equal to 254,346,504.6 shotgun blasts - can you do more than make up fake news about 9/11? You can't comprehend the energy of collapse, and why the debris looks like it is.

Is physics and science banned in your state, county. You are like flat earth cult members, unable to apply science, and understand reality.

You are exactly like 9/11 truthers, JAQs.

Thus we have more evidence, as proved by your posts, you did not looks at the video of the firefighters in the WTC prior to to the collapse, you take the easy road to spreading lies, making them up due to overwhelming ignorance of buildings, energy, physics, fire, and being too busy spreading lies to research 9/11 as an event. You pick instead to cherry pick photos, and expose your ignorance of how the collapse destroyed the buildings. Each post exposes how a shallow understanding of the facts, in a failed effort to support your lies about 9/11.

Your grandkids will see your sick claims about the murder of thousands you denied happened; they will be ashame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q0TEJp3mUk You spread lies, to mislead others. Oh noes, the lobby was not gutted, you lied. Why do you lie about 9/11 - is it due to zero research skills? Spreading lies about 9/11 will not stop wars.

You are fake news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqp22Vhq_DQ

WTC lobby, not gutted... you lied
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67oOHy2mGSQ

WTC lobby, not gutted, you lied
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgREwTFiuVU The aircraft hit so hard, they damaged the lobby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YdNclhdzSo Go ahead, ignore evidence, let your legacy on 9/11 be lies born in fantasy and ignorance.
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Old 25th January 2018, 12:01 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Can someone point to the evidence of concrete floors that should have been seen on every spandrel above the lobby, please?


http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg
So you don't know what a spandrel is either? Why am I not surprised?
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Old 25th January 2018, 02:13 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
You've previously suggested the buildings were empty of the usual contents, such as fittings, people etc.

Are you now suggesting they'd been denuded of essential structural content too?
Taking all the floors out would certainly make it easier for the explosives to initiate and propagate the collapses. In fact, taking all the floors out would have helped so much that the explosives wouldn't even have been needed. If yankee451's theory were true, the buildings would have collapsed while the nefarious deconstructionalists were still in the process of removing them.

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Old 25th January 2018, 02:59 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I'm just asking questions.

Shouldn't this be end of thread?
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Old 25th January 2018, 03:39 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Taking all the floors out would certainly make it easier for the explosives to initiate and propagate the collapses. In fact, taking all the floors out would have helped so much that the explosives wouldn't even have been needed. If yankee451's theory were true, the buildings would have collapsed while the nefarious deconstructionalists were still in the process of removing them.

Dave
Yes, though it's slightly interesting to look into the extreme CTist mindset, or lack of one. If yankee451's idea made a grain of structural sense we'd still have to ask how the floors were removed, one by one, and the debris removed? Or were they cut into neat chunks and stacked up in the lobby - the pieces being lowered by internal cranes - with the removal of floors creating more space for stacking? Or cut into really small chunks and carried out the door?

It sounds like a really noisy and dusty job. Perhaps the entire area wasn't really occupied, so nobody was there to notice?

(Yes, I'm bored today. Have to hang around to keep an eye on the builders who are trashing our front yard good and proper)
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:13 AM   #149
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Steve... You are in way over your head... You have no understanding of how the towers were built, the engineering issues... and basic physics. Because you are so uninformed you don't know how to interpret or understand what you see. So you essentially make things up that makes sense to your very challenged understanding of engineering, structure and physics. Of course you have questions.. you are like a child with questions... they are uneducated and so are you.

Those straps are the straps diagonal bracing of the bottom chord of the floor trusses. They have nothing to do with beams. These straps failed at their weakest point which was the connection to the truss, not to the column face when the floor collapse ripped them off.

You should be embarrassed by your ignorance not emboldened to make up fanciful theories with no basis in reality.

It's a waste of time to have informed intelligent discussions with you until you get some technical education.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:14 AM   #150
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Yeah... there is no feasible way to keep the office workers away, remove the floors, keep everyone involved silent, and keep random passers by from seeing the removal of debris, without all of Manhattan, all construction companies involved, and every freaking tourist being in on a vast conspiracy, and managing to keep everyone silent for 17 years.
But hey, OP's got a picture from after the crash, and there's no intact floors in the collapsed buildings anymore...
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:17 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Can someone point to the evidence of concrete floors that should have been seen on every spandrel above the lobby, please?


http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-windows-1.jpg
Utterly irrelevant, unless you can explain how the towers were empty without anyone noticing.
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Old 25th January 2018, 04:39 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Nonsense?

You are comic relief for the 9/11 truth movement. Claims and ideas based on complete nonsense, unlike 9/11 truth with claims based on... oops, you are the same as 9/11 truth - complete nonsense.
The funny thing is, truthers can see through the insanity of yankee451's claims, yet they can't compare it to how debunkers can see through the insanity of their own claims. Food for thought for them, if they're willing to be honest to themselves. Which is a good reason why they won't give it any.
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Old 25th January 2018, 05:08 AM   #153
Mark F
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Taking all the floors out would certainly make it easier for the explosives to initiate and propagate the collapses. In fact, taking all the floors out would have helped so much that the explosives wouldn't even have been needed. If yankee451's theory were true, the buildings would have collapsed while the nefarious deconstructionalists were still in the process of removing them.

Dave
Exactly!

Since the floor truss system was a critical structural element tying together the core and perimeter columns, no way either tower was staying up without the floors.

Not to mention the rather obvious logistical problems of removal. How many thousands of dump trucks would that take?
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Old 25th January 2018, 06:17 AM   #154
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You keep avoiding the evidence that leads me to my conclusions. If you were to explain why the straps are not missing for the lobby, but are missing for every level above the lobby, I might respond.
Because the floors of the lobbies were structurally reinforced requiring more energy thous allowing the ceiling to absorb more energy though distortion instead of breakage.

Only physics infact there was some slowing of the collapse at each reinforced section however it is so little it was virtually meaningless.
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Old 25th January 2018, 06:48 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
Exactly!

Since the floor truss system was a critical structural element tying together the core and perimeter columns, no way either tower was staying up without the floors.

Not to mention the rather obvious logistical problems of removal. How many thousands of dump trucks would that take?
Not true... the core could have stood without the perimeter columns or the OOS flooring.
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Old 25th January 2018, 06:55 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
So you don't know what a spandrel is either? Why am I not surprised?
Maybe, like me, he was brought up with classical architecture. Spandrel.
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Old 25th January 2018, 06:56 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I'm just asking questions.



Well, I for one think you're asking the wrong questions.


You shouldn't be asking why no one knew the WTC was unoccupied prior to 9/11. What you should be asking is , which other "occupied" buildings are currently standing empty, to be used in the next 9/11 style attack?

I mean, the only evidence I have that the new WTC is "occupied" are Facebook posts by that notorious shill Gravy, who "claims" to "work" there as a "tour guide". As if!

Quick, make a trip to every major metropolitan city in the US, and document which famous buildings are actually complete fakes! You could stop the next 9/11 in its tracks, and be a hero! Just be sure to tell everyone what you're doing, so they'll truly appreciate the nature of your heroism.
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Old 25th January 2018, 07:04 AM   #158
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I bet you this goes on for 100 pages. I've seen no-planers argue endlessly with Tracey Postart and that other guy about how there were no planes. Paranoid schizophrenics have a way of producing endless amounts of type about things that are clearly so crazy even most crazy people can't accept them. I guess they have to have a place to go but pretty much the only thing that is more disturbed than this version of "no-planerism" is gang stalking.

Yankee451 are there people following you? Do agents want to know more about how it is only you who have the truth?
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Old 25th January 2018, 07:17 AM   #159
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
I bet you this goes on for 100 pages. I've seen no-planers argue endlessly with Tracey Postart and that other guy about how there were no planes. Paranoid schizophrenics have a way of producing endless amounts of type about things that are clearly so crazy even most crazy people can't accept them. I guess they have to have a place to go but pretty much the only thing that is more disturbed than this version of "no-planerism" is gang stalking.

Yankee451 are there people following you? Do agents want to know more about how it is only you who have the truth?
we already have,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ighlight=truss

Same old thing, a guy who was never at the WTC claims there were no floors in the WTC and even truthers are like "whaaaa?"
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Old 25th January 2018, 07:41 AM   #160
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I know I'll never get an answer to this, but why would a government evil enough to attack two of their own cities as justification for a war under false pretenses feel the need to set up an elaborate conspiracy to evacuate en relocate thousands of people and keep them silent? It'd increase their chances of getting caught, and since they want to start a war and are fine with millions of people dying, why would they care so much about a couple of thousand more or less? And if they really did want to spare their own citizens, then why not come up with a different false flag operation that does not require months of easily detectable construction work in the nation's busiest city?
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