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Old 27th April 2006, 04:45 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by manny View Post
For my part, I was barely a Kato to Gravy's Green Lantern.
Uhh... Green Hornet. Unless Kato was doing some moonlighting.

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin
Thee cheers for Gravy and manny!
Hip hip, hooray!!
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Old 27th April 2006, 04:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
Interesting that you noticed two distinct sub-species of 9/11 CT'ers, loosers and truthers. From what I've seen, truthers have been around longer -- we had a flurry of truther activity up here in VT last year. The local newspaper (which is infamous for shamelessly pandering to its liberal, hippie, and woo consituency) gave them a fair amount of airplay, until I wrote in and pointed out that this in fact played straight into the hands of Republicans, by providing them with a ridiculously easy target that they could associate with Democrats and make us all look stupid and paranoid. Coincidence or not, the paper immediately stopped publishing their letters. I think the basic motivator fueling truthers is utter loathing of America. It seems that as far as they're concerned, this country is responsible for all the evil in the world. Thus, if something bad happens to America, there can only be one explanation: we must have done this to ourselves.

Loosers, on the other hand, are a far more recent phenomenon. I think their basic motivation is the inability to distinguish movies like The Matrix from reality.
You're exactly right. Neither one of them are objective. A good skeptic should remain unaffiliated with any group or party. An investigation shouldn't be colored by preconceptions and propaganda. I've been sincerely willing to listen to what they are saying, I too want to know the truth, but so far I've only heard propaganda and paranoia. People like Michael Moore who use the word «truth» for their own political agenda really make me sick. The Truth, if it exists as such, is kind of an utopia isn't it? With 6 billion people on earth, there could be 6 billion truths. My guess the real truth, the one outside our human perspective, is ultimately unreachable. We only have ourselves to rely on. That's a frightful thought.
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Old 27th April 2006, 05:38 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by manny :
For my part, I was barely a Kato to Gravy's Green Lantern.
Originally Posted by RSLancastr View Post
Uhh... Green Hornet. Unless Kato was doing some moonlighting.

Hip hip, hooray!!
Or did you mean a Kato to Gravy's OJ Simpson?

In any case, a big thank you to both of you guys. Sounds like you did it exactly right - no engaging of them directly, and no big spectacle.
If I could email you a beer, I would!
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Old 27th April 2006, 05:40 PM   #44
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His blog indicates he's going to be in the Princeton area tonight. Anyone in the area?
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Old 27th April 2006, 05:59 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
A good skeptic should remain unaffiliated with any group or party.
Uh-oh, I'm affiliated with the JREF.
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Old 27th April 2006, 07:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
A good skeptic should remain unaffiliated with any group or party.
I'm a member of an environmental organization. I like to think I bring rationality to a group (environmentalists in general) that has been known to react emotionally without all the facts in the past. I've[1] pretty much got them trained to do some research before taking action on a claimed problem.


[1] Okay, not me alone. I do have some help. But I'm usually the one asking "and how do we know this?".
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Old 28th April 2006, 10:59 AM   #47
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Sorry to chime in really late, but well done Gravy, Manny, and any other behind the scenes contributors. Its reassuring to know there are folks who would go to great lengths to protect the truth, even when that truth isn't particularly pleasant, exciting or financially rewarding.
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Old 28th April 2006, 11:18 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
A good skeptic should remain unaffiliated with any group or party.
And how else would I get so stand up at an SNP conference and tell them that the party line on organic agriculture is irrational and anti-science?

Rolfe.
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Old 28th April 2006, 04:55 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Hey all. Sorry I've been away.
Didn't you hear that I got shot today?

Well the opening of "United 93" certainly wasn't exciting, but I'm really glad we went. It was the right thing to do. Manny did yeoman's work, and because of him we were able to get our info to just about everyone who got stuff from the "Truthsters." There were about 15 of them total, a few Loose Changers and about 10 "911Truth.org" people. What's the difference? The Loosers pretty much stick to the details of the day of 9/11 itself, while the Truthers talk more about who should be held accountable for it all..more of a political stance. The Loosers were basically raving mad, while the truthers tended to be older and more subdued. The truthers use all the same tired arguments, though: controlled demolition, flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, hijackers still alive, air defenses stood down, etc. Nothing new. I'll scan their pamphlet and post it.

So, I was disappointed at how lame they all were. I don't know why, but I expected to hear SOME kind of intelligent argument from SOMEONE. They just aren't bright people. But I will be attending the "9/11 Truth Summit" this weekend.

The protesters were limited by the police to a very small area. They shouted "9/11 was a lie" at passing cars and showed screenshots of webpages to confused passersby. They had a big banner that said "End the media blackout!" Meanwhile, the media crawled all over them once the movie started and there was no more red carpet scene.

Manny and I handed out flyers that included lots of hideous quotes from the Loosers. One guy said to me, "I'd call them scum but I have no desire to insult scum that way." What really pissed the Loosers off was that I gave a CD with my "Loose Change" refutation on it (a Word file) to everyone who got a DVD from them. They were flipping mad, especially since they had no idea who I was or why I wouldn't talk to them or what was on the CD.

I've been trying to uplaod that file, as a PDF, to torrent sites, but without luck. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I guess I'll put it on one of those cheesy free file hosting sites with the pop-up ads, unless someone's got a brighter idea. It's 4.5 megs, down from a 27 meg Word file.

The other weird thing about that file is that even with a current version of Acrobat, I could only save either the page breaks or the web links, but not both. So either it doesn't look good or it doesn't work good (and I'm not about to manually add a hundred links to the PDF).There are solutions to that for PC, but I'm using a Mac.

Well, i'm glad we didn't have 30 people out there on Tuesday. That would have drawn unnecessary attention. We could have used one or two more to be sure we had all the bases covered. I'll give more warning next time!
-G

Oh, where did people see Avery's comment about me? Is that on the LC site? I would LOVE to know what he thinks of the rest of that slamfest.
Gravy, I'm so proud of you it hurts.
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Old 28th April 2006, 05:11 PM   #50
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Awesome work Gravy! You're an example to us all! If you need any spare socks, let me know. BTW, they don't match...
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Old 28th April 2006, 11:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
And how else would I get so stand up at an SNP conference and tell them that the party line on organic agriculture is irrational and anti-science?

Rolfe.
You're right. I guess my statement wasn't very accurate, I didn't articulate my idea very well. Being part of an organisation isn't a bad thing, I apologize if it appeared that way. But a critical thinker should remain at all times unaffiliated in his mind, and free of any pressure from a group. I consider myself very sympathetic to a political party in my province, but I'm uneasy to become a full fledge militant because I like to remain free to appreciate a good idea wherever it comes from, and to be able to question and criticise bad ones from my own party. But usually good organisations allow it's members to question it's policies. But whenever humans affiliate themselves, politics somehow always come into play. Then again, if humans never affiliated themselves, nothing would ever get done LOL!
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Old 28th April 2006, 11:21 PM   #52
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Gravy, you're my *********** hero.
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Old 28th April 2006, 11:27 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Shrinker View Post
Sorry to chime in really late, but well done Gravy, Manny, and any other behind the scenes contributors. Its reassuring to know there are folks who would go to great lengths to protect the truth, even when that truth isn't particularly pleasant, exciting or financially rewarding.
Very well said, and seconded wholeheartedly.

Gravy, if there were a Forum Member of the Month Award, you'd get my nomination and vote.
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Old 29th April 2006, 02:37 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by orphia nay View Post
Very well said, and seconded wholeheartedly.

Gravy, if there were a Forum Member of the Month Award, you'd get my nomination and vote.
Thanks, but in lieu of that, Manny and I accept beer.
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Old 30th April 2006, 07:12 PM   #55
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kickass gravy!
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Old 1st May 2006, 07:44 PM   #56
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gravy your in nz? making any trips to aus soon? I'd love to buy you a beer. In fact, stuff that, ill get us both a bottle of JD.
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