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Tags part 2 , loose change , 911 conspiracy theory

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Old 25th May 2006, 10:03 AM   #121
chucksheen
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Any serious debaters should join the LooseChange911.com forums. Videos speak many words and there are WAY too many posts here for me to read and carry on with my business.

2 quick must see videos:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4837634583766795751
BetterBadNews.com
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:05 AM   #122
chipmunk stew
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CurtC demonstrates that they can't even get their "smoking gun" right.

Even after watching WTC7 collapse "about a million times", Roxdog missed the fact that the east penthouse collapsed about five seconds before the rest of the building started to collapse:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...post&p=4750036
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:07 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Manny View Post
Below is a picture of one of the conspirators cutting the steel into those convenient sections. He's obviously a slacker, as he has waited until after the buildings collapsed to do his job.
This one made me chuckle. You can't trust those union guys.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:09 AM   #124
chipmunk stew
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Originally Posted by chucksheen View Post
Any serious debaters should join the LooseChange911.com forums. Videos speak many words and there are WAY too many posts here for me to read and carry on with my business.
Perhaps you can put a good word in for those of us who have been suspended:
Arkan_Wolfshade: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...56#post1660156
dubfan: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...69#post1660169
"stipmunk chew": http://www.internationalskeptics.com...83#post1660383
Abbyas: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post1660943
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:10 AM   #125
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin
Dear Conspiracy Theorist:

You are 100% wrong.

Love,

RK
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Rk, this seems to be a damn poor way to welcome a new poster. Sure, he may have proven himself a nutter elsewhere, but I have not been "elsewhere" so have no preconceived notion; I suspect the same is true for most others on this forum. If he is "100% wrong" welcome him with open arms and let the facts fall where they may. Let the EVIDENCE prove him "100% wrong". Your "welcome" is anything but. Sure we're skeptics but let the sketicism work, not your harsh prejudgement.
SezMe, perhaps you have not followed this thread and its peripherals as I have, and in addition conversed with numerous CTers, each of whom displays ignorance coupled with arrogance as if it were a bright shiny badge. You may also have also missed the set-up to my little note above, which might've helped you understand.

Still, I accept your criticism. Thanks.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:11 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by chucksheen View Post
Any serious debaters should join the LooseChange911.com forums. Videos speak many words and there are WAY too many posts here for me to read and carry on with my business.
This one made me chuckle too. How can you have a serious debate when disagreeing with forum members gets you banned?
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:13 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by sophia8 View Post
Oh, leave him alone! He's only little - go pick on somebody your own size...

Anyway, welcome Chuck. In response to your challenge, how about you reading through every single post on this thread, then giving us your opinion?
No way that's going to happen... after all, Xraye is obviously still working on it...

edit- oops I see he already owned up to it ten posts ago!
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:14 AM   #128
chipmunk stew
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Originally Posted by chucksheen View Post
Any serious debaters should join the LooseChange911.com forums. Videos speak many words and there are WAY too many posts here for me to read and carry on with my business.
If you want serious debaters over there, talk to jackchit:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post1660943

Originally Posted by jackchit at LC forum
Time to clean up.... and get rid of the smell.
I hold my hands up I'm the one who suspended the accounts as i could feel the frustration and anger towards the cretious thinkers from my friends on the board.
But hey you guys still have the jref forum to post your views and i'm sure if anyone is interested enough and has been swayed by the posts made here by the jref'ers they will be welcomed over there with open arms..

good luck guys, Jack
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:15 AM   #129
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Quote:
Perhaps you can put a good word in for those of us who have been suspended:
Arkan_Wolfshade: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...56#post1660156
dubfan: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...69#post1660169
"stipmunk chew": http://www.internationalskeptics.com...83#post1660383
Abbyas: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post1660943
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:17 AM   #130
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Any serious debaters should join the LooseChange911.com forums. Videos speak many words and there are WAY too many posts here for me to read and carry on with my business.
Or feel free to start a new topic. Maybe one with a specific point that can be discussed.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:20 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by chucksheen View Post
Any serious debaters should join the LooseChange911.com forums. Videos speak many words and there are WAY too many posts here for me to read and carry on with my business.

2 quick must see videos:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4837634583766795751
BetterBadNews.com
No, videos do not "speak many words." The eyes are often unreliable. (For examples of this, try clicking here.)

Sir, this is a forum dedicated to critical thinking. While this particular thread may be of epic length, it contains countless answers to your questions. Should you actually be interested in considered analysis of this topic, it would seem a relatively small task to read it though, a bit at a time. You will likely be enlightened.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:20 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
Or feel free to start a new topic. Maybe one with a specific point that can be discussed.
Indeed, the more narrow the topic of discussion the better. I would, hestitatingly, suggest that perhaps it should be in the Politics forum.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:22 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
How can I figure out why I was suspended? Or should I just not care.
Check chipmunk's post right before yours.

Apparantly, you were all suspended because "it was upsetting to the Loosers" to have to actually present valid evidence and use logic.

When their points were proven wrong, and you didn't respond to their arguments of "Is too!", they banned you, so they could continue with "open" debate.

OW!!!

Sorry, I think I just sprained by brain trying to do the mental gymnastics that Loosers do.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:24 AM   #134
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A few things to consider that might help out, as well. I admit this is overly simplified, others can flesh it out / correct mistakes as needed.

Remember those "Newton's Cradel" desktop toys? the 5 metal balls suspended In a line, and when you pull one away, and let it go, it hit's the line and the ball on the opposite end gets sent away? (and note that it takes practicly NO time for that transfer of energy to take place) That's your conservation of momentum at work. If you pull two of the five balls back, and release them, two go flying off from the other side.

Now, the tricky part - Pull back 3 balls. Since you have to conserve the momentum, when they collide with the other two, those two balls plus 1 of the three that were pulled back continue on. The mass has to be equal for the momentum to be conserved.

What does this have to do with WTC? Well, as the floors above the crash site drop, they have momentum. They impart that momentum onto the floors they crash into, so what you have isn't so much a collapse but a pile-driver breaking the floors below. You have "X" number of floors hitting one floor, some of the energy is lost breaking stuff, and the ball at the end of the line (in this case, the floor at the top of the Stack) loses it's momentum, but the rest of the mass keeps moving, it doesn't "Stop at each floor" like we've seen on some posts.

You don't see the top of the stack flying off at each floor because it's still effected by gravity, and still somewhat connected to the rest of the stack. So continues to be dragged down with the rest of the pile.

Now, your thinking, "wait a minute..It doesn't hit one floor, it hits the entire remaining mass of the tower". Well...yes and no.

Ever see a martial arts demonstration where they break many boards at once? Notice that they don't just stack the boards on top of each other, they have small "Spacers", maybe half an inch thick, between the boards? That's so you don't have to break the strength of all 10 boards (or however many), you just need the force to break 1 board 10 times. Some momentum is lost at each board, but the martial artist is still using his muscles to Compensate.

The WTC Towers are like that - each floor is a board, and are connected to the outside walls, the central colum, and various interior walls and such that act as the spacers do, making it easier for the X-number-of-stories mass to break through each floor. Now instead of trying to break the entire 70-some odd floors remaining, it only needs to do it one floor at a time. While a mathmatical amount of momentum is lost in each colision, Gravity was still accelerating the mass. Also, with the exception of what is ejected from the collision, each floor colided with adds its mass to the force comming down. even if it's pulverized, it still has mass, wich adds to the force applied on the floor below it.


Hope that makes sense, any corrections that need to be made, let me know. like I said, it's somewhat (allright, a lot) simplified. But the idea should be pretty clear.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:26 AM   #135
chipmunk stew
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Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
Check chipmunk's post right before yours.

Apparantly, you were all suspended because "it was upsetting to the Loosers" to have to actually present valid evidence and use logic.

When their points were proven wrong, and you didn't respond to their arguments of "Is too!", they banned you, so they could continue with "open" debate.

OW!!!

Sorry, I think I just sprained by brain trying to do the mental gymnastics that Loosers do.
It looks like they're starting to weed out the Skeptics subforum so that eventually they'll only be left with token skeptics who are easier to beat up on.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:27 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
If you want serious debaters over there, talk to jackchit:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...43#post1660943
Wow. Sniveling intellectual cowardice at its most loathsome best. Have fun building your little fortress of fortitude, Loosers.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:27 AM   #137
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Quote:
Apparantly, you were all suspended because "it was upsetting to the Loosers" to have to actually present valid evidence and use logic.
I guess it's not surprising. Some (not all) of those who question the government detest it when they, themselves are questioned.

Also, considering all the times I was called "b-tch", "bloodthirsty racist", "shill", "pathetic", etc, etc by those who believe, I can completely understand their needing to be protected from me.

It's exciting, I've never been suspended from a forum before! I have decided to blame the Illuminati.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:31 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Pet Peeve Rant Mode On


Known country
Australia 3
Bermuda 1
Britain 1
Canada 5
China 2
Dominican Republic 1
El Salvador 1
England 11
Germany 6
Israel 1
Japan 3
Mexico 10
USA 2902

Known foreign citizenship
Australian 1
Belgian 1
Brazilian 3
British 67
Chinese 2
Colombian 17
Congonese 2
Ecuadorian 3
Filipino 15
French 1
German 5
Ghanaian 2
Guyanese 3
Haitian 2
Honduran 1
Indian 1
Indonesian1
Irish 1
Israeli 2
Italian 4
Ivory Coast 1
Jamaican 16
Japanese 23
Lebanese 3
Lithuania 1
Mexican 15
Moldavian 1
Nigerian 1
Peruvian 5
Portuguese 3
Russian 1
Swedish 1
Taiwanese 1
Ukrainian 1
Uzbek 1
Venezuelan 1

from http://www.september11victims.com/se...ITIZENSHIP.htm

9/11 affected the world, not just the US. And this brings up an additional gripe of mine. Why would it be, if the evidence points to this being a US gov't operation that _all_ of the above countries are not asking for Bush's head?
Your list is off by about 20 canadians: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/se...asualties.html

But you make an excellent point. Knocking over the two biggest office buildings in the financial district of the financial capital of the worlds strongest economy will kill people from all over the world. Osama Bin Laden, for all his moral failings, is not a stupid person. He undoubtedly knew this and just didn't care. This war is for all of us, american or not.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:31 AM   #139
chipmunk stew
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Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
I guess it's not surprising. Some (not all) of those who question the government detest it when they, themselves are questioned.

Also, considering all the times I was called "b-tch", "bloodthirsty racist", "shill", "pathetic", etc, etc by those who believe, I can completely understand their needing to be protected from me.

It's exciting, I've never been suspended from a forum before! I have decided to blame the Illuminati.
Wow! "Bloodthirsty racist"? I'm jealous. Do you have a link to that thread?
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:32 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
IIt's exciting, I've never been suspended from a forum before! I have decided to blame the Illuminati.
Hey, don't blame us! We had nothing to do with this one!!

Um, that is, if we existed we wwouldn't have had anything to...Um..

I mean, ah...if the Illuminati existed, they, ah, would have had nothing to do with this.

Yeah, that's it.

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Old 25th May 2006, 10:32 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
It's exciting, I've never been suspended from a forum before! I have decided to blame the Illuminati.
Hey! We had nothing to do with it!

ETA: Dang, too slow!
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:33 AM   #142
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The writing is on the wall. The cat is out of the bag.

If you can prove the pancake theory, Jimmy Walters will reward you with $1,000,000. ReOpen911.org.

UniversalSeed.org, for all your truth needs.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:34 AM   #143
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Uh-oh! Double Illuminati claim posts!
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:34 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
Hey, don't blame us! We had nothing to do with this one!!

Um, that is, if we existed we wwouldn't have had anything to...Um..

I mean, ah...if the Illuminati existed, they, ah, would have had nothing to do with this.

Yeah, that's it.

I've never seen you at the meetings!

Not that there ARE meetings....
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:36 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
I've never seen you at the meetings!

Not that there ARE meetings....
Wait, are you Illuminati People's Front? Or the People's Illuminati Front? Or the People's Front of Illuminati?

Please don't tell me you're part of that wussy Front of Illuminati Peoples!!!!
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:37 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by chucksheen View Post
The writing is on the wall. The cat is out of the bag.
The pontoon is one the river..yadda.yadda.yadda.

Quote:
If you can prove the pancake theory, Jimmy Walters will reward you with $1,000,000. ReOpen911.org.
No thanks. Like Ken Hovind's bogus 'challenge' I consider proving things to deliberately ignorant people with absurd standards to be a waste of time.

Quote:
UniversalSeed.org, for all your truth needs.
Why are there so many lies on your source for truth?
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:40 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
Wait, are you Illuminati People's Front? Or the People's Illuminati Front? Or the People's Front of Illuminati?

Please don't tell me you're part of that wussy Front of Illuminati Peoples!!!!
The Illuminati Frontispiece. It's a splinter group.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:46 AM   #148
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Smile Thanks for the note

Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Welcome, Kiwiwriter. Your insights are very much appreciated here.
Happy to help out. As I say, after 25 years in journalism, growing up in a science-minded household, I have little tolerance for frauds, quacks, demented ideoogues, conspiracy theorists, and con men.

Most of my work in this field (which isn't much) actually deals with Holocaust deniers and their ilk, who share many of the character traits of the 9/11 whackos, down to the conspiracy theory claims...Holocaust deniers create a topsy-turvy world where a vast and unseen Jewish conspiracy has fabricated a Holocaust myth for various nefarious purposes, 9/11 nuts do the same thing with the attacks on America.

Both seem to be fueled heavily by anti-Semitism, as far as I can tell. It's interesting to see how web pages like iamthewitness.com, which is full of vicious anti-Semitic material, or Stormfront, blast the Jews and the events of 9/11. The general theory is that the Jews are behind it all.

I wrote a column about the "mythical Jewish conspiracy" at my web page at http://davidhlippman.wildbillguarnere.com which goes into this in more detail.

I sure wish there was one...it would make my life easier, as I wrote on the page.

Three questions for the veterans around here: how does the ranking system work, second, when can I put in a signature block and an avatar?

Third, my other favorite paranormal lunacies are psychic "predictions" and the Bermuda Triangle. I haven't heard much about the latter lately. Is there a thread about it on this site?
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:46 AM   #149
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Wow! "Bloodthirsty racist"? I'm jealous. Do you have a link to that thread?
Would show you if I could, but I can't even read the thing. If I try, I get the suspended error message. But it was along the lines of Jennabel asking me to let go of my hate. Kind of a reverse Emperor Palpatine.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:47 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Nice post, man. Welcome.
Thanks for that welcome. Interesting bunch of folks here. It's actually quite refreshing.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:51 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Abbyas View Post
Would show you if I could, but I can't even read the thing. If I try, I get the suspended error message. But it was along the lines of Jennabel asking me to let go of my hate. Kind of a reverse Emperor Palpatine.
Delete the cookie from invisionfree.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:51 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Loose change forum rectify. Milliplentyfy skeptic thoughtcrime. Rectify. Skeptic unperson. Minitrue forum plusgood Goodthink. Dylan Avery doubleplusgood!
Wow! You got it exactly! Winston Smith would be proud.

Unfortunately, you will have to visit Room 101. I hope they believe me when I tell them that my greatest fear involves having a bunch of my favorite actresses and me in a ritzy hotel room.

A more serious note on "1984," for anyone who doesn't know...when Eric Blair Jr. wrote that on a Scottish island, he was very sick with the TB that ultimately killed him. He said as he was finishing the book that if he hadn't been so sick, it might not have been so bleak.

There is also a clue that "Oceania" ultimately falls. Note the essay at the end about "Newspeak." It's written in the past tense, as if "Newspeak" is an old and dead language, being reviewed by a scholar of the future. Interesting.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:53 AM   #153
Kiwiwriter
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Smile WTC debris and remains

Originally Posted by Huntsman View Post
Also, present your evidence that it "fell within it's own footprint", especially since your earlier statements contended that pieces of steel were thrown "hundreds of yards from the building". Also in light of the fact that buildings over a huge area were damaged by the fall, and photos of the aftermath clearly show debris shtrewn for a wide area outside the footprint.
A very wide area...they were finding bits of WTC debris and paper on Brooklyn's Ocean Parkway. I remember someone finding a waybill from Bank of New Zealand lying on that road. It stood out in my mind because that's my bank back in New Zealand.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:54 AM   #154
chipmunk stew
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Originally Posted by Kiwiwriter View Post
Most of my work in this field (which isn't much) actually deals with Holocaust deniers and their ilk, who share many of the character traits of the 9/11 whackos, down to the conspiracy theory claims...Holocaust deniers create a topsy-turvy world where a vast and unseen Jewish conspiracy has fabricated a Holocaust myth for various nefarious purposes, 9/11 nuts do the same thing with the attacks on America.
And in some cases they're the same person.

See: Eric Hufschmid (and roll in moon-hoaxer while you're at it)

Welcome to the forums, Kiwiwriter.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:55 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Delete the cookie from invisionfree.
I think the cookie's actually called "Loose_Change_Forum".
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:57 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by chipmunk stew View Post
I think the cookie's actually called "Loose_Change_Forum".
Ah, the plugin I use with Firefox shows the domain info, not cookie name. My bad.
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Old 25th May 2006, 10:58 AM   #157
kalen
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
The Illuminati Frontispiece. It's a splinter group.
SPLITTERS!!
__________________
No way! Yahweh!
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:00 AM   #158
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Welcome Kiwiwriter

Originally Posted by Kiwiwriter View Post
What amuses and frightens me at the same time about these conspiracy theories is that they all seem to wind down to the same basic idea, in the end: rehashing the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." In the end, they all blame the same target: Satan's tools, the evil Jews.
I really don't understand why this particular ethnic group/religion is always the target for such accusations, throughout history. Good thing you have kept your sense of humour about it!


Welcome Mutton-Head

Originally Posted by Mutton-Head View Post
Our first is task to determine: “What happened?” It’s not yet our job to determine “Who did it?” or “How many were involved?” or “How much did they spend?” or “Why did they do it?” These questions would be premature at this point.
Originally Posted by Mutton-Head View Post
The next step then, would be to find out where this extra force came from. Explosives are the only plausible explanation that I can come up with. This also would solve the problem that the building collapsed symmetrically in its own foot-print. This has NEVER happened spontaneously, from a fire, or earthquake, or hurricane, or plane crash. But we have seen it occur hundreds of times from controlled demolitions. (Explosives inside the building at predetermined locations, exploded in a predetermined sequence.)
Aren't you jumping to conclusions here? Are "explosions" really the only possible conclusion to all your physics and "maths"?

This "second step", as you call it, inevitably leads to the third step, wich is to ask ourselves who on earth could possibly have planted these explosives, when and why and how? All these questions to me are completely absurd.

I'm in no way a physicist, or even a scientist, so you can take my opinion for what it's worth, but wouldn't the "pancaking effect" cause an increase of energy, adding more wheight and force as every floor collapse onto the next?

Last edited by Pardalis; 25th May 2006 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:01 AM   #159
Arkan_Wolfshade
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Originally Posted by kalen View Post
SPLITTERS!!
Wait... was that the Peoples' Front of Judea, or the Judean Peoples' Front?
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:02 AM   #160
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[quote=Mutton-Head;1661105]I ran across this site, and had to comment

Forget for a moment the “conspiracy theory.” I always like to take it a step at a time. Let’s pretend we’re on CSI. (I think I’ve seen one episode.) Our first is task to determine: “What happened?” It’s not yet our job to determine “Who did it?” or “How many were involved?” or “How much did they spend?” or “Why did they do it?” These questions would be premature at this point.


When an object falls to earth.......blah blah....saving space
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This thread would not exist if we used the CSI method. It exists because loose change starts with "who did it?" and "why". Then goes to find reasons "how".

You are not adding the additional floors to your equation. If anything, it should accelerate as it goes down. More mass=more force to the rest of tower as it falls. I laugh when I see the picture of the towers with the arrows and caption saying "this has to smash this in this many seconds." That's like 3rd grade thinking.

The building was designed NOT to fall over even when one side loses support!!!!! It could only fall into itself!!!! Think there is an engineer report on NOVA that was earlier in thread that discussed it. Wasn't a bias piece on 911, but actually went in to the design of it. Sorry no time to look, maybe someone can link it. The thing was buillt like a vertical suspension bridge that also helped with its speed in falling.

A train derailed 15 houses down from me. I found a piece of metal in my yard. The train wasn't the tallest in the world. So what? Stuff crashing=stuff flying all over the place.

hmm....quote went very wrong

Last edited by Tailgater; 25th May 2006 at 11:27 AM.
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