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Tags donald trump , Ilhan Omar , immigration issues , racism incidents , racism issues , Trump controversies

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Old 8th August 2019, 12:18 PM   #1201
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I'm getting conflicting answers:



And now you're saying it's not simple.
There is no conflict in any of Cabbage's quotes. Did you quote the wrong person?
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Old 8th August 2019, 12:22 PM   #1202
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
There is no conflict in any of Cabbage's quotes. Did you quote the wrong person?
There's a conflict between Cabbage's position and Craig4's. Did you not notice?
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Old 8th August 2019, 03:48 PM   #1203
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There's a conflict between Cabbage's position and Craig4's. Did you not notice?
Different people have different positions. Ever consider just thinking for yourself instead?
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Old 8th August 2019, 05:25 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There's a conflict between Cabbage's position and Craig4's. Did you not notice?
That's probably because we're not the same person.
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Old 8th August 2019, 05:35 PM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There's a conflict between Cabbage's position and Craig4's. Did you not notice?
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Different people have different positions. Ever consider just thinking for yourself instead?
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
That's probably because we're not the same person.
You guys just donít get it. You are seen as Libruls so you have to be in lockstep on every opinion. You know, itís like how those other guys who have to defend every single thing Trump does, regardless of how racist, unethical, or illegal his activities are. So get with the program. Read and memorize the latest manual. Be sure to read all previous Librul posts to ensure that there is no conflict. Itís so easy to confuse Trump supporters if they have to deal with more than a single perspective.
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Old 8th August 2019, 05:42 PM   #1206
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
You guys just donít get it. You are seen as Libruls so you have to be in lockstep on every opinion. You know, itís like how those other guys who have to defend every single thing Trump does, regardless of how racist, unethical, or illegal his activities are. So get with the program. Read and memorize the latest manual. Be sure to read all previous Librul posts to ensure that there is no conflict. Itís so easy to confuse Trump supporters if they have to deal with more than a single perspective.
For the record, I voted for both Bob Packwood (before I knew about the sexual assault thing) and Mark Hatfield. I'm not liberal, I'm anti-stupid and anti-treason.
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Old 8th August 2019, 05:51 PM   #1207
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
For the record, I voted for both Bob Packwood (before I knew about the sexual assault thing) and Mark Hatfield. I'm not liberal, I'm anti-stupid and anti-treason.
I apologize. I should not have assumed your political views.

I was looking at it from Zigguratís perspective where, it seems, any opinions appearing to him to be to the left of his are automatically liberal.
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Old 8th August 2019, 08:07 PM   #1208
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
For the record, I voted for both Bob Packwood (before I knew about the sexual assault thing) and Mark Hatfield. I'm not liberal, I'm anti-stupid and anti-treason.
And I voted for Dan Evan's. I'd happily vote for that sort of Republican today, but you can't.
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Old 8th August 2019, 09:58 PM   #1209
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And I voted for Dan Evan's. I'd happily vote for that sort of Republican today, but you can't.
Dan Evan's what?

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Old 8th August 2019, 10:53 PM   #1210
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I apologize. I should not have assumed your political views.

I was looking at it from Zigguratís perspective where, it seems, any opinions appearing to him to be to the left of his are automatically liberal.
It's okay. I guess it's what we've come to as a nation. If simple loyalty to the nation is a liberal value, I don't mind being called a liberal. It's odd the disloyalty and treason are suddenly conservative values.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:32 AM   #1211
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's okay. I guess it's what we've come to as a nation. If simple loyalty to the nation is a liberal value, I don't mind being called a liberal. It's odd the disloyalty and treason are suddenly conservative values.
IMO, most conservatives are actually liberals: Conservatism is a viewpoint or attitude, not really a distinct political philosophy. The conflict these days isn't really conservative versus liberal; it's progressive versus reactionary, and when one side defines itself by simply being opposed to everything the other side wants to do, it's hard to find compromises.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:43 AM   #1212
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
IMO, most conservatives are actually liberals: Conservatism is a viewpoint or attitude, not really a distinct political philosophy. The conflict these days isn't really conservative versus liberal; it's progressive versus reactionary, and when one side defines itself by simply being opposed to everything the other side wants to do, it's hard to find compromises.
Maybe I've misunderstood or maybe it's a fundamental difference between UK and US usage but from my perspective, conservatives wish to conserve - i.e. are averse to change and are traditional in their views and outlook - whether they are conservative politically, religiously or in some other way.

Because of this, there has always been a considerable overlap between conservatives (and in the UK's case Conservatives) and reactionaries.
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Old 9th August 2019, 02:13 AM   #1213
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Maybe I've misunderstood or maybe it's a fundamental difference between UK and US usage but from my perspective, conservatives wish to conserve - i.e. are averse to change and are traditional in their views and outlook - whether they are conservative politically, religiously or in some other way.

Because of this, there has always been a considerable overlap between conservatives (and in the UK's case Conservatives) and reactionaries.
I think you've got it right. I'm just saying that I see being "averse to change and are traditional in their views and outlook" as a viewpoint that easily fits within the liberal political philosophy, provided that you accept our current form of government and accept a democratic process to resolve differences with people who have a different viewpoint on what does or doesn't need changing. Resistance to change by itself isn't really a political philosophy, and reactionaries can easily drift into preferring fascism to liberal democracy.
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Old 9th August 2019, 08:57 AM   #1214
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
And I voted for Dan Evan's. I'd happily vote for that sort of Republican today, but you can't.
Dan Evan's what?

Umm, we can't go into that.

This is a family appropriate forum. No obscenity or other bad stuff like that.
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:14 AM   #1215
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Donald J. Trump Retweeted

Oliver McGee PhD MBA
@OliverMcGee
Retweet if you see @IlhanMN GETS A PASS By The Media says @TuckerCarlson!

"Media ignores @Ilhan Omar's Tax Fraud with someone she wasn't married to! Omar's Marriage History can't be verified by local reporters on accusations she married her brother to skip our immigration laws!"

Video in link https://twitter.com/i/status/1159629234333200386
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:23 AM   #1216
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Donald J. Trump Retweeted

Oliver McGee PhD MBA
@OliverMcGee
Retweet if you see @IlhanMN GETS A PASS By The Media says @TuckerCarlson!

"Media ignores @Ilhan Omar's Tax Fraud with someone she wasn't married to! Omar's Marriage History can't be verified by local reporters on accusations she married her brother to skip our immigration laws!"

Video in link https://twitter.com/i/status/1159629234333200386
He just doesn't know when to quit, does he?
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:24 AM   #1217
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Different people have different positions. Ever consider just thinking for yourself instead?
One might reasonably expect that two people in the same conversation, one of them saying hate has no place, and the other saying hate has a place, to find each other and debate the matter between them. You and Craig4 seem to disagree on a pretty fundamental and important question. Don't you think maybe you should try to resolve that disagreement? Or at least defend it against such blatant contradiction?

Ziggurat's asking a question. You and Craig4 are giving contradictory answers. Which of you is right, and why?
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:25 AM   #1218
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
He just doesn't know when to quit, does he?
Never stop never stopping!
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:32 AM   #1219
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Dan Evan's what?



Stinkin' autocorrect!
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:09 AM   #1220
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Donald J. Trump Retweeted

Oliver McGee PhD MBA
@OliverMcGee
Retweet if you see @IlhanMN GETS A PASS By The Media says @TuckerCarlson!

"Media ignores @Ilhan Omar's Tax Fraud with someone she wasn't married to! Omar's Marriage History can't be verified by local reporters on accusations she married her brother to skip our immigration laws!"

Video in link https://twitter.com/i/status/1159629234333200386
What sort of academic includes PhD in his name? I understand it's common in business settings, but he's a professor of engineering. Mere puffery to include the degree.
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:11 AM   #1221
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One might reasonably expect that two people in the same conversation, one of them saying hate has no place, and the other saying hate has a place, to find each other and debate the matter between them. You and Craig4 seem to disagree on a pretty fundamental and important question. Don't you think maybe you should try to resolve that disagreement? Or at least defend it against such blatant contradiction?

Ziggurat's asking a question. You and Craig4 are giving contradictory answers. Which of you is right, and why?
As you and Zigg are unable to hold up your end of the debate, the new tactic is to try to get your opponents to argue amongst themselves?

You should certainly discuss with Zigg why he can't seem to tell the difference between Craig4 and Cabbage. Perhaps he isn't putting as much into this as you are?
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:13 AM   #1222
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One might reasonably expect that two people in the same conversation, one of them saying hate has no place, and the other saying hate has a place, to find each other and debate the matter between them. You and Craig4 seem to disagree on a pretty fundamental and important question. Don't you think maybe you should try to resolve that disagreement? Or at least defend it against such blatant contradiction?

Ziggurat's asking a question. You and Craig4 are giving contradictory answers. Which of you is right, and why?
It's a dull, vague comment. "Hate has no place in X" is nigh meaningless. It all depends on what one means by hate (and, for that matter, having a place) and most disagreements on such empty slogans will come down to differences in semantics.

But it's cute seeing you and Zig trying to start a kerfuffle. Let's you and him fight, right?
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:01 PM   #1223
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You know how in Eyes Wide Shut, there's this giant orgy, but a lot of the people are just sitting on the side watching while the others in the middle get it on?

It's just the debate equivalent of that.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:53 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Donald J. Trump Retweeted

Oliver McGee PhD MBA
@OliverMcGee
Retweet if you see @IlhanMN GETS A PASS By The Media says @TuckerCarlson!

"Media ignores @Ilhan Omar's Tax Fraud with someone she wasn't married to! Omar's Marriage History can't be verified by local reporters on accusations she married her brother to skip our immigration laws!"

Video in link https://twitter.com/i/status/1159629234333200386
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
He just doesn't know when to quit, does he?
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Never stop never stopping!
Rather than a snide remark, as a sincere and honest supporter of Trump, doesn't his support for and promotion of conspiracy theories disturb you?

It's not the first time either - his fixation on Obama's birth certificate was pretty similar. Either he believes it and he is a racist, or he doesn't and he just panders to racists. Neither is good.

I saw your lament that you apparently haven't been able to have a good-faith discussion about Trump, but did it ever cross your mind that maybe it's him not everyone else? His violation of norms and attempts to usurp democratic institutions has not been seen in a US president since the turn of the 20th Century at least.
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Old 9th August 2019, 04:20 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One might reasonably expect that two people in the same conversation, one of them saying hate has no place, and the other saying hate has a place, to find each other and debate the matter between them. You and Craig4 seem to disagree on a pretty fundamental and important question. Don't you think maybe you should try to resolve that disagreement? Or at least defend it against such blatant contradiction?

Ziggurat's asking a question. You and Craig4 are giving contradictory answers. Which of you is right, and why?
Nah, bro....Debating what Trump means with (and the accuracy of) his empty rhetorical comments seems more appropriate for Trump supporters like you and Zig. I'd rather debate something of actual substance, like how Trump is a lying incompetent traitor.
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Old 10th August 2019, 09:07 AM   #1226
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One might reasonably expect that two people in the same conversation, one of them saying hate has no place, and the other saying hate has a place, to find each other and debate the matter between them. You and Craig4 seem to disagree on a pretty fundamental and important question. Don't you think maybe you should try to resolve that disagreement? Or at least defend it against such blatant contradiction?

Ziggurat's asking a question. You and Craig4 are giving contradictory answers. Which of you is right, and why?
Why?

In any given thread on this forum, there are a multitude of different opinions. People pick and choose which differing opinions they're interested in engaing with at any moment.

If there was some obligation to resolve every disagreement then each of these threads would need hundreds of times as many posts.
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Old 10th August 2019, 09:25 AM   #1227
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Why?...
Why not use a play from the winger playbook?

I have tried in good faith to answer these questions. If after all that effort I am still misunderstood, I see no purpose in continuing this line of discussion.



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