ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 9th July 2019, 02:52 PM   #2041
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,258
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Which was utterly obvious given that that part of the video was about the "Commander in Chief" whilst discussing the President and Donald Trump and this thread is about Trump's mental health.

It's a bit like Liverpoolmiss on Badscience saying that she wonders who "Individual One" could have been in the Cohen indictment. She managed to narrow it down to someone who was the Republican presidential nominee for 2016...
Well......it's obvious if you actually watched the video. Which leads me to suspect theprestige didn't actually watch it.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 03:01 PM   #2042
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well......it's obvious if you actually watched the video. Which leads me to suspect theprestige didn't actually watch it.
I didn't need to watch the video to know they were talking about the commander in chief. Nor did I need to watch the video to argue that the commander in chief is subjected to exactly the kind of mental health assessment that Dr Lee has carried out. It's not the same kind of assessment servicemen in sensitive positions get. I equivocted on that. Feel free to criticize my argument on this basis if you want.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 03:10 PM   #2043
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,842
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't have kids. But family operations are quite common.
Trump Inc. is a family operation. The government of the USA is most definitely not.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 03:28 PM   #2044
Safe-Keeper
Philosopher
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8,496
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
While Reagan was still in office, I can remember by mother often saying "There is something wrong with that man!" She noticed that Nancy was never far from his side and watched him like a hawk, often intervening*.
Nancy then, Ivanka now. History repeating itself.
__________________
In choosing to support humanitarian organizations, it's best to choose those that do not have "militant wings" (Mycroft, 2013)
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 03:46 PM   #2045
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,258
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course the person who commands them goes through a mental health evaluation. Indeed, they go through exactly the evaluation that Dr Lee has essayed for Trump.
The POTUS does NOT go through a mental health examination nor is it required to be elected or retain the office. That was Dr. Lee's point.

Quote:
The Department of Defense continuously evaluates and monitors personnel who may cause arming or release of a nuclear weapon. Under the Nuclear Weapon Personnel Reliability Program, “Only those personnel who have demonstrated the highest degree of individual reliability for allegiance, trustworthiness, conduct, behavior, and responsibility shall be allowed to perform duties associated with nuclear weapons, and they shall be continuously evaluated for adherence to PRP standards.”

The president, who has the ultimate responsibility for the use of the most devastating weapons in the history of the world, and who has the sole authority to order the murder of millions of people in an instant, has received only a simple, 10-minute cognitive screen.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I didn't need to watch the video to know they were talking about the commander in chief. Nor did I need to watch the video to argue that the commander in chief is subjected to exactly the kind of mental health assessment that Dr Lee has carried out. It's not the same kind of assessment servicemen in sensitive positions get. I equivocted on that. Feel free to criticize my argument on this basis if you want.
So you didn't watch it. I don't think you did know it was the POTUS they were talking about or you'd have said so. I think were referring to active duty commanding officers which would make sense in your first statement above.

How would you know what kind of mental health evaluation Lee was talking about in the video if you didn't watch it? What evidence can you provide that any C in C is subjected to ANY mental health assessment on a regular basis (meaning a test traditionally given to all presidents)?
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 04:00 PM   #2046
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Trump Inc. is a family operation. The government of the USA is most definitely not.
I have at least 60 years of First Ladies that says otherwise.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 04:04 PM   #2047
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The POTUS does NOT go through a mental health examination nor is it required to be elected or retain the office. That was Dr. Lee's point.





So you didn't watch it. I don't think you did know it was the POTUS they were talking about or you'd have said so. I think were referring to active duty commanding officers which would make sense in your first statement above.

How would you know what kind of mental health evaluation Lee was talking about in the video if you didn't watch it? What evidence can you provide that any C in C is subjected to ANY mental health assessment on a regular basis (meaning a test traditionally given to all presidents)?
Dr Lee's mental health evaluation of Trump is literally the topic of this thread.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 04:25 PM   #2048
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,842
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I have at least 60 years of First Ladies that says otherwise.
You misunderstand. Trump treats this US government lark as though it is part of Trump Inc. The goals of Trump Inc. are to make profits for Trump Inc. and more importantly for Trump personally. He can run his business like that, no problems. But he, and nobody else either, cannot personally profit from his government executive tax-paid position. There's 200+ year old laws and stuff that say that.

First Ladies being vital to supporting the goals of the president are not "family business". That's normal around the world. But First Ladies and family members injecting themselves into government un-elected and profiting for themselves and/or their families alone is "family business", aka nepotism. Eva Peron, for example. But Ivanka is definitely no Evita. (And Trump is no Peron.)

The mental problem for Trump is that he cannot make this distinction. His world revolves around him alone. There is no such thing as a government/family divide. That's a massive mental problem to be dealing with.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by Norman Alexander; 9th July 2019 at 04:26 PM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 04:34 PM   #2049
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,258
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dr Lee's mental health evaluation of Trump is literally the topic of this thread.
Sigh. Stop dancing around like you're stepping on hot coals. It ain't workin'.

OUR CURRENT TOPIC is about your statements that I quoted above regarding the POTUS not being given a mental capacity exam unlike military personnel who could deploy nuclear weapons. OUR CURRENT TOPIC is about you making false statements:

Quote:
Of course the person who commands them goes through a mental health evaluation. Indeed, they go through exactly the evaluation that Dr Lee has essayed for Trump.
You were NOT referring to the POTUS as you later claimed:

Quote:
I didn't need to watch the video to know they were talking about the commander in chief.
That is made clear from the second sentence unless you want now claim that "they" is now "Trump".

Stop pulling a Trump. You did NOT know Lee was referring to the POTUS, you did NOT watch the video, and you WERE referring to commanding officers as 'they'.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 04:51 PM   #2050
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Sigh. Stop dancing around like you're stepping on hot coals. It ain't workin'.

OUR CURRENT TOPIC is about your statements that I quoted above regarding the POTUS not being given a mental capacity exam unlike military personnel who could deploy nuclear weapons. OUR CURRENT TOPIC is about you making false statements:



You were NOT referring to the POTUS as you later claimed:



That is made clear from the second sentence unless you want now claim that "they" is now "Trump".

Stop pulling a Trump. You did NOT know Lee was referring to the POTUS, you did NOT watch the video, and you WERE referring to commanding officers as 'they'.
They is and always has been Trump. He doesn't get the same kind of psych eval as the servicemen who push the button, but he does get one. The statements you're referring to are the statements where I make this exact argument.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 05:44 PM   #2051
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,258
Quote:
Of course the person who commands them goes through a mental health evaluation. Indeed, they go through exactly the evaluation that Dr Lee has essayed for Trump.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I didn't need to watch the video to know they were talking about the commander in chief. Nor did I need to watch the video to argue that the commander in chief is subjected to exactly the kind of mental health assessment that Dr Lee has carried out.

It's not the same kind of assessment servicemen in sensitive positions get. I equivocted on that. Feel free to criticize my argument on this basis if you want.
1. You can argue it, but that does not make it true. Please provide evidence that any C in C, much less Trump, has been given a mental capacity evaluation. The only mental health test Trump was given was a simple 10 question cognitive test.

2. Earlier you said the evaluations were "exactly the same". Now they're "not the same kind of assessment ". That's not 'equivocating'; that's changing your claim 180 degrees.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
They is and always has been Trump. He doesn't get the same kind of psych eval as the servicemen who push the button, but he does get one. The statements you're referring to are the statements where I make this exact argument.
You keep saying the POTUS gets a psych eval but fail to produce any evidence of said evaluation. On the other hand:

Quote:
"Presidents are not required to take psychological or psychiatric evaluations or pass a mental health examination before taking or while serving office in the United States."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...gically-vetted
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 06:27 PM   #2052
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
1. You can argue it, but that does not make it true. Please provide evidence that any C in C, much less Trump, has been given a mental capacity evaluation. The only mental health test Trump was given was a simple 10 question cognitive test.
Certainly. Exhibit A

Quote:
2. Earlier you said the evaluations were "exactly the same". Now they're "not the same kind of assessment ". That's not 'equivocating'; that's changing your claim 180 degrees.
No. Earlier I said:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
they go through exactly the evaluation that Dr Lee has essayed for Trump.
Before we continue, can we at least agree that this is what I said?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 07:37 PM   #2053
Regnad Kcin
Philosopher
 
Regnad Kcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,400
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is there any truth in the rumor that Pence's trip somewhere was abruptly cancelled?

Eta: I read speculation that Trump had a heart attack, so they yanked Pence back in case it turned serious. Personally I'm more inclined to the theory that Trump got his head stuck in a jar of honey.
What, did Melanie just have another child?
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.
Regnad Kcin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2019, 12:34 AM   #2054
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Psychiatrist Bandy Lee On Trump's Deteriorating Mental Health (The Damage Report, TYT), 6:27:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 07:42 AM   #2055
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,104
These tweets document quite a few instances where Trump is obviously struggling with normal activities:

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago

and this video is fully consistent with a loss of inhibitions due to dementia.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1157135706914820097
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 02:39 PM   #2056
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 24,282
It's time for our local Miracle Max to come in and say he's not really demented. He's only mostly demented.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 03:16 PM   #2057
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
It's time for our local Miracle Max to come in and say he's not really demented. He's only mostly demented.
He's too busy pretending he has a valid diagnostic method based on reading Twitter and watching Maddow.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 04:00 PM   #2058
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
These tweets document quite a few instances where Trump is obviously struggling with normal activities:

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago

and this video is fully consistent with a loss of inhibitions due to dementia.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1157135706914820097
I wonder if he stopped himself remembering he was on camera, or whether one jack gesture is a thing now.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd August 2019, 04:04 PM   #2059
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
He's too busy pretending he has a valid diagnostic method based on reading Twitter and watching Maddow.
You don't have a valid diagnostic method but you're sure you can tell when someone else is wrong?

Trump has enough symptoms to suggest his brain is experiencing some problems with aging. Where that crosses the line into dementia is generally much further along than what Trump expresses.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he has full blown pathologic narcissism. People still denying this have no grounds to stand on.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2019, 01:09 AM   #2060
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,104
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You don't have a valid diagnostic method but you're sure you can tell when someone else is wrong?

Trump has enough symptoms to suggest his brain is experiencing some problems with aging. Where that crosses the line into dementia is generally much further along than what Trump expresses.

There is no doubt whatsoever that he has full blown pathologic narcissism. People still denying this have no grounds to stand on.
It's marginally ironic that people denying his cognitive decline are going to find that's a position that can't stand up to scrutiny - at least by the time that Trump physically can't stand up.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2019, 04:00 AM   #2061
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It's marginally ironic that people denying his cognitive decline are going to find that's a position that can't stand up to scrutiny - at least by the time that Trump physically can't stand up.
So. What has the Yale group told you, that you couldn't figure out on your own?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2019, 06:47 AM   #2062
dasmiller
Just the right amount of cowbell
 
dasmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 6,202
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So. What has the Yale group told you, that you couldn't figure out on your own?
Suppose you were driving along out in the boonies somewhere and came across a bridge that appeared to be in dubious condition, but other cars were still using it. So you pulled over before crossing the bridge, and your engineer friend hopped out, looked around the bridge a bit, and said, "Holy crap, this thing's in really bad shape. It could go at any minute."

I would probably say, "Hey, thanks for that. Maybe we should try to warn these other cars not to use it until it can get a proper inspection and maybe some repairs."

But I suppose that another reasonable approach would be, "Hey, you didn't perform a proper inspection, so we should assume the bridge is safe. And anyway, I already thought it looked dubious, so you didn't tell me anything I didn't know."
__________________
"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt
dasmiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2019, 03:22 PM   #2063
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,427
Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness', say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 2

I would probably say that analogies suck.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th August 2019, 11:03 PM   #2064
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Quote:
- “We have to get it stopped, this has been going on for years and we have to get it stopped,” Trump said.
- The president said he would make statement on the shootings Monday.
- “This is also a mental illness problem,” Trump said of the mass shootings. “These are people that are very, very seriously mentally ill.”
Trump says mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton are a ‘mental illness problem’ (CNBC, Aug. 4, 2019)

It's a mental illness problem as well as a racism problem, and Trump shares both of these problems with the shooters, which is why he is such an inspiration to them.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th August 2019, 08:13 PM   #2065
Delvo
الشيطان الأبيض
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,009
I'm aware that Trump's mental-health problem is a separate thing from the fact that he's just spectacularly stupid, but the stupidity doesn't have its own thread, so...

Two of his recent rounds of saying something flabbergastingly stupid have something in common that I haven't seen others point out yet, and not connecting them has led some commenters to misidentify exactly what kind of brain glitch he was experiencing. In one case, he said soldiers took over airports during the American Revolution, which led some people to say he'd gotten history mixed up and out of order. In the other case, he said that one of the recent couple of mass shootings happened in Toledo, which led some people to say he didn't know where they'd actually happened. But they miss something about both cases that ties them together as results of a single cause. In both cases, he was using a script somebody else had written, and what he said was a deviation from the script.

Having always been only semi-literate, he's spent his life "reading" the way other semi-literate people do: by recognizing bits & pieces and bluffing through the gaps between them. The "airports" ad-lib came right after the word "ramparts", and "Toledo, Ohio" replaced "Texas and Ohio". After successfully sounding out "ramparts", he realized that he didn't know the word "ramparts" or think it was a real word, so, being aware of his own semi-literacy, he thought he must have misread it and had to fix it by putting in the closest-sounding "real" (to him) word. And he knew that at least one shooting had happened in Ohio, saw a phrase that started with a big capital T and ended with Ohio, figured it was naming the town in Ohio where it had happened, and knew that he hadn't heard of any other Ohio towns starting with a T lately.

There's no part of this that isn't perfectly routine and ordinary in the lives of semi-literate people. Some of them are presumably better at putting on such an act than others, but it always involves some risk of something like the above going wrong. And since we know from other evidence that long predates his "Presidency" that he has never been fully literate, some episodes like that are to be expected, so this explanation single-handedly covers both of these goofs without even needing to introduce one single new assumption, unlike the separate unconnected alternatives I've heard elsewhere (that he doesn't know that the Revolutionary War long predates airports, and that he actually thought the shooting had happened in Toledo).

For the "ramparts" one, the blame probably goes to his babysitters. They should be aware that that word wouldn't be in his vocabulary and shouldn't be in a speech he'll be expected to bluff-read. The "Toledo" one was probably unavoidable. If things like that are getting more common it could be a sign that his literacy level is getting worse, but I don't know that they are.
Delvo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 09:13 AM   #2066
Safe-Keeper
Philosopher
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8,496
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
These tweets document quite a few instances where Trump is obviously struggling with normal activities:

https://twitter.com/TomJChicago

and this video is fully consistent with a loss of inhibitions due to dementia.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1157135706914820097
Dementia is a terrible condition. Even though he's a horrible person, I actually feel bad for him.
__________________
In choosing to support humanitarian organizations, it's best to choose those that do not have "militant wings" (Mycroft, 2013)
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 09:27 AM   #2067
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm aware that Trump's mental-health problem is a separate thing from the fact that he's just spectacularly stupid, but the stupidity doesn't have its own thread, so...
Pretty sure his stupidity has multiple threads. The Trump Presidency Part X thread seems like an obvious choice for this.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 10:11 AM   #2068
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,675
Gee, I am very disappointed that Trump is diagnosing the mental health of mass shooters with far fewer standards than apparently we must apply to our own diagnosing of Trump in this thread.

Seems unbalanced.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 10:27 AM   #2069
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Gee, I am very disappointed that Trump is diagnosing the mental health of mass shooters with far fewer standards than apparently we must apply to our own diagnosing of Trump in this thread.

Seems unbalanced.: )
Seems like whataboutism to me.

But I am open to arguments that Trump is at least as qualified as the Yale group, to perform remote diagnosis.

And if you ever catch me defending Trump's clinical diagnosis of others, please call it out.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 10:43 AM   #2070
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,104
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seems like whataboutism to me.

But I am open to arguments that Trump is at least as qualified as the Yale group, to perform remote diagnosis.

And if you ever catch me defending Trump's clinical diagnosis of others, please call it out.
Trump is not qualified as a psychiatrist. Members of the Yale group are experts.

Neither of us are, but the members of the Yale group who had confidence that he is a particular danger, and, based on his actions as described in the Muller report, Trump now seems disconnected from reality

They also make specific claims and recommendations, for example:

Quote:
I would like to highlight two of our greatest concerns. Immediate removal from access to nuclear weapons. The fact that an individual with access to thousands of nuclear weapons which have the capacity to destroy humanity and the world many times over is certainly an unacceptable situation with Donald Trump's level of mental incapacity. The war-making powers are vested in a president. We ask that Donald Trump's ability to make war be removed because he certainly is not in a position to have such powers.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 12:02 PM   #2071
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
...
But I am open to arguments that Trump is at least as qualified as the Yale group, to perform remote diagnosis.



Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
...And if you ever catch me defending Trump's clinical diagnosis of others, please call it out.
If you are implying in this post that "remote diagnosis" is a farce, we have thoroughly addressed that in this thread. Changing what you call it to a bull **** term doesn't reopen the argument.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 12:21 PM   #2072
Safe-Keeper
Philosopher
 
Safe-Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8,496
I notice the trumpkins seem to be pretty silent on their wannabe Führer's health issues, compared to the other Trump-related topics. I suppose the symptoms are just becoming too apparent to ignore or handwave with whataboutisms. It's like the radio silence after the blue wave all over again.
__________________
In choosing to support humanitarian organizations, it's best to choose those that do not have "militant wings" (Mycroft, 2013)
Safe-Keeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th August 2019, 01:00 PM   #2073
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,104
Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
I notice the trumpkins seem to be pretty silent on their wannabe Führer's health issues, compared to the other Trump-related topics. I suppose the symptoms are just becoming too apparent to ignore or handwave with whataboutisms. It's like the radio silence after the blue wave all over again.
Yes.

He's obviously abnormal and demonstrating increasingly odd behaviours.

And his weird facial grimaces and inability to use stairs or umbrellas are literally visible.

Trump might not mind coming across as an idiot a salt of the earth person who says what he thinks. But he's vain as anything, and wouldn't want to look more clueless than Grandpa Simpson.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th August 2019, 12:19 AM   #2074
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Speaking of health issues, Grampa Simpson didn't suffer from heel spur!
Quote:
Grampa is a veteran of World War II, where he served as Master Sergeant of the Flying Hellfish unit. (Wikipedia)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th August 2019, 01:19 AM   #2075
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9,538
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm aware that Trump's mental-health problem is a separate thing from the fact that he's just spectacularly stupid, but the stupidity doesn't have its own thread, so...

Two of his recent rounds of saying something flabbergastingly stupid have something in common that I haven't seen others point out yet, and not connecting them has led some commenters to misidentify exactly what kind of brain glitch he was experiencing. In one case, he said soldiers took over airports during the American Revolution, which led some people to say he'd gotten history mixed up and out of order. In the other case, he said that one of the recent couple of mass shootings happened in Toledo, which led some people to say he didn't know where they'd actually happened. But they miss something about both cases that ties them together as results of a single cause. In both cases, he was using a script somebody else had written, and what he said was a deviation from the script.

Having always been only semi-literate, he's spent his life "reading" the way other semi-literate people do: by recognizing bits & pieces and bluffing through the gaps between them. The "airports" ad-lib came right after the word "ramparts", and "Toledo, Ohio" replaced "Texas and Ohio". After successfully sounding out "ramparts", he realized that he didn't know the word "ramparts" or think it was a real word, so, being aware of his own semi-literacy, he thought he must have misread it and had to fix it by putting in the closest-sounding "real" (to him) word. And he knew that at least one shooting had happened in Ohio, saw a phrase that started with a big capital T and ended with Ohio, figured it was naming the town in Ohio where it had happened, and knew that he hadn't heard of any other Ohio towns starting with a T lately.

There's no part of this that isn't perfectly routine and ordinary in the lives of semi-literate people. Some of them are presumably better at putting on such an act than others, but it always involves some risk of something like the above going wrong. And since we know from other evidence that long predates his "Presidency" that he has never been fully literate, some episodes like that are to be expected, so this explanation single-handedly covers both of these goofs without even needing to introduce one single new assumption, unlike the separate unconnected alternatives I've heard elsewhere (that he doesn't know that the Revolutionary War long predates airports, and that he actually thought the shooting had happened in Toledo).

For the "ramparts" one, the blame probably goes to his babysitters. They should be aware that that word wouldn't be in his vocabulary and shouldn't be in a speech he'll be expected to bluff-read. The "Toledo" one was probably unavoidable. If things like that are getting more common it could be a sign that his literacy level is getting worse, but I don't know that they are.
Sounds plausible. I tutor 3rd graders that read better than he does.

I've always felt that people with low reading skills are missing out on something, but I'm not sure the affected people see it that way. They might not miss what they never had.

Last edited by Minoosh; 11th August 2019 at 01:26 AM.
Minoosh is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:28 PM   #2076
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

The New York Times will be out of business soon after I leave office, hopefully in 6 years. They have Zero credibility and are losing a fortune, even now, especially after their massive unfunded liability. I’m fairly certain they’ll endorse me just to keep it all going!
Tell me this man is not certifiably insane.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:48 PM   #2077
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,793
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Tell me this man is not certifiably insane.
This man is not certifiably insane.

Whatever that means.

It would not surprise me if the NYT has an underfunded pension liability, but I'm pretty sure Trump is just trolling you with this one.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:15 PM   #2078
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 21,104
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This man is not certifiably insane.
How do you know? The only experts to speak out say that he demonstrates very concerning behaviours. They also point out that they don't need a personal assessment to find those.

Experts have said that the Muller report itself documents strong evidence that he's divorced from reality. I get that you don't think this is a potential danger, but I still don't see why.

"Insane" is a fuzzy term, but being divorced from reality, and quite possibly literally getting demented doesn't strike me as a good mental state for someone in charge of the world's largest nuclear arsenal.

Proclaiming that there's nothing wrong with Trump is getting increasingly risky, as his decline continues and will probably accelerate. Channelling Roger Ramjets, I'd encourage the GOPanti-democratic party to deny what's getting more obvious, as there's probably an evens chance that Trump will be so far gone by the next election that it won't be able to be hidden on TV.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:31 PM   #2079
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,926
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I'm aware that Trump's mental-health problem is a separate thing from the fact that he's just spectacularly stupid, but the stupidity doesn't have its own thread, so...

Two of his recent rounds of saying something flabbergastingly stupid have something in common that I haven't seen others point out yet, and not connecting them has led some commenters to misidentify exactly what kind of brain glitch he was experiencing. In one case, he said soldiers took over airports during the American Revolution, which led some people to say he'd gotten history mixed up and out of order. In the other case, he said that one of the recent couple of mass shootings happened in Toledo, which led some people to say he didn't know where they'd actually happened. But they miss something about both cases that ties them together as results of a single cause. In both cases, he was using a script somebody else had written, and what he said was a deviation from the script.

Having always been only semi-literate, he's spent his life "reading" the way other semi-literate people do: by recognizing bits & pieces and bluffing through the gaps between them. The "airports" ad-lib came right after the word "ramparts", and "Toledo, Ohio" replaced "Texas and Ohio". After successfully sounding out "ramparts", he realized that he didn't know the word "ramparts" or think it was a real word, so, being aware of his own semi-literacy, he thought he must have misread it and had to fix it by putting in the closest-sounding "real" (to him) word. And he knew that at least one shooting had happened in Ohio, saw a phrase that started with a big capital T and ended with Ohio, figured it was naming the town in Ohio where it had happened, and knew that he hadn't heard of any other Ohio towns starting with a T lately.

There's no part of this that isn't perfectly routine and ordinary in the lives of semi-literate people. Some of them are presumably better at putting on such an act than others, but it always involves some risk of something like the above going wrong. And since we know from other evidence that long predates his "Presidency" that he has never been fully literate, some episodes like that are to be expected, so this explanation single-handedly covers both of these goofs without even needing to introduce one single new assumption, unlike the separate unconnected alternatives I've heard elsewhere (that he doesn't know that the Revolutionary War long predates airports, and that he actually thought the shooting had happened in Toledo).

For the "ramparts" one, the blame probably goes to his babysitters. They should be aware that that word wouldn't be in his vocabulary and shouldn't be in a speech he'll be expected to bluff-read. The "Toledo" one was probably unavoidable. If things like that are getting more common it could be a sign that his literacy level is getting worse, but I don't know that they are.
Interesting. I've had sort of a half formed hypothesis for awhile now that Trump has a literacy problem (based on news media stories that say he doesn't read documents presented to him). I haven't been sure enough of it to propose it publicly. It would certainly explain a lot (but is probably not the only explanation).
CORed is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:54 PM   #2080
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,258
Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Interesting. I've had sort of a half formed hypothesis for awhile now that Trump has a literacy problem (based on news media stories that say he doesn't read documents presented to him). I haven't been sure enough of it to propose it publicly. It would certainly explain a lot (but is probably not the only explanation).
I think a literacy problem is the least of his 'problems'. But a college graduate and self-proclaimed genius who spells Marine Corps as Marine Core, smoking as smocking, Al Qaeda as alcaida among others and doesn't bother to review his tweets before publishing them shows very poor judgment. Typos happen to all of us, but the POTUS should be smart enough to review his tweets for such before posting. The operative word here is 'should'. That he continues to tweet laughable typos and misspellings is evidence of his poor judgment.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:10 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.