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Tags donald trump , immigration issues , Trump controversies

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Old 9th August 2019, 11:14 PM   #1521
WilliamSeger
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
I agree. Trekking a child through the Sonora desert is child abuse and if I did the same thing I'd be arrested for child endangerment and separated from my child. I don't expect my government to give special privilege to foreign people.
What a nauseatingly pathetic dodge. We're talking about what ICE is deliberately doing to children: child abuse, plain and simple.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th August 2019 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 12:07 AM   #1522
dann
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Originally Posted by dann View Post
And one more, this one from CNN:

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I AGREE
This is a forum for discussion, not to show your browser history.

So why don't you discuss the the crying child who is telling journalists that her dad is not a criminal?
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Old 10th August 2019, 06:47 AM   #1523
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https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/stat...29510348369920

Quote:
NEW: Even as @realdonaldtrump railed against illegal immigration, his company quietly relied on its own crew of largely undocumented construction workers.
Two years into his presidency, it still does.
Article embedded in tweet.

Also: https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/stat...49977704800257

Quote:
These are the questions we sent @realDonaldTrump's White House press office about this story. They declined comment.
Quotes embedded in tweet, with more in subsequent tweets.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:12 AM   #1524
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https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/stat...35517745168385

Quote:
Running list of @realDonaldTrump biz's that used undocumented labor:
-Bedminster golf club
-Westchester club
-Colts Neck club
-Philly club
-Hudson Valley club
-Doral club
-Virginia club
-Bronx club
-Trump Winery...
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:14 AM   #1525
dann
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Quote:
NEW: Even as @realdonaldtrump railed against illegal immigration, his company quietly relied on its own crew of largely undocumented construction workers.
Two years into his presidency, it still does.

Article embedded in tweet.

So the whole point of taking parents away from their children in Mississippi is to inconvenience his competitors in construction?!

But there is probably nothing to worry about. I'm sure these American children are all paid crisis actors, in particular that 11-year-old Macalena Gomez!

Quote:
Children finished their first day of school with no parents to go home to tonight. Babies and toddlers remained at day care with no guardian to pick them up. A child vainly searched a workplace parking lot for missing parents.
ICE raid leaves kids pleading for their parents' freedom (MSNBC)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 10th August 2019 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:22 AM   #1526
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
So why don't you discuss the the crying child who is telling journalists that her dad is not a criminal?
Her dad is a criminal.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:24 AM   #1527
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
What a nauseatingly pathetic dodge. We're talking about what ICE is deliberately doing to children: child abuse, plain and simple.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
No argument on why foreign nationals entering the country illegally deserve better treatment than American citizens. Just the typical, tired, and hackneyed "you're racist." Yawn.

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th August 2019 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:26 AM   #1528
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Oh wow, then we must be prosecuting like, a ton of trafficking cases against the perpetrators, right? And then we're reuniting the kids with their parents or nearest relative, right?
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th August 2019 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:36 AM   #1529
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Are Undocumented Immigrants Bringing Crime To The U.S.? Study Says Nope. - Donald Trump has repeatedly bashed undocumented immigrants are “rapists” and criminals. A new analysis debunks this claim. (HuffPost, May 14, 2019)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:38 AM   #1530
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Illegal entry is a crime.

Save yourself the time and stop posting hyperlinks no one is clicking on.
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Old 10th August 2019, 08:35 AM   #1531
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Illegal entry is a crime.
So Macalena deserves to have ICE take her father for a misdemeanor. Great system!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th August 2019, 09:30 AM   #1532
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Democratic leaders encourage illegal immigration and when people overwhelm the system, the Democrats and their media lapdogs pretend they care. Amazing.
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Old 10th August 2019, 09:53 AM   #1533
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Her dad is a criminal.
I'm sure his crime harmed millions and millions.

Hey, remember when the GOP and other right-wingers were floating that whole 'compassionate conservatism' for a while? To try and show that they could be conservative without the cruelty that conservatives had become known for? Then they realized "Hey, between Gerrymandering, voter-suppression, and the electoral college we can lose a popular vote by millions and still win! Screw this 'compassion' crap, let's just be as cruel as we want to whoever we want!". That's your mindless, GOP cruelty in action right up there in the quote box.
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Old 10th August 2019, 10:56 AM   #1534
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It's perhaps worth noting that improper entry (as what is commonly called "illegal entry" is actually legally termed) is a misdemeanour. One that carries a penalty of a fine of $50-250 and/or imprisonment for up to 6 months. Everybody arguing that people deserve to be separated from their children for this crime is arguing that about a minor misdemeanour.

The way it usually operated before Trump's policies came in to effect was that asylum seekers who couldn't enter properly would enter improperly and then turn themselves in. They would be held for a little while until their trial, at which point they would be sentenced to time served and either sent back home if asylum was not granted, or set free if asylum was granted.

Now many legal ports of entry have been closed, leaving people little option but to enter improperly, and the child separation policy and zero tolerance policies are what they are.

Because it's not about reducing crime, and it's not about clamping down on illegal immigration. If it were truly about clamping down on illegal immigration, then they would start prosecuting companies who employ illegal immigrants. Not to mention the fact that the majority of illegal immigrants in the US entered the country on completely valid visas and then just remained after they had expired.

As internal documents released from the White House have shown, it's about punishing immigrants and about appealing to racist voters without saying things which are overtly or unambiguously racist.
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Old 10th August 2019, 12:39 PM   #1535
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It's perhaps worth noting that improper entry (as what is commonly called "illegal entry" is actually legally termed) is a misdemeanour. One that carries a penalty of a fine of $50-250 and/or imprisonment for up to 6 months. Everybody arguing that people deserve to be separated from their children for this crime is arguing that about a minor misdemeanour.
Its funny, when the child separation first came to light, many of the right-wing memes were posted with pictures of US citizens at trials or in prison and bemoaned how this mother or that mother was separated from their child due to criminal acts.

Of course, the criminal acts of said mothers were usually very far into the felony category, such as being a meth dealer, attacking a policeman with a knife, or, you guessed it child abuse.

So here we are again back into the 'They're criminaaaaaaaaalllllssss!!!!' line, as if each were a serial killer with a dozen victims already under their knife.
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Old 11th August 2019, 05:54 AM   #1536
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I'm actually trying to take your claim seriously. You say that there is a serious child trafficking problem. Okay, then where are the prosecutions?
Held up for medical reasons. Appearing in court is no trivial matter when you have smallpox.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:05 AM   #1537
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Do you think the parents are blameless or was he simply wrong for saying it out loud? What would you expect a cop to say? It's all about the law for LEO.

What was the rest of his response to the question?

Aren't the parents responsible for being in this situation? Do people think they all ran from certain death in their own countries? Are we to believe they are all refugees? That is naive. They knew they could be apprehended and came illegally anyways. How do we know some aren't criminals back home, and which ones?

That's just one problem with how we are handling the border - we don't know anything about many of them.

The parents do share in this responsibility. In fact, who else should we blame?

Everyone is being negatively impacted - illegals and citizens - by our unwillingness to be consistent with our own border and laws. That makes me mad. They are becoming more emboldened - throwing rocks and attacking border patrol. Somehow these people seem to have the impression that they can get away with it, that they are entitled to be here.

I wonder what gave them that attitude?

It is that attitude that is responsible for the huge waves of people coming, and it is this incredible number of people that are causing the problems at the detention centers.

They are coming because they know they can get in and that our border is a mess. Change that and solve the problems.
A swing and a W I I I D E miss!

Even if the parents had committed murder, the State (the Powers That Be) completely ignoring their children is reprehensible. When the policy of meanness to even the innocent has spread rash-like from the racists at the top all the way down to the lowest executors (NOT executioners, for the less literate), society has a serious issue to address.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:37 AM   #1538
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I'm seeing parallels between ICE and the Gestapo (to name but one odious arm of the "law" from history). The State's enforcers engender outsized fear for otherwise trivial matters (to dispassionate observers), or for being in the wrong demographic.

The Trump Administration is taking a page out of the Nazi playbook. The early Terror against the Nazis' principal target, the Jews, was to instill fear that would drive them out of their own volition. By callously heaping misery upon children--in 2019 America--the Trump Regime will justifiably go down in ignominious comparison with despotic regimes, such as that of the Third Reich.

If Trumpistas scream "Godwin!", I would retort, "Read your history, and see today clearly."

Last edited by Lurch; 11th August 2019 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 11th August 2019, 01:46 PM   #1539
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Democratic leaders encourage illegal immigration and when people overwhelm the system, the Democrats and their media lapdogs pretend they care. Amazing.

Yep.

The problem is that too many people are getting in to begin with.


Quote:
Lurch
I'm seeing parallels between ICE and the Gestapo (to name but one odious arm of the "law" from history). The State's enforcers engender outsized fear for otherwise trivial matters (to dispassionate observers), or for being in the wrong demographic.

The Trump Administration is taking a page out of the Nazi playbook. The early Terror against the Nazis' principal target, the Jews, was to instill fear that would drive them out of their own volition. By callously heaping misery upon children--in 2019 America--the Trump Regime will justifiably go down in ignominious comparison with despotic regimes, such as that of the Third Reich.

If Trumpistas scream "Godwin!", I would retort, "Read your history, and see today clearly."

Talk about fear-mongering. How you can write that and say the evil right is the one "engendering outsized fear"?

I asked for solutions many pages ago, and probably more than once. All we ever get is more drama. Jews, Hitler, Trump, we're all racist.

How should we handle all the people coming here? Keep building bigger detention centers? Let them walk in and pick a home? You know many end up homeless, right? Maybe try and keep them from getting in illegally in the first place?

Remember when Trump said this was a national emergency? Seems like people are agreeing now, but they've twisted it into being Trump's fault, and the chiiiildren are used as the emotional trigger that should soften us all up. NOW we can care about this! "Trump isn't handling this overwhelming problem perfectly...woohoo!!!" and suddenly people care.

There are too many people coming in for us to handle. That is the problem.

What is your, or anyone's solution? Godwin and Hitler are not solutions. Crying "racist" is not a solution.

It's almost as if we need this situation so we can score political points on each other. I've said from the beginning that these people are just pawns in a big political and power game, as they always have been.

Both "sides" are culpable and always have been. We, the people, are the only ones who care about them. The politicians need us to care one way or the other to sell us their BS, but they themselves do not.

Saying either political "side" is more moral than the other is a joke. Who has actually tried to solve this problem?
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Old 11th August 2019, 02:46 PM   #1540
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Yep.

The problem is that too many people are getting in to begin with.
...
There are too many people coming in for us to handle. That is the problem.

What is your, or anyone's solution? Godwin and Hitler are not solutions. Crying "racist" is not a solution.
Your problem definition it too vague: Is the problem that we aren't providing enough resources to handle these people, that we aren't doing anything about the reasons that so many want to leave their homes, or do you agree with Trump that the problem is we just don't want them here?
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Old 11th August 2019, 08:16 PM   #1541
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
There is.
Back it up. How many human trafficking prosecutions have begun in light of the child separation policy?
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Old 11th August 2019, 08:22 PM   #1542
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Q.E.D. I asked why foreign people deserve special treatment over US citizens.
That's not happening.

For one, a citizen would only be detained for a few days without an indictment. Border crossers are being detained for significantly longer without a grand jury hearing.

Second, even if a child's parents were to be detained, the child can stay with other relatives. Trump's child separation policy does not permit this option for border crossers.

So you're completely wrong. I know there's nothing I can possibly do to make you not be racist, but all I'm gonna ask you to do from this point forward is to stop making stuff up. Would that be okay?
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:12 PM   #1543
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When I draw parallels between ICE and the Gestapo, one event which crystalized this is ICE's detention of a *US citizen* for some 3 weeks. Smells of more than mere incompetence to me.

So we have these raids, sweeping up workers by the hundred. But as far as I understand, not a single company employing illegals has faced prosecution. (And let's not forget the Trump companies to this day employing undocumented workers.) Those employers must like this state of affairs, not having to pay even their paltry wages after such sweeps.

Hypocrisy really rubs my fur the wrong way.
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Old 11th August 2019, 09:56 PM   #1544
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Maybe try and keep them from getting in illegally in the first place?
It always amazes me when people believe the U.S. does not already do this.
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Old 12th August 2019, 03:34 AM   #1545
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Mod WarningStop the personalization and silly attempts at insulting each other. Thread is being put on moderated status until it can be cleaned up and the appropriate moderation actions taken
Posted By:Darat
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Old 12th August 2019, 04:52 AM   #1546
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
So Macalena deserves to have ICE take her father for a misdemeanor. Great system!
Hell he might be a citizen it isn't like ICE balks at arresting them too.
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Old 12th August 2019, 04:54 AM   #1547
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Its funny, when the child separation first came to light, many of the right-wing memes were posted with pictures of US citizens at trials or in prison and bemoaned how this mother or that mother was separated from their child due to criminal acts.

Of course, the criminal acts of said mothers were usually very far into the felony category, such as being a meth dealer, attacking a policeman with a knife, or, you guessed it child abuse.

So here we are again back into the 'They're criminaaaaaaaaalllllssss!!!!' line, as if each were a serial killer with a dozen victims already under their knife.
We should send the children of every one who gets a speeding ticket to concentration camps! That will send a message.
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Old 16th August 2019, 01:50 AM   #1548
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Appeals court says soap, toothbrushes can be required for detained children

Quote:
CNN)A federal appeals court on Thursday dismissed a Trump administration argument that "safe and sanitary" conditions do not specifically require access to items such as soap and toothbrushes, as well as adequate sleep for children in custody at Border Patrol stations.

A three-judge panel for the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a lower court had the right to specify what "safe and sanitary" conditions were required.
The lower court ordered the government to provide specific hygiene items, as well as directing the government to hire a "juvenile coordinator."
CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/polit...ody/index.html
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Old 16th August 2019, 04:25 AM   #1550
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Typical activist liberal democrat judge, mollycoddling criminals, next they be giving them bread and water!
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Old 16th August 2019, 08:05 AM   #1551
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I mean, how many oxygen molecules does a child really need?
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Old 16th August 2019, 08:42 AM   #1552
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I mean, how many oxygen molecules does a child really need?
I think you need to rethink that. How many oxygen molecules are you going to let these criminals steal from upright Americans!
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Old 16th August 2019, 08:53 AM   #1553
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A Jewish civil rights group "Never Again" were assaulted by a private prison guard captain when he drove his vehicle through their protest on Wednesday evening. In the immediate aftermath, more guards swarmed on them with pepper spray.

Thomas Woodworth: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Amidst all of the just heartwarming details of this story is this bit:

Quote:
Rhode Island politician Aaron Regunberg said on Facebook that police declined to intervene, did not detain the driver and did not take witness statements from protesters. Regunberg wrote, “I also want to make very clear that literally dozens of us from tonight’s protest asked, clamored, demanded that the police take witness statements about the attack, and they actively refused to do so.”

Central Falls Police Chief Daniel Barzykowski told the Providence Journal that wasn’t true. “We asked anyone that saw anything to come to the station and file a report [due to the number of people on the scene],” he told the newspaper.

State Police Major Timothy Sanzi told the newspaper they would like witnesses to come forward. He added, “We are looking into any possible crime. We just want to assure the public that we are doing a complete and thorough investigation.”
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Old 16th August 2019, 09:02 AM   #1554
Belz...
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I mean, how many oxygen molecules does a child really need?
It depends on whether those children can stand on their own two feet, as air pressure is different at ground level.
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Old 16th August 2019, 09:23 AM   #1555
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
...from upright Americans!
Totally read that as uptight Americans.
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Old 16th August 2019, 01:30 PM   #1556
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Illegal entry is a crime.

Save yourself the time and stop posting hyperlinks no one is clicking on.
Just to be clear, if someone asks whether it's true that illegal immigrants bring crime, you seriously think that pointing out their defining feature is a crime?

That's not the kind of crime that concerns people when they talk about illegal immigration and crime, you know. Trump mentions rape and murder. He doesn't justify his claim that they increase crime by pointing out that their entry was illegal.
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM   #1557
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Just to be clear, if someone asks whether it's true that illegal immigrants bring crime, you seriously think that pointing out their defining feature is a crime?



That's not the kind of crime that concerns people when they talk about illegal immigration and crime, you know. Trump mentions rape and murder. He doesn't justify his claim that they increase crime by pointing out that their entry was illegal.
Love that line from Jim Jefferies bit, "you must think a lot of yourself if you think everyone's coming to murder your family."
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 PM   #1558
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Just to be clear, if someone asks whether it's true that illegal immigrants bring crime, you seriously think that pointing out their defining feature is a crime?
That wasn't what was being asked. There wasn't even a question that was being asked.
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