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Tags donald trump , Ilhan Omar , immigration issues , racism incidents , racism issues , Trump controversies

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Old 19th July 2019, 08:14 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I quite like the Jews I've met though.
I assume you've pre-selected them for anti-Zionism.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:18 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I really hope that this doesn't happen - wrestling with porkers comes to mind.

Unless it's at a restaurant and someone's meal isn't of a suitable standard in which case I'd suggest a chant of

"Send it back !"
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Which will feed into the childish "Well they get to do it!" mentality.
Only for the humor challenged. (I was thinking of Melania in her Tacky Coat at the border, or Ivanka in Japan playing grown-up with daddy.) It'd make a great FlickR caption.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:22 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Quote:
Wanna guess how Melania's gonna be greeted at numerous stops in the future?
"Send Her Back!"
Which will feed into the childish "Well they get to do it!" mentality.
Maybe. Or maybe it will highlight the racism and hypocrisy in the republican position, and force at least a few of them to address the double standards in the situation.

Remember, one of the best tools that we have to stop christian over-reach is to use the trappings of satanism. (e.g. getting rid of 10-commandments monuments by insisting they install a statue of baphomet in the interests of religious equality). Its possible that chanting "send her back" at Melania might have the same response... forcing Trump supporters to confront their double standards.

Sadly there is no definitive rule that says "Do this and you will accomplish your goal". I really don't know if it will be a good thing or bad thing to chant 'sent her back' at melania, but then I don't think you or anyone else does either.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:25 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, lets see....
Special pleading.

Quote:
So, Gorka has had multiple legal problems. On the other hand, I know of no similar legal problems for Ilhan Omar
Because you haven't paid attention.

Quote:
It is not hypocritical to suggest people that might be violating serious laws should be deported
Pretty much only immigration fraud would qualify an American citizen for deportation. Other serious criminal acts would only result in prison time or other punishments within the US. And the accusations against Gorka on that score are a joke.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:26 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Calling for civility is what you do if you can't argue the actual case.
Sounds like you're defending Trump.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:29 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
... I could also point out that 'send them back' does have a special meaning when applied to members of visible minorities, as compared to those of european origin.
Also for US citizens who immigrated.

If I was Omar, I'd be hugely concerned about my personal safety right now.

And regarding the Gorka red herring that Zig foisted: Something the POTUS says or does is in an entirely different league than what a member of the media says or does. Obviously.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:30 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Maybe. Or maybe it will highlight the racism and hypocrisy in the republican position, and force at least a few of them to address the double standards in the situation.
I care about the Dem's keeping track of the Republican hypocrisy about as much as I care about the Republicans keeping track of Dem's hypocrisy.

Not all that much.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:30 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Sounds like you're defending Trump.
does it?

I'm curious how.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:30 AM   #209
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Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
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When will the Radical Left Congresswomen apologize to our Country, the people of Israel and even to the Office of the President, for the foul language they have used, and the terrible things they have said. So many people are angry at them & their horrible & disgusting actions!

If Democrats want to unite around the foul language & racist hatred spewed from the mouths and actions of these very unpopular & unrepresentative Congresswomen, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I can tell you that they have made Israel feel abandoned by the U.S.

So sad to see the Democrats sticking up for people who speak so badly of our Country and who, in addition, hate Israel with a true and unbridled passion. Whenever confronted, they call their adversaries, including Nancy Pelosi, “RACIST.” Their disgusting language.....

....and the many terrible things they say about the United States must not be allowed to go unchallenged. If the Democrat Party wants to continue to condone such disgraceful behavior, then we look even more forward to seeing you at the ballot box in 2020!
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:31 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So, Gorka has had multiple legal problems. On the other hand, I know of no similar legal problems for Ilhan Omar
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Because you haven't paid attention.
Oops. That's a claim. We might be nearing the end of the cycle.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:32 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
When will the Radical Left Congresswomen apologize to our Country, the people of Israel and even to the Office of the President, for the foul language they have used, and the terrible things they have said. So many people are angry at them & their horrible & disgusting actions!
Ooh! Foul language and terrible things. Tell me more!


Nope. Just keeps repeating that they exist, and telling people how to think and feel about it.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:37 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
does it?

I'm curious how.
This very thread is really just complaining about Trump being uncivil.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:40 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This very thread is really just complaining about Trump being uncivil.
No it's about him being racist. Please try and keep up.

Before you begin I care not about whatever stalling question you have as a follow up. No I will not debate the difference between racism and mere generic "incivility" with you.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:41 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Nope:




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anne_MacLeod_Trump

edited to add....

Unless you're only considering patrilineal lineage
To be fair to Belz..., I would've said grandfather and Germany if I hadn't just read an article mentioning his Scottish mother.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:41 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
If I was Omar, I'd be hugely concerned about my personal safety right now.
What do you mean "right now"? She's been subject to death threats even before Trump's "send her back" rhetoric.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-ocasio-cortez
Donald Trump and Fox News are coming under fire for contributing to a climate of Islamophobia, following the arrest of a supporter of the president who threatened to kill Ilhan Omar...Patrick Carlineo, from Addison, New York, was arrested on Friday and charged with making a threatening phone call to Omarís office.

(This happened back in April 2019.)

Remember the claims made by Trump supporters about how "violent" the democrats are? Seems they tend to ignore this sort of thing.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:44 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
To be fair to Belz..., I would've said grandfather and Germany if I hadn't just read an article mentioning his Scottish mother.
I reckon it was deliberate and that I was too dim to pick up on it.

Belz... was making the point that women don't matter.
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Old 19th July 2019, 08:46 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I reckon it was deliberate and that I was too dim to pick up on it.

Belz... was making the point that women don't matter.
No, no. I'm not that clever. I didn't know about his mom, and used a blatant sexist comment to cover my ass.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:01 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This very thread is really just complaining about Trump being uncivil.
no.
Being racist isn't just being uncivil.
But nice try for trying to frame it that way.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:02 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No it's about him being racist. Please try and keep up.
And how was he racist? By being uncivil.

It doesn't matter if someone sits there thinking racist thoughts in their heads but doing nothing. What matters is actions. And the action in question was just incivility. The alleged motive is racism, but why would the motive even matter if the action itself weren't a problem?

Quote:
Before you begin I care not about whatever stalling question you have as a follow up. No I will not debate the difference between racism and mere generic "incivility" with you.
These are not separate categories, they are overlapping ones, obviously. Lynching is racism, but it's also violence, not incivility. Saying the n-word is racism and uncivil. Other forms of incivility may not be racist. For the purposes of this sub-discussion, it doesn't matter if Trump was also racist, it was still incivility. It wasn't violence, for example.

So complaints about what Trump said are still just complaints about incivility, whether or not the motive behind that incivility is racism, and whether or not your motive for complaining about that incivility is because of racism.

And because you'll likely misunderstand this if I don't make it explicit, note that I'm not even saying it's wrong to complain about incivility. I'm not even claiming that it's wrong to have a special interest in racist incivility in particular. But the claim was made, and not by me, that if you're arguing about incivility then you've conceded the "actual case", whatever that may be. I'm merely pointing out the implication of such a position. Feel free to not agree about incivility being irrelevant.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:03 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no.
Being racist isn't just being uncivil.
But nice try for trying to frame it that way.
Thought crimes it is, then.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:04 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Oops. That's a claim. We might be nearing the end of the cycle.
There'll be sooper-seekrit proof, just like there was that it was Obama who is the thin-skinned narcissist.

I can't wait for Trump's next rally. "Lock her up" is well nigh inevitable. And he'll stand there and gloat then say the next day he didn't approve of it.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:07 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And how was he racist? By being uncivil.

It doesn't matter if someone sits there thinking racist thoughts in their heads but doing nothing. What matters is actions. And the action in question was just incivility. The alleged motive is racism, but why would the motive even matter if the action itself weren't a problem?
Oh what dishonest crap.

NOTHING is racist via this logic. "Trump's not racist, he didn't fill out the official 'I am doing this for reasons of racism' form when telling 4 non-white women to go back where they came from so it's technically incivility."
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:07 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And how was he racist? By being uncivil.
- "You murdered him!"
- "And how did I murder him? By punching him. You're condeming me to life in prison for punching a man!"
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:09 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And how was he racist? By being uncivil.

It doesn't matter if someone sits there thinking racist thoughts in their heads but doing nothing. What matters is actions. And the action in question was just incivility. The alleged motive is racism, but why would the motive even matter if the action itself weren't a problem?



These are not separate categories, they are overlapping ones, obviously. Lynching is racism, but it's also violence, not incivility. Saying the n-word is racism and uncivil. Other forms of incivility may not be racist. For the purposes of this sub-discussion, it doesn't matter if Trump was also racist, it was still incivility. It wasn't violence, for example.

So complaints about what Trump said are still just complaints about incivility, whether or not the motive behind that incivility is racism, and whether or not your motive for complaining about that incivility is because of racism.

And because you'll likely misunderstand this if I don't make it explicit, note that I'm not even saying it's wrong to complain about incivility. I'm not even claiming that it's wrong to have a special interest in racist incivility in particular. But the claim was made, and not by me, that if you're arguing about incivility then you've conceded the "actual case", whatever that may be. I'm merely pointing out the implication of such a position. Feel free to not agree about incivility being irrelevant.
Let's cut to the chase. Do you think it's appropriate and reasonable for the President of the United States to suggest that four of his political opponents ought to go back where they "came from"?

If not, all your fanciful defenses are irrelevant. We all agree that what he's done is inappropriate and perhaps all that's left is to come to a conclusion of how grossly inappropriate it was.

If, on the other hand, you find his comments perfectly reasonable and appropriate, say so clearly and explicitly so that we can proceed in full understanding of your opinion.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:11 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It doesn't matter if someone sits there thinking racist thoughts in their heads but doing nothing.
It doesn't matter to you. If you don't care whether or not a racist is in the White House, then you are free to bow out of this thread and start one of your own. Of course, you'd have to state your case more clearly, so this is unlikely to occur.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:11 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh what dishonest crap.

NOTHING is racist via this logic. "Trump's not racist, he didn't fill out the official 'I am doing this for reasons of racism' form when telling 4 non-white women to go back where they came from so it's technically incivility."
This is the method behind the madness. Note that we are no longer talking about what an ass Trump is, but rather questioning whether racism actually even exists* in the first place. The topic is being shifted. The trolling is working.



* and if it does, it's the people who are calling Trump racist who are the actual racists
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:19 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
This is the method behind the madness. Note that we are no longer talking about what an ass Trump is, but rather questioning whether racism actually even exists* in the first place. The topic is being shifted. The trolling is working.



* and if it does, it's the people who are calling Trump racist who are the actual racists
"My side isn't wrong until you define to my impossible standards the exact kind of wrong they are" is not new to me. I recognize it for what it is.
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Last edited by JoeMorgue; 19th July 2019 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:20 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Interesting prediction, here. I think it's likely true. We'll see.
Quote:
Quote:Steve Silberman
This is what will happen: Trump's cultists will begin chanting "Send her back! Send her back!" at his next rally. He'll lean back and crack that goofy "I'm being naughty now!" grin and say "No, no - no, no - they say you're not supposed to say that anymore. It's not PC." [Cheers]
Yes, I think that's absolutely what will happen. Good prediction!
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:20 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"My side isn't wrong until you define to my standards the exact kind of technically speaking wrong they are" is not new to me. I recognize it for what it is.
Sure, we all understand you're a man of keen insight. You keep telling us.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:26 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sure, we all understand you're a man of keen insight. You keep telling us.
Not quite sure that was warranted. You're not magically pulling real discussion out of anyone with anymore efficiency then I am.

Both of us are spinning our wheels talking "at" people who are impossible to talk "to" more often then not. The only alternative is leaving them to their soapboxes.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:31 AM   #231
Upchurch
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The only alternative is leaving them to their soapboxes.
Well, there are a few other options. One involves using a certain form tool and then continuing with the main topic of conversation more or less unimpeded.

Or, one could just ignore off-topic trolling efforts and continue with the main topic of conversation more or less unimpeded.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:33 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Well, there are a few other options. One involves using a certain form tool and then continuing with the main topic of conversation more or less unimpeded.

Or, one could just ignore off-topic trolling efforts and continue with the main topic of conversation more or less unimpeded.
Without the trolls there's no topic, because we're all in agreement, so there's nothing to talk about.

We can't ignore the trolls and continue the topic.
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- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:40 AM   #233
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Without the trolls there's no topic, because we're all in agreement, so there's nothing to talk about.

We can't ignore the trolls and continue the topic.
disagree.

when we agree on the big issues, we can discuss the details and actually figure some stuff out.
When you have to fight of trolls, nothing really gets done - which is exactly what the trolls try to achieve.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:49 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
disagree.

when we agree on the big issues, we can discuss the details and actually figure some stuff out.
When you have to fight of trolls, nothing really gets done - which is exactly what the trolls try to achieve.
This. With trolls, we argue about whether racism is real, without it, we might be discussing Trump's endgame with this or if it is merely distraction. Or maybe something else.

ETA: heck, we could even have actual dissenting opinions that isn't being burried in this BS.
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Old 19th July 2019, 09:59 AM   #235
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Here is the frustrating thing for me. Trump, again, is being evil, uncivil, outrageous. Another thing to add to the list of his 'most-vile'.

And, what will come of it? Nothing. It will just add to the list of disgusting comments. Next week, or today, he will open his mouth and his twitter again to another inappropriate comment. And then, another. But nothing will really change.
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Old 19th July 2019, 10:07 AM   #236
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Trump supporting Diamond and Silkģ

Tweeted this support for the presidents 'words'

Quote:
Nancy Pelosi said the WORDS that the President used were racist. But those same words are in the Dictionary. Does that mean that the Dictionary is now racist? Should all Dictionaries be banned since Democrats are offended by words? #TDS
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Old 19th July 2019, 10:12 AM   #237
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump supporting Diamond and Silkģ

Tweeted this support for the presidents 'words'
that must be fake
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Old 19th July 2019, 10:19 AM   #238
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You would think so but they met the Pres in the Oval Office and he says good things about them.
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Old 19th July 2019, 10:22 AM   #239
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Trump said

Minnesota, a State which I will win in #2020 because they can’t stand her and her hatred of our Country, and they appreciate all that I have done for them[/quote]

Omar received 78 percent of the vote in her Minneapolis district last year.

Does he know how it works?
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Old 19th July 2019, 10:23 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no.
Being racist isn't just being uncivil.
But nice try for trying to frame it that way.
Yup, because the gambit there is "democrats are also being uncivil" to "everyone is doing it/both sides are the same" and so "this is normal."
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