ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags republican party

Reply
Old 9th August 2019, 08:29 AM   #41
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,448
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Are the Democrats really any better off? Like it or not, a whole lot of why we have a Trump Presidency was due to Democratic pro Hillary complacency. It was assumed she would win so many stayed home and didnt vote. Now they are some of the loudest anti Trump whiners.

Since this they have not taken personal responsibility for the fact imo, Bernie was the better Candidate at the time, and they blocked him in favor of another Clinton, which really wasn't any better a choice.
Keep in mind that the subject of this thread wasn't just about winning elections; it was about the corruption of the Republican party. (Their willingness to engage in racist policies, the influence on the party by foreign entities like Russia, the use of dirty tricks such as gerrymandering, voter suppression, and obstructionism, their willingness to ignore illegal and/or immoral behavior in their party.)

At this point, there is no comparison between the Democrats and Republicans in this regard.... The republicans have gone off the deep end, and whatever minor scandals the Democrats have had pale in comparison to what the Republicans are doing. So the question is: Can the Republicans get rid of some or all of the corruption that has infiltrated their party. (Right now, the answer seems to be 'no'. The infection has been allowed to fester far too long.)

Secondly... if you want to talk about electoral success: yes, Clinton lost the last election. Yes it was due in part to the Democrats (their leaders and the voters) being too complacent. But then, they also lost in part because of Russian interference. But, that was just one election. Long term, there are certain things that favor their party: Demographic shifts (minorities making up a larger part of the electorate) and the migration of people from rural to urban areas will hopefully give them more chance of success in future elections. The question then becomes whether those changes will be enough to overcome the dirty tricks that the Republicans engage in (such as accepting Russian assistance, voter suppression.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th August 2019, 12:21 PM   #42
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Are the Democrats really any better off? Like it or not, a whole lot of why we have a Trump Presidency was due to Democratic pro Hillary complacency. It was assumed she would win so many stayed home and didnt vote. Now they are some of the loudest anti Trump whiners.

Since this they have not taken personal responsibility for the fact imo, Bernie was the better Candidate at the time, and they blocked him in favor of another Clinton, which really wasn't any better a choice.
It's off topic so I will only say, your version of reality doesn't match the evidence. It does, however, demonstrate you probably drank the Russian koolaid.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th August 2019, 02:11 PM   #43
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,772
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's off topic so I will only say, your version of reality doesn't match the evidence. It does, however, demonstrate you probably drank the Russian koolaid.
You're right. He didn't even mention the millions of illegal votes for Hillary.
Babbylonian is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 09:00 AM   #44
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
I want to say no, but the facts of the entrenched two-party system ensures that the Republican Party or a party like it will live on.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 09:14 AM   #45
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,713
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I want to say no, but the facts of the entrenched two-party system ensures that the Republican Party or a party like it will live on.
I don't think Republican Party owners will have any trouble renouncing and disowning Trump if he loses -- if they were a party built on principle, we wouldn't have Trump in the first place -- but it will take some time to rebuild credibility.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 09:19 AM   #46
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
I don't think Republican Party owners will have any trouble renouncing and disowning Trump if he loses -- if they were a party built on principle, we wouldn't have Trump in the first place -- but it will take some time to rebuild credibility.
The Republican Party lost credibility with me during the GW Bush years. Their credibility was further **** upon during the Obama years. Trump has nuked any smattering of credibility that might have remained.

I don’t expect them to regain credibility (as far as I am concerned) within my lifetime.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 09:34 AM   #47
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,552
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The Republican Party lost credibility with me during the GW Bush years. Their credibility was further **** upon during the Obama years. Trump has nuked any smattering of credibility that might have remained.

I don’t expect them to regain credibility (as far as I am concerned) within my lifetime.
Agreed.

Further, I don't think they need credibility. Not in the normal sense of that word. They just need to be seen as ******** on libs and pissing of dems. So long as they have that covered, nothing else really matters to their base.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 09:42 AM   #48
ArchSas
Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Agreed.

Further, I don't think they need credibility. Not in the normal sense of that word. They just need to be seen as ******** on libs and pissing of dems. So long as they have that covered, nothing else really matters to their base.
Yep, credibility isn't the goal anymore. Conservatism in the US has been moving increasingly in the direction of Postmodern Conservatism. What most people consider credibility doesn't matter to them anymore, it's all about ideology and narrative for them now.

Last edited by ArchSas; 14th August 2019 at 09:52 AM.
ArchSas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 10:12 AM   #49
rockysmith76
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
Yep, credibility isn't the goal anymore. Conservatism in the US has been moving increasingly in the direction of Postmodern Conservatism. What most people consider credibility doesn't matter to them anymore, it's all about ideology and narrative for them now.
Where as liberals are the unsolicited answer to a question noone asked.
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 10:23 AM   #50
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,713
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Where as liberals are the unsolicited answer to a question noone asked.
Nobody in the "I've got mine" crowd, maybe.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 10:33 AM   #51
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Agreed.

Further, I don't think they need credibility. Not in the normal sense of that word. They just need to be seen as ******** on libs and pissing of dems. So long as they have that covered, nothing else really matters to their base.
I agree. I would add that the Dems/Libs political ineptitude has prevented them from countering and undermining Republican attacks to that end.

Republicans are malevolent and the Dems and inept. I’ve already accepted that we are all ******.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 10:35 AM   #52
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,794
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The Republican Party lost credibility with me during the GW Bush years. Their credibility was further **** upon during the Obama years. Trump has nuked any smattering of credibility that might have remained.
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment. He's a non-ideological self-centered demagogue who put an R next to his name in 2015 because that's where the fun was.

Now he's like a dog who caught the car he was chasing. What's he supposed to do now? Not even the dog really knows. You're blaming the car's owner for having this angry mutt clamped to their bumper.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:05 AM   #53
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,714
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment.
And yet the GOP is following him like lap dogs.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:08 AM   #54
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,448
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party.
Yes he is.

From: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/17/repu...psos-poll.html
The national survey, conducted on Monday and Tuesday after Trump told the lawmakers they should “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” showed his net approval among members of his Republican Party rose by 5 percentage points to 72%...

If you are getting almost 3/4s of the voters in your party supporting you, its a pretty safe bet that you're "representative of the republican party". And of course opposition to Trump among Republican congress-critters is pretty non-existent.

The fact is, the republican party as of late can be seen as a bastion of racism, of opportunism, of dirty tricks, of ignorance, and they've been that way for years before Trump joined the primaries. Yet Trump fits that description pretty well.
Quote:
He's not an ideological conservative.
Yet he has championed huge tax cuts, military expansion, anti-environmentalist policies, has called for the rollback of abortion rights, and has attacked the LGBTQ community. Sounds pretty much like an 'ideological conservative' to me.

And none of the other supposed 'ideological conservatives' in congress seemed to care about the huge increase in the deficit that was a result of their tax cuts, nor have they acted to prevent Trump from taking money from the Military to fund his border wall.

Maybe your problem is assuming that Republicans=Ideological conservatives, when the reality is that Republicans=racist anti-science scum bags.
Quote:
He's not part of the GOP establishment.
He is now.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:32 AM   #55
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And yet the GOP is following him like lap dogs.
This.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:34 AM   #56
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 47,114
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
This.
Also he literally does represent the republican party, that was the entire point of the primaries he won. They chose him and they support him.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:40 AM   #57
ahhell
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,467
At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:42 AM   #58
ahhell
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,467
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
This.
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Also he literally does represent the republican party, that was the entire point of the primaries he won. They chose him and they support him.
I am still surprised at how skeptics are remain ignorant of basic human psychology.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:52 AM   #59
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,713
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.
I expect it will be more like the rebranding that corporations do when they screw up. After a while, people forget.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 11:55 AM   #60
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,714
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.
Democratic Party.

Quote:
I am still surprised at how skeptics are remain ignorant of basic human psychology.
What do you mean?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:02 PM   #61
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party.
How about Steve King? Is he representative of the Republican Party? He's been a member of said party for decades.

Most recently, as in this week, he had such intelligent statements as:

Originally Posted by King
"What if we went back through all the family trees and just pulled out anyone who was a product of rape or incest? Would there be any population of the world left if we did that?"

“Considering all the wars and all the rapes and pillages that happened throughout all these different nations, I know that I can't say that I was not a part of a product of that."
Which members are we picking and choosing as being representative? Do you even think a single GOP member will come out against this statement?

Even here there will be a few GOP supporters that'll say something like, "Well, he's not wrong. He makes a good point."
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:07 PM   #62
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,714
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
How about Steve King? Is he representative of the Republican Party? He's been a member of said party for decades.

Most recently, as in this week, he had such intelligent statements as:



Which members are we picking and choosing as being representative? Do you even think a single GOP member will come out against this statement?

Even here there will be a few GOP supporters that'll say something like, "Well, he's not wrong. He makes a good point."
Well he's probably not wrong, in a way. The issue is that it doesn't change anything about rape being wrong.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:10 PM   #63
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well he's probably not wrong, in a way. The issue is that it doesn't change anything about rape being wrong.
LoL ANY population left? I have no idea what I would even search for to find out "population as a result of incest or rape", but I bet it wouldn't be 7 billion.

ETA: Mind you, he also stated that he's a product of rape or incest. Even if true, it's odd ass statement to make.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

Last edited by plague311; 14th August 2019 at 12:12 PM.
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:16 PM   #64
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,406
Given Steve King history I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of those "Anything to keep the darkies from outbreeding us" types.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:18 PM   #65
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,714
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL ANY population left? I have no idea what I would even search for to find out "population as a result of incest or rape", but I bet it wouldn't be 7 billion.
I think he means, including ancestors. You know, like how everyone in Europe is a descendant of Charlemagne?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:20 PM   #66
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I think he means, including ancestors. You know, like how everyone in Europe is a descendant of Charlemagne?
I guess anything is possible.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:20 PM   #67
Tony
Penultimate Amazing
 
Tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
At one point the Democrat Party was literally the party of slavery. The seem to have moved on which implies that their is a chance for the GOP as well.

More recently, the Democrat Party was literally the party of jim crow too.
What’s your point?
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain
Tony is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:22 PM   #68
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,406
If I could literally make one change to American history to prevent the most pointless hijacks in political threads I would have made the Democratic and Republican parties either switch names or adopt totally new ones after the "Southern Democrat / Dixiecrat" cultural shift so "But you know Lincoln was a Republican" or one of another handful of variations wouldn't get dropped into every political discussion.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:24 PM   #69
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If I could literally make one change to American history to prevent the most pointless hijacks in political threads I would have made the Democratic and Republican parties either switch names or adopt totally new ones after the "Southern Democrat / Dixiecrat" cultural shift so "But you know Lincoln was a Republican" or one of another handful of variations wouldn't get dropped into every political discussion.
Really? That's the change you'd make?

...I mean, not to Godwin or anything LoL.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:28 PM   #70
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,448
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
How about Steve King? Is he representative of the Republican Party? He's been a member of said party for decades.

Most recently, as in this week, he had such intelligent statements as:

"What if we went back through all the family trees and just pulled out anyone who was a product of rape or incest? Would there be any population of the world left if we did that?"

“Considering all the wars and all the rapes and pillages that happened throughout all these different nations, I know that I can't say that I was not a part of a product of that."

Which members are we picking and choosing as being representative? Do you even think a single GOP member will come out against this statement?
A little bit of context for that quote...

His statement was done not as a justification for rape, but as a rational for banning all abortion. Often, anti-abortionists will make exceptions for rape/incest, but King wants things to be much more restrictive... you're a woman who's sexually assaulted? For the next 9 months you get to carry the child of your attacker.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ncest-abortion

The problem with his argument is that he is assuming that rape would have been necessary for women to have gotten pregnant in the past, whereas in reality it would have likely just delayed their decision to have children.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:30 PM   #71
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
A little bit of context for that quote...

His statement was done not as a justification for rape, but as a rational for banning all abortion. Often, anti-abortionists will make exceptions for rape/incest, but King wants things to be much more restrictive... you're a woman who's sexually assaulted? For the next 9 months you get to carry the child of your attacker.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ncest-abortion

The problem with his argument is that he is assuming that rape would have been necessary for women to have gotten pregnant in the past, whereas in reality it would have likely just delayed their decision to have children.
Yeah, in that link I had he also was quoted as saying the standard anti-abortion line "don't make the child pay for the sins of the mother and the father."
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:32 PM   #72
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 36,794
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
How about Steve King? Is he representative of the Republican Party? He's been a member of said party for decades.

Most recently, as in this week, he had such intelligent statements as:



Which members are we picking and choosing as being representative? Do you even think a single GOP member will come out against this statement?

Even here there will be a few GOP supporters that'll say something like, "Well, he's not wrong. He makes a good point."
Seems like you have it all figured out. Not sure what you need me for.

Are you stipulating that Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 12:38 PM   #73
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seems like you have it all figured out. Not sure what you need me for.

Are you stipulating that Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party?
Sometimes I just don't know what to say around here.

Of course I'm not stipulating that. I'm trying to figure who, in your book, IS from the GOP establishment? If Trump isn't, and he's got 70%+ of support from the party, is King? Is Herd? Who?
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 01:09 PM   #74
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,552
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment. He's a non-ideological self-centered demagogue who put an R next to his name in 2015 because that's where the fun was.

Now he's like a dog who caught the car he was chasing. What's he supposed to do now? Not even the dog really knows. You're blaming the car's owner for having this angry mutt clamped to their bumper.
No, we're blaming the car's owner for saying: well you caught us so I guess it's your car now. Where we going?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 02:59 PM   #75
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,759
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment. He's a non-ideological self-centered demagogue who put an R next to his name in 2015 because that's where the fun was.
Like it or not, he's the leader of the GOP. Perhaps you think that the conservatives who stoop to embrace Trump are somehow still above him. Think again.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Now he's like a dog who caught the car he was chasing. What's he supposed to do now? Not even the dog really knows. You're blaming the car's owner for having this angry mutt clamped to their bumper.
Yeah, that analogy doesn't work for me. How about if your dog kills and eats children, and it's still your dog. Disgusting, right? Welcome to the GOP under Trump. They could've put the dog down, but it wasn't convenient to do so. What a bunch of dickholes. You can imagine that your position is not hopeless and horrible, but you'd be wrong.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde
eerok is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 03:54 PM   #76
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31,607
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment.
I suspect he’s closer than you think. It’s not like that “small government” schtick is real.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 04:38 PM   #77
Cabbage
Graduate Poster
 
Cabbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,349
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment. He's a non-ideological self-centered demagogue who put an R next to his name in 2015 because that's where the fun was.

Now he's like a dog who caught the car he was chasing. What's he supposed to do now? Not even the dog really knows. You're blaming the car's owner for having this angry mutt clamped to their bumper.

So? It's a legitimate blame since the car's owner smeared bacon grease on his bumper.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 04:40 PM   #78
Cabbage
Graduate Poster
 
Cabbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,349
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't get the "Trump" bit. Donald Trump isn't really representative of the Republican Party. He's not an ideological conservative. He's not part of the GOP establishment. He's a non-ideological self-centered demagogue who put an R next to his name in 2015 because that's where the fun was.

Now he's like a dog who caught the car he was chasing. What's he supposed to do now? Not even the dog really knows. You're blaming the car's owner for having this angry mutt clamped to their bumper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 04:44 PM   #79
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,552
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I want to say no, but the facts of the entrenched two-party system ensures that the Republican Party or a party like it will live on.
You forget, the GOP came into existence because one of the two Major parties died....(the Whigs in the early 1850'S).
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2019, 05:00 PM   #80
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,258
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If I could literally make one change to American history to prevent the most pointless hijacks in political threads I would have made the Democratic and Republican parties either switch names or adopt totally new ones after the "Southern Democrat / Dixiecrat" cultural shift so "But you know Lincoln was a Republican" or one of another handful of variations wouldn't get dropped into every political discussion.
Hallelujah to that! I'm so sick of ignorant Republicans claiming they're the 'Party of Lincoln". Like hell they are. It's about as accurate as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) actually being a democratic republic.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:42 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.