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Tags donald trump , Elijah Cummings , racism charges , racism issues

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Old 7th August 2019, 01:08 PM   #161
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Seemed to be suggesting that Perth* was a chocolate starfish sort of place.

* - presumably Perth WA because no-one feels that strongly about Perth, Perth and Kinross
Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Old USENET reference, I believe : http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/afw/#perth

Damn but I miss alt.usenet.kooks ...
O....K....
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Old 7th August 2019, 01:32 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
O....K....
Short(ish) version : way back in the days of USENET there was a group called alt.fan.warlord which specialized in making fun of people with overly large, garish signature blocks, often festooned with horrible ASCII art. One of the recurring targets for some reason were people with signatures which had large maps of Australia in them, and the claim was that the city most often marked on those maps was Perth. As time went on the joke became taking someone's mess of an attempt at an ASCII art car or dog or whatever from their signature block, and dropping in a random asterisk with an arrow pointed at it and labeled as Perth.

example (stock ASCII art of a cat which gets messed up when trying to copy/paste) :

_._ _,-'""`-._
(,-.`._,'( |\`-/|
`-.-' \ )-`( , o o)
`- \`_`" *<---Perth

Basically a way of saying "your attempt at putting an ASCII topless Jerry Ryan in your signature is so awful it looks more like a map of Australia, and you'd neglected to point our where Perth was.

</derail>

Last edited by Joe Random; 7th August 2019 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 7th August 2019, 05:39 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Old USENET reference, I believe : http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/afw/#perth

Damn but I miss alt.usenet.kooks ...
The good old days of alt.usenet.conspiracy. That was enormously entertaining.
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Old 7th August 2019, 05:47 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Corporate America today is very Woke. The legacy Left still continues to give lip-service about all the dangers of big corporations, but their hearts aren't in it anymore.



There is a simple way to test this.

1) The cops are racist and they are stopping and harassing black people more frequently because of their ingrained prejudice towards blacks.

2) The cops are engaged in pro-active policing measures to prevent crimes from occurring in the first place.

If pro-active policing or racial profiling(pick your euphemism or dysphemism) is ineffective and motivated only by racism, then when the police pull back from such a policy there won't be an uptick in the crime rate.

For instance, if there was a police department that was prejudiced against the Amish and were always pulling them over in their little buggies and frisking them for weapons and so forth. Then the community decided to rise up and tell the police to back off from harassing the Amish, there would be no uptick in the Amish crime rate.

So what happened after the success of Black Lives Matter in place like Chicago and Baltimore? The cops curtailed their pro-active policing measures and the crime right skyrocketed. This shows that their motivation was to prevent crimes from occurring in the first place. It was not to harass black people for no reason. Now if the crime rate did not surge, then you could make the case that their pro-active policing measures were racially discriminatory and ineffectual. But that did not happen.




Gun violence is a politically correct term used by the Left. People are violent. Guns are an inanimate objects. The Left uses this term to absolve people of responsibility and to give the impression that there is some exogenous factor at work. They want people to think about "gun violence" in the same way people think about tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and floods. Some areas are more prone to hurricanes and some places are more prone to gun violence. It is a way to remove agency from the people.

p.s. You don't need a Stop the Violence march in Mayberry now do you?



As Candace Owens has stated, Democrats have never cared about black lives, only about black votes. What exactly have black people gained by voting 90% for Democrats for decades?



Steve Sailer coined the term HBD for Human Biodiversity. These are the topics that he is interested in and writes about. He normally posts over 1,000 blog entries per year so he is quite prolific. I don't think he has even written on "white supremacy" which is largely just a pejorative used by people to avoid an honest debate.

p.s. Recently he was wondering if the south Slavs are the most athletic white people.




You asked what city do I think represents conservative ideals the best. I answered Provo, Utah. Now there are probably very white towns in places like Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. But you asked for conservative ideals, not liberal ones.



It is possible they were saying these things because they were true at the time. The English and the Irish have had a long, though not always harmonious, history together. If you asked the people of England, from say the 16th to the 19th century, what they thought of the Irish, it would probably be quite derogatory.
Well, you sort of stepped in with the bolded remark, since I of Irish descent.
(Irish German actually,most boring ethnic group in America).

But I think you furnish a good example of "respectable" Republicans who are now defending bigots and racists because they have become politically dependent on them, and can't figure out a way to end the dependacy.

And you know with that remark about Provo, an almost lilly white town, you are saying that only whites can be "real" Conservatives.
And another one outs himself....
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Last edited by dudalb; 7th August 2019 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 7th August 2019, 05:51 PM   #165
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It's not a coincidence that a great many free market/limited government advocates are now calling themselves "Libertarians" because they cannot stomach what the Conservative movement has become.
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Old 7th August 2019, 07:08 PM   #166
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Quote:
Democrats have never cared about black lives, only about black votes.
A standard winger meme and really ridiculous. It would only make sense if Democratic officials and office holders were all or nearly all white. The party is not. As an example, since the 1970s there have been over one hundred fifteen African-Americans elected to Congress and over one hundred ten of them were Democrats. Many black Democrats elected to state, county and city governments. Black Democrats are a majority in some districts and control those districts. On a national level there are black Democrats in policy-making positions. They are a full-fledged, integral part of the Democratic Party (as hard as that may be for wingers to comprehend).

Comments about black people being foolish to give 90% of their votes to the Democratic Party in exchange for nothing actually reveals the myopic world view of those who make those comments. They are white people who are so accustomed to dealing only with other white people they take it for granted that is the way everywhere. Only it's not.

I've been a registered Democrat for many years. Heck, we even ran a black man for President of the United States. Twice!
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Old 7th August 2019, 08:57 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
A standard winger meme and really ridiculous. It would only make sense if Democratic officials and office holders were all or nearly all white. The party is not.
Not since that purge, anyways.
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Old 7th August 2019, 11:03 PM   #168
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The purge of racists who were lured away by the GOP?
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Old 8th August 2019, 12:15 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Corporate America today is very Woke. The legacy Left still continues to give lip-service about all the dangers of big corporations, but their hearts aren't in it anymore.



There is a simple way to test this.

1) The cops are racist and they are sto
I don't think you get what I'm saying.

Most of the worst racists are the people who have subconcious ideas that burst to the surface when they see a black person with braids, or a do-rag, or who doesn't smile enough, or whose voice is "too low". And this one includes a lot of white liberals that suddenly fret when there are black kids in the same schools as their kids.

But the folks who are just outright hostile, most of us can smell a mile away.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 8th August 2019 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 8th August 2019, 06:46 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
But Steve Sailer is doing a thesis on South Slavian track athletes!

Last edited by zooterkin; 8th August 2019 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 8th August 2019, 06:57 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The good old days of alt.usenet.conspiracy. That was enormously entertaining.
True story : poking fun at people in alt.usenet.kooks is what introduced me to skepticism.

In the mid 90s or so AUK was getting a lot of cross posting fun with alt.astrology and a certain Earl Gordon Curley. Eventually they started cross posting with sci.skeptic and the legal wranglings between EGC and Randi came out. That caused me to lurk more in sci.skeptic and the old JREF web board. Started picking up Randi's books at that point.

And so it was that hanging out in a group which regularly cross posted with other groups like alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk and alt.fan.karl.maldens.nose introduced me to critical thinking and skepticism.

</more derail>
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Old 8th August 2019, 07:46 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
The purge of racists who were lured away by the GOP?
I see you haven't been keeping up with the news.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...night-massacre
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Old 8th August 2019, 07:52 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I see you haven't been keeping up with the news.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...night-massacre
Intimating that a purge of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee leadership substantially changes the racial make up of "Democratic officials and office holders" makes no sense, whether you are up on political news or not.

ETA - Democratic office-holders, by way of illustration:

Seats in the Senate
45 / 100
Seats in the House
235 / 435
State Governorships
23 / 50
State Upper Chamber Seats
874 / 1,972
State Lower Chamber Seats
2,579 / 5,411
Total State Legislature Seats
3,453 / 7,366
Territorial Governorships
4 / 6
Territorial Upper Chamber Seats
31 / 97

Last edited by carlitos; 8th August 2019 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 8th August 2019, 07:58 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Intimating that a purge of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee leadership substantially changes the racial make up of "Democratic officials and office holders" makes no sense, whether you are up on political news or not.
True, the numbers aren't really the significant feature. The reason for the purge, however, very much is.
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Old 8th August 2019, 09:12 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
True, the numbers aren't really the significant feature. The reason for the purge, however, very much is.
Curious, your source states that 5 people resigned over discontent with the Chairperson.
Originally Posted by your source
According to one House Democrat, Bustos made promises to lawmakers of all stripes in her bid to take the reins from Rep. Ben Ray Luján (D-N.M.) and those competing pledges are a major reason for the fallout she and the committee are experiencing only seven months after she took over as chair.

“It’s the Monday Night Massacre at DCCC,” one lawmaker said. “Cheri campaigned as all things to all people, telling Blue Dogs one thing, telling progressives another. So inevitably once in office she would disappoint them.”
This doesn't have quite the ominous spin you're giving it. In your opinion what is the reason for the resignations, and can you support that opinion?
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Old 8th August 2019, 01:46 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Steve Sailer coined the term HBD for Human Biodiversity. These are the topics that he is interested in and writes about. He normally posts over 1,000 blog entries per year so he is quite prolific. I don't think he has even written on "white supremacy" which is largely just a pejorative used by people to avoid an honest debate.
Yes, by all means, let's have an honest debate.

Steve Sailer - whose work you reference in the OP - characterizes black people as requiring "stricter moral guidance" because of their "poorer native judgement".

Do you agree?
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Old 8th August 2019, 04:00 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, by all means, let's have an honest debate.

Steve Sailer - whose work you reference in the OP - characterizes black people as requiring "stricter moral guidance" because of their "poorer native judgement".

Do you agree?

That would make Steve Sailer a racist, yes?
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Old 8th August 2019, 06:43 PM   #178
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Another favorite winger meme is, "The Democratic Party is the most racist party and liberals are the real racists. They only pretend not to be."

This one's been around a long time. I used to discuss this with a guy I was in business with back in the Reagan era. And he loved Reagan! He used to say the same kinds of things they're saying today. He said it was infuriating to hear Democrats talk about black rights or inner cities or better schools when in reality Democrats probably hated black people more than anyone else. I finally realized, he was so lacking in anything approaching compassion or empathy, he was so callous and uncaring about other people -- in fact he used to brag about it -- that it was just impossible for him to believe not everyone was like him. I realized after a while, he was really and truly convinced he was right. In his world compassion and empathy, a regard for fairness, those things just didn't exist. It was strictly, "What's in it for me?" It infuriated him that "liberals" tried to pretend they were "different." In his mind, that made them "worse."

It was beyond him to even have a glimmer that maybe not everyone felt the same way he did. He was convinced Democratic politicians only pretended to be concerned with the plight of black Americans in order to get their vote. In his mind, that was extremely cruel and only possible because those Democratic politicians had even less regard for black people then he did.

If he's still around I know he's loving Trump.
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Old 8th August 2019, 07:19 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Well, you sort of stepped in with the bolded remark, since I of Irish descent.
(Irish German actually,most boring ethnic group in America).

And you know with that remark about Provo, an almost lilly white town, you are saying that only whites can be "real" Conservatives.
And another one outs himself....
The point I was making was that the English had certain opinions of the Irish dating back centuries. When the Irish came to America, many Americans had come to share these same sentiments on the Irish. So it is likely these opinions were based on real experiences with the Irish.

There are probably many "lily white towns" in America. I was asked which one best represents conservative ideals. I answered Provo, Utah. Many liberals may view Portland, Oregon as a liberal ideal. It is 76% white.

Actually, there are many liberals of all races, who believe that only whites can be "real conservatives". Liberals will call black conservatives Uncle Toms, tokens, sellouts, traitors or "black white supremacists". Why do they do this unless they associate whiteness with conservatism?

Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
A standard winger meme and really ridiculous. It would only make sense if Democratic officials and office holders were all or nearly all white. The party is not. As an example, since the 1970s there have been over one hundred fifteen African-Americans elected to Congress and over one hundred ten of them were Democrats. Many black Democrats elected to state, county and city governments. Black Democrats are a majority in some districts and control those districts.

Comments about black people being foolish to give 90% of their votes to the Democratic Party in exchange for nothing actually reveals the myopic world view of those who make those comments. They are white people who are so accustomed to dealing only with other white people they take it for granted that is the way everywhere. Only it's not.
It was Candace Owens who made the point that Democrats have never cared about black lives, only black votes. I don't necessarily share this same viewpoint. But the point still stands, how have blacks benefitted from all their years voting for Democrats? Baltimore is a black Democrat dominated city. How has black Democratic rule benefitted the average black in Baltimore?

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I don't think you get what I'm saying.

Most of the worst racists are the people who have subconcious ideas that burst to the surface when they see a black person with braids, or a do-rag, or who doesn't smile enough, or whose voice is "too low". And this one includes a lot of white liberals that suddenly fret when there are black kids in the same schools as their kids.
This is a possibility. But the specific issue here is the police and their interactions with the black community. If the police were really engaged in racist policing tactics as a matter of policy, which was ineffective and senseless, there would be no surge in the black crime rate when they pulled back from said tactics. But there was a huge surge in the crime rate after 2014.

Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
But Steve Sailer is doing a thesis on South Slavian track athletes!
He was remarking on the success of the Croatian soccer team, tennis player Novak Djokovic, and the high frequency of south Slavs in the NBA. He wasn't looking at track athletes.

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Yes, by all means, let's have an honest debate.

Steve Sailer - whose work you reference in the OP - characterizes black people as requiring "stricter moral guidance" because of their "poorer native judgement".

Do you agree?
In his column he was specifically referring to New Orleans' blacks. He wrote,

"Judging from their economic and educational statistics, New Orleans' blacks are not even an above-average group of African-Americans, such as you find in Atlanta or Seattle, but more like Miami's or Milwaukee's."

You can read his entire column here.
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Old 8th August 2019, 08:25 PM   #180
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Absolutely no such qualifier existed for the passage in which that statement appears:

Quote:
All this is now common parlance, more or less. What you won't hear, except from me, is that "Let the good times roll" is an especially risky message for African-Americans. The plain fact is that they tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.
Not "this group of African-Americans", the whole class.

But hey, the paragraph before makes a dig at cuisine (we've seen that paraded around here a lot...) and the second paragraph after it engages in some really fun projection on the part of the author insisting that in a diverse setting, everyone votes for their skin color over their principles.

Basically, we can safely call this article a steaming pile of ****.
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Old 8th August 2019, 09:59 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's not a coincidence that a great many free market/limited government advocates are now calling themselves "Libertarians" because they cannot stomach what the Conservative movement has become.
That is me in a nutshell (and since I am libertarian the analogy is apt)
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Old 8th August 2019, 10:56 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That would make Steve Sailer a racist, yes?
Yep.

(Not that this is a shock, Sailer's a notorious racist.)

Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Another favorite winger meme is, "The Democratic Party is the most racist party and liberals are the real racists. They only pretend not to be."

This one's been around a long time. I used to discuss this with a guy I was in business with back in the Reagan era. And he loved Reagan! He used to say the same kinds of things they're saying today. He said it was infuriating to hear Democrats talk about black rights or inner cities or better schools when in reality Democrats probably hated black people more than anyone else. I finally realized, he was so lacking in anything approaching compassion or empathy, he was so callous and uncaring about other people -- in fact he used to brag about it -- that it was just impossible for him to believe not everyone was like him. I realized after a while, he was really and truly convinced he was right. In his world compassion and empathy, a regard for fairness, those things just didn't exist. It was strictly, "What's in it for me?" It infuriated him that "liberals" tried to pretend they were "different." In his mind, that made them "worse."
I'm laughing, because of the tape of Reagan calling African people "monkeys" - or rather, the shocked reaction from people who used to talk about how great he was. My only response on Twitter was:

"We been knew." - African American saying.

Of course Reagan (Pro-Apartheid, anti-Civil Rights Act, anti-Voting Rights Act, anti-Fair Housing Act, anti-MLK Jr. Day, creator of the "Welfare Queen" myth, responsible for lack of investment in black communities, denied all loans to black farmers [see: Pigford settlement], among many other things) was a damn racist. What are these people surprised about?

Of course, many of them just didn't notice, more examples of my theory that many people, almost all white, in the US simply cannot spot racism - mostly because they simply have no need to see it. In your "friend's" case, though, sounds more like just lack of empathy.
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Old 8th August 2019, 11:53 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Yep.

(Not that this is a shock, Sailer's a notorious racist.)
Yep, he's been around since at least 2000 pushing not only his racist crap but also explicitly pushing the GOP to exploit racism among working whites: The Man Who Invented Identity Politics for the New Right

Quote:
After Mitt Romney’s 2012 loss to Barack Obama, the Republican establishment undertook a rigorous postmortem and, looking at demographic trends in the United States, determined that appealing to Hispanics was now a nuclear-level priority. And yet their successful candidate in the next election won by doing precisely the opposite. The Trump strategy looked an awful lot like the Sailer Strategy: the divisive but influential idea that the GOP could run up the electoral score by winning over working-class whites on issues like immigration, first proposed by the conservative writer Steve Sailer in 2000, and summarily rejected by establishment Republicans at the time. Now, 17 years and four presidential cycles later, Sailer, once made a pariah by mainstream conservatives, has quietly become one of the most influential thinkers on the American right.

Sailer, a California native and the son of a Lockheed engineer, became a journalist in his mid-30s, starting his career contributing to National Review in the 1990s. His specialty was a plain-spoken form of science journalism, numerate and clued-in to developments in genetics and evolutionary theory, but also infamous for applying, often in a blunt and inflammatory manner, such methods to alleged racial differences in intelligence and behavior. Indeed, Sailer popularized the term “human biodiversity” (HBD) — now a mainstay on the alt-right — to describe his field of interest, which, despite winning a few lonely adherents in the academy, has been dismissed by critics as pseudoscience at best and eugenics at worst.
Some people are apparently not quite bright enough to see that Sailer's conclusions don't really follow from his data: Without justification and despite real science refutations, he just assumes genetic differences for any statistical differences he can find.
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:10 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
In his world compassion and empathy, a regard for fairness, those things just didn't exist. It was strictly, "What's in it for me?"
In our parts, we have a saying for that attitude... "I'm Alright Jack", made famous in the lyrics of a song called "Money" by Pink Floyd.
Money, get back
I'm alright, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie
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Old 9th August 2019, 01:43 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Of course, many of them just didn't notice, more examples of my theory that many people, almost all white, in the US simply cannot spot racism - mostly because they simply have no need to see it.
I think this is more accurate than many people realise. It's the whole "I don't even see race, and if you do then you're the real racist" thing. What these people don't understand is that if you live in a majority white society that is biased in favour of white people, then being white is what allows you to not even see race. If you couple that with a lack of empathy, then you just assume it's all the same for everybody and any BAME person who does speak up about having encountered racism can be dismissed as having "a chip on their shoulder".
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Old 9th August 2019, 09:48 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
In his column he was specifically referring to New Orleans' blacks. He wrote,

"Judging from their economic and educational statistics, New Orleans' blacks are not even an above-average group of African-Americans, such as you find in Atlanta or Seattle, but more like Miami's or Milwaukee's."

You can read his entire column here.
You are quoting from a different passage.

And as Delphic Oracle pointed out, the passage from which I've quoted contains no such qualifiers.

Also, I've already twice provided a link to the article. I'm not sure why you felt a third was necessary.

So in the spirit of honest debate, please tell me whether or not you agree with this argument:
Originally Posted by Steve Sailer
What you won't hear, except from me, is that "Let the good times roll" is an especially risky message for African-Americans. The plain fact is that they tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:04 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The point I was making was that the English had certain opinions of the Irish dating back centuries. When the Irish came to America, many Americans had come to share these same sentiments on the Irish. So it is likely these opinions were based on real experiences with the Irish.

There are probably many "lily white towns" in America. I was asked which one best represents conservative ideals. I answered Provo, Utah. Many liberals may view Portland, Oregon as a liberal ideal. It is 76% white.

Actually, there are many liberals of all races, who believe that only whites can be "real conservatives". Liberals will call black conservatives Uncle Toms, tokens, sellouts, traitors or "black white supremacists". Why do they do this unless they associate whiteness with conservatism?
This is misleading.

The idea is simple: conservatism ignores minority needs and benefits the wealthy (and hence, statistically speaking, white). Therefore, since political views are correlated with personal benefit, conservatives will tend to be white. (The Uncle Tom reference is that conservatism is so bad for black people that a black conservative is selling out the interests of his fellow black people.)

I'm not commenting on whether the claims above are true, just pointing out that to say that conservatives are overwhelmingly white is statistically just a fact and that making up a story about this doesn't require thinking white folk are naturally conservative, but rather that modern conservatism is more appealing to white folk for a number of reasons. No racism in that story at all.

The Uncle Tom thing is arguably racist. At least it strongly suggests that one ought to have a loyalty to his race.
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Old 9th August 2019, 10:26 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
This is misleading.

The idea is simple: conservatism ignores minority needs and benefits the wealthy (and hence, statistically speaking, white). Therefore, since political views are correlated with personal benefit, conservatives will tend to be white. (The Uncle Tom reference is that conservatism is so bad for black people that a black conservative is selling out the interests of his fellow black people.)
You're making the same mistake - confusing "conservative" and "republican". The former is very common among black Americans - and I have no idea why anyone would be surprised that a highly religious, southern-based culture with an eye towards small business ownership wouldn't be.

The problem is that - since around 1900 but accelerating beginning in 1964, the GOP has become increasingly defined through overt white supremacism as policy - see Nixon, Reagan, Helms, Gingrich, Steve King, and now Dolt 45 (and that's why I keep saying that he's not the cause, he's just an effect). Even when GWB was president, the Civil Rights division of the DOJ was hollowed out, and bigots like J. Christian Adams brought in to help suppress minority votes.

In contrast, democrats are pro-abortion rights, but at least they don't form a conga line every time a cop fires 3 magazines into a ten-year-old black kid that was selling water so his family could go to Disneyworld. Faced with this, black conservatives, by and large, either vote for democrats to keep the Klansmen out of government, or they just throw their hands up and don't vote at all.

And when black republicans are typified by people like Diamond and Silk (who remind me of the crows from Dumbo more than anything else), and Jesse Lee Peterson, well...tell me "Uncle Tom" is wrong. (although people use another word/phrase for these folks)
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Old 9th August 2019, 06:26 PM   #189
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It seems disingenuous to me to cite Baltimore Maryland as the yardstick to measure Democratic urban governments and even worse to use the city as a way to measure the effectiveness of a black Democratic city government. Baltimore has had a spike in violent crime, everyone knows that.

Twenty years ago the bad city was Newark NJ.
Quote:
When Newark Mayor Ras Baraka graduated from high school in 1986, the city reported about 40,000 crimes. Last year, the city said there were just over 8,000 — the lowest number in five decades. Overall, crime was down 15 percent last year compared to 2017, according to official numbers, with rape and aggravated assault as exceptions.

"These are numbers that need to be touted, need to be expressed, need to be talked about," Baraka said, who added that overall crime has declined every year since he took office in 2014. Compared to 2013, homicides are down 38 percent and carjackings are down 84 percent, he said. Link
Wingers used to like to cite Newark as being violent and crime ridden, thereby conclusively 'proving,' Democratic urban governments are bad and black city officials inept at best and corrupt at worst. That when you combine the two -- the Democratic Party and black elected officials -- you get virtual anarchy. Newark has made a lot of strides so now Baltimore is the poster boy for their theories.
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Old 9th August 2019, 06:30 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Oh dear me...
racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Not even close. Care to try again Old Fruit?
Exactly. You used a racial slur directed at the race that commits the most homicides in America.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 17th August 2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 9th August 2019, 07:36 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Exactly. You used a racial slur directed at the race that commits the most homicides in America.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
You're...uh...you're really expecting to have this taken seriously, eh?

Last edited by zooterkin; 17th August 2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 04:47 AM   #192
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It took you three days to think about it, and this is all all you could come up with? Seriously?

Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Exactly. You used a racial slur directed at the race that commits the most homicides in America.

Smartcooky = KKK leader
So you are admitting that rednecks commit the most homicides in America?

Actually, you took me to task for using a racial term against rednecks!

I said
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Our rightmost mainstream party is way left of your leftmost party....liberalism hasn't done us any harm over here.....in 2017 we had 35 murders in a country of five million people. But then we don't have a population made up of 35% redneck racists with a Racist in Chief as their Dear Leader
You said
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
...... before making my first post in this thread, you falsely accused "rednecks" of being responsible for a high number of homicides.
.and you use racial slurs to show how "not racist" you are. I expect better from a 67 year old man.
You said
Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Not possible, I didn't use racial stereotypes, it was you!

Says the person who uses ethnic stereotypes and racial slurs!
Looks like you need some more schoolin'

When a person of one race uses a disparaging term against another member of his/her own race, that does not meet the definition of racism, which I will repeat for you

Definition of racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/racism

When one black person calls another black person ****** (the N-word) that is NOT racism
When I can another white person "redneck" that is NOT racism
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Old 10th August 2019, 06:30 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
Exactly. You used a racial slur directed at the race that commits the most homicides in America.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Assuming your very strained premise, why and how would someone prejudiced against white people become the leader of a white supremacist organization?

Last edited by zooterkin; 17th August 2019 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:31 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So you are admitting that rednecks commit the most homicides in America?
No

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Actually, you took me to task for using a racial term against rednecks!
And I noted it was a euphemism for blacks. Since you don't have the courage to say the N word you used sophistry to express racial animus against the people who commit the majority of murders in the US.
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Old 10th August 2019, 08:19 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Baylor View Post
No

And I noted it was a euphemism for blacks. Since you don't have the courage to say the N word you used sophistry to express racial animus against the people who commit the majority of murders in the US.
Redneck is not a euphemism for black people. Dude, it's extremely racist to think that any derogatory term or disparaging statement is automatically about black people.

Also the majority of murders in the US are committed by white people.
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Old 10th August 2019, 10:14 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Some people are apparently not quite bright enough to see that Sailer's conclusions don't really follow from his data: Without justification and despite real science refutations, he just assumes genetic differences for any statistical differences he can find.
He assumes genetic differences along with social and cultural differences. But in certain endeavors, like running, it's hard to argue against genetics not playing a role. Look at the 100 meter sprint. Steve Sailer writes,

...none of the 8 finalists in the last 9 Olympic men's 100 meter dash going back to 1984 have been more than half non-black. So, we've had 72 blacks out of the last 72 100m dash finalists.

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You are quoting from a different passage.

And as Delphic Oracle pointed out, the passage from which I've quoted contains no such qualifiers.

Also, I've already twice provided a link to the article. I'm not sure why you felt a third was necessary.

So in the spirit of honest debate, please tell me whether or not you agree with this argument:
Do I agree that New Orleans at the time was run by incompetent black politicians and the response to Hurricane Katrina was a disaster? Absolutely. Do I agree that it applies to all blacks at all times? Not necessarily.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The problem is that - since around 1900 but accelerating beginning in 1964, the GOP has become increasingly defined through overt white supremacism as policy - see Nixon, Reagan, Helms, Gingrich, Steve King, and now Dolt 45 (and that's why I keep saying that he's not the cause, he's just an effect). Even when GWB was president, the Civil Rights division of the DOJ was hollowed out, and bigots like J. Christian Adams brought in to help suppress minority votes.
The modern Left believes it is immoral for politicians to appeal to the interests of whites. But in a democracy this is totally legitimate. You can appeal to every other ethnic lobby, but to appeal to white interests is "white supremacy". It is interesting that you mentioned the year 1964 as the real start of "white supremacy". A higher percentage of Republicans in Congress voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 than Democrats. Apparently, this is how the GOP started their "white supremacism" policies.

But there was another trend that started in 1964 that is in-line with the topic at hand. The murder rate in American doubled between 1964 and 1974. This huge increase in our crime rate, focused largely in American cities, has had a huge effect on our politics. What you describe as "white supremacy" is really just whites who believe in law and order and don't wish to see their communities torn apart by crime and other forms of social dysfunction.

It is interesting to note that in history it was only sieges, wars, fires and natural disasters such as floods, earthquakes and hurricanes that could destroy great cities. But in the 1960s a new possibility was added, Liberalism. Detroit was known as the "Paris of the West". Yet within a few decades it was nothing more than an urban jungle. There were many other once great American cities that suffered similar devastation. Americans who are concerned that their once great cities are being reduced to hell-holes are described as "white supremacists". The term 'white supremacy" is a way to pathologize whites when they express the same sentiments as every other people on this planet.

Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
It seems disingenuous to me to cite Baltimore Maryland as the yardstick to measure Democratic urban governments and even worse to use the city as a way to measure the effectiveness of a black Democratic city government. Baltimore has had a spike in violent crime, everyone knows that.

Newark has made a lot of strides so now Baltimore is the poster boy for their theories.
Baltimore, along with Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago, Camden, New Orleans, Birmingham, Memphis, Jackson, Selma etc....

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Also the majority of murders in the US are committed by white people.
False. Blacks comprise roughly 13% of the US population and account for some 52% of all homicides.
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Old 10th August 2019, 10:36 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
He assumes genetic differences along with social and cultural differences. But in certain endeavors, like running, it's hard to argue against genetics not playing a role. Look at the 100 meter sprint. Steve Sailer writes,

...none of the 8 finalists in the last 9 Olympic men's 100 meter dash going back to 1984 have been more than half non-black. So, we've had 72 blacks out of the last 72 100m dash finalists.
There are valid inferences that can be drawn from statistics, and then there are some incredibly stupid ones. When Sailer gathers statistics and groups them by race, he's already wrong before he even attempts his first inference: Race won't tell him anything useful at all. All it does is completely conceal actual causes and effects and replace them with an overriding, completely bogus one. And that's the purpose.

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Old 10th August 2019, 10:40 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The modern Left believes it is immoral for politicians to appeal to the interests of whites.
[Citation required]

Quote:
What you describe as "white supremacy" is really just whites who believe in law and order and don't wish to see their communities torn apart by crime and other forms of social dysfunction.
Out of curiosity, are you including Trump and Trump supporters in that group of people who "believe in law and order"?
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Old 10th August 2019, 11:06 AM   #199
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Quote:
Detroit police announced homicides in 2018 had dipped to 261, the lowest number in 50 years, and the third straight year the city recorded the fewest number of killings since the 1960s, when the city's population was much higher. Violent crime dropped 2 percent in 2018, Chief James Craig said. Link
Quote:
Overall crime figures in [Camden] showed double-digit decreases last year, even as the number of murders remained little-changed, official say. Link
Most sociologists and political scientists blame the loss of blue-collar jobs, a trend that accelerated in the 1960s, for the ills in many cities. Most of these cities have been ruled by Democratic administrations for decades. That poverty is a better predictor of behavior than race.

I presume the winger 'answer' is strict racial separation. That's where all this is both coming from and headed to.
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Old 10th August 2019, 11:38 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Out of curiosity, are you including Trump and Trump supporters in that group of people who "believe in law and order"?
The phrase itself gives up the game, and has since Nixon and Friends latched onto it. After all, if you already have "law", then what exact sort of "order" do you need in addition to that? Well, how about a hierarchy where white men are at the top, and black and Native people at the absolute bottom?

(I recommend "Rule of law" for those who wish to avoid this implication. I'd say that Dolt 45 lost nearly every black voter when he emphasized this phrase during a debate but, y'know, birtherism already made his hatred of black people obvious)

I've said (or rather, I get from academics who have studied things far more than I have) before that white supremacism, in the US, is about transferring wealth from nonwhite people (and incidentally from poor white people), and giving said wealth to some white people. The classic means is by dividing people by race, by suckering poorer white people into believing that they're superior to nonwhite people - in fact, they're so inferior that they're better off if wealthy white people govern them, instead of letting them govern themselves!

Dolt 45 is a perfect example. "Look at that foreign negro Obama! I bet it'd be easy for a superior white man like me to fix health care, stop Iran from getting a nuke, and balance the budget!" Turns out he's an incredibly bad presidentYes, he was wealthy to start, and likely still is. But he's too stupid to understand the game, so he's one of the marks.

(Compare to the claims made in the OP)
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