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Tags mass shootings , racism incidents , racism issues , shooting incidents , Texas incidents

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Old 5th August 2019, 05:56 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Someone has taken the first page of the shooter's manifesto and drawn lines from the things he's said to public statements by Trump and other mainstream right-wing voices saying the same things. Spoilered for size:

Small nitpick: his link to Chris Hayes' tweet is not correct. One's talking about the migrant crisis in Europe and the other the colonisation of the Americas. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I don't think this country can survive five more years of this.
It survived a full-on civil war, though.
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Old 5th August 2019, 07:13 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Besides getting the city itself wrong, idiot Trump can't even read correctly from his teleprompter. He said, "May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo. May God protect them,” when the teleprompter actually said


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8caa1eba23.jpg
Give the poor guy a break. It was an awfully long sentence to read all at once without a mistake or two.
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Old 5th August 2019, 07:19 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Give the poor guy a break. It was an awfully long sentence to read all at once without a mistake or two.
My thoughts and prayers go out to him.
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Old 5th August 2019, 07:28 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He's also did an occasional [drug use] sniff.
Come on, be fair. He's not sniffing because of drug use, he's sniffing because his brain is leaking out of his nose.
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Old 5th August 2019, 08:06 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Watching the Racist-in-Chief mechanically reading the teleprompter's words without affect reveals so clearly that he's an unempathetic sociopath. Can't even *act* like he cares. And gives the racists, bigots and white supremacists a clear signal that he's merely (barely) playing a part expected of him.

At his rallies, when mockingly clowning about how "presidential" comportment looks, he gives us a revealing look into his corrupted ethos and vacant soul. And confirms it with his wooden performance when the situation demands that a real President come to the fore.

Contrast this with Obama's forceful, heart-felt, emotional appearances after similar tragedies.
They both care, they just care differently, and those differences are devastatingly simple

Barack Obama cares deeply about his country and its people.

Donald Trump cares deeply about power and the money it brings him.
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Old 5th August 2019, 08:06 PM   #126
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State by state, more gun ownership equals more mass shootings, study shows
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Old 5th August 2019, 08:07 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
STATE Senator. No Republican US Senator has the cojones.
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Old 5th August 2019, 08:33 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
STATE Senator. No Republican US Senator has the cojones.
And former Governor Huckabee? Well, he's solved it. The problem (which ISF has misidentified, as usual) is NOT ENOUGH "Thoughts and Prayers".

https://thehill.com/homenews/456287-...mass-shootings
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Old 5th August 2019, 08:37 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by BadBoy View Post
State by state, more gun ownership equals more mass shootings, study shows
Gun bans don't stop mass-shooters. You know what stops mass-shooters? Running out of ammo Good guys with guns.
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Old 5th August 2019, 08:53 PM   #130
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I have the feeling that the administration will use this as a basis for trying to control the internet in the US much like China does.
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Old 5th August 2019, 09:01 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And former Governor Huckabee? Well, he's solved it. The problem (which ISF has misidentified, as usual) is NOT ENOUGH "Thoughts and Prayers".

https://thehill.com/homenews/456287-...mass-shootings
I referenced that concept in the other thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12776556
It's bizzarro world. People make up fake news to discredit Democrats, get caught, but it is okay because Trump just starts calling all news he doesn't like "fake news".

Now we criticize politicians for offering nothing but thought and prayers rather than real action, and that gets flipped too. There is no getting through.
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Old 5th August 2019, 09:14 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I referenced that concept in the other thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post12776556
It's bizzarro world. People make up fake news to discredit Democrats, get caught, but it is okay because Trump just starts calling all news he doesn't like "fake news".

Now we criticize politicians for offering nothing but thought and prayers rather than real action, and that gets flipped too. There is no getting through.
And there never will be so long as you have idiots like Huckabee (who put all their faith in an invisible, magical sky daddy) running your country.

I have news for you Mike.... you can ship "Thoughts and Prayers" by the truckload but it won't make any difference. Your invisible Sky Daddy is not going to fix this for you.
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Old 5th August 2019, 09:22 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Gun bans don't stop mass-shooters. You know what stops mass-shooters? Running out of ammo Good guys with guns.
I know that you are just Cain being Cain, but your comment brings up a good point.

Texas has one of the highest rates of open carry in the USA. With hundreds of people in the Walmart in El Paso, there us an extremely good chance that some of the people in there were packing heat.

Where were they when they were needed?
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Old 5th August 2019, 09:41 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Gun bans don't stop mass-shooters. You know what stops mass-shooters? Running out of ammo Good guys with guns.
Yes, thank god there with good guys with guns on the scene in Ohio in about 30 seconds apparently, so only 9 people died. Only... sigh in the rest of the developed world we wouldn't be using that word about these tragedies. (And yes I know this is a Cain post but you know there are people out there who actually believe this BS).
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Old 5th August 2019, 09:50 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Gun bans don't stop mass-shooters. You know what stops mass-shooters? Running out of ammo Good guys with guns.
there were no good guys with guns in El Paso.

What we need is good bullets to fight off the bad bullets.

Replacing randomly every fifth bullet sold with a dud that will jam the weapon might be an idea...
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Old 5th August 2019, 10:40 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
there were no good guys with guns in El Paso.

What we need is good bullets to fight off the bad bullets.

Replacing randomly every fifth bullet sold with a dud that will jam the weapon might be an idea...
Chris Rock had a great idea, charge $5,000 per bullit.
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Old 5th August 2019, 10:45 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Chris Rock had a great idea, charge $5,000 per bullit.
Chris Rock: "Guns don't kill people! It's the bullets!"
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Old 5th August 2019, 10:51 PM   #138
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Is it time to remind y'all again?

Dolt 45 is a symptom. He is *not* the cause. I can fully believe that this shooter was a white nationalist *before* the idiot-in-chief started screeching about the Mexicans, just like many republicans loved him when he was ranting about how Obama couldn't possibly be a real American, or intelligent.

The fact that the idiot in president is likely *because* the shooter, and many other white conservatives, were so scared about black and brown people, just like I believe that white supremacists elected George Wallace, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. Just like I believe they love watching Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour, and insist that every black person must be a violent "thug".

*However*!

This doesn't mean that Dolt 45 to give him license to act out on his fears, although I can't guarentee that this is the case.

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Old 5th August 2019, 11:11 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
A state senator. Not quite the same impact.
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Old 5th August 2019, 11:17 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Yes, thank god there with good guys with guns on the scene in Ohio in about 30 seconds apparently, so only 9 people died. Only... sigh in the rest of the developed world we wouldn't be using that word about these tragedies. (And yes I know this is a Cain post but you know there are people out there who actually believe this BS).
That's the price they are willing to pay for the right to bear arms. Just 30 innocent lives in one day, but it will be about about 30,000 by the end of this year. Out of 320 million, that's a "great deal", apparently.
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Old 6th August 2019, 01:04 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Yes, thank god there with good guys with guns on the scene in Ohio in about 30 seconds apparently, so only 9 people died. Only... sigh in the rest of the developed world we wouldn't be using that word about these tragedies. (And yes I know this is a Cain post but you know there are people out there who actually believe this BS).
Yep...and not a single one of them was a gun toting civilian; they were all trained police.
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Old 6th August 2019, 01:17 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Is it time to remind y'all again?

Dolt 45 is a symptom. He is *not* the cause. I can fully believe that this shooter was a white nationalist *before* the idiot-in-chief started screeching about the Mexicans, just like many republicans loved him when he was ranting about how Obama couldn't possibly be a real American, or intelligent.

The fact that the idiot in president is likely *because* the shooter, and many other white conservatives, were so scared about black and brown people, just like I believe that white supremacists elected George Wallace, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. Just like I believe they love watching Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour, and insist that every black person must be a violent "thug".

*However*!

This doesn't mean that Dolt 45 to give him license to act out on his fears, although I can't guarentee that this is the case.
I think it's a feedback loop. His supporters tell Trump it's okay to have such views, and Trump tells his supporters it's okay to have such views.
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Old 6th August 2019, 01:28 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Yes, thank god there with good guys with guns on the scene in Ohio in about 30 seconds apparently, so only 9 people died. Only...
I think this can't get emphasis enough: this was an absolutely best-case scenario when it came to stopping a mass shooting: armed police on the scene in no time, and still 9 people died.
Anyone calling for armed guards in a School, more police, more guns for "the good guys" must accept that people will still die before anyone can react.
Unless of course you make sure that loaded guns don't make it to a very public place at all.
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Old 6th August 2019, 02:50 AM   #144
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It seems that the narrative that's been decided on in "violent video games", despite no evidence that the shooter was a gamer. It's what Fox News is pushing, it's what right-wing pundits are pushing, and it's what politicians are pushing (mostly right-wingers, but also Joe Biden).

I know it's been a standard-issue scapegoat since the 80s, but it's been adopted very quickly in this particular case. What I'm curious about is whether politicians saw that that's what Fox News were pushing and decided "that'll do", whether Fox News got a heads-up from the Republican party that "we're going to see if we can blame video games", or whether it's just coincidental that in this particular instance several different sources have all happened upon the same bogeyman.

Of course, it's not the only narrative. There's the usual "no, you!" claims that he's an immigrant/democrat/antifa/false flag actor, there's the "mental health" narrative (again, without evidence that the shooter had mental health problems, and contradicting the actual data on the relationship between mental health and gun violence), there's the narrative that it's a natural and expected reaction to the existence of feminism, and there's even some people (including some Republican politicians and even Trump's own public statements, although it wasn't the main thrust of those latter) who are pointing the finger at white nationalism. But I'm specifically curious about the "video games" narrative, because it's one I'd not heard in a while and seems to have become very loud very quickly. So I'm curious as to both how and why.
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Old 6th August 2019, 03:44 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Is it time to remind y'all again?

Dolt 45 is a symptom. He is *not* the cause. I can fully believe that this shooter was a white nationalist *before* the idiot-in-chief started screeching about the Mexicans, just like many republicans loved him when he was ranting about how Obama couldn't possibly be a real American, or intelligent.

The fact that the idiot in president is likely *because* the shooter, and many other white conservatives, were so scared about black and brown people, just like I believe that white supremacists elected George Wallace, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. Just like I believe they love watching Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour, and insist that every black person must be a violent "thug".

*However*!

This doesn't mean that Dolt 45 to give him license to act out on his fears, although I can't guarentee that this is the case.
If we're considering, say, a 21 year old shooter today, that would mean he would have been 17 when that miserable tub o' guts rode down his golden escalator. That's a significant period of time, at that age, to get juiced up by the Racist-in-Chief.
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Old 6th August 2019, 03:55 AM   #146
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It’s a good question: who puts these narratives out there?
I know it’s been a big Dave Grossman taking point, and as he has a big following among LEO and people like the III% ers, and other 5.11 wearing military wannabes, other gun nuts who have become a political force lately, it makes sense his preaching would gain prominence.

And it’s not totally nonsensical. If people can be inspired by Donald Trump or Catcher in the Rye, video games can inspire people too. And they are violent and a lot of people play them.

But whether they’re to blame or not, I think the more immediate concern should be how to stop 9 or 20 people from being killed, with ease, in less than a minute. Since we can’t go back in time and take away video games just in case...
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Old 6th August 2019, 03:57 AM   #147
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Aren't quite a bit of Trump's cult gamers that live in their mothers' basements? I wonder if the "blame games" tactic will turn them off.
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Old 6th August 2019, 06:06 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
That's the price they are willing to pay for the right to bear arms. Just 30 innocent lives in one day, but it will be about about 30,000 by the end of this year. Out of 320 million, that's a "great deal", apparently.


Honestly, it's been clear since at least Sandy Hook that, in their heart of hearts, this is price the gun lobby is willing to pay to continue having virtually unlimited access to weapons. Once some ******* shot up a bunch of little kids, what possible target could be worse?

There will never be common-sense gun control laws passed in the US. You'd have to change the Constitution to enable that, and the gun lobby will always have enough sway to block such an amendment. Barring another outright civil war where one side stuffs a new constitution down the other side's throats by main force, the US is stuck with this ****.
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Old 6th August 2019, 06:18 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
There will never be common-sense gun control laws passed in the US. You'd have to change the Constitution to enable that
You'd only need to change the Supreme Court. The 2nd amendment has a perfectly reasonable interpretation that you need to be an active duty soldier or at least a reservist to qualify for protected weaponry, it's just the current court that reads it as GURNS GURNS GURNS.
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Old 6th August 2019, 06:35 AM   #150
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I hope they go after the gaming community. It will work out very well for the GOP.

This isn't the 80's. The only games available aren't on Nintendo anymore and there's more money in the gaming industry than the gun industry by a significant amount. For some people that's how they make their living, and the prize for a recent gaming competition was, what? $30 million or something crazy? Has there ever been a single shooting event that's had a $30 million grand prize? No. (ETA: Ok, maybe. I don't know and can't be bothered to look.)

Blaming video games might have worked in decades past, but this is an entirely different monster in today's age.
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Old 6th August 2019, 07:04 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I hope they go after the gaming community. It will work out very well for the GOP.

This isn't the 80's. The only games available aren't on Nintendo anymore and there's more money in the gaming industry than the gun industry by a significant amount. For some people that's how they make their living, and the prize for a recent gaming competition was, what? $30 million or something crazy? Has there ever been a single shooting event that's had a $30 million grand prize? No. (ETA: Ok, maybe. I don't know and can't be bothered to look.)

Blaming video games might have worked in decades past, but this is an entirely different monster in today's age.
Sure but that is only if they planned to do something, they just need to make noise for their base until they go back to ignoring it all. I mean they can't go after white supremacists, the FBI is afraid to do so and be seen as targeting Trumps base. You can't go after guns, so they need some scapegoat.

""I believe [FBI Director] Christopher A. Wray is an honorable man, but I think in many ways the FBI is hamstrung in trying to investigate the white supremacist movement like the old FBI would," Gomez said. "There’s some reluctance among agents to bring forth an investigation that targets what the president perceives as his base. It’s a no-win situation for the FBI agent or supervisor.""

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-fbi-w...ist-terrorists
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Old 6th August 2019, 07:37 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
If people can be inspired by Donald Trump or Catcher in the Rye, video games can inspire people too. And they are violent and a lot of people play them.
The "violent video games" argument is no different than the "violent movies" argument or the "music with explicit lyrics" argument. One of the key differences between Fortnite and Donald Trump is that Donald Trump is an actual, real person.

And, scientifically speaking, it has never been demonstrated that any kind of media has any long-term effects on anybody (although, obviously, there can be short-term effects such as feeling loved-up after watching a romance, or sad after watching a tragedy).
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:07 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
If we're considering, say, a 21 year old shooter today, that would mean he would have been 17 when that miserable tub o' guts rode down his golden escalator. That's a significant period of time, at that age, to get juiced up by the Racist-in-Chief.
Not really, when you compare it to what, say, R/theDonald, or one of the white nationalist sites can do in the same length of time, particularly message boards, and especially message boards where they freely discuss how great it would be to line and shoot a bunch of <various slurs>, and trade ideas on how to best do it.

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Aren't quite a bit of Trump's cult gamers that live in their mothers' basements? I wonder if the "blame games" tactic will turn them off.
It was hilarious to watch them bug out when the kkkeebler elf decided to bring back prison time for weed, and the first time Dolt 45 said he was going to ban violent video games. The second time he says it, when he did nothing at all the first time...meh.

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The "violent video games" argument is no different than the "violent movies" argument or the "music with explicit lyrics" argument. One of the key differences between Fortnite and Donald Trump is that Donald Trump is an actual, real person.
Well, I've heard a few people that have said "You know, Call of Duty kinda made me look into joining the military, and when I did, I decided that it was the right place for a guy like me that doesn't know what to do with himself." I've never seen a game where you drive for hours just to shot up a mall because you're a Nazi wannabe. I know of a game where you drive for hours that will make you want to commit a hate crime in real life, but that's different.
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:08 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Aren't quite a bit of Trump's cult gamers that live in their mothers' basements? I wonder if the "blame games" tactic will turn them off.
Game playing is now main stream so I doubt this will get any traction. Back in the 80s and 90s it was the stereotype of the insular teenager playing in they dark. Those teenagers now have their own kids , some even grandchildren and still play their games. Shows how out of touch our politicians can be.
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:11 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Game playing is now main stream so I doubt this will get any traction. Back in the 80s and 90s it was the stereotype of the insular teenager playing in they dark. Those teenagers now have their own kids , some even grandchildren and still play their games. Shows how out of touch our politicians can be.
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:43 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The "violent video games" argument is no different than the "violent movies" argument or the "music with explicit lyrics" argument. One of the key differences between Fortnite and Donald Trump is that Donald Trump is an actual, real person.

And, scientifically speaking, it has never been demonstrated that any kind of media has any long-term effects on anybody (although, obviously, there can be short-term effects such as feeling loved-up after watching a romance, or sad after watching a tragedy).
I played too much Skyrim and I'd totally go on a killing spree except I took an arrow in the knee.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:43 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
There will never be common-sense gun control laws passed in the US. You'd have to change the Constitution to enable that, and the gun lobby will always have enough sway to block such an amendment. Barring another outright civil war where one side stuffs a new constitution down the other side's throats by main force, the US is stuck with this ****.
Congress can enact legislation to declare any firearm to be controlled by the NFA of 1934. This imposes taxes of any amount (currently $200) and sometimes lengthy (currently about a year) registration/authorization times to those who want to make or buy a firearm.

The president can simply write an EO to declare all semi-autos be defined as machine guns like he did for bump stocks. All of the semi-autos made after May 1986 would be contraband, the rest subject to any size tax or regulation scheme they can dream up.

The 2nd amendment is routinely ignored by Congress.

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Old 6th August 2019, 12:11 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Gun bans don't stop mass-shooters. You know what stops mass-shooters? Running out of ammo Good guys with guns.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I know that you are just Cain being Cain, but your comment brings up a good point.

Texas has one of the highest rates of open carry in the USA. With hundreds of people in the Walmart in El Paso, there us an extremely good chance that some of the people in there were packing heat.

Where were they when they were needed?
Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Yes, thank god there with good guys with guns on the scene in Ohio in about 30 seconds apparently, so only 9 people died. Only... sigh in the rest of the developed world we wouldn't be using that word about these tragedies. (And yes I know this is a Cain post but you know there are people out there who actually believe this BS).
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
there were no good guys with guns in El Paso.

What we need is good bullets to fight off the bad bullets.

Replacing randomly every fifth bullet sold with a dud that will jam the weapon might be an idea...
These shootings prove that every gun nuts fantasy of every citizen being armed being the solution to mass shootings is complete bunk. Who'd a thunk it? This idea that this would always result in some armed vigilante taking the killers down Rambo style doesn't quite pan out in the reality of a chaotic, panicked situation involving a mass of confused and scared people and a hail of bullets coming from who knows where.
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Old 6th August 2019, 12:26 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
These shootings prove that every gun nuts fantasy of every citizen being armed being the solution to mass shootings is complete bunk. Who'd a thunk it? This idea that this would always result in some armed vigilante taking the killers down Rambo style doesn't quite pan out in the reality of a chaotic, panicked situation involving a mass of confused and scared people and a hail of bullets coming from who knows where.
I think the trope of "more good guys with guns", or the constant scapegoating of video games, violent media, fatherless homes, mental illness, whatever, is just a crutch for 2A advocates. It allows them to point the finger at something and evade an uncomfortable conversation.

If we are going to treat the right to bear arms as a civil right, there's a grim reality that needs to be faced. Like other civil rights, protecting them means also protecting bad actors that will abuse those rights. Simply put, a vigorous 2A right in America necessarily means that people wanting to commit bad acts with guns will have access to do so, and there's really not much that can be done to directly mitigate that doesn't chip away at 2A rights for the law abiding citizenry.

In the same way there is no way to live in a society with vigorous 1A protections that prevents the KKK from marching down the street inciting hatred against minorities, there's no way to live in society with 2A protections that prevents malicious actors from getting their hands on guns. The same 5th amendment rights that protect us from intrusive and arbitrary searches from the police also make it easier for criminals to evade justice.

All civil rights come with negatives, it's up to society to decide whether those negatives are worth it or not.
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Old 6th August 2019, 12:33 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Small nitpick: his link to Chris Hayes' tweet is not correct. One's talking about the migrant crisis in Europe and the other the colonisation of the Americas. Unless I'm reading that wrong.



It survived a full-on civil war, though.
Yes, but at horrendous cost and with scars that exist to this day.
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