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Tags mass shootings , racism incidents , racism issues , shooting incidents , Texas incidents

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Old 6th August 2019, 01:14 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Watching the Racist-in-Chief mechanically reading the teleprompter's words without affect reveals so clearly that he's an unempathetic sociopath. Can't even *act* like he cares.
Don't worry... at least he republicans have Moscow Mitch McConnell tobe empathetic to shooting victims...

From: https://theweek.com/speedreads/85708...-paso-shooting
Over the weekend, a mass shooting in El Paso, Texas left 22 people dead, and another in Dayton, Ohio killed nine people. But that didn't stop Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's (R-Ky.) campaign Twitter account from sharing a photo of his political opponents' names written onto tombstones hours after the first shooting happened.

Plenty of people would thing its a bit tone death, but when else are you going to send out a picture of tomb stones, except after a mass shooting?
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Old 6th August 2019, 01:16 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
These shootings prove that every gun nuts fantasy of every citizen being armed being the solution to mass shootings is complete bunk. Who'd a thunk it? This idea that this would always result in some armed vigilante taking the killers down Rambo style doesn't quite pan out in the reality of a chaotic, panicked situation involving a mass of confused and scared people and a hail of bullets coming from who knows where.
Well the Ohio one seems to be a case of good guys with guns(the police not random citizens) stopping a shooter in less than a minute so that is a clear success story for them. Everything really went perfectly in response to a mass shooter there.
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Old 6th August 2019, 01:18 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think the trope of "more good guys with guns", or the constant scapegoating of video games, violent media, fatherless homes, mental illness, whatever, is just a crutch for 2A advocates. It allows them to point the finger at something and evade an uncomfortable conversation.

If we are going to treat the right to bear arms as a civil right, there's a grim reality that needs to be faced. Like other civil rights, protecting them means also protecting bad actors that will abuse those rights. Simply put, a vigorous 2A right in America necessarily means that people wanting to commit bad acts with guns will have access to do so, and there's really not much that can be done to directly mitigate that doesn't chip away at 2A rights for the law abiding citizenry.

In the same way there is no way to live in a society with vigorous 1A protections that prevents the KKK from marching down the street inciting hatred against minorities, there's no way to live in society with 2A protections that prevents malicious actors from getting their hands on guns. The same 5th amendment rights that protect us from intrusive and arbitrary searches from the police also make it easier for criminals to evade justice.

All civil rights come with negatives, it's up to society to decide whether those negatives are worth it or not.
Exactly, like people celebrate those marches as a victory for freedom of the first amendment we should celebrate these shootings as a victory for the second amendment.
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Old 6th August 2019, 03:04 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Is it time to remind y'all again?

Dolt 45 is a symptom. He is *not* the cause. I can fully believe that this shooter was a white nationalist *before* the idiot-in-chief started screeching about the Mexicans, just like many republicans loved him when he was ranting about how Obama couldn't possibly be a real American, or intelligent.

The fact that the idiot in president is likely *because* the shooter, and many other white conservatives, were so scared about black and brown people, just like I believe that white supremacists elected George Wallace, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. Just like I believe they love watching Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour, and insist that every black person must be a violent "thug".

*However*!

This doesn't mean that Dolt 45 to give him license to act out on his fears, although I can't guarentee that this is the case.
I don't agree unless you want to call social media the cause.

If it wasn't for Russian trolls, bots, social media and so on, we would not have Trump. Yes, these scum are now finding each other, but they are not the country.
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Old 6th August 2019, 03:09 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think the trope of "more good guys with guns", or the constant scapegoating of video games, violent media, fatherless homes, mental illness, whatever, is just a crutch for 2A advocates. It allows them to point the finger at something and evade an uncomfortable conversation.

If we are going to treat the right to bear arms as a civil right, there's a grim reality that needs to be faced. Like other civil rights, protecting them means also protecting bad actors that will abuse those rights. Simply put, a vigorous 2A right in America necessarily means that people wanting to commit bad acts with guns will have access to do so, and there's really not much that can be done to directly mitigate that doesn't chip away at 2A rights for the law abiding citizenry.

In the same way there is no way to live in a society with vigorous 1A protections that prevents the KKK from marching down the street inciting hatred against minorities, there's no way to live in society with 2A protections that prevents malicious actors from getting their hands on guns. The same 5th amendment rights that protect us from intrusive and arbitrary searches from the police also make it easier for criminals to evade justice.

All civil rights come with negatives, it's up to society to decide whether those negatives are worth it or not.
The illusion of good faith debate went on for a long time, but after Sandy Hook, the nation as a whole, or at least as a voting body, explicitly decided that the mass murder of little children is a reasonable and bearable price to pay for our current gun rights. We can, perhaps, change the decision, but we can't say it has not already been made.
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Old 6th August 2019, 05:05 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well the Ohio one seems to be a case of good guys with guns(the police not random citizens) stopping a shooter in less than a minute so that is a clear success story for them. Everything really went perfectly in response to a mass shooter there.
No doubt. But outside of robberies or assaults, the civilian with a gun saving the day is more of a fairytale than reality when it comes to mass shootings.
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Old 6th August 2019, 06:37 PM   #167
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Trump's Claim #1: Video games are to blame for rampage killings

Well, other countries have video games, but they don't have anything like the level and frequency of rampage killings the USA has

Trump's Claim #2: Mental illness is to blame for rampage killings

Well, other countries have mentally ill citizens, but they don't have anything like the level and frequency of rampage killing the USA has

Trump's Claim #2: The Internet is to blame for rampage killings

Well, other countries' citizens have access to the internet, but they don't have anything like the level and frequency of rampage killings the USA has

So, what things does the USA have related to these killings that other countries do not have?

1. The right to bear arms under the constitution

2. More firearms per population than any other western country

3. An aggressive gun rights lobby that bribes large numbers of politicians to vote against even the most benign gun restrictions

4. Almost no restrictions on ownership of semi-automatic weapons

5. A large number gun owners who aggressively defend their right to have guns as being more important than the lives of their fellow citizens

So, there is no chance that America's huge problem with spree and rampage killings has anything to do with these five things? None at all?
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Old 6th August 2019, 07:10 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
These shootings prove that every gun nuts fantasy of every citizen being armed being the solution to mass shootings is complete bunk. Who'd a thunk it? This idea that this would always result in some armed vigilante taking the killers down Rambo style doesn't quite pan out in the reality of a chaotic, panicked situation involving a mass of confused and scared people and a hail of bullets coming from who knows where.
Quoted for truth

"Good guy with a gun" is sheer fantasy, a gun nut's wet dream!

The reality is that the victims would be caught in a crossfire, and the death toll would almost certainly be higher unless the "good guy" is very, very good!
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Old 6th August 2019, 07:21 PM   #169
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Why can't video games contribute to the culture of violence?

I think people are just casually dismissing it because it came out of the mouth of Puritanical conservatives since the 90s.

The frequency of mass killings in the U.S. is amazingly high, but it could be driven by media coverage of other killers before them as well. Violent entertainment could be a silent contributor.

I mean I could be way off the mark here but I don't think it should be treated like a joke.
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Old 6th August 2019, 07:50 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Why can't video games contribute to the culture of violence?

I think people are just casually dismissing it because it came out of the mouth of Puritanical conservatives since the 90s.

The frequency of mass killings in the U.S. is amazingly high, but it could be driven by media coverage of other killers before them as well. Violent entertainment could be a silent contributor.

I mean I could be way off the mark here but I don't think it should be treated like a joke.
You'd think after all these years some clever scientists might have done some research to find out.

Maybe you should suggest it*.




*Or look it up.
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:49 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Ben Shapiro wrote: "The Obama administration is racist... The predictable result of [administration] polic[ies] will resemble the results of the 1876 election: federal abdication on racial violence, state abdication on racial violence and local abdication on racial violence. The next race war will come not from racist whites, but from racist blacks and Hispanics who feel empowered to act on their racism by an administration that excuses all minority misbehavior."

https://twitter.com/buhhhhlieevmeee/...66815239917569
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Old 6th August 2019, 11:01 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Are you sure that you weren't just Cained by Ben?
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Old 6th August 2019, 11:36 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Like other civil rights, protecting them means also protecting bad actors that will abuse those rights.

Gig Young (Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.)
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Old 6th August 2019, 11:43 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Plenty of people would thing its a bit tone death

One of those cases where the Deaf Sentence is required.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th August 2019, 01:06 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Are you sure that you weren't just Cained by Ben?
No. Ben's not repeating that line of late. It was an accusation made when Obama was in the White House, nine years ago. He wrote it because he's a **** disturber, not because he actually believes it.
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Old 7th August 2019, 01:09 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Why can't video games contribute to the culture of violence?

I think people are just casually dismissing it because it came out of the mouth of Puritanical conservatives since the 90s.
I'm personally dismissing it because the science that's been done doesn't support it.

And in this particular instance I'm also dismissing it because there's no evidence whatsoever that the shooter had ever even played a video game once in his entire life.

But it's mostly the science thing.
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Old 7th August 2019, 01:21 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Why can't video games contribute to the culture of violence?

I think people are just casually dismissing it because it came out of the mouth of Puritanical conservatives since the 90s.

The frequency of mass killings in the U.S. is amazingly high, but it could be driven by media coverage of other killers before them as well. Violent entertainment could be a silent contributor.

I mean I could be way off the mark here but I don't think it should be treated like a joke.
The Video Game industry is bigger than the Movie Industry, and has grow dramatically for decades.
If there was a positive correlation, we would be living in a Mad Max world.

But in fact, there is a measurable negative correlation between crime and video games - people who play game don't have time to crime.
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Old 7th August 2019, 01:27 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The Video Game industry is bigger than the Movie Industry, and has grow dramatically for decades.
If there was a positive correlation, we would be living in a Mad Max world.

But in fact, there is a measurable negative correlation between crime and video games - people who play game don't have time to crime.
We're staring down the barrel of a no-deal Brexit here, give it time

But seriously, every innovation which is enjoyed by young(er) people is blamed for society's slide from the golden age of 30-40 years ago to the turmoil we're in now.
  • Now it's video games
  • Previously it was online porn
  • Prior to that it was computers in general
  • Before that it was rap/rock music
  • Before that, TV
  • Before TV, films
  • Before films, Jazz music
  • Before that, the Viennese Waltz
  • and always not enough and/or the wrong religion
  • ...and a gajillion steps between each of the above

Doubtless Ugg blamed Ugg Jr staring at cave paintings all day for the perceived lack of respect for the older generation (i.e. people over 30)
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Old 7th August 2019, 02:07 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Why can't video games contribute to the culture of violence?

I think people are just casually dismissing it because it came out of the mouth of Puritanical conservatives since the 90s.

The frequency of mass killings in the U.S. is amazingly high, but it could be driven by media coverage of other killers before them as well. Violent entertainment could be a silent contributor.

I mean I could be way off the mark here but I don't think it should be treated like a joke.
As a 32 year old that grew up on the likes of Mortal Kombat and violent movies I can assure you broader American gun culture that treats guns as sexual objects to be protected over human life is far more toxic than the entertainment i derived from violent video games.
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Old 7th August 2019, 02:56 AM   #180
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I have to admit that I would long ago have gone on a Video-Game inspired rampage if I had only found a gunstore that sells a BFG.
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Old 7th August 2019, 03:22 AM   #181
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https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status...05277693009920

Quote:
El Paso shooter: “This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.”

Tomi Lahren today: We shouldn't assign blame or point fingers about this

Lahren 3 months ago: This isn't just a migrant caravan, this is an invasion. Every American watching should be infuriated
��
Video embedded in tweet. Lahren has also blamed video games.

While this obviously doesn't apply to everybody pushing this narrative, it certainly may help explain the reasoning of some of them.
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Old 7th August 2019, 03:38 AM   #182
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Also relevant, particularly given that Tucker Carlson is an unofficial adviser to the White House who has almost daily phone calls with Trump and who advises him on matters of policy, this list details Carlson's increasingly blatant white supremacism over the past decade or so.

He's also been pushing the video games angle.
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Old 7th August 2019, 03:49 AM   #183
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I just got done playing some RacketNX. Now I am going to go buy a tennis racket and start smacking rocks at people and buildings. It's the video game influence making me do this.
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Old 7th August 2019, 04:12 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I just got done playing some RacketNX. Now I am going to go buy a tennis racket and start smacking rocks at people and buildings. It's the video game influence making me do this.

Damn straight!

I'm constantly fighting the urge to go outside and click on people walking by, forcing them to go gather wood/stone/iron/food so I can continue to build my kingdom. Dammit.
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Old 7th August 2019, 04:18 AM   #185
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I often want to reload in the middle of conversations to try a different dialog tree.
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Old 7th August 2019, 04:24 AM   #186
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Trump using mental health as a scapegoat, especially in the generalising, vague way he does it, is pretty disturbing considering how much stigma there already is towards people suffering from mental disorders. Not that he cares.
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Old 7th August 2019, 04:28 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Trump using mental health as a scapegoat, especially in the generalising, vague way he does it, is pretty disturbing considering how much stigma there already is towards people suffering from mental disorders. Not that he cares.
I think he cares very much that we're not talking about white nationalism.
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Old 7th August 2019, 04:46 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
The illusion of good faith debate went on for a long time, but after Sandy Hook, the nation as a whole, or at least as a voting body, explicitly decided that the mass murder of little children is a reasonable and bearable price to pay for our current gun rights. We can, perhaps, change the decision, but we can't say it has not already been made.
I don't really feel like they ever really dealt with any of these shootings in good faith. The standard response is basically to spam unrealistic non-solutions until enough time has passed that the news cycle has moved on.

It's a constant circuit of the usual suspects to prevent these shootings: blaming violent media, blaming family life, blaming some local official who failed to properly react to disturbing behavior, blaming the FBI for not properly following up on some vague facebook grousing, or suggesting that every public place should have prison-level security details. It's all bad-faith crap.

For once, I would just like to hear 2A advocates admit that protecting gun rights necessarily means that guns will almost always be available to those that wish to do mass shootings. Sure, lots of action can be taken to nibble around the edges and prevent a few shooters here and there, but stopping them all is beyond reach. Because that's the truth.
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Old 7th August 2019, 04:47 AM   #189
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Especially given that mental health doesn't actually appear to be a major factor in the majority of mass shootings.

It's also worth noting that Obama introduced a bill which made it harder for people with mental health issues to own guns, and one of the first things Trump did in office was to roll it back. So, whether you agree with Obama's bill or not, what Trump is doing here (although he may not know it, or may be relying on other people not to know it) is to admit to some culpability in these crimes.
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Old 7th August 2019, 05:31 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Trump using mental health as a scapegoat, especially in the generalising, vague way he does it, is pretty disturbing considering how much stigma there already is towards people suffering from mental disorders. Not that he cares.
Trump seemed very sensitive about mental disorders when all those shrinks said he was an insane narcissist with so much senile dementia even his reflection is crazy. I'm paraphrasing. Because they used bad language.
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Old 7th August 2019, 06:13 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
But seriously, every innovation which is enjoyed by young(er) people is blamed for society's slide from the golden age of 30-40 years ago to the turmoil we're in now.

I somehow managed to sit around a table with my friends rolling funny looking dice without becoming a murderous, suicidal Satanist.
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Old 7th August 2019, 06:40 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So, what things does the USA have related to these killings that other countries do not have?

1. The right to bear arms under the constitution

2. More firearms per population than any other western country

3. An aggressive gun rights lobby that bribes large numbers of politicians to vote against even the most benign gun restrictions

4. Almost no restrictions on ownership of semi-automatic weapons

5. A large number gun owners who aggressively defend their right to have guns as being more important than the lives of their fellow citizens
6. An aggressive conservative media echo chamber that for about 40 years has been pushing a white/Christian/male martyr or victimization narrative where any loss of privilege among those groups is depicted as a loss of rights, culture, or even identity.
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Old 7th August 2019, 06:47 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
6. An aggressive conservative media echo chamber that for about 40 years has been pushing a white/Christian/male martyr or victimization narrative where any loss of privilege among those groups is depicted as a loss of rights, culture, or even identity.
7. A strange cultural psychosis where despite living in the world's sole superpower in an era of unprecedented wealth, comfort, and technological advancement, people seem overwhelmed by constant fear. We live longer and better than any humans before us and most of the world at the moment, yet so many of us are consumed with terror of sinister forces, enemies within and without, and bizarre conspiracies.
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Old 7th August 2019, 08:23 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I somehow managed to sit around a table with my friends rolling funny looking dice without becoming a murderous, suicidal Satanist.
That's exactly what a murderous, suicidal Satanist *would* say
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Old 7th August 2019, 09:14 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Also relevant, particularly given that Tucker Carlson is an unofficial adviser to the White House who has almost daily phone calls with Trump and who advises him on matters of policy, this list details Carlson's increasingly blatant white supremacism over the past decade or so.

He's also been pushing the video games angle.
He has now said that white supremacy is a "hoax" and a "conspiracy theory".
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Old 7th August 2019, 09:51 AM   #196
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Shot: Tucker Carlson dismisses white nationalism as a leftist hoax

Chaser: US State department official outed as head of white nationalist organization in DC. Wanted a whites only nation with a strong nuclear arsenal.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...tch-determines
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Old 7th August 2019, 10:01 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
4. Almost no restrictions on ownership of semi-automatic weapons

5. A large number gun owners who aggressively defend their right to have guns as being more important than the lives of their fellow citizens


The having guns part isn't the real issue, it's the "having guns with you". In Canada, you can, with modest effort, obtain almost any sort of firearm you want. There are some specific models that are banned, but as gun aficionados constantly point out, there are other, functionally identical, guns you can buy in their place.

Where we differ is in the rules about where/when you can carry your guns.

In Canada, a person walking down the street casually displaying a firearm is a target for primary law enforcement: simply having a gun in that situation is, quite often, a crime in itself, and so the police can stop the person as soon as they see him. Even in cases where it's not technically illegal, it's uncommon enough to justify stopping the guy to ask some questions.

In the US, the Bad Guy With a Gun is indistinguishable from the Good Guy with a Gun right up until he starts shooting people. This is what gives them the window of opportunity to shoot people. It was mentioned above that one of the guys this week killed 9 people in the 30 seconds it took the police to respond. In Canada, he (usually) wouldn't have had that 30 seconds. The first cops to even see him with the gun would have reacted to stop him.
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Last edited by Horatius; 7th August 2019 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 7th August 2019, 10:28 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Shot: Tucker Carlson dismisses white nationalism as a leftist hoax

Chaser: US State department official outed as head of white nationalist organization in DC. Wanted a whites only nation with a strong nuclear arsenal.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...tch-determines
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Interesting how Carlson and his ilk gleefully label black lives matter a terrorist organization but can't acknowledge that white supremacy is a problem (despite the numerous lone wolf terrorist attack driven by white supremacist ideology). Disgusting...
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Old 7th August 2019, 11:00 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Shot: Tucker Carlson dismisses white nationalism as a leftist hoax

Chaser: US State department official outed as head of white nationalist organization in DC. Wanted a whites only nation with a strong nuclear arsenal.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...tch-determines
The allegations in that article are damning.

I am concerned, however, that the article gave quite explicit details on how they found the address for Gebert. Enough details that anyone could replicate the procedure, so that the article effectively doxxed Gebert. I don't have much sympathy for the man, assuming the allegations are true, but making his address available can be dangerous.

I'm not concerned about protests outside his home. As long as the reporting is accurate, those may be a reasonable response. I'm concerned about the slim but real probability that a nutcase reacts violently.
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Old 7th August 2019, 11:09 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The allegations in that article are damning.

I am concerned, however, that the article gave quite explicit details on how they found the address for Gebert. Enough details that anyone could replicate the procedure, so that the article effectively doxxed Gebert. I don't have much sympathy for the man, assuming the allegations are true, but making his address available can be dangerous.

I'm not concerned about protests outside his home. As long as the reporting is accurate, those may be a reasonable response. I'm concerned about the slim but real probability that a nutcase reacts violently.
Doxing racists and Nazis is an effective tool in the fight against fascism. There aren't as many nuts on the left as on the right, so there hasn't been an issue thus far. On the other hand, it does help to get these creatures fired from their jobs and ostracized in their community. As it should be.
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