ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags mass shootings , racism incidents , racism issues , shooting incidents , Texas incidents

Reply
Old 7th August 2019, 11:29 AM   #201
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
We're staring down the barrel of a no-deal Brexit here, give it time

But seriously, every innovation which is enjoyed by young(er) people is blamed for society's slide from the golden age of 30-40 years ago to the turmoil we're in now.
  • Now it's video games
  • Previously it was online porn
  • Prior to that it was computers in general
  • Before that it was rap/rock music
  • Before that, TV
  • Before TV, films
  • Before films, Jazz music
  • Before that, the Viennese Waltz
  • and always not enough and/or the wrong religion
  • ...and a gajillion steps between each of the above

Doubtless Ugg blamed Ugg Jr staring at cave paintings all day for the perceived lack of respect for the older generation (i.e. people over 30)
Pulp fiction comic books had their run on the hit list.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 12:16 PM   #202
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,550
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
7. A strange cultural psychosis where despite living in the world's sole superpower in an era of unprecedented wealth, comfort, and technological advancement, people seem overwhelmed by constant fear. We live longer and better than any humans before us and most of the world at the moment, yet so many of us are consumed with terror of sinister forces, enemies within and without, and bizarre conspiracies.
I think that is just because of Downton Abbey.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 12:19 PM   #203
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,550
Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Damn straight!

I'm constantly fighting the urge to go outside and click on people walking by, forcing them to go gather wood/stone/iron/food so I can continue to build my kingdom. Dammit.
I just hope there will be an appropriate thread about my contributions here as soon as the news shows a wooden tank rolling down Main St. popping our wooden projectiles and dropping mines.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 12:40 PM   #204
Cainkane1
Philosopher
 
Cainkane1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 8,642
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Trump has never said anything racist in any of his speeches. He actually dated black women many years ago. He once won an award for owning a comapny that hired the most black workers. How does that translate to racism? The kid was acting on his own and Trump as usual gets blamed for a gun crime.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.
Cainkane1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 12:42 PM   #205
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,550
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump has never said anything racist in any of his speeches. He actually dated black women many years ago. He once won an award for owning a comapny that hired the most black workers. How does that translate to racism? The kid was acting on his own and Trump as usual gets blamed for a gun crime.

Is Cainkane the new Cain? I'm so confused.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 12:53 PM   #206
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,874
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I just hope there will be an appropriate thread about my contributions here as soon as the news shows a wooden tank rolling down Main St. popping our wooden projectiles and dropping mines mimes.
Now THAT would make that game truly scary.

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump has never said anything racist in any of his speeches. He actually dated a black womenman many years ago. He once won an award for owning a comapny that hired the most black workers. How does that translate to racism? The kid was acting on his own and Trump as usual gets blamed for a gun crime.
FTFY.

He also once got sued for not renting to black people. He had his incident with the Central Park 5, and he's made a myriad of comments that are racist.

No one here, I don't think, has said the kid wasn't acting on his own. Trump wasn't there shooting alongside him. He was probably running into the buildings to save people, as he's said he would do. That doesn't mean that the kid didn't use the same words and be under the influence of Trump.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 01:16 PM   #207
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Trump is a symptom, not the cause

If you watch no other video today, you should watch this!

Princeton Professor Eddie Glaude Jr explains why its wrong to place the blame for white supremacism and white terrorism on Trumps's shoulders, because he is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Watch time 3 min

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 01:23 PM   #208
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump has never said anything racist in any of his speeches.
Then you haven't heard any of his speeches.

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
He actually dated black women many years ago.
Yeah, some of his best friends are black

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
He once won an award for owning a company that hired the most black workers.
Yeah, some of his best employees are black

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
How does that translate to racism?
Are some of your best friends black? If so, ask them, and they will explain it to you!

Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
The kid was acting on his own and Trump as usual gets blamed for a gun crime.
Then why did the kid say he was inspired by Trump's campaign rhetoric?

Also, watch the video I posted in my previous post. It will probably be over you head, but try watching anyway - perhaps some truths might sink in.
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 01:38 PM   #209
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31,607
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
*Guy gives impassioned mini-speech*
Host: What else?
Guy: ....lord help us.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 01:52 PM   #210
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9,537
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah, some of his best friends are black
Howard Stern once asked Trump if he'd ever been with a black woman - he said, "That depends on what you mean by black." Which led me to wonder what he considers black to be.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yeah, some of his best employees are black
He doesn't want him counting his money, though - for that he prefers short guys in yarmulkes.
Minoosh is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:17 PM   #211
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,713
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump has never said anything racist in any of his speeches. He actually dated black women many years ago. He once won an award for owning a comapny that hired the most black workers. How does that translate to racism? The kid was acting on his own and Trump as usual gets blamed for a gun crime.
I've given my definition of racism: ethnic chauvinism and xenophobia. We're discussing the social malignancy of discriminating against an entire group of people based on racism, in particular behavior that violates civil and human rights, but generally any racist behavior that flames hate and resentment and makes it harder for us to get along, such as derogatory speech and proudly displaying symbols of oppression.

If you'll give your definitions, I think we can discover where you're confused. If you just want to deny that Trump is a racist, please don't waste my time.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:21 PM   #212
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
*Guy gives impassioned mini-speech*
Host: What else?
Guy: ....lord help us.
I have heard this guy speak before. If you mean what you think I mean, then I think you might have misread his response. IMO he was replying to her question, not expressing frustration at it.
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:33 PM   #213
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,713
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Quote:
He actually dated black women many years ago.
Yeah, some of his best friends are black
I've heard that some of our founding fathers dated black women.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:42 PM   #214
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31,607
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I have heard this guy speak before. If you mean what you think I mean, then I think you might have misread his response. IMO he was replying to her question, not expressing frustration at it.
Very possible. I thought it was an odd response by the host, but maybe I missed something.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:45 PM   #215
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Trump has never said anything racist in any of his speeches. He actually dated black women many years ago. He once won an award for owning a comapny that hired the most black workers. How does that translate to racism? The kid was acting on his own and Trump as usual gets blamed for a gun crime.
Clearly your definition of racist speech excludes racist speech.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:46 PM   #216
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
I've heard that some of our founding fathers dated black women.
Yes, for certain definitions of "dated"!
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:47 PM   #217
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 31,607
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
He actually dated black women many years ago.
Do you mean Kara Young?
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:52 PM   #218
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 8,257
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Howard Stern once asked Trump if he'd ever been with a black woman - he said, "That depends on what you mean by black." Which led me to wonder what he considers black to be.

He doesn't want him counting his money, though - for that he prefers short guys in yarmulkes.
Kara Young is the name of the biracial woman Trump dated. Trump called into the Howard Stern Show to brag about how he "stole" her from another guy. His view that women are there for him to 'steal' further reveals that he views them as objects rather than people.

Quote:
However, there was confusion over whether the stunning catwalk model was also seeing A.J. Benza, then a gossip columnist for New York Daily News.
In a book titled ‘Ain’t Fame A B****’, Benza claimed that Young had left him for Trump in less slightly iffy circumstances.

But the love triangle took an unexpected twist when Trump called into to the Howard Stern Show to brag about “stealing” the tabloid writer’s girlfriend live on air.
In one of the most bizarre radio spats ever recorded, Trump boasted: “A.J., I won your girlfriend. You know it, she knows it, and everybody knows it.
“Trust me, A.J.—she didn’t love you.
“I’m doing you a favor, A.J., she didn’t love you.”
“A.J. doesn’t like Trump for one reason: I stole his girlfriend. I took her away like he was a dog.”
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...was-half-black



ETA: According to the NY Times, Young and Trump began dating around 1997 while he was still married to, but separated from, Marla Maples. They divorced in 1999.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 7th August 2019 at 03:01 PM.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 02:52 PM   #219
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,759
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If you watch no other video today, you should watch this!

Princeton Professor Eddie Glaude Jr explains why its wrong to place the blame for white supremacism and white terrorism on Trumps's shoulders, because he is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

<snip>

Yeah. No.

That isn't what is being done.

Trump is being blamed for taking advantage of that existing White Supremacism and white terrorism for his political advantage.

For encouraging and enabling it. For giving it a gloss of approbation from his base.

Your professor is explaining something that isn't the problem. There's probably a name for that illogic in argument.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 03:08 PM   #220
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,552
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
I somehow managed to sit around a table with my friends rolling funny looking dice without becoming a murderous, suicidal Satanist.
Remember Jack Chick's tracts on D and D?
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 03:39 PM   #221
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah. No.

That isn't what is being done.

Trump is being blamed for taking advantage of that existing White Supremacism and white terrorism for his political advantage.

For encouraging and enabling it. For giving it a gloss of approbation from his base.

Your professor is explaining something that isn't the problem. There's probably a name for that illogic in argument.
Err, no. He did not address how Trump is stirring up hatred. White Supremecism has been around since before Trump was born; since slavery itself.

Try watching it again without your "Orange Man Bad" glasses on. He was explaining the overall problem with American society, that it is fundamentally racist at its core. Trump is taking advantage of THAT!
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 03:57 PM   #222
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,552
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Err, no. He did not address how Trump is stirring up hatred. White Supremecism has been around since before Trump was born; since slavery itself.

Try watching it again without your "Orange Man Bad" glasses on. He was explaining the overall problem with American society, that it is fundamentally racist at its core. Trump is taking advantage of THAT!
Sad to see you join the "Armerica is basically Evil" crowd.
And also getting a "Kiwi Superority Complex" vibe.
I thought you were better then that.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 7th August 2019 at 04:00 PM.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 03:59 PM   #223
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,552
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah. No.

That isn't what is being done.

Trump is being blamed for taking advantage of that existing White Supremacism and white terrorism for his political advantage.

For encouraging and enabling it. For giving it a gloss of approbation from his base.

Your professor is explaining something that isn't the problem. There's probably a name for that illogic in argument.
I have problems with his sweeping "America is Fundmentally Racist" statement.
Yes, racism might be the most serous problem facing America today, but sweeping statements like that of the "America is Fudntmentllay Evil" type accomplish nothing but impress other people on the Hard Left.
And Glaude attacked Hilary Clinton back in 2016.Reminds me of the people in Germany who thought that the Social Democrats were no better then Hitler...
https://time.com/4402823/glaude-hillary-clinton/

SO forgive me I don't have much respect for Glaude. Just another ideologue who though he could make some kind of ideological point by not voting for Hilary...which he felt sure would be a "safe" protest vote because he was sure Hilary would win.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 7th August 2019 at 04:18 PM.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:10 PM   #224
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 50,169
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think that is just because of Downton Abbey.
You don't need to be afraid because of Downton Abbey, it was just Maggie Smith pretending to be Lady Violet. The real Lady Violet died in 1926 and her coffin was sealed with molten lead and buried fifty feet deep and the whole thing filled in with concrete so she cannot get out. We are safe from Lady Violet. She will never slice anyone's face off ever again.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:11 PM   #225
Scootch
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 518
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
You don't need to be afraid because of Downton Abbey, it was just Maggie Smith pretending to be Lady Violet. The real Lady Violet died in 1926 and her coffin was sealed with molten lead and buried fifty feet deep and the whole thing filled in with concrete so she cannot get out. We are safe from Lady Violet. She will never slice anyone's face off ever again.
Spoiler alert please
Scootch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:33 PM   #226
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sad to see you join the "America is basically Evil" crowd.
When you have over 40% of the citizens of your country approving of the Racist in Chief....

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

....you have a fundamental problem with racism in your country, any way you might try to slice it.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And also getting a "Kiwi Superority Complex" vibe.
Nope, because sadly, we're not that far behind you when it comes entrenched racism in this country. We might look all sweetness and light from the outside, but we have a dark core of racism here. As the Christchurch shooting showed (and I'm not talking specifically about the actual shooter himself) we have a long, long way to go before we root white supremacism out.
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:35 PM   #227
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,087
Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Interesting how Carlson and his ilk gleefully label black lives matter a terrorist organization but can't acknowledge that white supremacy is a problem (despite the numerous lone wolf terrorist attack driven by white supremacist ideology). Disgusting...
Well, Carlson is a clear white nationalist himself, so this is a very poor attempt at “hiding his power level”, basically. If anything, he’s fundamentally more iMportant to the movement than Dolt 45 is - the idiot president’s name gets shouted during about half of hate crimes these days, but he gets his ugly rhetoric from good ol’ Tucker Carlson.

(It’ll be interesting to see the next election results, but I don’t think many white people get how devastating all of this eliminationist talk is to the GOP’s relationship with Latinx communities, along with every other nonwhite group.)
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:49 PM   #228
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,552
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, Carlson is a clear white nationalist himself, so this is a very poor attempt at “hiding his power level”, basically. If anything, he’s fundamentally more iMportant to the movement than Dolt 45 is - the idiot president’s name gets shouted during about half of hate crimes these days, but he gets his ugly rhetoric from good ol’ Tucker Carlson.

(It’ll be interesting to see the next election results, but I don’t think many white people get how devastating all of this eliminationist talk is to the GOP’s relationship with Latinx communities, along with every other nonwhite group.)
What is interesting about Tucker is he did not start this White Nationalist crap until the rise of Trump. I suspect he is an opportunist, thinking this is the way to get a audience on Fox news nowdays.
You have sort of a race to the bottom going on;the right wing commentaror race is brutally competitive, and the more extreme you go the better your ratings.

And it is just me or has Fox news gotten even worse since most of the Fox corporation got eaten by the Mouse? I wonder if having some of the dislike for Fox news bouncing on the other divisions of FOx was not a bit of restrainng factor,but now that is gone.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 7th August 2019 at 04:55 PM.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 04:54 PM   #229
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,552
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
When you have over 40% of the citizens of your country approving of the Racist in Chief....

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...roval-ratings/

....you have a fundamental problem with racism in your country, any way you might try to slice it.



Nope, because sadly, we're not that far behind you when it comes entrenched racism in this country. We might look all sweetness and light from the outside, but we have a dark core of racism here. As the Christchurch shooting showed (and I'm not talking specifically about the actual shooter himself) we have a long, long way to go before we root white supremacism out.
There is a difference between saying racism is a fundamental problem and a country is fundamtnally racist, and Glaude IMHO Is saying the latter.
Anyway, he way to far to the left for my taste. And he is like to many academics who dabble in politics;he comes up short on the practical steps to be taken to fix a problem.
And you will never root white supremacism totally out,human nature being what it is, just as the US will never totally root out racism. Reduce it to a minor factor, yes, but you will never eliminate it completely. That is Utopian and totally unrealistic.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 05:02 PM   #230
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,087
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Is Cainkane the new Cain? I'm so confused.
He's been like this the entire time - it's just that it took all this for you to notice.

I picked up on it...at least 4 years ago.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 05:23 PM   #231
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,021
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is interesting about Tucker is he did not start this White Nationalist crap until the rise of Trump. I suspect he is an opportunist, thinking this is the way to get a audience on Fox news nowdays.
You have sort of a race to the bottom going on;the right wing commentaror race is brutally competitive, and the more extreme you go the better your ratings.

And it is just me or has Fox news gotten even worse since most of the Fox corporation got eaten by the Mouse? I wonder if having some of the dislike for Fox news bouncing on the other divisions of FOx was not a bit of restrainng factor,but now that is gone.
Eeehhhh, no. Carlson has always been a white nationalist. Maybe some of the language was different.

Tucker Carlson's descent into white supremacy: A timeline
Quote:
July 6, 2007: Carlson said President Barack Obama “sounds like a pothead.” During his tenure as a host on MSNBC, Carlson discussed a speech then-Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) gave during his first presidential campaign, asking, “How high is this guy?” and if “he always talks between bong hits.”

August 24, 2007: Carlson called the NAACP "a sad joke that should be shut down.” Carlson discussed former NFL player Michael Vick’s guilty plea to dogfighting charges and asserted that the NAACP was defending Vick. Carlson called the organization “a sad joke that should be shut down, I think, immediately for the sake of everybody.”

January 11, 2010: Carlson said that when Democrats say then-Sen. Harry Reid supports civil rights, “what they're saying is he's for racial set-asides.”....
And so on.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 05:51 PM   #232
Frank Newgent
Philosopher
 
Frank Newgent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,556
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
If you watch no other video today, you should watch this!

Princeton Professor Eddie Glaude Jr explains why its wrong to place the blame for white supremacism and white terrorism on Trumps's shoulders, because he is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Watch time 3 min

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
thanks for posting that.
__________________
Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski
Frank Newgent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 07:53 PM   #233
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,759
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Err, no. He did not address how Trump is stirring up hatred. White Supremecism has been around since before Trump was born; since slavery itself.

I never said he did. Please try to follow the conversation.

I responded (please see highlighting in relevant post) to the "its wrong to place the blame for white supremacism and white terrorism on Trumps's shoulders", because that is answering to an argument which isn't being made, or even in dispute.

Quote:

Try watching it again without your "Orange Man Bad" glasses on. He was explaining the overall problem with American society, that it is fundamentally racist at its core. Trump is taking advantage of THAT!

Try responding to posts without whatever sort of blinders you're wearing. Maybe it will help you to actually read them first.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 07:58 PM   #234
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,759
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Is Cainkane the new Cain? I'm so confused.
He's been like this the entire time - it's just that it took all this for you to notice.

I picked up on it...at least 4 years ago.

There is an essential distinction. Cain is trolling with Poes, and has made that abundantly clear over those years.

Cainkane isn't, and hasn't.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 09:19 PM   #235
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,191
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I never said he did. Please try to follow the conversation.

I responded (please see highlighting in relevant post) to the "its wrong to place the blame for white supremacism and white terrorism on Trumps's shoulders", because that is answering to an argument which isn't being made, or even in dispute.




Try responding to posts without whatever sort of blinders you're wearing. Maybe it will help you to actually read them first.
Never mind
__________________
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore - if they're white!"
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 10:58 PM   #236
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
There is a difference between saying racism is a fundamental problem and a country is fundamtnally racist, and Glaude IMHO Is saying the latter.

You are really fishing for the subtle nuances to make your country appear to be great again, aren't you?

Quote:
Anyway, he way to far to the left for my taste. And he is like to many academics who dabble in politics;he comes up short on the practical steps to be taken to fix a problem.

We already know that anyone to the left of Hillary Clinton is far too left for your taste.

Quote:
And you will never root white supremacism totally out, human nature being what it is, just as the US will never totally root out racism. Reduce it to a minor factor, yes, but you will never eliminate it completely. That is Utopian and totally unrealistic.

This is how you trivialize and downplay US American racism!
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 7th August 2019 at 11:02 PM.
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 11:17 PM   #237
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, Carlson is a clear white nationalist himself, so this is a very poor attempt at “hiding his power level”, basically. If anything, he’s fundamentally more iMportant to the movement than Dolt 45 is - the idiot president’s name gets shouted during about half of hate crimes these days, but he gets his ugly rhetoric from good ol’ Tucker Carlson.

(It’ll be interesting to see the next election results, but I don’t think many white people get how devastating all of this eliminationist talk is to the GOP’s relationship with Latinx communities, along with every other nonwhite group.)

Tucker Carlson is definitely pandering to white nationalism, but I actually think that he's worse than that. I think that he knows exactly what he's doing: He is stoking the flames of white supremacy in his impoverished white audience because he knows full well that as long as they're busy blaming the blacks and the immigrants, they will consider the white billionaires to be their allies and their tax cuts irrelevant. The impoverished white are actually hoping that the billionaire class will somehow come their senses, recognize that the Cratchits love them despite their abuse, find the spirit of Christmas and buy them all a Christmas turkey (and health insurance for Tiny Tim) - and send the darkies home! (The latter were ignored in Dickens' fairy tale, of course.)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 11:26 PM   #238
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have problems with his sweeping "America is Fundmentally Racist" statement.
Yes, racism might be the most serous problem facing America today, but sweeping statements like that of the "America is Fudntmentllay Evil" type accomplish nothing but impress other people on the Hard Left.

Why turn "America is fundamentally racist" into "America is fundamentally evil"?!
(And, no, it actually doesn't impress me at all! And I don't need impressing ....)

Quote:
And Glaude attacked Hilary Clinton back in 2016.Reminds me of the people in Germany who thought that the Social Democrats were no better then Hitler...
https://time.com/4402823/glaude-hillary-clinton/

SO forgive me I don't have much respect for Glaude. Just another ideologue who though he could make some kind of ideological point by not voting for Hilary...which he felt sure would be a "safe" protest vote because he was sure Hilary would win.

Yes, if somebody go after CLINTON, they must be bad ideologues!
Although I don't see what's wrong with his reasoning:

Quote:
Democratic values centered on economic and racial justice shape my own politics. I’m not convinced those values shape hers. Nothing Clinton says or intends to do if elected will fundamentally transform the circumstances of the most vulnerable in this country—even with her concessions to the Sanders campaign. Like the majority of Democratic politicians these days, she is a corporate Democrat intent on maintaining the status quo. And I have had enough of all of them.

Based on that argument, I can't see him voting for Biden either, which is probably your definiton of a bad ideologue in the current situation, isn't it?! Anybody who goes against your guy!
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th August 2019, 11:36 PM   #239
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,232
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sad to see you join the "Armerica is basically Evil" crowd.
And also getting a "Kiwi Superority Complex" vibe.
I thought you were better then that.

He actually is better than that since 'that' is your own strawman. What smartcooky said was that "White Supremecism has been around since before Trump was born; since slavery itself."
What is your problem with that?! Isn't white supremacism much older than Trump?
Is it wrong to stress that this is the case just because it threatens your denial about what your country is?

I never thought that you were better than that.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th August 2019, 01:25 AM   #240
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 24,846
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is interesting about Tucker is he did not start this White Nationalist crap until the rise of Trump.
He did, but it became more frequent and more blatant under Trump. I posted a link upthread which details his rhetoric over the years.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:47 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.