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Tags Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez , Kentucky incidents , Mitch McConnell

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Old 6th August 2019, 08:32 AM   #1
plague311
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AOC offended Team Mitch gets gropey

AOC is getting all uppity and:

Quote:
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez called out Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Monday night after a photo surfaced on social media, showing a group of young men “groping and choking” a cardboard cutout of the freshman congresswoman — while wearing shirts that read “Team Mitch.”
I have no idea in what context this happens, the article is a bit light on information. From an NBC article:

Quote:
Some of those in the photo are seen making a “thumbs down” sign, while one is seen “choking” the cardboard resembling the freshman congresswoman and another “kissing” the cutout while hugging it around its waist
The GOP is borderline obsessed with AOC.
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:35 AM   #2
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To be fair, who would willingly touch Mitch? His own team would rather kiss a cardboard replica of his enemy. I'm not saying Mitch is a hideous deathshead marionette, but he did get kicked out of Icecrown Citadel for being too corpsey.
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:51 AM   #3
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As much as I hate Moscow Mitch, what does he have to do with kids who wear shirts about him? And that's essentially a storm in a teacup. There's no news there. Oh, no! These youths are groping a cardboard cutout! That's so dehumanising!
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
AOC is getting all uppity and:

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez called out Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Monday night after a photo surfaced on social media, showing a group of young men “groping and choking” a cardboard cutout of the freshman congresswoman — while wearing shirts that read “Team Mitch.”
I think the important thing to remember is that its the left wing that supports violence.

/sarcasm


From another article:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ocas...ry?id=64801761
...McConnell’s campaign manager Kevin Golden says the young men in the photo are high schoolers and not employed by the campaign. He added that the campaign does not “condone” this behavior, but did not specifically denounce it either.
...
The teens are supporters who attended an annual political picnic in Kentucky.


And of course not to just leave it there, they had to get in their little 'whataboutism'...

“We've watched for years as the far-left and the media look for every possible way to demonize, stereotype, and publicly castigate every young person who dares to get involved with Republican politics,” Golden said. “Team Mitch in no way condones any aggressive, suggestive, or demeaning act toward life sized cardboard cutouts of any gender in a manner similar to what we saw from President Obama's speech writing staff several years ago,”
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:55 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
As much as I hate Moscow Mitch, what does he have to do with kids who wear shirts about him? And that's essentially a storm in a teacup. There's no news there. Oh, no! These youths are groping a cardboard cutout! That's so dehumanising!
All of it took place at his event. They weren't just wearing shirts about him, they were at an actual fundraiser\event for Mitch. That's where they got the shirts.

Thank you for sharing your opinion about not giving a **** that this happened. I'm assuming now that you won't be engaging further because this isn't news and is beneath you, yeah?
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:58 AM   #6
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A little more about it (from Snopes):

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/team-mitch-aoc/
On August 3, 2019, several Kentucky politicians and political candidates descended on Fancy Farm, Kentucky, for the annual St. Jerome Catholic Church Picnic....U.S. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who is facing reelection in 2020, was among the speakers there. “Team Mitch” T-shirts were a fixture of the event, as were cardboard cutouts of politicians from all sides of the political spectrum.

So it was (in part) a church thing.
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Old 6th August 2019, 08:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
AOC is getting all uppity...The GOP is borderline obsessed with AOC.
They do seem to fear her and I'm not really sure why. She's a first term, Hispanic member of Congress from New York. With the Clintons I got it. If anyone could unite working class / middle-class voters across racial lines, the GOP is finished as a major party. Bill Clinton was the GOP's worst nightmare: a charismatic working class white Southerner who was a Democrat.

The McConnell staff has denied the young men in the photo are members of Team Mitch. They claim they are high school students.
Quote:
“Team Mitch in no way condones any aggressive, suggestive, or demeaning act toward life-sized cardboard cutouts of any gender,” said McConnell campaign spokesman Kevin Golden. Link
.
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File Type: jpg Team Mitch.jpg (66.8 KB, 27 views)
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
AOC is getting all uppity and:



I have no idea in what context this happens, the article is a bit light on information. From an NBC article:



The GOP is borderline obsessed with AOC.
What level of outrage are we supposed to have about men mistreating cardboard cutouts of women? Do we ignore it? Do we say we disapprove and then move on? Do we demand some sort of action from politicians? Do we try to get them fired from their jobs? What's the standard you would like to see here?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
They do seem to fear her and I'm not really sure why. She's a first term, Hispanic member of Congress from New York. With the Clintons I got it. If anyone could unite working class / middle-class voters across racial lines, the GOP is finished as a major party. Bill Clinton was the GOP's worst nightmare: a charismatic working class white Southerner who was a Democrat.
I completely agree.

Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The McConnell staff has denied the young men in the photo are members of Team Mitch. They claim they are high school students.
One of them has apparently apologized as well. It sucks that this type of inappropriate behavior gets shrugged off. If she were a man with these views the thought wouldn't even cross these stupid little kids' minds. Since she's an attractive, assertive woman she just has to deal with these actions because...reasons. Apparently.
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Last edited by plague311; 6th August 2019 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:06 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What level of outrage are we supposed to have about men mistreating cardboard cutouts of women?
None, if it doesn't bother you then just ******* move on.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do we ignore it?
Obviously you can't, but if you don't give a ****, I don't know why you'd participate. That's the neat new thing here though. For some reason you have to post in a thread to tell everyone how much you don't care about the topic of the thread.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do we say we disapprove and then move on?
If you want, no rules from me.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do we demand some sort of action from politicians?
I'm not demanding ****. It was on my news feed, and it was relevant to politics in that it a) happened at a political event b) included people involved in politics c) was degrading to someone in congress.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do we try to get them fired from their jobs?
I don't even know that they have jobs. I think they're high schoolers.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What's the standard you would like to see here?
I don't have a standard because I wasn't specifically calling anyone to action. I posted something that I felt was newsworthy. Just like you corrected someone about assault weapons in a thread that no one cared about the information you presented. You obviously felt some level of butthurt to go off on a tangent of questions.
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Last edited by plague311; 6th August 2019 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
As much as I hate Moscow Mitch, what does he have to do with kids who wear shirts about him? And that's essentially a storm in a teacup. There's no news there. Oh, no! These youths are groping a cardboard cutout! That's so dehumanising!
Remember, after Kathy Griffin had her picture taken with a fake head resembling Trump, the republicans went ballistic, despite the fact that she had nothing to do with the 2016 election campaign. (And afterwards she did issue an apology of sorts, suggesting she 'went to far'.)

Now, here you have a bunch of people who are engaging in the same sort of imagery (i.e. suggesting harm on a political figure), but the individuals involved have not issued any sort of apology (at least that I'm aware of), and the Turtle's campaign team's attempts to distance themselves from the photo basically involved a bunch of 'whataboutisms'.

Frankly, I'd say the photo with AOC is a bit more disturbing. Kathy Griffin is a comedian; at least some of what she does is part of her attempts at show biz. On the other hand, the actions of the students in the photo seem to be of a more genuine "I have no problem disrespecting this person".
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:09 AM   #12
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Mitch posted a picture of tombstones of the candidates who ran against him in Kentucky in the past - including the current one.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-tweet-1448627

Moscow Turtle is intentionally provoking, forcing the GOP to support him even when the despise him.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Thank you for sharing your opinion about not giving a **** that this happened.
Well, that escalated quickly. Why do you take this so personally?

Kids being stupid isn't exactly news, and it doesn't say anything about Mitch McConnell who, might I remind you, is an ass hole of colossal proportions already?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Remember, after Kathy Griffin had her picture taken with a fake head resembling Trump, the republicans went ballistic, despite the fact that she had nothing to do with the 2016 election campaign. (And afterwards she did issue an apology of sorts, suggesting she 'went to far'.)
Yeah, it's silly when they do it, too.

I just can't get worked up about teenagers doing stupid things to inanimate objects.

Quote:
On the other hand, the actions of the students in the photo seem to be of a more genuine "I have no problem disrespecting this person".
And what about when we call Trump and Republicans all sorts of nasty names here? Is that not disrespecting them? Or do they deserve our heated disagreement and not AOC?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well, that escalated quickly. Why do you take this so personally?
I didn't realize I took it personally. Thanks for clarifying.

I don't understand why people think swearing means a person is upset, offended, or took something personally. You openly said, and continue to say, that this isn't news and it means exactly nothing.

So why participate? I just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Kids being stupid isn't exactly news, and it doesn't say anything about Mitch McConnell who, might I remind you, is an ass hole of colossal proportions already?
It apparently is news as I found it on my...Google News feed. What you mean to say is it isn't news to you. That would be accurate.

Mitch McConnell is an *******, and this took place at one of his events.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What level of outrage are we supposed to have about men mistreating cardboard cutouts of women? Do we ignore it? Do we say we disapprove and then move on? Do we demand some sort of action from politicians?
How about an apology from the individuals involved?

How about a straight forward castigation by Moscow Mitch, along the lines of "suggesting violence against our political opponents is wrong", without engaging in any sort of "whataboutisms"?

How about an acknowledgement of the huge amount of hypocrisy in the republican party, that condemns Kathy Griffin for her photo with a fake head resembling Trump, but which seems to be quite fine with suggested violence against AOC.
Quote:
Do we try to get them fired from their jobs? What's the standard you would like to see here?
Absent an apology, I'd like to see them fired from their jobs (or, since they were high schoolers, I'd like to see any future employers shy away from hiring them, at least the one that was suggesting 'strangling'). But since they are from Kentucky (one of the more backwards states in the U.S.) they are more likely to be regarded as heroes.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I didn't realize I took it personally. Thanks for clarifying.
Well I can only speak for myself but I don't usually use bleeped-out words when I'm perfectly calm.

Quote:
I don't understand why people think swearing means a person is upset, offended, or took something personally.
The reason being that you, plague311, usually don't spread these swear words in your posts, so when they're present, I kind of think you're at least a bit miffed.

Quote:
So why participate? I just don't get it.
You don't get why I'd comment about the fact that I don't understand why something I don't consider to be news makes the news and gets people worked up? Don't we do that all the time?

Quote:
It apparently is news as I found it on my...Google News feed.
Just because some news media think they can get sweet sponsor money by making me click on their article doesn't mean I have to agree that the story is newsworthy.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well I can only speak for myself but I don't usually use bleeped-out words when I'm perfectly calm.
I've explained several times that I am, obviously, different than most others. I swear all of the time, both typing and talking. In fact, I believe you and I had this exact conversation when this happened last time.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The reason being that you, plague311, usually don't spread these swear words in your posts, so when they're present, I kind of think you're at least a bit miffed.
You sure? I would bet if you meandered around and took a browse at the bulk of my posts you'd see an above average level of asterisks. I actually have to put forth mental effort to not swear in posts. It takes a lot of work.

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You don't get why I'd comment about the fact that I don't understand why something I don't consider to be news makes the news and gets people worked up? Don't we do that all the time?
Yup, that was my point. I've never personally done it that I remember. I don't get the point of it. You hop in to say "this isn't newsworthy" for no other sake than to let others know? Why? How does this progress the conversation at all? Or is the goal to kill it?

Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Just because some news media think they can get sweet sponsor money by making me click on their article doesn't mean I have to agree that the story is newsworthy.
You're absolutely right, but if something isn't newsworthy or interesting to me I just don't engage. Simple as that. This has happened in a few threads I've started lately. There are hundreds of threads on this forum that I don't find interesting and not one have I entered just to tell everyone involved that the subject doesn't interest me.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:27 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I just can't get worked up about teenagers doing stupid things to inanimate objects.
Even if you chalk up their actions to just "teenagers doing stupid things", those teenagers could apologize. (After all, its been several days; they must have had at least a few more rational people to talk some sense into them.)

And even if you absolve the teenagers due to their age, you have the question: Why isn't Moscow Mitch more straight forward with his condemnations? Why the 'whataboutism'?
Quote:
And what about when we call Trump and Republicans all sorts of nasty names here? Is that not disrespecting them? Or do they deserve our heated disagreement and not AOC?
The issue with AOC was not just the disrespect. (If it were just the teenagers giving a thumbs-down it probably wouldn't be an issue.) It was the imagery that suggested violence (the mock strangulation). People here may disrespect republicans (I regularly call Trump "Stubby McBonespurs" and Mitch McConnell "The Turtle" and "Moscow Mitch"), but I have never called for violence against said people, and I'm not aware of anyone here who has.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
As much as I hate Moscow Mitch, what does he have to do with kids who wear shirts about him? And that's essentially a storm in a teacup. There's no news there. Oh, no! These youths are groping a cardboard cutout! That's so dehumanising!
You seriously don't see the problem?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:31 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Even if you chalk up their actions to just "teenagers doing stupid things", those teenagers could apologize. (After all, its been several days; they must have had at least a few more rational people to talk some sense into them.)

And even if you absolve the teenagers due to their age, you have the question: Why isn't Moscow Mitch more straight forward with his condemnations? Why the 'whataboutism'?

The issue with AOC was not just the disrespect. (If it were just the teenagers giving a thumbs-down it probably wouldn't be an issue.) It was the imagery that suggested violence (the mock strangulation). People here may disrespect republicans (I regularly call Trump "Stubby McBonespurs" and Mitch McConnell "The Turtle" and "Moscow Mitch"), but I have never called for violence against said people, and I'm not aware of anyone here who has.
To be fair, the kid that posted the picture has apologized for it being insensitive. None of the other kids have mentioned anything:

Quote:
Subsequently, the individual who initially posted the photo issued an apology on Instagram that shows a piece of white paper with the message “I was wrong…I’m sorry” and a caption apologizing to Ocasio-Cortez, McConnell and others for the group’s “insensitive actions.”
The typical, "Sorry we got caught" apology.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:33 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What level of outrage are we supposed to have about men mistreating cardboard cutouts of women? Do we ignore it? Do we say we disapprove and then move on? Do we demand some sort of action from politicians? Do we try to get them fired from their jobs? What's the standard you would like to see here?
I give up. How outraged should we be at the POTUS cheering about shooting immigrants?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And what about when we call Trump and Republicans all sorts of nasty names here? Is that not disrespecting them? Or do they deserve our heated disagreement and not AOC?
Don't bother bringing in Trump. There's a much better comparison.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Don't bother bringing in Trump. There's a much better comparison.
Ok, **** them too.

So now what?

ETA: Are you unaware that I have the ability to deride the actions of any ******* democrat I want? I am not so partisan that I feel the need to defend every action performed by people on the left. It's actually super easy.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:39 AM   #25
newyorkguy
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Where do high schoolers get a life sized cutout of someone? I see life size cutouts of AOC advertised on eBay and Amazon but they're forty and fifty bucks.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:41 AM   #26
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Where do high schoolers get a life sized cutout of someone? I see life size cutouts of AOC advertised on eBay and Amazon but they're forty and fifty bucks.
I suspect that cutout is now in one of those boys' bedrooms.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:42 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I've explained several times that I am, obviously, different than most others. I swear all of the time, both typing and talking. In fact, I believe you and I had this exact conversation when this happened last time.
Well, **** me!

Quote:
You sure?
Actually, no. Maybe you're always angry?

Quote:
Yup, that was my point. I've never personally done it that I remember. I don't get the point of it.
The point is to voice my opinion that this isn't a big deal.

Quote:
You're absolutely right, but if something isn't newsworthy or interesting to me I just don't engage. Simple as that.
Well you do you, and I do me.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:43 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Even if you chalk up their actions to just "teenagers doing stupid things", those teenagers could apologize.
For what? Dicking around with a cardboard cutout of someone they probably don't like?

Quote:
And even if you absolve the teenagers due to their age, you have the question: Why isn't Moscow Mitch more straight forward with his condemnations? Why the 'whataboutism'?
Because he's more reptile than man, I guess.

Quote:
It was the imagery that suggested violence (the mock strangulation).
Suggested. Like video games, I don't ascribe much meaning to fictional violence.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You seriously don't see the problem?
I'm sure you thought your post was going to convey something important, but I think you hit submit before typing the rest of it.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:46 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Ok, **** them too.
I thought you didn't have a standard?

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So now what?
Beats me. Maybe Twitter will update their TOS to not allow mistreatment of cardboard cutouts?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:46 AM   #30
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Don't bother bringing in Trump. There's a much better comparison.
Yup, some Obama staffers had pictures taken treating a Hillary Clinton photo in a less than flattering situation. (No strangulation of the photo however...)

Of course, one of those involved in the photo issued a quick apology, and there was no attempt to claim 'the other side did bad things too'. Compare that to the situation with the AOC cutout (which DOES involve strangulation, in case you need to be reminded), where the rebuke from McConnell's side was filled with whataboutisms. And someone did say that an apology was given, but not from the students in the picture but just from the one posting the picture.

So yeah, not exactly a perfect comparison is it.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:48 AM   #31
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It seems a bit hypocritical that Republican politicians can blame "culture" in the form of video games, music, and television when extremely bad things like spree murders happen, yet insist that the actual admitted, documented behavior of their supporters doesn't signify anything and is meaningless and consequence-free. If I shoot an NPC in a video game I'm participating in a culture of violence. If I strangle a cardboard cutout of an actual politician it's meaningless.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:48 AM   #32
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Where do high schoolers get a life sized cutout of someone? I see life size cutouts of AOC advertised on eBay and Amazon but they're forty and fifty bucks.
The Snopes article gives more details.

It was at some sort of Church-organized event in Kentucky. They had cutouts there of multiple political figures (of various political leanings). They just had their photo taken with one of the cutouts provided at the event.
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:50 AM   #33
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First hats and now shirts are threatening?

Why do Democrats hate clothes?
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Old 6th August 2019, 09:58 AM   #34
plague311
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I thought you didn't have a standard?
I don't, that's why they both get the same treatment.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Beats me. Maybe Twitter will update their TOS to not allow mistreatment of cardboard cutouts?
Uh, ok.
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:02 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Uh, ok.
That's kind of my feeling about this whole story.
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:03 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Quote:
Even if you chalk up their actions to just "teenagers doing stupid things", those teenagers could apologize.
For what? Dicking around with a cardboard cutout of someone they probably don't like?
The U.S. is in a very precarious position right now... you have a president who uses extremely divisive rhetoric, and incidences of violence are commonplace. Terrorist attacks by those with alt-right motivations are increasing. (And some of those attacks seem to be motivated by the rhetoric.)

I doubt very much whether any of the people in the photo would actually harm AOC if they encountered her in real life, but they should recognize that when things are that problematic in the U.S., engaging in such behavior is problematic.

Quote:
Quote:
And even if you absolve the teenagers due to their age, you have the question: Why isn't Moscow Mitch more straight forward with his condemnations? Why the 'whataboutism'?
Because he's more reptile than man, I guess.
Are you conceding that the way the Turtle handled the issue was wrong?
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger...
You seriously don't see the problem?
I'm sure you thought your post was going to convey something important, but I think you hit submit before typing the rest of it.
In the era of the MeToo movement, there is a tendency for some to recognize that not only does society have to address actual real acts of sexual harrasement/violence, but some of the attitudes that led to women being treated poorly in the first place.

If someone disrespects a cutout (treating it in a sexual manor), it may be reasonable to think they may have a general disrespect for the gender.

Granted, these were republicans, so we're pretty sure they're racist and sexist anyways.
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:04 AM   #37
plague311
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's kind of my feeling about this whole story.
Yet here you are, continuing to participate. Which we're all grateful for, I assure you.
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:07 AM   #38
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yup, some Obama staffers had pictures taken treating a Hillary Clinton photo in a less than flattering situation. (No strangulation of the photo however...)

Of course, one of those involved in the photo issued a quick apology, and there was no attempt to claim 'the other side did bad things too'. Compare that to the situation with the AOC cutout (which DOES involve strangulation, in case you need to be reminded), where the rebuke from McConnell's side was filled with whataboutisms. And someone did say that an apology was given, but not from the students in the picture but just from the one posting the picture.

So yeah, not exactly a perfect comparison is it.
Nothing is a "perfect comparison" unless they are identical, in which case comparison is basically superfluous.
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What level of outrage are we supposed to have about men mistreating cardboard cutouts of women? Do we ignore it? Do we say we disapprove and then move on? Do we demand some sort of action from politicians? Do we try to get them fired from their jobs? What's the standard you would like to see here?

I don't know. What level of outrage would you consider appropriate if somebody 'mistreated' an effigy of Donald Trump?
LIBERAL HATE-BAITER KATHY GRIFFIN CHANNELS HER INNER ISIS, DOES ‘COMEDY’ WITH BLOODY SEVERED TRUMP HEAD


ETA: Segnoaur beat me to it!
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Old 6th August 2019, 10:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Ok, **** them too.

So now what?
So now move on. No need to keep harping on this inconsequential crap like it's the biggest political thing ever.
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