ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th April 2019, 01:09 AM   #1
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,138
Origin of Life: Another attempt

This article amused me

https://phys.org/news/2019-04-earlie...ds-oceans.html

Earliest life may have arisen in ponds, not oceans

Since there is one common molecular ancestor for all life on earth, and thus probably in the universe, this should read

Earliest life may have arisen in pond not ocean.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 01:26 AM   #2
RecoveringYuppy
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,576
Next time, post the link, skip the wrong.
__________________
REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years.

Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 01:35 AM   #3
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,138
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Next time, post the link, skip the wrong.
I don't follow, I posted the link.
People keep suggesting that one self replicating molecule ate the competitors, with no evidence the competitors ever existed.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 07:48 AM   #4
RecoveringYuppy
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,576
Posting the link was a good thing. Your commentary, especially your apparent amusement at what you think is a mistake, is wrong.

We have evidence of a single common DNA based ancestor, we don't have evidence of a single common molecular ancestor. There is no reason to think that "pond" is more accurate than "ponds".

There is also no support at all for life being singular in the universe. I think scientific opinion would be the opposite, that at least bacterial life is common. That would be largely based on how fast it showed up on Earth. Complicated and even intelligent life is another matter. Opinion is largely divided there.
__________________
REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years.

Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 07:51 AM   #5
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 72,823
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
...

Since there is one common molecular ancestor for all life on earth, and thus probably in the universe, this should read

Earliest life may have arisen in pond not ocean.
That may be a misconception about replicating molecules which could have evolved and intermingled their genetic material before strains of single-celled organisms were established.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 10:54 AM   #6
cjameshuff
Thinker
 
cjameshuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That may be a misconception about replicating molecules which could have evolved and intermingled their genetic material before strains of single-celled organisms were established.
For that matter, they continued to intermingle genetic material after forming cells. Once there were cells, it probably took some time to develop the molecular machinery needed to produce a reliably replicating one-cell, one-genome system, and even that didn't stop the mingling. Even puddles of chemistry that eventually developed that pattern likely built on the debris of earlier false starts and dead-ends that didn't sustain replication themselves but left their mark anyway.

It's not like there was a single molecule that started replicating in a lifeless pond, formed cells, and went on to become the basis for all ensuing life on the planet. The beginning of life (and for that matter, its subsequent history) was far messier than that. And the fact that it seems to have appeared about as soon as the planet could support it hints that it's probably not all that unique.
cjameshuff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 12:40 PM   #7
Samson
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,138
Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
For that matter, they continued to intermingle genetic material after forming cells. Once there were cells, it probably took some time to develop the molecular machinery needed to produce a reliably replicating one-cell, one-genome system, and even that didn't stop the mingling. Even puddles of chemistry that eventually developed that pattern likely built on the debris of earlier false starts and dead-ends that didn't sustain replication themselves but left their mark anyway.

It's not like there was a single molecule that started replicating in a lifeless pond, formed cells, and went on to become the basis for all ensuing life on the planet. The beginning of life (and for that matter, its subsequent history) was far messier than that. And the fact that it seems to have appeared about as soon as the planet could support it hints that it's probably not all that unique.
If conditions were so favourable it should have involved independent origin in far flung locations on the planet, and a gradual meeting of competing forms. This makes the one common ancestor problematic in my view. I am considering simple logic here.
Samson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 02:02 PM   #8
cjameshuff
Thinker
 
cjameshuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
If conditions were so favourable it should have involved independent origin in far flung locations on the planet, and a gradual meeting of competing forms.
It'd be quite easy for the relative timescales of development of life and colonization of the globe to be such that that didn't happen, but even if it wasn't...so what? There's no indication that isn't exactly what happened.


Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This makes the one common ancestor problematic in my view. I am considering simple logic here.
"X implies Y, where Y is an outcome I dislike, therefore not X" is not a logical argument.
cjameshuff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 02:09 PM   #9
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,636
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This article amused me

https://phys.org/news/2019-04-earlie...ds-oceans.html

Earliest life may have arisen in ponds, not oceans

Since there is one common molecular ancestor for all life on earth, and thus probably in the universe, this should read

Earliest life may have arisen in pond not ocean.
So in all the universe there is only one example not merely of intelligent life forms, but even of the appearance of microscopic pond life. If you think it probable that this happened only once in the universe. It goes without saying that you think it happened in only one pond in the single planet in which life began.

It happened only on Earth out of the untold billions of planets in the universe. But on earth it happened in lots of different places. That doesn't make sense.

Last edited by Craig B; 13th April 2019 at 02:11 PM.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 02:23 PM   #10
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,874
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I don't follow, I posted the link.
People keep suggesting that one self replicating molecule ate the competitors, with no evidence the competitors ever existed.
People where? Show your work.

And yes, people develop competing theories about things that happened billions of years ago. Then they test them, often indirectly. The MIT study suggests that nitrogen availability in the ocean has been overestimated. Someone else will come along to poke holes in the MIT theory. It's one small piece in a vast puzzle.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 02:27 PM   #11
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,874
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
So in all the universe there is only one example not merely of intelligent life forms, but even of the appearance of microscopic pond life. If you think it probable that this happened only once in the universe. It goes without saying that you think it happened in only one pond in the single planet in which life began.

It happened only on Earth out of the untold billions of planets in the universe. But on earth it happened in lots of different places. That doesn't make sense.
I think he's mocking the "one common ancestor" claim.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 02:53 PM   #12
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 72,823
This is another one of those subjects that is incredibly complex and people not familiar with the science think of it like one might see engineering in baby block terms.

How many times did multicellularity evolve?

This is a webpage of multiple forum inputs worth skimming to get an idea of just how complicated 'abiogenesis to single common ancestor' actually was.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 13th April 2019 at 02:56 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th April 2019, 04:34 PM   #13
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 11,133
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Posting the link was a good thing. Your commentary, especially your apparent amusement at what you think is a mistake, is wrong.

We have evidence of a single common DNA based ancestor, we don't have evidence of a single common molecular ancestor. There is no reason to think that "pond" is more accurate than "ponds".

There is also no support at all for life being singular in the universe. I think scientific opinion would be the opposite, that at least bacterial life is common. That would be largely based on how fast it showed up on Earth. Complicated and even intelligent life is another matter. Opinion is largely divided there.
This.

Geologically speaking, life appeared on the earth at almost the very instant it was possible for it to survive on earth.

The earth is about 4.54 billion years old, and while the earliest undisputed evidence of life on Earth dates from about 3.5 bya, there is plenty of research that points to a much earlier beginning, as little as half a million years after its formation.

https://phys.org/news/2018-08-timesc...ife-earth.html

"....we were able to show that the Last Universal Common Ancestor of all cellular life forms, 'LUCA', existed very early in Earth's history, almost 4.5 Billion years ago—not long after Earth was impacted by the planet Theia, the event which sterilised Earth and led to the formation of the Moon.

"This is significantly earlier than the currently accepted oldest fossil evidence would suggest."


If life really did come like a shot to the earth shortly after its formation, then in all likelihood, the same processes may have delivered life to other planets in our solar system; Venus, Mars, Europa, Callisto, even Titan. Also, since we are very sure that solar systems form generally in the same way, by accretion where planets begin as dust grains in orbit around the central protostar, it stands to reason that those same processes are likely to have occurred on planets around other stars.

And how do we know that accretion is not something peculiar to the way our solar system was formed from the pro-sun?
Because we see it happening around other protostars?


ALMA (Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array) image
of the accretion disk around the protostar HL Tauri
__________________
#THEYAREUS
The Mueller Report must be released to Congress in full - If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should also have nothing to fear!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 06:42 AM   #14
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,155
Please, please send probes with drills and fishing rods to Europa, Enceladus and Titan in my time! (I wouldn't know what to use as bait, though.)
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 12:40 PM   #15
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 11,133
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Please, please send probes with drills and fishing rods to Europa, Enceladus and Titan in my time! (I wouldn't know what to use as bait, though.)
"The Cassini spacecraft and Huygens probe found dunes, river valleys, and lakes of liquid methane and ethane on Titan. Says Cable: “As a chemist, that really fascinates me, because any life we might find in these liquid bodies would be very, very different from the life we know on Earth.”

For one thing, she notes, it could not be based on the DNA that encodes the countless traits of creatures on Earth. DNA can dissolve in water because both are electrically polar molecules. However, methane and ethane are both nonpolar, so any analogous molecule for methane-based creatures would have to be nonpolar and, presumably, very large. A few researchers, notably Steven A. Benner of the Westheimer Institute of Science and Technology, have begun trying to conceive of such a molecule, but it has proven elusive."


Which makes me wonder... if there was life in Titan, could we recognize it as life? Could it be so different that we cannot recognise it?
__________________
#THEYAREUS
The Mueller Report must be released to Congress in full - If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should also have nothing to fear!
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 01:24 PM   #16
Lukraak_Sisser
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,310
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
"The Cassini spacecraft and Huygens probe found dunes, river valleys, and lakes of liquid methane and ethane on Titan. Says Cable: “As a chemist, that really fascinates me, because any life we might find in these liquid bodies would be very, very different from the life we know on Earth.”

For one thing, she notes, it could not be based on the DNA that encodes the countless traits of creatures on Earth. DNA can dissolve in water because both are electrically polar molecules. However, methane and ethane are both nonpolar, so any analogous molecule for methane-based creatures would have to be nonpolar and, presumably, very large. A few researchers, notably Steven A. Benner of the Westheimer Institute of Science and Technology, have begun trying to conceive of such a molecule, but it has proven elusive."


Which makes me wonder... if there was life in Titan, could we recognize it as life? Could it be so different that we cannot recognise it?
At the moment, we'd have no real idea how life there would be possible, so if it exists on Titan, we'd have a pretty hard time identifying it.

To elaborate, organic life requires molecules to be able to move and change shape. But at the temperature of Titan anything more complex than Ethane will be a solid and thus unable to perform that basic function. That makes the chances for a carbon based lifeform extremely low. So if there is something alive down there, there is a good chance we won't recognize it.

As mentioned upthread though, the oceans under the ice moons of Jupiter and Saturn are a good bet to find organic lifeforms.
Lukraak_Sisser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 01:46 PM   #17
cjameshuff
Thinker
 
cjameshuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
"The Cassini spacecraft and Huygens probe found dunes, river valleys, and lakes of liquid methane and ethane on Titan. Says Cable: “As a chemist, that really fascinates me, because any life we might find in these liquid bodies would be very, very different from the life we know on Earth.”

For one thing, she notes, it could not be based on the DNA that encodes the countless traits of creatures on Earth. DNA can dissolve in water because both are electrically polar molecules. However, methane and ethane are both nonpolar, so any analogous molecule for methane-based creatures would have to be nonpolar and, presumably, very large. A few researchers, notably Steven A. Benner of the Westheimer Institute of Science and Technology, have begun trying to conceive of such a molecule, but it has proven elusive."


Which makes me wonder... if there was life in Titan, could we recognize it as life? Could it be so different that we cannot recognise it?
Any form of life is going to affect its environment in various attention-getting ways. It's just a matter of studying the activity to determine if it's abiotic or prebiotic chemistry or something that qualifies as life. Any shortcomings seem likely to be more with our definitions than with our ability to recognize life.
cjameshuff is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 01:53 PM   #18
dann
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,155
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
"The Cassini spacecraft and Huygens probe found dunes, river valleys, and lakes of liquid methane and ethane on Titan. Says Cable: “As a chemist, that really fascinates me, because any life we might find in these liquid bodies would be very, very different from the life we know on Earth.”

For one thing, she notes, it could not be based on the DNA that encodes the countless traits of creatures on Earth. DNA can dissolve in water because both are electrically polar molecules. However, methane and ethane are both nonpolar, so any analogous molecule for methane-based creatures would have to be nonpolar and, presumably, very large. A few researchers, notably Steven A. Benner of the Westheimer Institute of Science and Technology, have begun trying to conceive of such a molecule, but it has proven elusive."


Which makes me wonder... if there was life in Titan, could we recognize it as life? Could it be so different that we cannot recognise it?

But there are other "liquid bodies" than those. The article I linked to also says:
"Titan, the second biggest moon in the solar system, appears to have a coating of organic molecules, covering a crust of ice, above a liquid-water ocean. It has an atmosphere that is mostly nitrogen and so thick that “if you had wings, and you flapped those wings, you could fly,” Cable points out."
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
dann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 02:46 PM   #19
autumn1971
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,696
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Please, please send probes with drills and fishing rods to Europa, Enceladus and Titan in my time! (I wouldn't know what to use as bait, though.)
Ripley.

Or possibly Newt
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 02:48 PM   #20
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 85,379
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Ripley.



Or possibly Newt
Certainly would be a test of intelligence, if the life form isn't terrified by a white, blond, cute, orphan little girl it ain't intelligent.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 05:27 PM   #21
Venom
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,159
Life came from within the earth.

See thread.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 05:47 PM   #22
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 26,285
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Which makes me wonder... if there was life in Titan, could we recognize it as life? Could it be so different that we cannot recognise it?

Recognize life on Titan? I don't even talk to my sister.


Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Life came from within the earth.

... for certain very narrow definitions of "within." Scientists have observed signs of life at 5 km deep. It's 6,371 km to the center of the earth. The crust is, relatively, thinner than the skin of an apple.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader

Last edited by Loss Leader; 14th April 2019 at 05:52 PM.
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th April 2019, 08:06 PM   #23
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 11,133
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
... for certain very narrow definitions of "within." Scientists have observed signs of life at 5 km deep. It's 6,371 km to the center of the earth. The crust is, relatively, thinner than the skin of an apple.
The continental crust of the Earth is 30-50km thick... 5 km is only 1/6th to 1/10th of the way through that bit!

The deepest known volcanic "hydrothermal" vent with tube worms is 5 kilometres down. At that depth the pressure is about 500 atmospheres; about 3˝ tons per square inch!
__________________
#THEYAREUS
The Mueller Report must be released to Congress in full - If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should also have nothing to fear!

Last edited by smartcooky; 14th April 2019 at 08:08 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2019, 09:29 PM   #24
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 24,013
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Since there is one common molecular ancestor for all life on earth, and thus probably in the universe, this should read

Earliest life may have arisen in pond not ocean.
Not right, Samson. What we know is that the current species that we have found on Earth have the DNA molecule in common. Thus there is a one common molecular ancestor for those species. That does not rule out life beginning with a different DNA-analog either on Earth and especially on other planets. They just did not survive to modern times on Earth. They may still exist elsewhere. There is no reason to believe that DNA based life started in a single pond when there would be many ponds with similar chances of life rising.

The title Earliest life may have arisen in ponds, not oceans is correct.

Last edited by Reality Check; 16th April 2019 at 09:35 PM.
Reality Check is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2019, 07:02 AM   #25
Gingervytes
Scholar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 76
Matrix?
Gingervytes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2019, 07:25 AM   #26
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 80,615
Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Matrix?
Terminator?

What's your question?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2019, 01:27 PM   #27
Roboramma
Penultimate Amazing
 
Roboramma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 12,076
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Terminator?
Colossus
__________________
"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov
Roboramma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2019, 08:55 PM   #28
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,759
Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Colossus
Finally, the answer to the big questions.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
Prayer: "a sophisticated way of pleading with thunderstorms." T.Pratchett
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
Forum Birdwatching Webpage
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:52 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.