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Old 17th May 2014, 02:09 PM   #1001
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
According to Theosphy the soul is a formless bubble of energy...
What kind of energy? If it is stronger than gravity, it would be simply detectable; if it is weaker than gravity, it has no chance of maintaining its form.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...which contains our consciousness,
Consciousness is an emergent property of a neurosystem. There's a whole other thread about this...

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...and all our memories of past lives.
If our "memories" of our "past lives" are not available to us, how are they "ours"? How are they "memories"?

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
It is God within God separated from the God mind by the energy bubble which is called the causal body.
Right. Demonstration, pls.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
But since we cannot function in a formless body we have several lower bodies that we inhabit that are called the mental and the astral and the physical body.
Again, some glimmer of actual evidence would be so refreshing...

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There is an interpenetrating shell between the higher bodies and the physical, and it is called the etheric body.
Nope. Nothing exists that could form such; nothing exists that could power such. Interactions with actual matter and energy require
(wait for it)
...matter, and energy.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Conciousness is channeled down into the brain through energy centers in the etheric body called chakras.
Chakras are not an anatomical reality in the human body. I've looked.

Consciousness is an emergent property of a functioning (matter/energy) neurosystem.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
We may be able to astral travel while still alive. That is leave the body for a time but still be connected to it, which may explain NDE.
Actually, NDEs are explained by the "N" in NDE, and by the physiological reactions of the brain to certain types of stresses, including, but not limited to hypoxia and anoxia.

An NDE is as much an indication of "what it is like to die" as being stood up at the altar is an indication of "what it is like to be married".

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
After we die we go to higher planes,
Um, no. After we die, we are dead. That's why they call it that.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...and reside in the one our spiritual evolution equips us for. We stay in the spirit world until deciding it is necessary to reincarnate.
Cool story, sis.
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Old 17th May 2014, 02:43 PM   #1002
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If we're going to describe our favourite fantasy worlds unsupported by evidence, reason, or logic, I choose the Big Rock Candy Mountains:
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I AGREE
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Old 17th May 2014, 06:22 PM   #1003
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Thanks for the reply. Let's look at it a little more closely.

Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
According to Theosphy the soul is a formless bubble of energy which contains our consciousness, and all our memories of past lives.
But it has been pointed out to you that energy is a property, not a thing. It's the same as saying "a bubble of voltage" or "a bucket of temperature" or "a box of gravity." So the explanation fails right out of the gate.

Quote:
It is God within God separated from the God mind by the energy bubble which is called the causal body. But since we cannot function in a formless body we have several lower bodies that we inhabit that are called the mental and the astral and the physical body.
Leaving aside the question of God for the moment, the only evidence we have for our bodies is the physical one: a collection of meat, bones, nerves that collectively supports something called a brain. Consciousness is understood to be an emergent property of the brain. There is no need to explain it further in terms of etheric bodies and chakras.

Quote:
There is an interpenetrating shell between the higher bodies and the physical, and it is called the etheric body. Conciousness is channeled down into the brain through energy centers in the etheric body called chakras. We may be able to astral travel while still alive. That is leave the body for a time but still be connected to it, which may explain NDE.
Interesting. Now we need more detailed explanations. What is the etheric body made out of? And chakras? Are they built up from fundamental particles such as quarks, bosons, mesons, etc? If so, wy are we unable to detect them with any instrument we can invent?

Quote:
After we die we go to higher planes, and reside in the one our spiritual evolution equips us for. We stay in the spirit world until deciding it is necessary to reincarnate.
It's an interesting and perhaps comforting thought. The problem is there is nothing in the manifestations of the spirit world that cannot be explained by more mundane means. A careful study of the spirit world and spiritualists is also a study in logical fallacies.

A "logical fallacy", by the way, is a short-hand explanation for any of a few dozen ways the human brain deceives and fools itself. The main reason we're able to carry out this conversation on the internet is because we discovered that we're very good at fooling ourselves and invented way of investigating things so that our own internal biases would not get in. That approach is called science, and it led to the breakthroughs that we take for granted today: electricity, electronics, the motor vehicle, the germ theory of disease and clean drinking water, etc. Theosophy, spiritualism, and religion in general did nothing to assist that process, and often times impeded it terribly.
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Old 18th May 2014, 12:14 AM   #1004
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Scorpion, can you name one thing that Theosophy has produced to better humankind?
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Old 18th May 2014, 07:22 AM   #1005
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Crom laughs at your god, he laughs from his mountain.
SlŠine mac Roth shakes his head slowly and glowers...
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Old 18th May 2014, 09:22 AM   #1006
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
Not really. You misunderstand the nature of energy. It isn't a form of stuff, it's an indirectly observed quantity, an equivalence relation. The best analogy I know is value (i.e. financial value). A block of gold, a wad of currency, a house, and 10 years work can all have the same value. You can convert a block of gold into a house of the same value either by direct exchange, or by using it to buy wood, bricks, mortar, and builder's time and having it built. But gold, bricks & mortar, builder's labour, and currency are not made of value, they each have a kind of value that can be converted into other kinds of value. Like most analogies, it's incomplete (for example financial value isn't conserved, it depends on human judgement) but it gives an idea of the principle.

Saying that matter can be converted to energy is a convenient shorthand for this equivalence relation. When matter is 'converted' to energy (e.g. nuclear explosion) it doesn't cease to exist, it is broken down into subatomic and elementary particles moving at velocities or having frequencies that, in total, have the equivalent energy value. The common idea of energy as light or radiant heat, consists of photons, and the higher the frequency of the photon, the greater its energy equivalent. But it's not made of energy, energy is a property it has.

So reality isn't an illusion, and stuff isn't made of energy. The real illusion (strictly delusion) is the spirit world.
Thanks for that clear explanation of the conversion of matter into energy.


Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Exactly.

Just as a dead brain (and trust me on this, they do actually melt) the data that it contained disappears forever.
I had to open a jar of Year V's vintage to cope with that image of a melting brain, O Pharaoh.



Originally Posted by PixyMisa View Post
...Also, chakras don't exist.
Indeed. When you compare various chakra systems with another and see the differences in location and function of the chakras according to the system's teachings, the whole concept of chakras pretty well falls down to the folkloric tourist trade category.
The Theosophical movement is responsible for a lot guff. Jiddu Krishnamurti WP broke with those people for a reason, after all.
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Old 21st May 2014, 07:49 AM   #1007
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Thanks for that clear explanation of the conversion of matter into energy.
Seconded, I'm so stealing that analogy.
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Old 21st May 2014, 04:02 PM   #1008
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Originally Posted by Femke View Post
Seconded, I'm so stealing that analogy.
You're most welcome (I hope it's right)
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Old 21st May 2014, 05:46 PM   #1009
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
You're most welcome (I hope it's right)
It must be, it is such an elegant way to explain the difference between a thing and a property. Finally I know how to respond to people who use the word energy as if it refers to an object. Thanks.
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Old 15th October 2017, 02:43 PM   #1010
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I am resurrecting this thread, to answer questions on spiritualism without taking any other threads off topic. The mods kindly provided this thread for me to stop me derailing other threads, and I might as well use it.
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Old 15th October 2017, 03:06 PM   #1011
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Question from Thor 2

"The spirits you talk of. Are they inside our bodies now and only break out when we die, or can they roam about in the astral plain whilst we are still alive and in a trance/sleep? Is this another name for a soul and do we get one when we are born or conceived?"

As far as my understanding goes we are an immortal spirit connected to a physical body by an energy shell called the etheric body. Consciousness is not centered in the brain but it is channeled down though the chakras in the etheric body.
According to the occult we have several bodies and the etheric is just a shell between the astral body and the physical body.
I believe it is possible to leave the body while we are still alive but I have never achieved that. I don't think many people do. I did once think I was standing on my head in bed, but it could well have been a dream.

The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception. Our soul or spirit is connected to the physical body for the purpose of incarnation, to learn by trial and error.

The theory is we have always existed as part of God but we are sent out on a cycle of birth and rebirths as a way of discovering our divinity for ourselves.

This world is just a plane of experience and there are many higher planes we inhabit after death. We go to a plane that is suitable for our current state of spiritual evolution.
In the spirit we are segregated by our spiritual status but the earth plane is a melting pot for the evolved and the unevolved to interact with one another, and it is largely by such interactions that we develop. There is no pressure on us in the spirit planes and we cannot evolve there, neither can we pay karmic debts, so we have to reincarnate many times.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 15th October 2017, 04:22 PM   #1012
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Both Freud and Jung have attempted to define psychic energy.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/...ournalCode=ajp
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 15th October 2017 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 15th October 2017, 08:24 PM   #1013
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Question from Thor 2

"The spirits you talk of. Are they inside our bodies now and only break out when we die, or can they roam about in the astral plain whilst we are still alive and in a trance/sleep? Is this another name for a soul and do we get one when we are born or conceived?"

As far as my understanding goes we are an immortal spirit connected to a physical body by an energy shell called the etheric body. Consciousness is not centered in the brain but it is channeled down though the chakras in the etheric body.
According to the occult we have several bodies and the etheric is just a shell between the astral body and the physical body.
I believe it is possible to leave the body while we are still alive but I have never achieved that. I don't think many people do. I did once think I was standing on my head in bed, but it could well have been a dream.

The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception. Our soul or spirit is connected to the physical body for the purpose of incarnation, to learn by trial and error.

The theory is we have always existed as part of God but we are sent out on a cycle of birth and rebirths as a way of discovering our divinity for ourselves.

This world is just a plane of experience and there are many higher planes we inhabit after death. We go to a plane that is suitable for our current state of spiritual evolution.
In the spirit we are segregated by our spiritual status but the earth plane is a melting pot for the evolved and the unevolved to interact with one another, and it is largely by such interactions that we develop. There is no pressure on us in the spirit planes and we cannot evolve there, neither can we pay karmic debts, so we have to reincarnate many times.
Cool story bro.

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Old 15th October 2017, 10:48 PM   #1014
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So, midichlorians.
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Old 16th October 2017, 01:57 AM   #1015
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If you damage a chakra, is your consciousness affected? Is this a measurable effect?
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Old 16th October 2017, 02:12 AM   #1016
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
<snip for brevity>
I am witholding my response to that, pending your answer to my question below out of respect.


Do you really want my honest critique of that post? No holds barred? Brakes off?

I will freely give it if, and only if, you are ready to take it on the chin, with the benign intent that underlies it and the understanding that you will not like it much.
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Old 16th October 2017, 02:23 AM   #1017
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
If you damage a chakra, is your consciousness affected? Is this a measurable effect?
How can one identify any difference between the claimed location of a chakra and an immediately adjacent point that is not a chakra?
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Old 16th October 2017, 02:34 AM   #1018
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
How can one identify any difference between the claimed location of a chakra and an immediately adjacent point that is not a chakra?
Chakras are the Humpty's of the spiritual world. They are as large or small as necessary, and have a meaning which means exactly whatever the claimant wants it to mean at a given time.

Until tomorrow, when it will all be different, so pay attentions and keep up.
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Old 16th October 2017, 05:38 AM   #1019
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception.
This has interesting implications. Does it imply that all abortion is wrong because it's depriving a spirit of its home/opportunity/evolution? Or does it imply that abortion is just fine because the spirit will learn something and just reincarnate?

In fact, does it imply that absolutely no action a human can take is wrong, because it's all part of God's plan to make our souls evolve?
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:16 AM   #1020
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Both Freud and Jung have attempted to define psychic energy.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/...ournalCode=ajp
FYI, while both Freud and Jung are considered two of the forefathers of psychology, most people who currently study psychology are aware that their conclusions have been largely disproven.

I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, in case you're wondering how I know that.
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:32 AM   #1021
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
If you damage a chakra, is your consciousness affected? Is this a measurable effect?
I have only my personal experience on that and I would say that my chakras were misaligned, due to my etheric body being loosened, and this caused me
no end of problems. The cause of the damage to my etheric body was depression and mental stress, and the effect was that I felt I could not grip my mind. I felt fire flowing through my chakras and I conclude this was energy jumping across a gap between the chakras, and the location of the body they were supposed to be linked to.

I had a lot of spiritual healing and it fixed the problem and my mind became clearer. I then learned to channel healing energy through my own chakras.
I could feel the healing energy as a kind of warmth,
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:34 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post

Do you really want my honest critique of that post? No holds barred? Brakes off?
Please feel free to post your views, I am far from fragile after all my experiences.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:39 AM   #1023
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The spirits say...
I was with you until there; then you boarded the plea train on its special circular route. Far as I know, you're still on-board, going around and around and around. How profound.
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Old 16th October 2017, 06:49 AM   #1024
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
This has interesting implications. Does it imply that all abortion is wrong because it's depriving a spirit of its home/opportunity/evolution? Or does it imply that abortion is just fine because the spirit will learn something and just reincarnate?

In fact, does it imply that absolutely no action a human can take is wrong, because it's all part of God's plan to make our souls evolve?
It might be said that abortion is wrong because it deprives a soul of its intended experiences. But the spirit of a baby or fetus that dies goes back to the spirit world and grows up there. It probably will eventually choose to reincarnate again because that is how we evolve. But it will not usually remember its previous incarnation. I think we only remember all our past lives when we have completed our cycle of incarnations.

A spirit guide said if we could prematurely remember past lives, and evil things we might have done, it could drive us mad. This is one of the reasons why we incarnate in the first place. So that we are given a new brain that only remembers this one life.

Wrong action has consequences and we have to account for everything we have ever done before we are free of the cycle of rebirths.

All this is administrated by the angels of karma who determine what is best for us from behind the scenes. They guide us to an incarnation that suits or spiritual needs, even if the life is hard. The angels know its for our ultimate good, so they are indifferent to our sufferings.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:01 AM   #1025
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
How can one identify any difference between the claimed location of a chakra and an immediately adjacent point that is not a chakra?
I dunno, but I recommend a book called 'Hands of light' by Barbara Brennan.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:05 AM   #1026
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
FYI, while both Freud and Jung are considered two of the forefathers of psychology, most people who currently study psychology are aware that their conclusions have been largely disproven.

I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, in case you're wondering how I know that.
I assume that makes you a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. Therefore I assume you do not treat the mentally ill. Nor did you take the Hippocratic oath.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:17 AM   #1027
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
It might be said that abortion is wrong because it deprives a soul of its intended experiences. But the spirit of a baby or fetus that dies goes back to the spirit world and grows up there. It probably will eventually choose to reincarnate again because that is how we evolve. But it will not usually remember its previous incarnation. I think we only remember all our past lives when we have completed our cycle of incarnations.

A spirit guide said if we could prematurely remember past lives, and evil things we might have done, it could drive us mad. This is one of the reasons why we incarnate in the first place. So that we are given a new brain that only remembers this one life.

Wrong action has consequences and we have to account for everything we have ever done before we are free of the cycle of rebirths.

All this is administrated by the angels of karma who determine what is best for us from behind the scenes. They guide us to an incarnation that suits or spiritual needs, even if the life is hard. The angels know its for our ultimate good, so they are indifferent to our sufferings.

How are all those lifetimes of memories stored while we're experiencing multiple incarnated lifetimes until completion of our respective cycles of rebirth?

Since apparently the angels of karma have the ability to curate lifetimes of memories, collecting them and withholding them and restoring them at will, why are more incarnations needed at this point? If even one being has completed the cycle, why not give all other spirits a copy of that one spirit's multiple-lifetime memories and get them all moved on to the next plane already?

And for that matter, what's the point of training new spirits? In the incarnated world we educate our children to replace us because we're going to die. What are new angels in the spirit world needed for?
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:33 AM   #1028
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Both Freud and Jung have attempted to define psychic energy.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/...ournalCode=ajp
Neither Freud nor Jung were scientists.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:33 AM   #1029
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
All this is administrated by the angels of karma who determine what is best for us from behind the scenes. They guide us to an incarnation that suits or spiritual needs, even if the life is hard. The angels know its for our ultimate good, so they are indifferent to our sufferings.

Oh, and this part.

Is the purpose of experiencing suffering during incarnation, then, to learn to be indifferent to it, the way the angels are?

That seems to be rather the reverse of what most believers in reincarnation say happens during the cycle of rebirth, which includes learning compassion. But if those people are right, why aren't the angels practicing what they're preaching?
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:34 AM   #1030
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
How are all those lifetimes of memories stored while we're experiencing multiple incarnated lifetimes until completion of our respective cycles of rebirth?

Since apparently the angels of karma have the ability to curate lifetimes of memories, collecting them and withholding them and restoring them at will, why are more incarnations needed at this point? If even one being has completed the cycle, why not give all other spirits a copy of that one spirit's multiple-lifetime memories and get them all moved on to the next plane already?

And for that matter, what's the point of training new spirits? In the incarnated world we educate our children to replace us because we're going to die. What are new angels in the spirit world needed for?
All memory of past lives is stored in the soul body, which is formless and expandable. We have several bodies and the soul body is the highest.

We all have to learn for ourselves, and settle our own karma. Nobody else can make our choices for us.

We are all immortal individuals and continue on into infinity together as one great spiritual family. An immortal spirit can hardly be replaced by reproducing.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:37 AM   #1031
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Oh, and this part.

Is the purpose of experiencing suffering during incarnation, then, to learn to be indifferent to it, the way the angels are?

That seems to be rather the reverse of what most believers in reincarnation say happens during the cycle of rebirth, which includes learning compassion. But if those people are right, why aren't the angels practicing what they're preaching?
No suffering is the karmic consequences of our bad action, and as you say it is designed to make changes in our soul. Such as learning compassion for others after suffering ourselves.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:40 AM   #1032
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
.. formless and expandable...
The perfect pardon.
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:41 AM   #1033
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I miss Slowvehicle. He did this all with such style.
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:02 AM   #1034
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
All memory of past lives is stored in the soul body, which is formless and expandable. We have several bodies and the soul body is the highest.

This is a contradiction. Memory is information, which is form persisting over time. What form do our stored soul-body memories take?

Quote:
We all have to learn for ourselves, and settle our own karma. Nobody else can make our choices for us.

This seems like a very crude and primitive system. Here in the incarnated world, we learn from the experiences of others.

When I was a pre-teen I read first-person accounts of the experiences of heroin addicts and their families, that were published in the newspaper. Those experiences, conveyed by written words, made me fear addiction and convinced me not to use addictive recreational drugs. This valuable learning clearly did NOT come from the memories of any past lives (which as you point out I have no access to in my present incarnation).

That appears to be more effective than the angels' system, which apparently can only teach me about addiction if I experience it myself. (Will they send me back to "try again" to be a drug addict in my next life?)

Furthermore, education is a progressive process. That's why courses have prerequisites. It's much easier to learn to write if you've already learned to read, because you can read many examples of writing. It's much easier to learn calculus if you've already learned algebra. "Welcome to fifth grade; first thing we'll do is erase all your memories of fourth grade, then start over."

As a teaching and learning process, the system you describe is atrocious.

Quote:
We are all immortal individuals and continue on into infinity together as one great spiritual family. An immortal spirit can hardly be replaced by reproducing.

That sounds all spiritually sparkly but it doesn't connect to moral behavior very well. Would an immortal spirit living infinitely be much inconvenienced by being murdered, or a few lifetimes of abject slavery? Not a bit; in fact those would be invaluable learning experiences. So go ahead and murder and enslave away...
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:06 AM   #1035
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
No suffering is the karmic consequences of our bad action, and as you say it is designed to make changes in our soul. Such as learning compassion for others after suffering ourselves.

Yet the angels, whom you've implied to be more advanced spiritual beings who have already learned all this, are indifferent to our suffering. According to you.

This makes no sense. Even with the escape clause "... as long as it's for our own good" doesn't make sense. If you had to operate on a child to save its life, and you had anesthesia available, would you choose not to bother with it because the surgery is for their own good?

Of course you wouldn't. Congratulations; you're more spiritually advanced than your angels. I guess you'll be moving on to a higher plane soon.
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:13 AM   #1036
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It's too bad that God can't just create people to be the way he wants them to be and had to come up with this complicated system instead.
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:29 AM   #1037
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I assume that makes you a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. Therefore I assume you do not treat the mentally ill. Nor did you take the Hippocratic oath.
Actually it makes me neither, as I don't have a doctorate or a medical degree.

I assume you're aware that a bachelor's is an undergraduate degree, not a post graduate degree such as would be necessary if I were one of those.

I am, however, an analyst. As such, I can take data from various sources, examine it, and reach a logical conclusion as to a potential outcome. Nothing that you are saying makes any sort of logical sense, therefore, I must conclude that it is utter balderdash, to coin a phrase.
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Old 16th October 2017, 08:38 AM   #1038
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have only my personal experience on that and I would say that my chakras were misaligned, due to my etheric body being loosened, and this caused me
no end of problems. The cause of the damage to my etheric body was depression and mental stress, and the effect was that I felt I could not grip my mind. I felt fire flowing through my chakras and I conclude this was energy jumping across a gap between the chakras, and the location of the body they were supposed to be linked to.

I had a lot of spiritual healing and it fixed the problem and my mind became clearer. I then learned to channel healing energy through my own chakras.
I could feel the healing energy as a kind of warmth,
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I meant actual physical damage to an area of the body associated with a particular chakra. Does this change your consciousness, and is this a measurable effect? Is it something that trauma units in hospitals, for example, have noticed?
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Old 16th October 2017, 09:38 AM   #1039
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
It might be said that abortion is wrong because it deprives a soul of its intended experiences. But the spirit of a baby or fetus that dies goes back to the spirit world and grows up there. It probably will eventually choose to reincarnate again because that is how we evolve. But it will not usually remember its previous incarnation. I think we only remember all our past lives when we have completed our cycle of incarnations.

A spirit guide said if we could prematurely remember past lives, and evil things we might have done, it could drive us mad. This is one of the reasons why we incarnate in the first place. So that we are given a new brain that only remembers this one life.

Wrong action has consequences and we have to account for everything we have ever done before we are free of the cycle of rebirths.

All this is administrated by the angels of karma who determine what is best for us from behind the scenes. They guide us to an incarnation that suits or spiritual needs, even if the life is hard. The angels know its for our ultimate good, so they are indifferent to our sufferings.
If I'm reading this correctly, then abortion is a good thing for everybody involved, including the unborn foetus. Is that your position?

Given that everything that happens to everybody, including doing "evil things", is ultimately of benefit to everybody can you think of a single action anybody could perform which can be considered wrong in the grand scheme of things?
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Old 16th October 2017, 09:42 AM   #1040
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
It's too bad that God can't just create people to be the way he wants them to be and had to come up with this complicated system instead.

Um, that's mixing divergent and largely incompatible religious narratives. Most traditions of reincarnation do not involve a creator god who made perfect humans sometime in the past. Instead, the spirits currently experiencing cycles of reincarnation as humans graduated from earlier cycles of incarnation in less developed forms including animals, after originally emerging from some sort of primordial life-chaos, in an ongoing process.

There's plenty to question about the reincarnation narrative, but that it isn't the same narrative as Abrahamic monotheism's (or easily compatible with it) shouldn't really be an issue.
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