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Old 23rd January 2019, 04:42 PM   #521
theprestige
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More and more admin functions can be done through a browser now, but the real work is automated via the API. If the software offers an API and you're still pointing and clicking, it's time to up your game.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 04:54 PM   #522
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I completely agree. Those with the chops can do amazing things with a command line. For most functions, the GUI serves the rest of us extremely well.

More and more admin functions are being done through a browser now, actually. I do pretty much everything in a browser except those few functions I still need to use AD for.
Yep, I agree too. The browser-based stuff, PROPERLY DESIGNED, covers a lot more ground far more easily than hacking and testing a bunch of scripts together.

But I still like sometimes to throw a quick bit of code together to do the odd bit of stuff...heh heh heh!
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Old 23rd January 2019, 05:38 PM   #523
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More and more admin functions can be done through a browser now, but the real work is automated via the API. If the software offers an API and you're still pointing and clicking, it's time to up your game.
A GUI is great for one-off work or things that don't need to be done often. Add one user to a system? Do it in the GUI. Add 2500? If you can't write a script to do that, some poor drone's going to spend a day or three with a spreadsheet, copying and pasting data. It will be error prone and a poor use of that person's time.

Command-line stuff is also great for things that happen in off hours when no-one's around to initiate and babysit the process. At home I have a job that runs hourly on my server to back up some files from my laptop, and another job that runs at 4:00 AM daily to copy the server's primary disc to a backup disc.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 05:43 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
A GUI is great for one-off work or things that don't need to be done often. Add one user to a system? Do it in the GUI. Add 2500? If you can't write a script to do that, some poor drone's going to spend a day or three with a spreadsheet, copying and pasting data. It will be error prone and a poor use of that person's time.

Command-line stuff is also great for things that happen in off hours when no-one's around to initiate and babysit the process. At home I have a job that runs hourly on my server to back up some files from my laptop, and another job that runs at 4:00 AM daily to copy the server's primary disc to a backup disc.
I use Veeam, works like an absolute champ. It's free too, depending on what you want. You can also create agents to put on machines, and restore individual files pretty easily. I use ESXi and the two play together perfectly, or at least have for me. I back everything up to a RAID 5 Synology NAS, and then Veeam sends it up to my cloud space. It really is a slick program.
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Last edited by plague311; 23rd January 2019 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 24th January 2019, 06:06 PM   #525
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Here's one that gets me. We always ask for the Workstation Name, which is the same as the asset tracking number. It always has two letters, then some numbers, which vary according to the actual agency that owns the asset. Here's how it often goes.

Me: Okay, can I get you to read out your workstation name?
Them: Where do I find that?
Me: It's on a sticker on your computer, it starts with two letters followed by some numbers.
Them: Oh, does it start with TJ?
Me: That will be it.
Them: Okay. T J.
Me: ...
Me: ... ...
Me: ... ... ...
Me: ... ... ... ... go on.
Them: 123456.
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Old 25th January 2019, 12:56 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Here's one that gets me. We always ask for the Workstation Name, which is the same as the asset tracking number. It always has two letters, then some numbers, which vary according to the actual agency that owns the asset. Here's how it often goes.

Me: Okay, can I get you to read out your workstation name?
Them: Where do I find that?
Me: It's on a sticker on your computer, it starts with two letters followed by some numbers.
Them: Oh, does it start with TJ?
Me: That will be it.
Them: Okay. T J.
Me: ...
Me: ... ...
Me: ... ... ...
Me: ... ... ... ... go on.
Them: 123456.
That reminds me of all the fun we have at work with the phonetic alphabet. We work with a TON of counties\state\federal locations, including police. We have a few counties that we dink with the officers. "X as in xylophone", "p as in pterodactyl".

We have stickers like yours too that we stick in the most obvious places. People with laptops looking on the bottom and it's right next to the keyboard.
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Old 25th January 2019, 03:38 PM   #527
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G as in gila (If you don't know Spanish, I should tell you that it's pronounced like an English h).


See "Gila River, Arizona".


P as in pneumatic.
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Old 25th January 2019, 08:05 PM   #528
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I just wanted all of you to know that, as a lurker, I have enjoyed this thread immensely. I spent most of my career as a programmer and occasional server admin (now retired) but never an actual sysadmin. Listening to your tales of user cluelessness beings back a lot of not-so-fond memories.

Thanks to all of you.
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Old 25th January 2019, 08:22 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Can't remember. Hey, it was a long time ago. I'm going to say "probably".
I'm going say, definitely not, in my case.

I'd been using all kinds of computers (too many to list) before I had to use a Mac for Statistics at uni.

When I couldn't find a button to eject the disc, I asked other students for help.

When they told me I had to drag it to the Trash can, I was utterly certain that they were trying to get me to delete all my files for a joke.

Eventually a Tutor came over and showed me the alternative methods for ejecting the disc. (Cloverleaf+E, or selecting something from a menu IIRC)
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Old 25th January 2019, 08:33 PM   #530
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Heheheh

In the GUI verses WIMP interface (windows icons mice pointers) wars...

I'm heavily associated with a single application at the moment.

I can update the back end database via SQL or via the application layer with a subset of SQL...

Often if someone needs to know something from the database like "how many, or counts by categories" I can generate the answer through an on-the-fly script against the back end, before they can navigate to the search screen and key the search parameters in the application.

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Old 27th January 2019, 08:20 AM   #531
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One of the PC magazines used to have a regular column that recited funny tech support stories. Such as, the lady who brought her computer back to the store because the floppy drive wasn't working. It turns out, there were two floppies jammed into it. The software instructions said "insert disk 2" but failed to say "remove disk 1".
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Old 27th January 2019, 09:34 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I'm going say, definitely not, in my case.

I'd been using all kinds of computers (too many to list) before I had to use a Mac for Statistics at uni.

When I couldn't find a button to eject the disc, I asked other students for help.

When they told me I had to drag it to the Trash can, I was utterly certain that they were trying to get me to delete all my files for a joke.

Eventually a Tutor came over and showed me the alternative methods for ejecting the disc. (Cloverleaf+E, or selecting something from a menu IIRC)
I've always wondered about the coder who first thoughy that dragging an external disk icon to trash to eject it was a great idea. It is not intuitive and encourages bad ways of thinking in an inexperienced or insecure user. although I use that method all the time it makes me wince each time and I would never suggest it to a new computer user if I were teaching them.

At least some OPs change the trash desk icon to an eject symbol when one first clicks and begins to drag the external disk.
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Old 27th January 2019, 10:44 AM   #533
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
My 386 certainly had a hard drive in '86.
As did my XT in 1985 and my AT in 1986.
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Old 27th January 2019, 03:39 PM   #534
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You've reminded me of a story from ICL (I worked there back in the day).

The were testing the install instructions for a piece of software that was designed to run on a PC.

The package was given to a non-computer user to see how they'd go...

First instruction was: Remove the floppy disk from the paper sleeve, and insert it into the disc drive.

Problem was, there was no sleeve on the floppy disc, so the user peeled open the floppy disc's case, and inserted the now naked disc into the drive.

Not a great start.
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Old 28th January 2019, 03:07 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
As did my XT in 1985 and my AT in 1986.
20 mega total capacity?
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Old 28th January 2019, 03:38 PM   #536
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
20 mega total capacity?
5 for the XT. 20 for the AT.
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Old 28th January 2019, 06:40 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
5 for the XT. 20 for the AT.
So was it a 10 Mb and then the RLL controllers came out? Low level format via debug?
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Old 28th January 2019, 06:45 PM   #538
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
G as in gila (If you don't know Spanish, I should tell you that it's pronounced like an English h).


See "Gila River, Arizona".


P as in pneumatic.
P as in psycho.
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Old 28th January 2019, 06:46 PM   #539
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Originally Posted by ShowMe View Post
So was it a 10 Mb and then the RLL controllers came out? Low level format via debug?
Do NOT remind me!
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Old 29th January 2019, 10:20 PM   #540
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Just took a call about whether/how we can receive faxes.

We can, by the way. But it's been a very long time I've been asked about that.
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Old 29th January 2019, 10:24 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just took a call about whether/how we can receive faxes.

We can, by the way. But it's been a very long time I've been asked about that.
Vaguely recall there's basic fax software as standard in Windows. Although the last I saw of that was back in Win2K IIRC...

[looks]

Yep, Windows Fax and Scan in Win7 and Win10. But it's an optional feature you need to enable.
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Old 29th January 2019, 10:47 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Vaguely recall there's basic fax software as standard in Windows. Although the last I saw of that was back in Win2K IIRC...

[looks]

Yep, Windows Fax and Scan in Win7 and Win10. But it's an optional feature you need to enable.
Yeah, we have it as a function of our MFDs. Anyone can request access to it, but it isn't enabled by default.
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Old 29th January 2019, 11:15 PM   #543
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, we have it as a function of our MFDs. Anyone can request access to it, but it isn't enabled by default.
What, MORE paper??
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:43 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
What, MORE paper??
Not necessarily, I think there’s an option to receive it as a PDF.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:22 AM   #545
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When we were selling my parents' old house, my Mother-in-Law's old house, and our old house, I was astounded by how dependent the real estate business is on sending faxes.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:25 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
When we were selling my parents' old house, my Mother-in-Law's old house, and our old house, I was astounded by how dependent the real estate business is on sending faxes.
Yep. I sent more faxes while buying a home then I though possible.
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:40 AM   #547
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I prefer alternative fax.

I use a scanner and email.

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Old 1st February 2019, 07:38 AM   #548
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My company's European HQ opened a new office that has no faxes at all. That has led to a few uneasy conversations with some of our more...entrenched employees.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:34 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Jesus Christ I will never get over how picky users are about how software "looks" when it functions exactly the same.
This seriously is becoming the biggest timesink of my job.

Every time anything changes, every time anyone moves to a new computer, every new person, every person that takes on a new job or new roll I have to hand hold them making their screen "look like it used to."

These people are insane. Every icon has to be in the exact same place on their desktop or they shut down. If they move from a duel monitor to a single monitor or vice versa they shut down. If their GODDAMN RESOLUTION CHANGES BY ONE MICRON they shut down.
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Old 1st February 2019, 10:35 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
My company's European HQ opened a new office that has no faxes at all. That has led to a few uneasy conversations with some of our more...entrenched employees.
Well have a doctor that does consulting work for our office. He demands everything be sent to him via traditional fax. If he suspects we used a software based fax solution he rejects anything sent to him. He asks the nurses when they are sending stuff to him how they are sending it.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:02 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This seriously is becoming the biggest timesink of my job.

Every time anything changes, every time anyone moves to a new computer, every new person, every person that takes on a new job or new roll I have to hand hold them making their screen "look like it used to."

These people are insane. Every icon has to be in the exact same place on their desktop or they shut down. If they move from a duel monitor to a single monitor or vice versa they shut down. If their GODDAMN RESOLUTION CHANGES BY ONE MICRON they shut down.
Write a quick script to randomly re-order desktop icons and resolutions throughout the day. Let it run. Tell them to let you know when it gets to how they like it sop you can turn the app off.

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Old 1st February 2019, 11:50 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
This seriously is becoming the biggest timesink of my job.

Every time anything changes, every time anyone moves to a new computer, every new person, every person that takes on a new job or new roll I have to hand hold them making their screen "look like it used to."

These people are insane. Every icon has to be in the exact same place on their desktop or they shut down. If they move from a duel monitor to a single monitor or vice versa they shut down. If their GODDAMN RESOLUTION CHANGES BY ONE MICRON they shut down.
Yeah, I hate it when my monitors start duelling. I wish there was a better way for them to come to a resolution on their own.
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Old 1st February 2019, 12:13 PM   #553
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Yeah, I hate it when my monitors start duelling. I wish there was a better way for them to come to a resolution on their own.

I see what you did there.
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Old 1st February 2019, 01:23 PM   #554
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not necessarily, I think there’s an option to receive it as a PDF.
Yeah, our system automatically emails a tax sent to one of the landline numbers to the corresponding address in the directory.
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:14 PM   #555
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Originally Posted by xterra View Post
I see what you did there.
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Old 1st February 2019, 11:57 PM   #556
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Not necessarily, I think there’s an option to receive it as a PDF.
So how do you know when it has arrived? Does the MFP go ping?

This is also readily available in the free Windows add-in. But as others have said, why not just email the ******* thing in the first place.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 12:31 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So how do you know when it has arrived? Does the MFP go ping?

This is also readily available in the free Windows add-in. But as others have said, why not just email the ******* thing in the first place.
This is one thing about modern offices that I love.

I can receive a fax from anywhere in the organisation, I can retrieve a printed document from any printer (MFD), no matter where I am, I can log into any computer, and do my work there. (Well except for everything that requires me to connect to any of our environments* , because that requires fixed IP addresses and holes drilled through the metric ****-ton of firewalls.

(Fortunately I never have to do that stuff away from my desk)

*environments are a full set of everything, each in their own network segments, some of the elements are virtualised, but lots of the elements are in different places and different organisations.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 08:43 AM   #558
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
These people are insane. Every icon has to be in the exact same place on their desktop or they shut down. If they move from a duel monitor to a single monitor or vice versa they shut down. If their GODDAMN RESOLUTION CHANGES BY ONE MICRON they shut down.
There have been many times I wanted to go to HR, see if I could get their job application letter, check to see if it said "computer skills" anywhere on it and have them fired for lying on their application.

OK, a bit drastic perhaps. But folks who claim to "know Office and Word" (yes, I have actually seen that) should be able to figure out the difference between pallets and sliding menus.
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Old 2nd February 2019, 11:48 AM   #559
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Vaguely recall there's basic fax software as standard in Windows. Although the last I saw of that was back in Win2K IIRC...

[looks]

Yep, Windows Fax and Scan in Win7 and Win10. But it's an optional feature you need to enable.
More than that, you need a way to connect the computer to the "voice" side of the phone network. Not many computers have modems these days!
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Old 2nd February 2019, 02:38 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
More than that, you need a way to connect the computer to the "voice" side of the phone network. Not many computers have modems these days!
Yes, you either use an MFP (multi-function printer) with a phone line, or a fax gateway on your email server.
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