Vermont Cell Phone Ban

Ranb · 12th January 2020, 11:17 AM

A Vermont senator proposed a ban on cell phones for anyone under 21. He says they're more dangerous than guns
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/10/polit...rnd/index.html

Quote:

Rodgers, who represents the rural Essex-Orleans district, said the bill intentionally parallels the state's gun legislation. In it, he highlights the dangers of texting and driving and the role social media plays in bullying and suicide and suggests "mass shooters of younger ages" have used their phones to research previous shootings.

Restricting access to information is never going to be popular.

Quote:

He knows it won't make it past the judiciary committee.
"I'm not going to push for the bill to pass," he said. "I wouldn't vote for the thing. This is just to make a point."

That point: In Vermont, it's illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a firearm. Rodgers suggested that the same age restrictions should apply to cellphone use.

Posturing is usually a waste of time in my opinion.

The bill text; https://legislature.vermont.gov/Docu...Introduced.pdf

Based on the attitudes of people like this sponsor, it is only a matter of time before the age of majority or the voting age is raised to 21.

Ranb

Mumbles · 12th January 2020, 08:21 PM

One may as well ban driving for people under 21.

My phone automatically refuses all calls and will not alert me to texts when I'm driving. I don't know whether this is due to speed, or to the Bluetooth connection to the car itself, but it seems to me that connecting it to speed would be a reasonable solution. Don't bother me at all by default, if I actually want to talk while driving, it has to be via bluetooth. And this sort of distraction is hardly restricted to teens - I've seen a particularly amazing man eating with one hand, while holding a cell phone to his ear with another, while speeding down the Mass Pike (which, if you've been around Boston...).

But that's just my knee-jerk reaction. banning cell phones for anyone under 21 is a political stunt, meant to draw attention to an issue more than anything else.

Giordano · 12th January 2020, 08:23 PM

Just an attempt at pro-gun sarcasm.

JoeMorgue · 12th January 2020, 08:26 PM

You know politicians I don't think you've achieved the level of easy efficiency necessary to be wasting time passing "metaphor votes I know won't go anywhere."

Jesus Christ if we can keep passive aggressiveness out of anything can it be our legislative processes?

Stacyhs · 12th January 2020, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

One may as well ban driving for people under 21.

My phone automatically refuses all calls and will not alert me to texts when I'm driving. I don't know whether this is due to speed, or to the Bluetooth connection to the car itself, but it seems to me that connecting it to speed would be a reasonable solution. Don't bother me at all by default, if I actually want to talk while driving, it has to be via bluetooth. And this sort of distraction is hardly restricted to teens - I've seen a particularly amazing man eating with one hand, while holding a cell phone to his ear with another, while speeding down the Mass Pike (which, if you've been around Boston...).

But that's just my knee-jerk reaction. banning cell phones for anyone under 21 is a political stunt, meant to draw attention to an issue more than anything else.

I saw an idiot doing a crossword puzzle while driving on a freeway.

Venom · 12th January 2020, 10:01 PM

I'm kind of amused by American standards.

You'd trust a 15 year old with a 2,000 lb heavy machine but get queasy when they buy condoms?
Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas but won't let them drink fermented malt barley.

I think this 21+ cell phone nonsense is out of line.

Stacyhs · 12th January 2020, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

I'm kind of amused by American standards.

You'd trust a 15 year old with a 2,000 lb heavy machine but get queasy when they buy condoms?
Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas but won't let them drink fermented malt barley.

I think this 21+ cell phone nonsense is out of line.

Gotta agree with you there.

Ranb · 13th January 2020, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Venom

Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas....

As far as I know, a person can join the military in the USA while still 17, but can't deploy overseas until they are 18.

TragicMonkey · 13th January 2020, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I saw an idiot doing a crossword puzzle while driving on a freeway.

You can't know if they're an idiot unless you see what clues they missed.

erlando · 13th January 2020, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

My phone automatically refuses all calls and will not alert me to texts when I'm driving. I don't know whether this is due to speed, or to the Bluetooth connection to the car itself, but it seems to me that connecting it to speed would be a reasonable solution. Don't bother me at all by default, if I actually want to talk while driving, it has to be via bluetooth.

How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train?

Loss Leader · 13th January 2020, 06:40 AM

The day a state senator doesn't say something crazy, is the day I eat my computer.

Darat · 13th January 2020, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by erlando

How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train?

It doesn't. It is a "do not disturb" setting that you can either manually switch on and off or have it so the phone attempts to detect when you are driving and it automatically engages the mode.

Loss Leader · 13th January 2020, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

It doesn't. It is a "do not disturb" setting that you can either manually switch on and off or have it so the phone attempts to detect when you are driving and it automatically engages the mode.

Meanwhile, I spent half an hour yesterday trying to figure out why my phone was sending my calls directly to voicemail. Worse, there was no record of missed calls or voicemails for the calls I made to my own phone. Googled it and found discussion groups that said to toggle the "do not disturb" setting on and off. I didn't have a setting like that, but I had an airplane mode. I turned it on and then off - and my calls now actually ring.

No idea where my phone got the notion to just not alert me to calls.

JoeMorgue · 13th January 2020, 07:13 AM

Coming at this from another angle I do think, sooner or later, we'll see a Constitutional (or at the very least some sort of broad legal) challenge on any and all age restrictions that will attempt (to what degree it will be successful is of course largely the point) to define a definitive "You are an adult at this point" age and null/void all the others.

Yes the fact that 17/18 year old can join the military but not buy a beer or a cigar is a goddamn disgrace.

Minoosh · 13th January 2020, 07:18 AM

The one time I've really wanted to ban cell phones has been while working in high schools. Just as with adults they're an addiction. Maybe the solution is to use them as a platform for lessons. But in the meantime they're a distraction. You can have strict policies but the temptation is always there.

A teacher got in trouble for jamming signals - it turned out to be illegal -but I totally got where he was coming from.

ponderingturtle · 13th January 2020, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Meanwhile, I spent half an hour yesterday trying to figure out why my phone was sending my calls directly to voicemail. Worse, there was no record of missed calls or voicemails for the calls I made to my own phone. Googled it and found discussion groups that said to toggle the "do not disturb" setting on and off. I didn't have a setting like that, but I had an airplane mode. I turned it on and then off - and my calls now actually ring.

No idea where my phone got the notion to just not alert me to calls.

Airplane mode turns off all transmissions so it wouldn't receive calls or data while active. How would it know you got a call when it isn't listening to your service?

Squeegee Beckenheim · 13th January 2020, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ranb

Based on the attitudes of people like this sponsor, it is only a matter of time before the age of majority or the voting age is raised to 21.

I think you're reading that completely backwards. He doesn't want to introduce an age limit for phones, he wants to lower (or get rid of) the age limit for guns.

Ranb · 13th January 2020, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

I think you're reading that completely backwards. He doesn't want to introduce an age limit for phones, he wants to lower (or get rid of) the age limit for guns.

Perhaps. But a quick look at the bills he is sponsoring does not indicate anything like that yet. He is pro-gun though.

JoeMorgue · 13th January 2020, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Ranb

Based on the attitudes of people like this sponsor, it is only a matter of time before the age of majority or the voting age is raised to 21.

Ah... no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...s_Constitution

Ranb · 13th January 2020, 08:22 AM

It's an amendment. It can go away like the 18th did when the 21st was passed.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 13th January 2020, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Ranb

Perhaps. But a quick look at the bills he is sponsoring does not indicate anything like that yet. He is pro-gun though.

A quick look at the article you posted in the OP clearly indicates that, though. Including, but not limited to, the fact that the he deliberately modelled it on the existing gun laws.

Loss Leader · 13th January 2020, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Airplane mode turns off all transmissions so it wouldn't receive calls or data while active. How would it know you got a call when it isn't listening to your service?

That's the thing: airplane mode wasn't on. I fixed the problem by turning airplane mode on and then off.

As to how I know I was receiving calls that weren't going through, I was calling my cell from my house phone to find it. Instead of ringing, it went right to voicemail. I found my phone on my own, tried it again with my cell in my lap and it didn't ring or register any activity. And once I did get it to reconnect to the network, it didn't find my calls or register anything about them or the voicemail messages I left for myself.

Stacyhs · 13th January 2020, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

You can't know if they're an idiot unless you see what clues they missed.

Nah...just doing a crossword while driving is all the evidence needed.

abaddon · 13th January 2020, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

That's the thing: airplane mode wasn't on. I fixed the problem by turning airplane mode on and then off.

As to how I know I was receiving calls that weren't going through, I was calling my cell from my house phone to find it. Instead of ringing, it went right to voicemail. I found my phone on my own, tried it again with my cell in my lap and it didn't ring or register any activity. And once I did get it to reconnect to the network, it didn't find my calls or register anything about them or the voicemail messages I left for myself.

OK, then. I am aware, though I have not made use of it, that my provider allows certain actions independent of the handset. For example, I could set my connection to forward to VM and it matters not a whit what the phone says thereafter.

Could it be one of those obscure settings?

rockysmith76 · 13th January 2020, 01:16 PM

stupid premise

Elagabalus · 13th January 2020, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

The one time I've really wanted to ban cell phones has been while working in high schools. Just as with adults they're an addiction. Maybe the solution is to use them as a platform for lessons. But in the meantime they're a distraction. You can have strict policies but the temptation is always there.

A teacher got in trouble for jamming signals - it turned out to be illegal -but I totally got where he was coming from.

I think that they should ban the whole huge center console display thing in most modern cars. Every time I see someone driving erratically they are always looking at the display to see where they are even though they already know(IMO) because it's sooo coool!

Dr. Keith · 13th January 2020, 01:23 PM

Quote:

That point: In Vermont, it's illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a firearm. Rodgers suggested that the same age restrictions should apply to cellphone use.

Does he really not understand the difference between "buy" and "use"?

My kids are out of high school and still haven't bought a single cell phone themselves. But use? Oh, they can use.

Dr. Keith · 13th January 2020, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

That's the thing: airplane mode wasn't on. I fixed the problem by turning airplane mode on and then off.

It likely wasn't finding a signal. Sometimes switching it in and out of airplane mode will initiate the phone actually searching for a signal. Happened to us yesterday when we were out in the country and only had "voice-only" service. Once we got closer to the highway I asked my wife to turn on and off Airplane mode and it switched over to LTE with four bars. The signal was there, the phone just wasn't looking for it.

But be careful, if you leave it in Airplane mode the ensuing "stop calling me Shirley" and "bad day to quit sniffing glue" jokes can lead to marital stress.

Stacyhs · 13th January 2020, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ranb

As far as I know, a person can join the military in the USA while still 17, but can't deploy overseas until they are 18.

In the US, joining the military at 17 requires parental consent.

I don't believe it is true that the minimum age for overseas deployment is 18 in the US. It is included in the description for New Zealand:

Quote:

17 years of age for voluntary military service; soldiers cannot be deployed until the age of 18; no conscription (2019)

US:

Quote:

18 years of age (17 years of age with parental consent) for male and female voluntary service; no conscription; maximum enlistment age 34 (Army), 39 (Air Force), 39 (Navy), 28 (Marines), 31 (Coast Guard); 8-year service obligation, including 2-5 years active duty (Army), 2 years active (Navy), 4 years active (Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard); all military occupations and positions open to women (2019)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ields/333.html

isissxn · 13th January 2020, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

I'm kind of amused by American standards.

You'd trust a 15 year old with a 2,000 lb heavy machine but get queasy when they buy condoms?
Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas but won't let them drink fermented malt barley.

I think this 21+ cell phone nonsense is out of line.

Agree with you about the condoms, but I think the alcohol (and now tobacco) age is fine where it is. Some days, I think it should be 40. I wouldn't mind them bumping up the age for military enlistment to 21, either. (Which will never happen, of course, I'm just giving my unpopular view.)

The cell phone thing is obviously silly. I'd never support that, even if the idiot proposing it were serious. Cell phones are not directly deadly in the way that war, tobacco, and alcohol are. You have to draw a few connections to make them deadly. They're deadly to people's attention spans, I suppose.

Loss Leader · 13th January 2020, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

OK, then. I am aware, though I have not made use of it, that my provider allows certain actions independent of the handset. For example, I could set my connection to forward to VM and it matters not a whit what the phone says thereafter.

Could it be one of those obscure settings?

Who knows? Fixing it by turning airplane mode on and off leads me to believe it was a glitch.

Mumbles · 13th January 2020, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by erlando

How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train?

As far as I know, my phone has no clue whether I'm I'm driving or just a passenger, until I tell it that I'm a passenger.

That's fine. It's annoying, potentially, for people on public transit, but it's far better than people chatting and then crashing their cars. And I say that as a guy that used the subway starting when I was 9.

Giordano · 13th January 2020, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by erlando

How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train?

The train vs car/bus is easy - if the GPS puts you on train tracks you have more serious problems than driver distraction.

Car or bus driver vs passenger: harder. Not sure how current tech can distinguish.

Giordano · 13th January 2020, 03:16 PM

Although this is an interesting discussion I am convinced the Vermont senator was trying to take a swipe at gun-control laws by employing cell phone use as an analogy. Apparently he did it so poorly that people have bought into him truly intending a cell phone control law.

erlando · 13th January 2020, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

As far as I know, my phone has no clue whether I'm I'm driving or just a passenger, until I tell it that I'm a passenger.

That's fine. It's annoying, potentially, for people on public transit, but it's far better than people chatting and then crashing their cars. And I say that as a guy that used the subway starting when I was 9.

You would have to disable the phone almost completely. There are several voip apps out there and countless chat apps. So any kind of signal would have to be disabled. Byebye Google Maps, Uber, Waze etc etc.

It is a pretty draconian measure to take affecting a lot of innocent users so unless people are literally dying left and right due to cell phone usage in cars you might want to dial it down.

This link says 14% of traffic fatalities in 2017 were due to cell phone usage. It also says that double that was due to drunk driving.

ponderingturtle · 14th January 2020, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Giordano

Although this is an interesting discussion I am convinced the Vermont senator was trying to take a swipe at gun-control laws by employing cell phone use as an analogy. Apparently he did it so poorly that people have bought into him truly intending a cell phone control law.

Yes his argument is that guns don't kill people, phones do.

Arcade22 · 14th January 2020, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yes the fact that 17/18 year old can join the military but not buy a beer or a cigar is a goddamn disgrace.

I think it depends heavily on whether or not there's any empirical justification for age limits, although the existence of seemingly contradictory age limits are by themselves a sign that the limits are arbitrary.

Notionally there's no reason for why someone who is deemed mature enough to apply to join the military, by virtue of their age, should be presumed to be mature enough to drink alcoholic beverages. It doesn't negate the (supposed) greater than tolerable harm that alcohol has on the brains of young adults.

A more reasonable example of how arbitrary these kind of age limits are would be something like, how 17/18 year olds are trained to kill people, and advance in trenches filled blood and guts up to their ankles, but are not allowed to see the most "graphic" and explicit movies.

TragicMonkey · 14th January 2020, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Yes his argument is that guns don't kill people, phones do.

Via an app? I've searched the Google Play store but I'm not finding anything I could download to turn my phone into a weapon. Unless it's that Kardashian game?

JoeMorgue · 14th January 2020, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Via an app? I've searched the Google Play store but I'm not finding anything I could download to turn my phone into a weapon. Unless it's that Kardashian game?

There was a news story that hit few years back about a hunting reserve that let you (or planned to don't remember if they actually wound up doing it) do "remote hunts" where you could remotely control a gun and webcam and shoot deer through a phone app.

TragicMonkey · 14th January 2020, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

There was a news story that hit few years back about a hunting reserve that let you (or planned to don't remember if they actually wound up doing it) do "remote hunts" where you could remotely control a gun and webcam and shoot deer through a phone app.

Sounds like such a set up would cost a lot of doe.

12th January 2020, 11:17 AM	#1
Ranb Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 9,971	Vermont Cell Phone Ban A Vermont senator proposed a ban on cell phones for anyone under 21. He says they're more dangerous than guns https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/10/polit...rnd/index.html Quote: Rodgers, who represents the rural Essex-Orleans district, said the bill intentionally parallels the state's gun legislation. In it, he highlights the dangers of texting and driving and the role social media plays in bullying and suicide and suggests "mass shooters of younger ages" have used their phones to research previous shootings. Restricting access to information is never going to be popular. Quote: He knows it won't make it past the judiciary committee. "I'm not going to push for the bill to pass," he said. "I wouldn't vote for the thing. This is just to make a point." That point: In Vermont, it's illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a firearm. Rodgers suggested that the same age restrictions should apply to cellphone use. Posturing is usually a waste of time in my opinion. The bill text; https://legislature.vermont.gov/Docu...Introduced.pdf Based on the attitudes of people like this sponsor, it is only a matter of time before the age of majority or the voting age is raised to 21. Ranb

12th January 2020, 08:21 PM	#2
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,379	One may as well ban driving for people under 21. My phone automatically refuses all calls and will not alert me to texts when I'm driving. I don't know whether this is due to speed, or to the Bluetooth connection to the car itself, but it seems to me that connecting it to speed would be a reasonable solution. Don't bother me at all by default, if I actually want to talk while driving, it has to be via bluetooth. And this sort of distraction is hardly restricted to teens - I've seen a particularly amazing man eating with one hand, while holding a cell phone to his ear with another, while speeding down the Mass Pike (which, if you've been around Boston...). But that's just my knee-jerk reaction. banning cell phones for anyone under 21 is a political stunt, meant to draw attention to an issue more than anything else.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,379

12th January 2020, 08:26 PM	#4
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,979	You know politicians I don't think you've achieved the level of easy efficiency necessary to be wasting time passing "metaphor votes I know won't go anywhere." Jesus Christ if we can keep passive aggressiveness out of anything can it be our legislative processes?
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

13th January 2020, 06:31 AM	#9
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles September TLA & Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 53,068	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I saw an idiot doing a crossword puzzle while driving on a freeway. You can't know if they're an idiot unless you see what clues they missed.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

13th January 2020, 06:36 AM	#10
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,630	Originally Posted by Mumbles My phone automatically refuses all calls and will not alert me to texts when I'm driving. I don't know whether this is due to speed, or to the Bluetooth connection to the car itself, but it seems to me that connecting it to speed would be a reasonable solution. Don't bother me at all by default, if I actually want to talk while driving, it has to be via bluetooth. How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train?
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,630	__________________ "If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved? Evolution IS a blind watchmaker Last edited by erlando; 13th January 2020 at 06:37 AM.

12th January 2020, 08:23 PM	#3
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 16,150	Just an attempt at pro-gun sarcasm.

12th January 2020, 08:31 PM	#5
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 10,250	Originally Posted by Mumbles One may as well ban driving for people under 21. My phone automatically refuses all calls and will not alert me to texts when I'm driving. I don't know whether this is due to speed, or to the Bluetooth connection to the car itself, but it seems to me that connecting it to speed would be a reasonable solution. Don't bother me at all by default, if I actually want to talk while driving, it has to be via bluetooth. And this sort of distraction is hardly restricted to teens - I've seen a particularly amazing man eating with one hand, while holding a cell phone to his ear with another, while speeding down the Mass Pike (which, if you've been around Boston...). But that's just my knee-jerk reaction. banning cell phones for anyone under 21 is a political stunt, meant to draw attention to an issue more than anything else. I saw an idiot doing a crossword puzzle while driving on a freeway.

12th January 2020, 10:01 PM	#6
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 3,575	I'm kind of amused by American standards. You'd trust a 15 year old with a 2,000 lb heavy machine but get queasy when they buy condoms? Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas but won't let them drink fermented malt barley. I think this 21+ cell phone nonsense is out of line.

12th January 2020, 11:31 PM	#7
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 10,250	Originally Posted by Venom I'm kind of amused by American standards. You'd trust a 15 year old with a 2,000 lb heavy machine but get queasy when they buy condoms? Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas but won't let them drink fermented malt barley. I think this 21+ cell phone nonsense is out of line. Gotta agree with you there.

13th January 2020, 12:21 AM	#8
Ranb Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 9,971	Originally Posted by Venom Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas.... As far as I know, a person can join the military in the USA while still 17, but can't deploy overseas until they are 18.

13th January 2020, 06:40 AM	#11
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 27,141	The day a state senator doesn't say something crazy, is the day I eat my computer.
	__________________ I have the honor to be Your Obdt. S^t L. Leader

13th January 2020, 06:59 AM	#12
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 89,210	Originally Posted by erlando How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train? It doesn't. It is a "do not disturb" setting that you can either manually switch on and off or have it so the phone attempts to detect when you are driving and it automatically engages the mode.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

13th January 2020, 07:07 AM	#13
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 27,141	Originally Posted by Darat It doesn't. It is a "do not disturb" setting that you can either manually switch on and off or have it so the phone attempts to detect when you are driving and it automatically engages the mode. Meanwhile, I spent half an hour yesterday trying to figure out why my phone was sending my calls directly to voicemail. Worse, there was no record of missed calls or voicemails for the calls I made to my own phone. Googled it and found discussion groups that said to toggle the "do not disturb" setting on and off. I didn't have a setting like that, but I had an airplane mode. I turned it on and then off - and my calls now actually ring. No idea where my phone got the notion to just not alert me to calls.
	__________________ I have the honor to be Your Obdt. S^t L. Leader

13th January 2020, 07:13 AM	#14
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,979	Coming at this from another angle I do think, sooner or later, we'll see a Constitutional (or at the very least some sort of broad legal) challenge on any and all age restrictions that will attempt (to what degree it will be successful is of course largely the point) to define a definitive "You are an adult at this point" age and null/void all the others. Yes the fact that 17/18 year old can join the military but not buy a beer or a cigar is a goddamn disgrace.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

13th January 2020, 07:18 AM	#15
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 10,427	The one time I've really wanted to ban cell phones has been while working in high schools. Just as with adults they're an addiction. Maybe the solution is to use them as a platform for lessons. But in the meantime they're a distraction. You can have strict policies but the temptation is always there. A teacher got in trouble for jamming signals - it turned out to be illegal -but I totally got where he was coming from.

13th January 2020, 07:54 AM	#16
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 48,438	Originally Posted by Loss Leader Meanwhile, I spent half an hour yesterday trying to figure out why my phone was sending my calls directly to voicemail. Worse, there was no record of missed calls or voicemails for the calls I made to my own phone. Googled it and found discussion groups that said to toggle the "do not disturb" setting on and off. I didn't have a setting like that, but I had an airplane mode. I turned it on and then off - and my calls now actually ring. No idea where my phone got the notion to just not alert me to calls. Airplane mode turns off all transmissions so it wouldn't receive calls or data while active. How would it know you got a call when it isn't listening to your service?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

13th January 2020, 08:07 AM	#17
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 26,512	Originally Posted by Ranb Based on the attitudes of people like this sponsor, it is only a matter of time before the age of majority or the voting age is raised to 21. I think you're reading that completely backwards. He doesn't want to introduce an age limit for phones, he wants to lower (or get rid of) the age limit for guns.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

13th January 2020, 08:09 AM	#18
Ranb Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 9,971	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim I think you're reading that completely backwards. He doesn't want to introduce an age limit for phones, he wants to lower (or get rid of) the age limit for guns. Perhaps. But a quick look at the bills he is sponsoring does not indicate anything like that yet. He is pro-gun though.

13th January 2020, 08:11 AM	#19
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 21,979	Originally Posted by Ranb Based on the attitudes of people like this sponsor, it is only a matter of time before the age of majority or the voting age is raised to 21. Ah... no. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...s_Constitution
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

13th January 2020, 08:22 AM	#20
Ranb Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 9,971	It's an amendment. It can go away like the 18th did when the 21st was passed.

13th January 2020, 11:59 AM	#21
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 26,512	Originally Posted by Ranb Perhaps. But a quick look at the bills he is sponsoring does not indicate anything like that yet. He is pro-gun though. A quick look at the article you posted in the OP clearly indicates that, though. Including, but not limited to, the fact that the he deliberately modelled it on the existing gun laws.
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13th January 2020, 01:05 PM	#22
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 27,141	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Airplane mode turns off all transmissions so it wouldn't receive calls or data while active. How would it know you got a call when it isn't listening to your service? That's the thing: airplane mode wasn't on. I fixed the problem by turning airplane mode on and then off. As to how I know I was receiving calls that weren't going through, I was calling my cell from my house phone to find it. Instead of ringing, it went right to voicemail. I found my phone on my own, tried it again with my cell in my lap and it didn't ring or register any activity. And once I did get it to reconnect to the network, it didn't find my calls or register anything about them or the voicemail messages I left for myself.
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13th January 2020, 01:09 PM	#23
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 10,250	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey You can't know if they're an idiot unless you see what clues they missed. Nah...just doing a crossword while driving is all the evidence needed.

13th January 2020, 01:16 PM	#24
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 19,406	Originally Posted by Loss Leader That's the thing: airplane mode wasn't on. I fixed the problem by turning airplane mode on and then off. As to how I know I was receiving calls that weren't going through, I was calling my cell from my house phone to find it. Instead of ringing, it went right to voicemail. I found my phone on my own, tried it again with my cell in my lap and it didn't ring or register any activity. And once I did get it to reconnect to the network, it didn't find my calls or register anything about them or the voicemail messages I left for myself. OK, then. I am aware, though I have not made use of it, that my provider allows certain actions independent of the handset. For example, I could set my connection to forward to VM and it matters not a whit what the phone says thereafter. Could it be one of those obscure settings?
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13th January 2020, 01:16 PM	#25
rockysmith76 Muse Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 640	stupid premise
rockysmith76 Muse Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 640

13th January 2020, 01:19 PM	#26
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 5,143	Originally Posted by Minoosh The one time I've really wanted to ban cell phones has been while working in high schools. Just as with adults they're an addiction. Maybe the solution is to use them as a platform for lessons. But in the meantime they're a distraction. You can have strict policies but the temptation is always there. A teacher got in trouble for jamming signals - it turned out to be illegal -but I totally got where he was coming from. I think that they should ban the whole huge center console display thing in most modern cars. Every time I see someone driving erratically they are always looking at the display to see where they are even though they already know(IMO) because it's sooo coool!
Elagabalus Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 5,143

13th January 2020, 01:23 PM	#27
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 19,594	Quote: That point: In Vermont, it's illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a firearm. Rodgers suggested that the same age restrictions should apply to cellphone use. Does he really not understand the difference between "buy" and "use"? My kids are out of high school and still haven't bought a single cell phone themselves. But use? Oh, they can use.
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13th January 2020, 01:28 PM	#28
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 19,594	Originally Posted by Loss Leader That's the thing: airplane mode wasn't on. I fixed the problem by turning airplane mode on and then off. It likely wasn't finding a signal. Sometimes switching it in and out of airplane mode will initiate the phone actually searching for a signal. Happened to us yesterday when we were out in the country and only had "voice-only" service. Once we got closer to the highway I asked my wife to turn on and off Airplane mode and it switched over to LTE with four bars. The signal was there, the phone just wasn't looking for it. But be careful, if you leave it in Airplane mode the ensuing "stop calling me Shirley" and "bad day to quit sniffing glue" jokes can lead to marital stress.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

13th January 2020, 01:34 PM	#29
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 10,250	Originally Posted by Ranb As far as I know, a person can join the military in the USA while still 17, but can't deploy overseas until they are 18. In the US, joining the military at 17 requires parental consent. I don't believe it is true that the minimum age for overseas deployment is 18 in the US. It is included in the description for New Zealand: Quote: 17 years of age for voluntary military service; soldiers cannot be deployed until the age of 18; no conscription (2019) US: Quote: 18 years of age (17 years of age with parental consent) for male and female voluntary service; no conscription; maximum enlistment age 34 (Army), 39 (Air Force), 39 (Navy), 28 (Marines), 31 (Coast Guard); 8-year service obligation, including 2-5 years active duty (Army), 2 years active (Navy), 4 years active (Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard); all military occupations and positions open to women (2019) https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ields/333.html

13th January 2020, 01:56 PM	#30
isissxn Rough Around the Edges Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Deep Storage Posts: 6,358	Originally Posted by Venom I'm kind of amused by American standards. You'd trust a 15 year old with a 2,000 lb heavy machine but get queasy when they buy condoms? Trust 17 year olds to serve your country overseas but won't let them drink fermented malt barley. I think this 21+ cell phone nonsense is out of line. Agree with you about the condoms, but I think the alcohol (and now tobacco) age is fine where it is. Some days, I think it should be 40. I wouldn't mind them bumping up the age for military enlistment to 21, either. (Which will never happen, of course, I'm just giving my unpopular view.) The cell phone thing is obviously silly. I'd never support that, even if the idiot proposing it were serious. Cell phones are not directly deadly in the way that war, tobacco, and alcohol are. You have to draw a few connections to make them deadly. They're deadly to people's attention spans, I suppose.

13th January 2020, 02:48 PM	#31
Loss Leader I would save the receptionist. Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 27,141	Originally Posted by abaddon OK, then. I am aware, though I have not made use of it, that my provider allows certain actions independent of the handset. For example, I could set my connection to forward to VM and it matters not a whit what the phone says thereafter. Could it be one of those obscure settings? Who knows? Fixing it by turning airplane mode on and off leads me to believe it was a glitch.
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13th January 2020, 02:54 PM	#32
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,379	Originally Posted by erlando How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train? As far as I know, my phone has no clue whether I'm I'm driving or just a passenger, until I tell it that I'm a passenger. That's fine. It's annoying, potentially, for people on public transit, but it's far better than people chatting and then crashing their cars. And I say that as a guy that used the subway starting when I was 9.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,379

13th January 2020, 03:13 PM	#33
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 16,150	Originally Posted by erlando How would your phone know if you were driving or just a passenger? Or on a bus or train? The train vs car/bus is easy - if the GPS puts you on train tracks you have more serious problems than driver distraction. Car or bus driver vs passenger: harder. Not sure how current tech can distinguish.

13th January 2020, 03:16 PM	#34
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 16,150	Although this is an interesting discussion I am convinced the Vermont senator was trying to take a swipe at gun-control laws by employing cell phone use as an analogy. Apparently he did it so poorly that people have bought into him truly intending a cell phone control law.

13th January 2020, 10:56 PM	#35
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,630	Originally Posted by Mumbles As far as I know, my phone has no clue whether I'm I'm driving or just a passenger, until I tell it that I'm a passenger. That's fine. It's annoying, potentially, for people on public transit, but it's far better than people chatting and then crashing their cars. And I say that as a guy that used the subway starting when I was 9. You would have to disable the phone almost completely. There are several voip apps out there and countless chat apps. So any kind of signal would have to be disabled. Byebye Google Maps, Uber, Waze etc etc. It is a pretty draconian measure to take affecting a lot of innocent users so unless people are literally dying left and right due to cell phone usage in cars you might want to dial it down. This link says 14% of traffic fatalities in 2017 were due to cell phone usage. It also says that double that was due to drunk driving.
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