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View Poll Results: Should Harry and Meghan abdicate?
Yes, stripped of titles including HRH and public funding/protection 9 25.71%
Yes but keeping titles incl HRH, public funding, protection and Frogmore Cottage 2 5.71%
No, Harry cannot give up his British citizenship and Archie belongs to the Queen 3 8.57%
Who? 21 60.00%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13th January 2020, 04:28 PM   #121
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Clearly the satan worshiping prostitute was led astray by her prince.
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Old 13th January 2020, 04:41 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Queen agrees on 'period of transition' for Harry and Meghan



CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/uk/ro...gbr/index.html
CNN hasn't reported this well, as at no point did the Queen use the terms Prince or HRH but referred to them as plain 'Harry and Meghan'. Note, she didn't say they are valued as part of the royal family but 'my family'. To me, all of this is code for 'they are out and now plain Mr & Mrs Mountbatten-Windsor'.

As any business expert knows, reputation damage is one of the biggest risks to your business and - make no mistake - the royal family is run like a business. Queen Victoria was once in danger of being unpopular with the public and we all know what happened to cousin Nicholas, tsar of Russia, when he and his profligate wife rubbed their poverty-sricken subjects noses in their ostentatious show of extravagant wealth. So, all of these so-called 'summit talks' is just a euphemism for good old 'crisis management' and 'damage limitation'.

Reputation damage can ruin a business (cf Gerard Ratner, Philip Green) irretrievably so the common solution is to set up a 'crisis management' board and to formulate a load of PR to mitigate and offset public loss of confidence in your firm. This often includes a press release which contains the words, 'we take all complaints extremely seriously', a phrase which has become as much a platitude as 'road works, sorry for any delay'.

What the firm are doing with their anodyne and chummy statement that they 'understand' 'Harry's and Meghan's' wish to leave and will now work out a transition period, is 'managing the expectations' of the public. The Queen, Prince Charles and Prince William are ******* angry the public perceive them to have been pre-empted as they were going to kick the pair out anyway with the euphemism, 'slimming down the core family'. However, of course, they can't say that so we have been treated to a spectacle of lovey-dovey hugs and kisses style 'statement from the Queen'. But then we knew that is what she would do. Make it look like mutual agreement and amicable.

Happy families.
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Old 13th January 2020, 05:07 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A look at how the major British tabloids have treated Meghan Markle as compared to Kate Middleton.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...tm_source=digg
Oh please. Not that canard. Anybody can cherry pick negative and positive headlines. You omitted to include all of the negative headlines about Kate: about how she waited nine years around Prince William, stalked him to St Andrews Uni and picked the same subjects and made sure he bumped into her often, about how her mother Carole was a lowly ex-air hostess from a council estate and her parents were in 'trade', not forgetting Kate's coalminer ancestors from Northumberland who worked in mines owned, ironically, by the Queen Mother.

Anyone who hasn't followed the progression of the story seems to leap to the conclusion that he was driven out by the horrid press, boo-hoo.

Yes the press has been intensely focused on Meghan and Harry's relationship. Sarah Vine, wife of Tory twit Michael Gove and DAILY HORRORMAIL hack wrote a ridiculous article comparing Prince Harry's distinguished ancestry to Meghan 'outta Compton' lowly beginnings and various ultra-traditionalists frothed at the mouth but in reality the press were kind to Meghan.

Truth is, Meghan as a narcissist tried to isolate Harry from his friends and family (she had a fling with his best friend Tom Inskip before she met Harry). None of his close friends were invited to the wedding, with a bunch of luvvies Meghan barely knew invited instead, such as Oprah and Amal. She is said to have once had a fling with Clooney, which might explain his presence.

Now she appears to be cutting out Prince William and the Queen, possibly over some imagined slight.

The British public never got to see the baby, which is part of the deal of being a royal. Desmond Tutu saw him first.

She seems to be doing the celebrity thing of making pictures of 'Archie' a commercial enterprise.

Then she wonders why the British public hasn't warmed to her.

Having said that, even if she is a narcissistic luvvie/golddigger/chancer, OTOH she is still a person with feelings. Some members of the public have been relentlessly cruel and unkind and it is understandable the pair are upset by this.
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Old 13th January 2020, 05:09 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Clearly the satan worshiping prostitute was led astray by her prince.
More likely, Harry has taken the hit for Andrew.
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Old 13th January 2020, 05:30 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh please. Not that canard. Anybody can cherry pick negative and positive headlines. You omitted to include all of the negative headlines about Kate: about how she waited nine years around Prince William, stalked him to St Andrews Uni and picked the same subjects and made sure he bumped into her often, about how her mother Carole was a lowly ex-air hostess from a council estate and her parents were in 'trade', not forgetting Kate's coalminer ancestors from Northumberland who worked in mines owned, ironically, by the Queen Mother.

Anyone who hasn't followed the progression of the story seems to leap to the conclusion that he was driven out by the horrid press, boo-hoo.

Yes the press has been intensely focused on Meghan and Harry's relationship. Sarah Vine, wife of Tory twit Michael Gove and DAILY HORRORMAIL hack wrote a ridiculous article comparing Prince Harry's distinguished ancestry to Meghan 'outta Compton' lowly beginnings and various ultra-traditionalists frothed at the mouth but in reality the press were kind to Meghan.

Truth is, Meghan as a narcissist tried to isolate Harry from his friends and family (she had a fling with his best friend Tom Inskip before she met Harry). None of his close friends were invited to the wedding, with a bunch of luvvies Meghan barely knew invited instead, such as Oprah and Amal. She is said to have once had a fling with Clooney, which might explain his presence.

Now she appears to be cutting out Prince William and the Queen, possibly over some imagined slight.

The British public never got to see the baby, which is part of the deal of being a royal. Desmond Tutu saw him first.

She seems to be doing the celebrity thing of making pictures of 'Archie' a commercial enterprise.

Then she wonders why the British public hasn't warmed to her.

Having said that, even if she is a narcissistic luvvie/golddigger/chancer, OTOH she is still a person with feelings. Some members of the public have been relentlessly cruel and unkind and it is understandable the pair are upset by this.
Powerful woman, that Meghan. I can see why the Royal family is scared ******** of her. And poor innocent pussy-whipped Harry doesn’t have a thought of his own. Good thing Lizzie has the brains to realize what is really going on and boot them from the “royal” part of the family thereby giving them exactly what they want.

In truth, any married couple, even royals, are entitled to decide how to live their lives and raise their family. If they quit their jobs of being royals and give up the income that goes with it there is no reason for anyone else to interfere.
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Old 13th January 2020, 07:06 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A look at how the major British tabloids have treated Meghan Markle as compared to Kate Middleton.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...tm_source=digg
I was going to post that, if no-one hadn't already.

Quote:
Kate: "Bumping along nicely! The Duchess was seen placing a protective hand on her tummy as she exited the event." Daily Mail: March 22, 2018

Meghan: "Personally, I find the cradling a bit like those signs in the back of cars: Baby on Board. Virtue signaling, as though the rest of us barren harridans deserve to burn alive in our cars." Daily Mail: Jan. 26, 2019
Whaaat? I can't even!!

A pregnant woman touching her own tummy is some kind of attack on "barren harridans"??? But of course it's adorable when Kate does it.

Also, the very fact that this is the sort of thing these tabloids consider worthy of a story in the first place speaks volumes. "Pregnant Woman Holds Her Tummy"

This is just one example of many.

Quote:
Kate and William: "Prince William was given one of the green fruit – wrapped up in a bow – by a little boy who's mother is suffering during her pregnancy too... 'He said he'd take it to [Kate] and see what happens – and said good luck for [the boy's] mummy.'" Express: Sept. 14, 2017

Meghan: "The pregnant Duchess of Sussex and so-called 'avocado on toast whisperer' is wolfing down a fruit linked to water shortages, illegal deforestation and all round general environmental devastation." Express: Jan. 23, 2019
Kate eats avocado, it's a cute little anecdote. Meghan eats avocado, OMG THE MONSTER!!!

Many more examples at the link. Conclusive scientific proof that the British tabloids have been very unfair.
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Old 13th January 2020, 11:11 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Well, he didn't ask to be born into the job. His mother died because of overeager paparazzi, and now his wife is being subjected the same treatment. He may just want to live a peaceful, regular life. Can anyone blame him?
Nonsense! Diana died because the driver of the vehicle she was riding in was drunk and driving at over twice the legal speed limit and crashed their vehicle. There was no compelling reason for him to be driving in his condition, nor was there any compelling reason for him to be driving so fast and erratically.
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Old 14th January 2020, 01:33 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yes the press has been intensely focused on Meghan and Harry's relationship. Sarah Vine, wife of Tory twit Michael Gove and DAILY HORRORMAIL hack wrote a ridiculous article comparing Prince Harry's distinguished ancestry to Meghan 'outta Compton' lowly beginnings and various ultra-traditionalists frothed at the mouth but in reality the press were kind to Meghan.
First you say the press have been focussing on her, including a particularly nasty piece of work, and then say they've been kind.
Do you not see the disconnect?

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Truth is, Meghan as a narcissist tried to isolate Harry from his friends and family (she had a fling with his best friend Tom Inskip before she met Harry). None of his close friends were invited to the wedding, with a bunch of luvvies Meghan barely knew invited instead, such as Oprah and Amal. She is said to have once had a fling with Clooney, which might explain his presence.
What the hell do the highlighted bits have to do with anything?
I assume she isn't allowed a personal life pre-Harry...
It's precisely this sort of bollocks that we're talking about. It's utterly irrelevant, and yet the prurient public (in need of salacious tit bits to grumble at) lap it up. and that includes you.

As for none of his friends being invited, bollocks again.
You can pull the guest list up, which includes plenty of his friends from back to his school days. Are you (once again) believing the nonsense in the red tops?

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The British public never got to see the baby, which is part of the deal of being a royal. Desmond Tutu saw him first.
Bloody hell.
No.
That's nonsense.
The British public needs to grow up, not be pandered to.
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:44 AM   #129
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Heard quite a funny British tabloid one now to match the inevitable megxit

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Old 14th January 2020, 07:07 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Truth is, Meghan as a narcissist tried to isolate Harry from his friends and family (she had a fling with his best friend Tom Inskip before she met Harry). None of his close friends were invited to the wedding, with a bunch of luvvies Meghan barely knew invited instead, such as Oprah and Amal. She is said to have once had a fling with Clooney, which might explain his presence.

Now she appears to be cutting out Prince William and the Queen, possibly over some imagined slight.

The British public never got to see the baby, which is part of the deal of being a royal. Desmond Tutu saw him first.

She seems to be doing the celebrity thing of making pictures of 'Archie' a commercial enterprise.

Then she wonders why the British public hasn't warmed to her.
Jesus Christ what a load of toxic and hateful nonsense.

Again Prince Harry does not owe some continuing state of "Proper Prince" persona to the British public and for a sizable portion of an entire nation to act like the stereotypical overbearing sitcom mother in law, mad that some saucy harlot below her son's station is daring to take her little boy away from her and plotting to destroy the relationship while playing the victim is functionally insane.
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Old 14th January 2020, 07:39 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Jesus Christ what a load of toxic and hateful nonsense.

Again Prince Harry does owe some continuing state of "Proper Prince" persona to the British public and for a sizable portion of an entire nation to act like the stereotypical overbearing sitcom mother in law, mad that some saucy harlot below her son's station is daring to take her little boy away from her and plotting to destroy the relationship while playing the victim is functionally insane.
I find the whole characterization of Meghan as some sort of siren leading Harry to ruin a bit strange.

Is Harry some simpleton that doesn't understand what he is doing? He grew up in this bizarre family arrangement, he knows the social norms as well as anyone.
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:06 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I find the whole characterization of Meghan as some sort of siren leading Harry to ruin a bit strange.



Is Harry some simpleton that doesn't understand what he is doing? He grew up in this bizarre family arrangement, he knows the social norms as well as anyone.
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:09 AM   #133
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I find it astonishing that I find myself on the "side" of defending a royal!

He was only ever the spare, once his brother had reproduced he had no utility at all. Don't blame him for wanting to step away from the toxicity that is the royal family.
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:20 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He was only ever the spare, once his brother had reproduced he had no utility at all. Don't blame him for wanting to step away from the toxicity that is the royal family.
And that's the question that nobody who's all up in arms about this is either willing or able to answer; what exactly is Harry getting out of being a Royal?

He's 6th in line for a meaningless title he'll never hold and he has nothing to look forward to but a lifetime of watching a tabloid Press hound his wife with increasingly classist, racist, xenophobic attacks.

And the thing that, I can already guess, that is going to be thrown back in his face the most; that fact that he's been rich to the point of absurdity his entire life, is the one thing he's trying to get away from.

I get the impression for some meaningful percentage of the British Public the Royal family is less "National Figurehead" and more "National Hatesink" something you don't want to go away so you can keep hating it.
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:23 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I find it astonishing that I find myself on the "side" of defending a royal!

He was only ever the spare, once his brother had reproduced he had no utility at all. Don't blame him for wanting to step away from the toxicity that is the royal family.
Harry has done his turn in the armed forces and served a stint in an active war zone. Between that and his charities he has done much more for his country than almost all of the current critics.

Actually Darat, think of it this way. Harry is really doing you a small favour
in voluntarily stepping down as a royal. So you are actually defending a person who has made one small step toward diminishing the British royal family. If he is successful maybe other minor royals will follow.
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:31 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I do too... I think it adds a certain amount of character to a country's social and political landscape.

Canada sort of has that...

The Queen is still considered the Head of State for Canada, but her representative is the Governor General, who is selected by the Prime Minister at the time and serves 5 year terms. They do the same sort of functions that the Queen does in the U.K. (reading the throne speech, formally 'dissolving' parliament, etc.)

The problem though is that when you have an 'appointed' or 'elected' position (rather than hereditary) you run the risk of the position becoming political.

Indeed.

My interesf in archaic traditions and rituals also extends to sports, which is part of why I like the Olympics. The selection should be based on sporting success. Zara for queen!
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:36 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Harry has done his turn in the armed forces and served a stint in an active war zone. Between that and his charities he has done much more for his country than almost all of the current critics.

Actually Darat, think of it this way. Harry is really doing you a small favour
in voluntarily stepping down as a royal. So you are actually defending a person who has made one small step toward diminishing the British royal family. If he is successful maybe other minor royals will follow.
He hasn't actually "stepped down as a royal," has he?

Heck, their new website is named "sussexroyal.com" which emphasizes that they are "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex" and they are retaining their titles and all that. The main change seems to be that they're moving to Canada and they want more control over their own press coverage (the latter seems like more of a hope on their part than a realistic likelihood).
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:40 AM   #138
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Maybe he should have "done an Edward" and tried to get them all to do another round of It's A Knockout. People would have loved that...
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Old 14th January 2020, 08:56 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
He hasn't actually "stepped down as a royal," has he?

Heck, their new website is named "sussexroyal.com" which emphasizes that they are "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex" and they are retaining their titles and all that. The main change seems to be that they're moving to Canada and they want more control over their own press coverage (the latter seems like more of a hope on their part than a realistic likelihood).
Apparently granny has started using their first names in public instead of their titles. The royal watchers think this means something.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:22 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I find it astonishing that I find myself on the "side" of defending a royal!

He was only ever the spare, once his brother had reproduced he had no utility at all. Don't blame him for wanting to step away from the toxicity that is the royal family.
I think all would have been ok if they hadn't made their stupid announcement to the press.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:28 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Indeed.

My interesf in archaic traditions and rituals also extends to sports, which is part of why I like the Olympics. The selection should be based on sporting success. Zara for queen!
Have you ever looked up some of the traditions surrounding the British (and Canadian) Parliamentary system? Some of it is quite interesting.

For example:

- During the opening of parliament, there is a ceremonial searching of the cellars, in search of explosives (harking back to the "gunpowder plot".)

- During the throne speech (done by the Queen) The monarch also keeps one of the MPs "hostage" (to ensure the monarch will be allowed to leave, The door to the House of Commons is slammed shut on the Monarch (symbolizing the independence from the crown), and the Usher of the Black Rod knocks on the door 3 times to have the monarch admitted

- When a speaker of the house of commons is chosen (via voting by members of the house), they are ceremoniously 'dragged' to the speaker's chair. This stems from the fact that, as a more visible member of the house of commons they could be subject to being abused by the monarch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_..._of_Parliament

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speake...United_Kingdom)

Some of these traditions may seem useless and/or silly, but they are mostly harmless, and I think it helps add some character and distinction to parliament
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:28 AM   #142
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They are and have been for decades nothing but revenue generators for the media.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:31 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think all would have been ok if they hadn't made their stupid announcement to the press.
All will be ok anyway. The influence of the royal family is waning. This is only the beginning of the changes that will occur once Liz dies. She is the only one with the respect and influence to keep their traditional ways going as much as they are.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:36 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They are and have been for decades nothing but revenue generators for the media.
And for the country as a whole. Interest in the royals from tourists around the world should not be discounted as a profit generator for many businesses. Once the spit hits the fan after Brexit this may become an essential contribution to your economy. One of the few marketable things you have left.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:39 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think all would have been ok if they hadn't made their stupid announcement to the press.
Probably find his private secretary had been trying to set up a meeting with his father and grandmother for weeks and they got fed up of waiting.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:50 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Probably find his private secretary had been trying to set up a meeting with his father and grandmother for weeks and they got fed up of waiting.
That is one (of many) very odd thing about the royals. Of course, most people who want to talk to a close relative just pick up the phone.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:54 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Probably find his private secretary had been trying to set up a meeting with his father and grandmother for weeks and they got fed up of waiting.
I too suspect that something like this has happened.

This Buzzfeed link draws interesting comparisons between the press treatment of Kate and Meghan - https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...tandards-royal

I can understand why Harry is right royally pissed off with the UK tabloid press and wants to stick two fingers up to them.
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:07 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
He hasn't actually "stepped down as a royal," has he?

Heck, their new website is named "sussexroyal.com" which emphasizes that they are "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex" and they are retaining their titles and all that. The main change seems to be that they're moving to Canada and they want more control over their own press coverage (the latter seems like more of a hope on their part than a realistic likelihood).

I find their new quasi-Royal status confusing. Do we still have to call her Queen B or not?
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Old 14th January 2020, 12:34 PM   #149
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The Guardian: Martin Rowson on the Queen's royal family summit – cartoon.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...summit-cartoon
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Old 14th January 2020, 02:17 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think all would have been ok if they hadn't made their stupid announcement to the press.
While I haven't followed closely, at the start of the story I was given to understand that they weren't going to say anything when they did. However, they found out the story was going to hit the papers and so they tried to get ahead of it.

The bottom line is this: A royal couple wants to move to Canada. And? Legal marijuana, free medical care, and liberals running the government...who the **** wouldn't want to move to Canada, apart perhaps from those who are scared of snow or moose?
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Old 14th January 2020, 06:39 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Kick them out of the palaces and move them to a trailer park. That's where our inbred people live.
This reminds me of Sue Townsend's novel, The Queen and I. It's been a long time since I read it, but it was funny at the time.
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Old 14th January 2020, 06:45 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
They are and have been for decades nothing but revenue generators for the media.
As I understand it, and I probably don't, the monarch still has some functions in government. Perhaps they're mostly ceremonial, but doesn't she still sign laws into effect? Appoint the Prime Minister? Declare war? Things like that.
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:09 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
A look at how the major British tabloids have treated Meghan Markle as compared to Kate Middleton.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...tm_source=digg
Worms in the tabloid-writers' brains. It's the only explanation.

"How can we turn a floral arrangement into a sick plot to murder children?"

Definitely brain worms.
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:43 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
As I understand it, and I probably don't, the monarch still has some functions in government. Perhaps they're mostly ceremonial, but doesn't she still sign laws into effect? Appoint the Prime Minister? Declare war? Things like that.
I was talking about how the press use them.

To your wider point, hire an actor to wear the fancy gear. Much cheaper.
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Old 14th January 2020, 11:16 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
As I understand it, and I probably don't, the monarch still has some functions in government. Perhaps they're mostly ceremonial, but doesn't she still sign laws into effect? Appoint the Prime Minister? Declare war? Things like that.
Technically the Queen has the power to sack the PM if she wanted to, but it would never happen these days and every one would just laugh and presume she has got altzheimers.
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Old 14th January 2020, 11:20 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I was talking about how the press use them.
Oh, okay then.
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Old 14th January 2020, 11:20 PM   #157
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She does still sign off laws and the PM and new govts though, but pretty much "sign this piece of paper your majesty". So yeah ceremonial.

We have a governor general who represents her and does they same
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Old 14th January 2020, 11:35 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
She does still sign off laws and the PM and new govts though, but pretty much "sign this piece of paper your majesty". So yeah ceremonial.

We have a governor general who represents her and does they same
She actually wields more power than most people know. For example she has direct input into any legislation that effects her. And that can be a very wide net, for example the legislation to legalise same sex marriage, she had input because she is the head of the CofE.
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Old 15th January 2020, 12:08 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
She actually wields more power than most people know. For example she has direct input into any legislation that effects her. And that can be a very wide net, for example the legislation to legalise same sex marriage, she had input because she is the head of the CofE.

So by extension anything that affects the CofE is considered to affect her too?

I don't suppose anyone knows what her actual input was on that issue?

I get the sense that she has theoretical powers that she dare not actually wield or at least not be seen to wield.
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:20 PM   #160
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It has been my impression since the engagement that most of the self-proclaimed outrage at Markle's marriage to Harry was racially-motivated; and I see the outrage over this as no different; mostly angry racists trying to use this recent development as proof that they were "right all along". To them I would simply say they should rejoice at the prospect of Harry being removed from the line of succession since it eliminates the slim chance of ever having a Queen (consort) Meghan.

It my opinion that would be a shame though; because the day Meghan would become queen-consort - or no, actually, I'd have put it down as "the day Harry officially became next-in-line" - would be the day "get rid of the monarchy" would finally become majority-popular in England, and I would have delighted in watching commentators contort themselves to assert that race had nothing to do with it.
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