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#321 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,279
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You don't get it. We were anti-Russia for one reason only - Communism. And not to defend Democracy or Human Rights, but simply because come the revolution we (ie. rich capitalists and wanabes) would be the first against the wall. Once the wall came down and our fortunes were safe, our 'concern' for Human Rights etc. evaporated.
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We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. |
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#322 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 16,504
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I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) ![]() |
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#323 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#324 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#325 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 6,635
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I will be disappointed if the impeachment charges don’t include at least these...
1) Firing Comey. We have all 3 elements of the crime of Obstruction of Justice. The act of firing, of course. It’s intended effect on an ongoing investigation. The corrupt intent shown by his Lester Holt interview, comments to the Russian ambassador, and recent comments about how bad things would have been for him had he NOT fired Comey. 2) Soliciting McGahn to prepare a false statement. Again, I think all 3 elements are established in the Mueller Report. 3) Preparing a false statement on Air Force One to mislead investigators about the Trump Tower meeting. As to that last, intent may be difficult to prove. And there are other cases outlined in Mueller where the first two elements are clear, but proving the intent may be problematic. I’d have to go back and review them all to see if any others might be included in the charges. As has been pointed out, actions don’t have to be illegal to be impeachable. But outlining them all in the Senate trial will at least put Republican Senators on the record as condoning such behavior in a sitting president. I don’t think history will treat them well in this regard. |
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#326 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 939
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The republicans say that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election.
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There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact. |
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#327 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 6,635
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#328 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 16,892
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I figured the GOP version would be this:
"...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!...If Chewbacca lives on Endor then there was no Quid pro Quo and no Collusion. The defense rests." |
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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#329 |
Just the right amount of cowbell
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 6,362
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As I understand the legal system lingo (and I don't claim to understand it well), the "Chewbacca Defense" really is a thing now, and the Republicans are absolutely using the Chewbacca defense.
I think the current GOP position is: "The supposed victim testified that my client pointed a gun at him and demanded money. But notice that my client never used the word 'robbery,' and didn't say 'or I'll shoot you.' There was no threat, there was no robbery. This was just a simple request for money. People ask each other for money all the time. Why are we wasting the court's time with this? |
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"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt |
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#330 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,479
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#331 |
Just the right amount of cowbell
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 6,362
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__________________
"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt |
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#332 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Usk, Wales
Posts: 26,257
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Excellent speech by Schiff just now. Summed it up perfectly.
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"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut |
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#333 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,479
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Agreed. He hit the nail on the head. Sadly, I think the GOP will fail to recognize the truth of what he said and continue to put their own self-interests ahead of those of the country.
Stephanie Grisham's response:
Quote:
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#334 |
Great minds think...
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8,389
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Nunes is one of the sketchiest humans on Earth, but you have to be pretty stupid not to cover up phone calls:
Quote:
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"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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#335 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 24,623
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I'm just waiting for Trump to "quote" Zelensky -- "He said to me he said 'Sir... this isn't a quid pro quo.'"
That should be admissible evidence right there that he's lying about it. |
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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#336 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,671
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#337 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 27,985
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What is Rudy Giuliani doing calling the OMB?
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. . |
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#338 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31,403
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Trump Retweeted
Vice President Mike Pence @VP What’s happening on Capitol Hill is a disgrace and the fact that it’s happening during a @NATO Conference in London is a disservice to the American people and the United States. |
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#339 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31,403
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Trump Retweeted
Dan Scavino Jr. @Scavino45 Watching Schiff hold an embarrassing Impeachment Sham press conference in THE SWAMP from my phone, while President @realDonaldTrump is at #NATO70 in London with other World Leaders (below), representing the United States of America! Schiff is a total JOKE, embarrassing himself!! |
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#340 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 17,479
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If the GOP had been on the Titanic, they'd be shouting that it wasn't sinking and for everyone to just go back to their rooms. Just ignore the rising water; it's just a small leak.
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#341 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 22,358
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#342 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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This sort of rhetoric is what needs to stop. When you convince people that other humans are not really human, then it opens the door for whatever atrocity against them the listeners feel like doing. This is the exact issue that Trump and co are causing when they speak about Liberals and Refugees in these terms, and which we fight against, we don't need it coming from our side as well. We're supposed to hold ourselves to a better standard than they do.
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![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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#343 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 15,372
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__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
My authority is total - Trump |
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#344 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Land of the Frozen Chosen
Posts: 1,000
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Oh, how tasty it would be to see Nunes go down with Trump.
But then again, I don't expect Trump to go down... so I'll happily take Nunes and Guiliani as the consolation prizes. |
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"Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." ~ Emo Phillips |
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#345 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,545
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__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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#346 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,545
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__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
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#347 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 24,623
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__________________
Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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#348 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 30,671
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Seconded. This is what the TrumpTrash are doing. Here, for instance, is devout "Christian" Dave Daubenmire proclaiming that Schiff and Pelosi are either "demon possessed" or "non human".
Don't be like that guy. |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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#349 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,020
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I don't think there is any question whether or not Trump's behavior was wrong, corrupt and criminal. The only question is will the GOP-ruled Senate will be able to disassociate this from 3 years of obsessive Leftist hatred of Trump, and judge the case on its merits alone. I fear they will not. They will see this as just an extension of the Democrats' refusal to accept Trump's 2016 win and therefore unworthy of any consideration.
Sad. Trump will get away with some very bad behavior. Hopefully we will reverse the coming travesty of justice in November 2020. |
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#350 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,059
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I heard an interesting take the other day. The Republicans are going to whine that the impeachment is all political. OK, fine. But then again, their defense is also just political. So let's not let them get away with pretending that they are taking some pure high road or anything.
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"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets |
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#351 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 85,873
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#352 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,116
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These are Trump created figments of his Imagination. Sure people on the left hate what he has been doing, because from the moment he got in his administration has been doing a lot of stuff that is just crazy bad, from rolling back environmental regulations to trying to ban Muslims from entering the country purely because of their religion or place of birth, to separating kids from their families and putting them in overcrowded cages and refusing to let them go to be with US based family, to trying to roll back the healthcare on millions of people, to slashing funding on any program designed to help people, and giving it all to the military. And that doesn't include the massive push back on women's rights that has occurred through his three years lead by others he picked in his Administration, and by GOP lead States who believe that Trump's judge picks will allow them to overturn decades of law around protecting woman's health. So yeah, what hate he gets is purely based on his policy and actions and how those policies and actions are hurting people.
The second part is again total fantasy. Now again, yes there have been those that have called for his impeachment for a while, but again for good cause. He and his campaign dabbled with Russia, to the point of giving them meetings they should never have had, and polling data that helped Russia target their interference in the Election to help the Trump Campaign. There is also evidence to believe that Russia gave the Trump Campaign strategy materials hacked from the DNC. Since getting into power, Trump has continued to deny that Russia interfered in the election, despite even the Republican lead Senate Intelligence Committee saying that they did.On top of that he repeatedly interfered and attempted to interfere into the investigations into that Interference and what, if any, role his campaign played in it. He was "untruthful" to the investigators, and blocked them from having full access while telling the America people that he was being totally open with them about it. And then at the last minute he slipped in a guy to take any shine off the final report by lying about what was in it long enough that the lie could take over before any of the truth came out, effectively burying a report that was already watered down, but still showed numerous clear cased of obstruction of Justice by the President. And yet despite that, the Democrats didn't move on impeachment. Yes they kept on investigation, but that's because Trump is so crooked that every time they turned over a rock, more criminal appearing actions scuttled out of the darkness. And through it all, Trump has blatantly refused to cooperate to the point that even if he's not guilty of things, he still looks guilty because he is hiding the truth of what he was doing. The reality of it is not that the Dems have been out to get him for Three years, it's that Trump keeps on making himself look guilty of criminal actions, and then whines about it when people investigate those actions. He brought all of it on himself by his own actions, including this Impeachment, an Impeachment that according to reports, he was warned would happen is he kept on acting and doing the things he was doing. And the GOP has been fully complicit in it all because they have been able to get the Judges they wanted into place after making sure that Obama couldn't fill the places when he was President. |
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![]() It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) ![]() |
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#353 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,006
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#354 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,006
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I don't trust atoms. They make up everything. |
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#355 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 91,292
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#356 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 6,635
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I think I might qualify as a “Never Trumper”. I found him repulsive since very, very early on in the Republican primary as he mocked and belittled his primary opponents.
Yet when he won, I had mixed feelings. I was energized in the manner of “living in interesting times” - which is itself a Chinese curse. Still, I had no thoughts of getting rid of him through impeachment - the vagaries of the electoral college made him “my” president, for good or ill. I had hopes he would surround himself with good people and listen to their counsel, and, being a fiscal conservative, hoped he could find a way to rein in spending and get a handle on burgeoning deficits and debt. Needless to say, that hopeful phase was not long-lived, so here we are. |
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#357 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Milky Way, Sol, Earth, Northern Hemisphere, USA, AZ, Scottsdale
Posts: 4,299
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- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
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#358 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 24,135
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We learnt pretty early on what a slimy little worm Nunes was but participating in an inquiry into this dirty Trump/Giuliani scheme that he took part in is next level. Hope this ******** ends up in the slammer.
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#359 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 20,166
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#360 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 24,135
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