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#281 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,072
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#282 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 16,847
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" The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. " |
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#283 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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#284 |
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 69,620
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Please scream inside your heart. |
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#285 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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#286 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,082
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I'm not sure it would, ok done overnight it would. We could demand more vacation time, as Americans, so we can travel by rail and ship. Business travel can be replaced via telecommunications. Air travel though only accounts for 2.5% of C02 emissions though.
Livestock: probably a good compromise would be to end artificial feed. Grassland that can support livestock can be used as such, otherwise we're taking net food production down. That would greatly reduced methane emissions. |
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#287 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 8,089
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Interview with Greta Thunberg
– Apparently I am quite bad at giving speeches. Because what people bring up from the speech in New York is me sitting and saying: ”How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood” and that is not what I want to communicate. I want to communicate facts. And if you leave out what the rest of the speech is all about, if you only take out three sentences, then that makes me sound like an idiot. I don’t give speeches so that I in some magical way will talk world leaders into realizing that I am right and they are wrong. My long term goal is that the gap between what science is saying and what is actually being done is made so clear that it can no longer be ignored. |
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#288 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 42,986
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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#289 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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#290 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46,876
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Have you seen the figures for Germany’s coal power generation? It’s plummeting. So quickly and easily in my view, with no major problems as renewables fill the gap.
Australia is heading in the same direction as well as many European countries. How is the US going? And your use of the word “obsession” is hilarious. The exasperation towards Thunberg shown by you and others in this thread and relentless criticism about how she talks, how she looks and how she presents herself is a direct result of obsession. |
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A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#291 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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#292 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46,876
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__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#293 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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#294 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48,023
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Where are you seeing that? The figures I've seen don't show a decrease, but nothing I could categorize as "plummeting". For example:
https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...wer-mix-charts Hard coal useage has dropped a fair amount recently, but lignite (soft coal) has only dropped a little (see 4th graph). And I believe lignite pollutes more than hard coal. They could have been dropping coal usage much faster if they hadn't shut down all those nuclear plants. |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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#295 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,596
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Can you measure how your words change the world?
There are definitely sections of your post that are essential goals soon. I'll post again a little thing. 1986 I heard about climate change. 1988 First able to do my recycling - of newspapers, in cardboard boxes - in Melbourne. 1989 First given kerbside recycling bins. etc. What country do you live in? It sounds very much like the US. I've seen how angry they get being asked to recycle, or angry at not being able to recycle. I'd like to mention the concept of Sustainability Transitions. There are sustainability transition studies. Here's a 2012 review of 540 journal articles. "new conceptual developments and serve as stepping-stones in the maturation of sustainability transition studies, by linking with the scholarly literatures of management studies, sociology, policy studies, economic geography, and modeling." https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...4873331200056X Every journal article is a transition in itself. If Thunberg had released your plan as a speech, let alone a manifesto or 10 Year Plan, can you imagine how you would have ridiculed it? We must still transition along the way. |
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#296 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,596
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__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#297 |
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 38,596
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Let's try and talk with each other.
Instead of talking at each other. In here, we have more time to think about what we say. Out of online, it's so hard to control our reactions. I get how prestige doesn't see the point of conferences. I never made an effort to get to any Amazing Meetings partly because talking to people is pretty scary. But if you don't move out of your comfort zone, you're surrounded by a fear zone. |
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"We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift". |
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#298 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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#299 |
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,688
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mis-read
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#300 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46,876
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__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#301 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 2,298
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I have also wondered why the likes of Stout, cullennz, theprestige, and yourself have been obsessed with her for so long in this thread. I mean I get why some may find her irritating, but to take it this far is way beyond what one would normally would comment on any social media platform about something you might find irritating.
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"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag." |
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#302 |
In the Peanut Gallery
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 46,876
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__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill |
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#303 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,323
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Is there some sort of guideline, a number of posts, a thread length, an amount of time that a thread goes on where an issue crosses over into an "obsession" ? If there is, then we got a hella lot of obsessives on this forum.
I don';t know about anybody else but I pretty much only do one thread at a time and if it goes on and on...then so do I, or at least until it gets boring. This one is a perfect storm of science, partisan politics, religious type thinking and hero worship. Everybody knows that there's no way, no how that governments are going to being emissions down by 7.6%/year over the next 8-11 years. Everybody knows that these reductions have to happen globally ( except India and China, don't mention those because that's right out of the climate change denier's playbook ) and everybody knows these reductions have to start happening today. Yet very people are want to willingly participate in making those reductions happen....strange that. |
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#304 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 590
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FFS - GT parroting the word "science" over and over doesn't mean she has the first effing clue about actual science beyond what's taught to her in her secondary-school classes. The day it's confirmed that she's got an IQ more than 10 or 20 points above the median for Europids, IOW that she's a certified prodigy/genius, I might begin to take her seriously, but I'm pretty sure we'd have been hearing about it non-stop from day-one were it the case. So as far as I'm concerned, she and the dog/pony show surrounding her are exactly what they seem - a fraud
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"There is no sin except stupidity." |
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#305 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,072
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Well, aren't you just the cutest thing, getting your knickers in such a knot over a know-nothing teenager. Is it really worth all this anger? If you are sure that she and her supporters have nothing useful to say why would you keep listening to any of it? If you ignore her you will likely have a more relaxed and happier life. Hope this little bit of advise works.
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#306 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 590
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__________________
"There is no sin except stupidity." |
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#307 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,640
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And I would like to see your answer. What's the actual plan, from the scientists, that meets the hard cap on emissions targets, in the necessary time frame, without destroying the world's economy?
Have you given up on locking in a <1.5 degree increase over the next 100 years? Or is there still something we can do about it? If so, what? |
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#308 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,640
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Every time I try to talk to you, you ignore me and then lie about my position. I've lost track of the number of times I've corrected you about the nature of my objection to Thunberg's activism, but you keep repeating the same lies about it.
Quote:
I have said that I don't see the point of people flying around the world to meet personally with Greta and help her sail to this particular conference. Nor do I see much point to her being at COP25 at all. If you see a point, I wish you would stop misrepresenting my position and explain what point you see. |
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#309 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,072
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OK. You would like me to answer Lionking's question even though it was not directed to me.
Simply, I have no answer. My thoughts will have zero effect on the actions that may be taken. Now, in response to your questions: 1. There is no actual plan that will work in the available time frame. The types of drastic measures you provide will not be implemented in the short term. Either way there will be a lot of misery spread around. 2. Yes, I have given up on locking in the increase. The things required to accomplish this will not be implemented quickly enough. 3. There is nothing significant I can see that will be done in the necessary time frame. All that doom and gloom said, I still think the goals are worth working toward and I will offer no criticism of anybody trying to work toward those goals, even if an individual's actions prove to have little effect. |
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#310 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,072
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__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#311 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,640
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Thank you. This all seems reasonable (though depressing) to me. I think we can probably find a lot to argue about, but broadly speaking we seem to be in agreement on the main points.
So, in the context of this reasonable doom and gloom, do you think it's reasonable to celebrate Thunberg's effect on the problem? |
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#312 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 590
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"The Youth Climate Movement". Yes, really.
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"There is no sin except stupidity." |
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#313 |
Muse
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 590
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Quote:
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"There is no sin except stupidity." |
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#314 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,188
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Set a suitable price on Carbon emissions and let market forces deal with it. Free markets are actually really good at this type of thing. If we wanted to minimize the economic pain we should have started 25 years ago, but what’s done is done. The pain economic pain gets worse the longer we wait so we may as well get started.
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"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen" |
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#315 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 48,640
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#316 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 8,089
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#317 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 309
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#318 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,072
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Celebrate is not the word I would use and I do not think it correctly describes her supporters, either here or in real life.
I do think her efforts, and the efforts of anyone else who gets that involved, should be encouraged. I certainly see nothing to be gained by disparaging her or her supporters. As I said in the post you quoted: |
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Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!" |
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#319 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,405
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I live near the ocean, haven't noticed any difference in sea level since I was a child. When will I start to notice? When will it begin to cause problems? I was told decades ago that I would have already noticed. This is a serious question, by the way. I'm not trying to make a snarky point.
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#320 |
Adrift on an uncharted sea
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,405
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