2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III - Page 2

JoeMorgue · 31st December 2019, 07:52 AM

So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate.

I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later.

JoeMorgue · 31st December 2019, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here.

Best guess? Doing anything to stand out from the pack. She'd rather be seen as looney then to just fade into background.

Aridas · 31st December 2019, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. She isn't going to win the primary and she's burning every bridge with Democrats. She isn't running for re-election in her home state. Not sure what she gets for ingratiating herself to conservatives who don't really want anything to do with her.

Maybe it's a gambit to be a token "liberal" commentator on Fox News?

Keep being a "Democrat" on Fox, you mean? She spent much of Obama's Presidency bashing Democrats on Fox, apparently, after all.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate.

I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later.

Mmm. The question asked to him was a bit dumb to start with. His answer was that he was open to considering it, but that there were no Republicans that he could think of then that would be acceptable. He followed that up with a call for Republicans to actually live up to the responsibility that comes with their positions.

I'm not going to fault him for that, personally. Much like I'm not going to fault him telling the good Republicans to stay Republicans and reform their party from within.

Childlike Empress · 31st December 2019, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. She isn't going to win the primary and she's burning every bridge with Democrats. She isn't running for re-election in her home state. Not sure what she gets for ingratiating herself to conservatives who don't really want anything to do with her.

Maybe it's a gambit to be a token "liberal" commentator on Fox News?

Unlike the geriatric fools the "Democrat" party will funnel into the game (of losing to Trump), she isn't even 40 and will have the integrity credit of resigning over the DNC corruption in 2016 and refusing to take part in the laughable fake "indictment" in 2020. Integrity will be the new value after the big bubble collapses. So maybe she's planning for after the war.

Bernie, the stubborn old fart, could speed it up as I have explained earlier.

Donal · 31st December 2019, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. She isn't going to win the primary and she's burning every bridge with Democrats. She isn't running for re-election in her home state. Not sure what she gets for ingratiating herself to conservatives who don't really want anything to do with her.

Maybe it's a gambit to be a token "liberal" commentator on Fox News?

She wants a show on RT or FOX News? Maybe be Kucinich v2? More nuttiness, fewer good ideas?

Donal · 31st December 2019, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate.

I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later.

As much as I like to bag on Biden for trotting out the "be nice to Republicans" nonsense, that isn't all of what he said. He said he was open to the idea, but that he doesn't know of anyone in the GOP that would be acceptable. Basically, a jab at Republicans.

JoeMorgue · 31st December 2019, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

As much as I like to bag on Biden for trotting out the "be nice to Republicans" nonsense, that isn't all of what he said. He said he was open to the idea, but that he doesn't know of anyone in the GOP that would be acceptable. Basically, a jab at Republicans.

*Confused* That's what I said he said. I never suggested it was a realistic possibility or anything he actually put on the table.

JoeMorgue · 31st December 2019, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

She wants a show on RT or FOX News? Maybe be Kucinich v2? More nuttiness, fewer good ideas?

It does sometimes seem like she's publicly campaigning for the "Token person who's we can technically call a Democrat so we can pretend to be fair and balanced person on Fox News" job. And she's a woman and brown but not too brown so she hits the trifecta.

theprestige · 31st December 2019, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

You must have a low opinion of the intelligence of your readership to foist such abject nonsense. As if posters are unable to distinguish between nomination and general election.

No. I'm sorry. I have a low opinion of some of the rhetoric that gets posted here from time to time.

The non-hyperbolic version of this (and I apologize for exaggerating) would be something like, "many progressives are likely to hold their noses and vote for someone outside their comfort zone, if it means nominating a candidate likely to beat Trump in the general election. So why not Gabbard?"

Quote:

Despite that I have exceedingly negative views on Gabbard, I'd vote for her without hesitation versus Trump... in the alternate universe where this is conceivable.

Which was my basic point. Sorry for implying anything negative about your intelligence.

Donal · 31st December 2019, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

It does sometimes seem like she's publicly campaigning for the "Token person who's we can technically call a Democrat so we can pretend to be fair and balanced person on Fox News" job. And she's a woman and brown but not too brown so she hits the trifecta.

Its working fabulously for Dershowitz.

theprestige · 31st December 2019, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate.

I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later.

I would vote for Biden on a split party ticket.

---

Actually, after typing that out and before posting it, I had an epiphany: I should vote Democrat anyway. The only thing worse than a do-nothing Congress is a Congress that gets stuff done. It's better for me, and for the nation, if the Senate and the White House remain in opposition to each other. McConnell serves me better in opposition to Biden than in support of Trump.

The biggest risk is that McConnell might cave on justices, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, if it will help heal the national divide. So I guess my question is, which Democrat candidate is most likely to do that? Biden? Warren? Buttigieg? I like Gabbard, but it's not likely she get nominated.

theprestige · 31st December 2019, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

She wants a show on RT or FOX News? Maybe be Kucinich v2? More nuttiness, fewer good ideas?

She's spent enough time on the Democrat reservation to know she doesn't like it? She's hewing to her principles and getting out of politics?

theprestige · 31st December 2019, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Donal

As much as I like to bag on Biden for trotting out the "be nice to Republicans" nonsense, that isn't all of what he said. He said he was open to the idea, but that he doesn't know of anyone in the GOP that would be acceptable. Basically, a jab at Republicans.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Confused* That's what I said he said. I never suggested it was a realistic possibility or anything he actually put on the table.

Bummer. Well, I might vote for him anyway.

JoeMorgue · 31st December 2019, 09:17 AM

"We need to help heal the divide in the country" is the Republican version of "I'm sorry I hit you, if you'll forgive me I won't hit you as often for burning dinner."

theprestige · 31st December 2019, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"We need to help heal the divide in the country" is the Republican version of "I'm sorry I hit you, if you'll forgive me I won't hit you as often for burning dinner."

Now you're just being contrarian.

What's your endgame, here? Are you trying to convince me to ignore my feelings on the subject? Talk me out of supporting a Democrat for president? Get me to commit to four more years of mutual hate? If so, you'll have to try harder than that. If not, maybe try the other thing instead?

Delphic Oracle · 31st December 2019, 11:02 AM

"I'm the one trying to hold us together, but you do stuff that makes me so mad sometimes! If you'd stop being so difficult, maybe that wouldn't happen."

Yup, tracking along perfectly.

BrooklynBaby · 31st December 2019, 11:22 AM

No one is going to heal the divide in the country because it is the corrupt mainstream media that is the driving force of hatred toward conservatives/Republicans.

Donal · 31st December 2019, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

She's spent enough time on the Democrat reservation to know she doesn't like it? She's hewing to her principles and getting out of politics?

Her main principle seemingly "getting me on camera is the greatest good". I mean, we can talk about some of the principles she's hewed in the past.

Donal · 31st December 2019, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby

No one is going to heal the divide in the country because it is the corrupt mainstream media that is the driving force of hatred toward conservatives/Republicans.

Yes, that damn mainstream media keeps letting Republicans speak and reports on their actions, which turns people against them.

BrooklynBaby · 31st December 2019, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Yes, that damn mainstream media keeps letting Republicans speak and reports on their actions, which turns people against them.

"...Now comes the Rise of the Commoners. Yes, the Educated Gentry felt so good, fighting for the workers, minorities and women. But there was a cost; there always is. To help those helpless victims, real and fake, the Educated Gentry needed an enemy, because all politics is about Us and Them. As St. Saul wrote: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Initially that target was the rich, the corporations, the banks, the bourgeoisie, but now it is racist-sexist-homophobes, toxic masculinity, white supremacists, deplorables.

So right now the Enemy of the Educated Gentry is Commoners: ordinary people just trying to get on with their lives, to get a job, a wife, a family, a home. Nothing personal, you understand! It’s just the internal logic of any politics. If the Gentry are going to use the force of government to change the world, they are going to need an enemy to fight."

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...it_wokies.html

theprestige · 31st December 2019, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

"I'm the one trying to hold us together, but you do stuff that makes me so mad sometimes! If you'd stop being so difficult, maybe that wouldn't happen."

I'm thinking it doesn't necessarily need to happen. I'm arguing that it doesn't necessarily need to happen.

You're trying to convince me that it does. Why?

I'm trying to figure out if it actually makes sense for me to vote Democrat this year. You're arguing vehemently and offensively that it doesn't. I'm pretty sure I'm not the one on the wrong side of this question.

Ziggurat · 31st December 2019, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Nonsense. Democrats are incapable of happiness.

Many a truth said in jest...

Ziggurat · 31st December 2019, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The biggest risk is that McConnell might cave on justices, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, if it will help heal the national divide.

It will not.

Politics is downstream from culture. There is no political solution to what is ultimately a cultural divide.

Ziggurat · 31st December 2019, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Keep being a "Democrat" on Fox, you mean? She spent much of Obama's Presidency bashing Democrats on Fox, apparently, after all.

So she's the John McCain of the Democratic party.

Brainster · 31st December 2019, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate.

I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later.

I can't see the downside. After all, Biden will only be 78 on inauguration day.

Ziggurat · 31st December 2019, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I get it.

I doubt it.

ArchSas · 31st December 2019, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

So she's the John McCain of the Democratic party.

I think she's more comparable to Ron Paul, honestly. Loony, somewhat incoherent (for example, claiming to be anti-war, but loving drone strikes) policy proposals that aren't really tied to her stated party's goals, cult-like fanbase that only pays attention to what appeals to them and ignores everything else, ties to fringe ideologies, using anti-establishment status to pretend to be somewhat progressive, a history of bigoted statements, etc.

That literally just popped into my head, and I haven't completely thought it out, but it lines up surprisingly well. Better than McCain, at least.

Donal · 31st December 2019, 02:24 PM

I've been calling her a clearance rack Ron Paul for a while. At least Paul's strategy was understandable. Throw meat to his base and keep getting elected in his district. Outside of a primetime show on RT, FOX, or some other right wing propaganda network, I have no idea what Gabbard is looking for. A career like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens would be a step down for her.

tyr_13 · 31st December 2019, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

"We need to help heal the divide in the country" is the Republican version of "I'm sorry I hit you, if you'll forgive me I won't hit you as often for burning dinner."

"Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.
You take one step forward, he takes one step back.
Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man."

Basically I'm saying the demands for compromise or even promises of compromise from the GOP for a long time now have been in such bad faith that it is on them to establish some trust. 'Fool me once can't fool me again' after all.

Although why engage with them here? There is a ton of diversity of opinion with actual independents and withing the Democrats themselves to discuss valid arguments and criticisms. Going through the GOP base is the same as citing an untrustworthy source on any other matter. Sure, they might have a point sometimes, but you'd have to vet it with a valid authority to figure that out. Cut out the middle man.

____________________________________________

As far as split tickets go, Bernie has that covered by himself, right?

Aridas · 31st December 2019, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I'm not calling on anyone to heal the divide. I'm saying I'd like to do something about it. If voting Democrat in 2020 will help, then maybe I should vote Democrat.

The divide will be inevitably be worse in 2021 with pretty much any of the Republican leaders in charge, compared to pretty much any of the Democrat leaders. Regardless of which it might be, though, until steps are taken to deal with the root causes, both directly and indirectly, things will just keep getting worse. Those causes are certainly not only caused by Republicans, of course, but Republicans are overwhelmingly the ones that have weaponized them for political and financial gain, both exacerbating the existing problems and creating a steady stream of new problems - problems that anger Democrats in ways that the Republicans have been using to worsen the divide further.

Edited by Agatha:

Edited reference to material sent to AAH

SezMe · 31st December 2019, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

FTFY

Quote:

What's wrong with illegal wars, stealing oil from other countries, encouraging a mad sultan to invade Rojava, helping dark-age penguins to genocide some brown people and cancelling international agreements?

I want back someone who can give a nice face to that like Obama! And that phone call was wrong!

Interestingly, I looked in the dictionary under non sequitur and the above quote was used as the quintessential example. Well done, CE!

SezMe · 31st December 2019, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The biggest risk is that McConnell might cave on justices, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, if it will help heal the national divide.

He didn't cave on Merrick Garland and the nation was further divided. He announced that he would proceed to approve a nomination in 2020 should that possibility arise, thereby further dividing the nation. Moscow Mitch is a disaster. Getting rid of him is ~~second only to~~ tied with getting rid of Trump.

SezMe · 31st December 2019, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby

No one is going to heal the divide in the country because it is the corrupt mainstream media that is the driving force of hatred toward conservatives/Republicans.

I have heard from others in real-life that liberals hate conservatives. I see it just the opposite. So I have picked a metric to guage the problem: deaths caused by each side because killing someone over politics seems to me to be the ultimate manifestation of hate. So, give me two numbers BrooklynBaby:

Deaths by conservatives motivated at least in part by politics
Deaths by liberals motivated at least in part by politics

I have my answers ready but will wait for your reply so as to avoid contaminating your response.

ETA: To keep it simple, consider the USA only.

RoseMontague · 1st January 2020, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Yeah, haha. Have you read her statement on the decision? That's how an adult acts. Unfortunately she's the only one in the room.

Originally Posted by Venom

I have read her statement, yes.

It's understandable on its face, but Gabbard has shown a pattern of contrarianism that just makes her look like a spoiled brat. The vast majority of the time before that particular impeachment vote, she voted "not present".

And this is the candidate you are saying is the strongest one for 2020, and she doesn't even have 1% support. She's adopted 2014 Obama's failed "bipartisan" philosophy.

She has missed a lot of votes during her presidential campaign so she was actually not present for those (not that she voted not present). As far as her polling, she's at 1.7% as of this morning on the RCP average (9th place). In NH, where she has concentrated her campaigning, she's at 5.7% (5th place).

I support her and Sanders and also like Klobuchar as my third choice.

Gabbard is right about a lot of things. This whole impeachment thing will hurt Democrats in the Presidential election. It did appease (somewhat) the hardline Democratic base, although those were going to vote Dem regardless.

RoseMontague · 1st January 2020, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Unlike the geriatric fools the "Democrat" party will funnel into the game (of losing to Trump), she isn't even 40 and will have the integrity credit of resigning over the DNC corruption in 2016 and refusing to take part in the laughable fake "indictment" in 2020. Integrity will be the new value after the big bubble collapses. So maybe she's planning for after the war.

Bernie, the stubborn old fart, could speed it up as I have explained earlier.

Possible maybe

RoseMontague · 1st January 2020, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

You must have a low opinion of the intelligence of your readership to foist such abject nonsense. As if posters are unable to distinguish between nomination and general election.

Despite that I have exceedingly negative views on Gabbard, I'd vote for her without hesitation versus Trump... in the alternate universe where this is conceivable.

In the state polls where cross voting is allowed in the primaries (some states allow Indies to vote in either primary) or Republicans are polled as well, she seems to have a lot of support across party lines.

tyr_13 · 1st January 2020, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by RoseMontague

In the state polls where cross voting is allowed in the primaries (some states allow Indies to vote in either primary) or Republicans are polled as well, she seems to have a lot of support across party lines.

Among people least likely to know much about her and least likely to vote for any Dem, she does well.

Not exactly the best indicator.

RoseMontague · 1st January 2020, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Among people least likely to know much about her and least likely to vote for any Dem, she does well.

Not exactly the best indicator.

Independents like me pay attention to both parties on a state as well as national basis. In New Hampshire the largest voting block is Indie (unaffiliated).

Skeptic Ginger · 1st January 2020, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

I've been calling her a clearance rack Ron Paul for a while. At least Paul's strategy was understandable. Throw meat to his base and keep getting elected in his district. Outside of a primetime show on RT, FOX, or some other right wing propaganda network, I have no idea what Gabbard is looking for. A career like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens would be a step down for her.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st January 2020, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

"Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man.
You take one step forward, he takes one step back.
Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man."

Basically I'm saying the demands for compromise or even promises of compromise from the GOP for a long time now have been in such bad faith that it is on them to establish some trust. 'Fool me once can't fool me again' after all.

Although why engage with them here? There is a ton of diversity of opinion with actual independents and withing the Democrats themselves to discuss valid arguments and criticisms. Going through the GOP base is the same as citing an untrustworthy source on any other matter. Sure, they might have a point sometimes, but you'd have to vet it with a valid authority to figure that out. Cut out the middle man. ...

Lots of validity in this post.

31st December 2019, 07:52 AM	#41
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,967	So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate. I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

31st December 2019, 07:54 AM	#42
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,967	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. Best guess? Doing anything to stand out from the pack. She'd rather be seen as looney then to just fade into background.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

31st December 2019, 07:55 AM	#43
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,345	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. She isn't going to win the primary and she's burning every bridge with Democrats. She isn't running for re-election in her home state. Not sure what she gets for ingratiating herself to conservatives who don't really want anything to do with her. Maybe it's a gambit to be a token "liberal" commentator on Fox News? Keep being a "Democrat" on Fox, you mean? She spent much of Obama's Presidency bashing Democrats on Fox, apparently, after all. Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate. I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later. Mmm. The question asked to him was a bit dumb to start with. His answer was that he was open to considering it, but that there were no Republicans that he could think of then that would be acceptable. He followed that up with a call for Republicans to actually live up to the responsibility that comes with their positions. I'm not going to fault him for that, personally. Much like I'm not going to fault him telling the good Republicans to stay Republicans and reform their party from within.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 31st December 2019 at 08:02 AM.

31st December 2019, 07:56 AM	#44
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 18,859	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. She isn't going to win the primary and she's burning every bridge with Democrats. She isn't running for re-election in her home state. Not sure what she gets for ingratiating herself to conservatives who don't really want anything to do with her. Maybe it's a gambit to be a token "liberal" commentator on Fox News? Unlike the geriatric fools the "Democrat" party will funnel into the game (of losing to Trump), she isn't even 40 and will have the integrity credit of resigning over the DNC corruption in 2016 and refusing to take part in the laughable fake "indictment" in 2020. Integrity will be the new value after the big bubble collapses. So maybe she's planning for after the war. Bernie, the stubborn old fart, could speed it up as I have explained earlier.
	__________________ I studied matter for all of my life just to find that there is no such thing - Hans-Peter Dürr Last edited by Childlike Empress; 31st December 2019 at 08:03 AM. Reason: +()

31st December 2019, 07:59 AM	#45
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm really curious what the hell it is Gabbard is playing at here. She isn't going to win the primary and she's burning every bridge with Democrats. She isn't running for re-election in her home state. Not sure what she gets for ingratiating herself to conservatives who don't really want anything to do with her. Maybe it's a gambit to be a token "liberal" commentator on Fox News? She wants a show on RT or FOX News? Maybe be Kucinich v2? More nuttiness, fewer good ideas?
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

31st December 2019, 08:01 AM	#46
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate. I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later. As much as I like to bag on Biden for trotting out the "be nice to Republicans" nonsense, that isn't all of what he said. He said he was open to the idea, but that he doesn't know of anyone in the GOP that would be acceptable. Basically, a jab at Republicans.
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

31st December 2019, 08:06 AM	#47
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,967	Originally Posted by Donal As much as I like to bag on Biden for trotting out the "be nice to Republicans" nonsense, that isn't all of what he said. He said he was open to the idea, but that he doesn't know of anyone in the GOP that would be acceptable. Basically, a jab at Republicans. Confused That's what I said he said. I never suggested it was a realistic possibility or anything he actually put on the table.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

31st December 2019, 08:08 AM	#48
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,967	Originally Posted by Donal She wants a show on RT or FOX News? Maybe be Kucinich v2? More nuttiness, fewer good ideas? It does sometimes seem like she's publicly campaigning for the "Token person who's we can technically call a Democrat so we can pretend to be fair and balanced person on Fox News" job. And she's a woman and brown but not too brown so she hits the trifecta.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

31st December 2019, 08:49 AM	#49
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,625	Originally Posted by varwoche You must have a low opinion of the intelligence of your readership to foist such abject nonsense. As if posters are unable to distinguish between nomination and general election. No. I'm sorry. I have a low opinion of some of the rhetoric that gets posted here from time to time. The non-hyperbolic version of this (and I apologize for exaggerating) would be something like, "many progressives are likely to hold their noses and vote for someone outside their comfort zone, if it means nominating a candidate likely to beat Trump in the general election. So why not Gabbard?" Quote: Despite that I have exceedingly negative views on Gabbard, I'd vote for her without hesitation versus Trump... in the alternate universe where this is conceivable. Which was my basic point. Sorry for implying anything negative about your intelligence.

31st December 2019, 08:52 AM	#50
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue It does sometimes seem like she's publicly campaigning for the "Token person who's we can technically call a Democrat so we can pretend to be fair and balanced person on Fox News" job. And she's a woman and brown but not too brown so she hits the trifecta. Its working fabulously for Dershowitz.
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

31st December 2019, 09:11 AM	#51
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,625	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate. I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later. I would vote for Biden on a split party ticket. --- Actually, after typing that out and before posting it, I had an epiphany: I should vote Democrat anyway. The only thing worse than a do-nothing Congress is a Congress that gets stuff done. It's better for me, and for the nation, if the Senate and the White House remain in opposition to each other. McConnell serves me better in opposition to Biden than in support of Trump. The biggest risk is that McConnell might cave on justices, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, if it will help heal the national divide. So I guess my question is, which Democrat candidate is most likely to do that? Biden? Warren? Buttigieg? I like Gabbard, but it's not likely she get nominated.

31st December 2019, 09:13 AM	#52
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,625	Originally Posted by Donal She wants a show on RT or FOX News? Maybe be Kucinich v2? More nuttiness, fewer good ideas? She's spent enough time on the Democrat reservation to know she doesn't like it? She's hewing to her principles and getting out of politics?

31st December 2019, 09:14 AM	#53
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,625	Originally Posted by Donal As much as I like to bag on Biden for trotting out the "be nice to Republicans" nonsense, that isn't all of what he said. He said he was open to the idea, but that he doesn't know of anyone in the GOP that would be acceptable. Basically, a jab at Republicans. Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Confused That's what I said he said. I never suggested it was a realistic possibility or anything he actually put on the table. Bummer. Well, I might vote for him anyway.

31st December 2019, 09:17 AM	#54
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 29,967	"We need to help heal the divide in the country" is the Republican version of "I'm sorry I hit you, if you'll forgive me I won't hit you as often for burning dinner."
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

31st December 2019, 09:30 AM	#55
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,625	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "We need to help heal the divide in the country" is the Republican version of "I'm sorry I hit you, if you'll forgive me I won't hit you as often for burning dinner." Now you're just being contrarian. What's your endgame, here? Are you trying to convince me to ignore my feelings on the subject? Talk me out of supporting a Democrat for president? Get me to commit to four more years of mutual hate? If so, you'll have to try harder than that. If not, maybe try the other thing instead?

31st December 2019, 11:02 AM	#56
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,292	"I'm the one trying to hold us together, but you do stuff that makes me so mad sometimes! If you'd stop being so difficult, maybe that wouldn't happen." Yup, tracking along perfectly.

31st December 2019, 11:22 AM	#57
BrooklynBaby Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 1,106	No one is going to heal the divide in the country because it is the corrupt mainstream media that is the driving force of hatred toward conservatives/Republicans.

31st December 2019, 12:06 PM	#58
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	Originally Posted by theprestige She's spent enough time on the Democrat reservation to know she doesn't like it? She's hewing to her principles and getting out of politics? Her main principle seemingly "getting me on camera is the greatest good". I mean, we can talk about some of the principles she's hewed in the past.
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

31st December 2019, 12:07 PM	#59
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby No one is going to heal the divide in the country because it is the corrupt mainstream media that is the driving force of hatred toward conservatives/Republicans. Yes, that damn mainstream media keeps letting Republicans speak and reports on their actions, which turns people against them.
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

31st December 2019, 12:15 PM	#60
BrooklynBaby Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 1,106	Originally Posted by Donal Yes, that damn mainstream media keeps letting Republicans speak and reports on their actions, which turns people against them. "...Now comes the Rise of the Commoners. Yes, the Educated Gentry felt so good, fighting for the workers, minorities and women. But there was a cost; there always is. To help those helpless victims, real and fake, the Educated Gentry needed an enemy, because all politics is about Us and Them. As St. Saul wrote: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Initially that target was the rich, the corporations, the banks, the bourgeoisie, but now it is racist-sexist-homophobes, toxic masculinity, white supremacists, deplorables. So right now the Enemy of the Educated Gentry is Commoners: ordinary people just trying to get on with their lives, to get a job, a wife, a family, a home. Nothing personal, you understand! It’s just the internal logic of any politics. If the Gentry are going to use the force of government to change the world, they are going to need an enemy to fight." https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...it_wokies.html

31st December 2019, 12:18 PM	#61
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 48,625	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle "I'm the one trying to hold us together, but you do stuff that makes me so mad sometimes! If you'd stop being so difficult, maybe that wouldn't happen." I'm thinking it doesn't necessarily need to happen. I'm arguing that it doesn't necessarily need to happen. You're trying to convince me that it does. Why? I'm trying to figure out if it actually makes sense for me to vote Democrat this year. You're arguing vehemently and offensively that it doesn't. I'm pretty sure I'm not the one on the wrong side of this question.

31st December 2019, 12:36 PM	#62
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,015	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Nonsense. Democrats are incapable of happiness. Many a truth said in jest...
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

31st December 2019, 12:39 PM	#63
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,015	Originally Posted by theprestige The biggest risk is that McConnell might cave on justices, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, if it will help heal the national divide. It will not. Politics is downstream from culture. There is no political solution to what is ultimately a cultural divide.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

31st December 2019, 12:41 PM	#64
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,015	Originally Posted by Aridas Keep being a "Democrat" on Fox, you mean? She spent much of Obama's Presidency bashing Democrats on Fox, apparently, after all. So she's the John McCain of the Democratic party.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

31st December 2019, 12:43 PM	#65
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,164	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue So apparently Biden is open to the idea of a Republican running mate. I do wonder if a split party ticket is something we are going to see sooner or later. I can't see the downside. After all, Biden will only be 78 on inauguration day.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

31st December 2019, 01:18 PM	#66
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,015	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue I get it. I doubt it.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

31st December 2019, 02:12 PM	#67
ArchSas Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 274	Originally Posted by Ziggurat So she's the John McCain of the Democratic party. I think she's more comparable to Ron Paul, honestly. Loony, somewhat incoherent (for example, claiming to be anti-war, but loving drone strikes) policy proposals that aren't really tied to her stated party's goals, cult-like fanbase that only pays attention to what appeals to them and ignores everything else, ties to fringe ideologies, using anti-establishment status to pretend to be somewhat progressive, a history of bigoted statements, etc. That literally just popped into my head, and I haven't completely thought it out, but it lines up surprisingly well. Better than McCain, at least.
ArchSas Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 274	Last edited by ArchSas; 31st December 2019 at 02:15 PM.

31st December 2019, 02:24 PM	#68
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	I've been calling her a clearance rack Ron Paul for a while. At least Paul's strategy was understandable. Throw meat to his base and keep getting elected in his district. Outside of a primetime show on RT, FOX, or some other right wing propaganda network, I have no idea what Gabbard is looking for. A career like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens would be a step down for her.
Donal Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,331	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

31st December 2019, 07:29 PM	#69
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 16,360	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue "We need to help heal the divide in the country" is the Republican version of "I'm sorry I hit you, if you'll forgive me I won't hit you as often for burning dinner." "Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man. You take one step forward, he takes one step back. Meet me in the middle, says the unjust man." Basically I'm saying the demands for compromise or even promises of compromise from the GOP for a long time now have been in such bad faith that it is on them to establish some trust. 'Fool me once can't fool me again' after all. Although why engage with them here? There is a ton of diversity of opinion with actual independents and withing the Democrats themselves to discuss valid arguments and criticisms. Going through the GOP base is the same as citing an untrustworthy source on any other matter. Sure, they might have a point sometimes, but you'd have to vet it with a valid authority to figure that out. Cut out the middle man. ____________________________________________ As far as split tickets go, Bernie has that covered by himself, right?
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

31st December 2019, 07:57 PM	#71
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,839	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress FTFY Quote: What's wrong with illegal wars, stealing oil from other countries, encouraging a mad sultan to invade Rojava, helping dark-age penguins to genocide some brown people and cancelling international agreements? I want back someone who can give a nice face to that like Obama! And that phone call was wrong! Interestingly, I looked in the dictionary under non sequitur and the above quote was used as the quintessential example. Well done, CE!

31st December 2019, 08:07 PM	#72
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,839	Originally Posted by theprestige The biggest risk is that McConnell might cave on justices, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, if it will help heal the national divide. He didn't cave on Merrick Garland and the nation was further divided. He announced that he would proceed to approve a nomination in 2020 should that possibility arise, thereby further dividing the nation. Moscow Mitch is a disaster. Getting rid of him is ~~second only to~~ tied with getting rid of Trump.

31st December 2019, 08:24 PM	#73
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 24,839	Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby No one is going to heal the divide in the country because it is the corrupt mainstream media that is the driving force of hatred toward conservatives/Republicans. I have heard from others in real-life that liberals hate conservatives. I see it just the opposite. So I have picked a metric to guage the problem: deaths caused by each side because killing someone over politics seems to me to be the ultimate manifestation of hate. So, give me two numbers BrooklynBaby: Deaths by conservatives motivated at least in part by politics Deaths by liberals motivated at least in part by politics I have my answers ready but will wait for your reply so as to avoid contaminating your response. ETA: To keep it simple, consider the USA only.
	Last edited by SezMe; 31st December 2019 at 08:27 PM.

1st January 2020, 11:14 AM	#77
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 16,360	Originally Posted by RoseMontague In the state polls where cross voting is allowed in the primaries (some states allow Indies to vote in either primary) or Republicans are polled as well, she seems to have a lot of support across party lines. Among people least likely to know much about her and least likely to vote for any Dem, she does well. Not exactly the best indicator.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

1st January 2020, 11:59 AM	#78
RoseMontague Published Author Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Elon, NC Posts: 7,276	Originally Posted by tyr_13 Among people least likely to know much about her and least likely to vote for any Dem, she does well. Not exactly the best indicator. Independents like me pay attention to both parties on a state as well as national basis. In New Hampshire the largest voting block is Indie (unaffiliated).

1st January 2020, 01:25 PM	#79
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 85,870	Originally Posted by Donal I've been calling her a clearance rack Ron Paul for a while. At least Paul's strategy was understandable. Throw meat to his base and keep getting elected in his district. Outside of a primetime show on RT, FOX, or some other right wing propaganda network, I have no idea what Gabbard is looking for. A career like Ben Shapiro or Candace Owens would be a step down for her.