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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 8th January 2020, 08:29 PM   #201
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I did defend my premise, I cited my years of expertise demonstrated on this forum.



And more importantly, there is no simple answer. Some things are like that.
Citing your credentials is not defending your premise.

I do, however, acknowledge that you have made tremendous efforts to make it clear that explaining what you mean by "effective" in reference to a political ad is just too great a burden to contemplate.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 8th January 2020 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:33 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just to review, you said this:I replied, I don't care if you share my opinion or not.
"It is an effective ad" is not a statement of opinion, it is an assertion.

"I like the ad, it made me feel good/hopeful/inspired."

That's an opinion.

But you are mightily versed in media stuff(tm), so I clearly didn't need to explain that difference. My apologies.
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:42 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Citing your credentials is not defending your premise.

I do, however, acknowledge that you have made tremendous efforts to make it clear that explaining what you mean by "effective" in reference to a political ad is just too great a burden to contemplate.
If by credentials you mean 14 years of posting here about campaign marketing, narratives, framing, persuasion and propaganda, then yep, I was citing that.

I'm not sure why a few people here would rather complain how dissatisfied they were with a particular person's statement about the effectiveness of Bloomberg's ads than they might be interested is simply giving their own opinion/observations of the ads.

Do people want to discuss me, or the ads?
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:44 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
"It is an effective ad" is not a statement of opinion, it is an assertion.
That's debatable.

Meanwhile, did you watch it? Do you disagree?
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:51 PM   #205
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Ok, maybe some visual aids will help so we can all have a common frame of reference.

Here's Judge Judy (yes that one) reading a punchy bullet-list of focus group pablum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bITEVXwHtI

Here's the bootstrapping job creator who will "rebuild America":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_1T_xPpAwo

This one had potential when I saw the exposition style, but they took the powerful devices of that style and the goal given is "defeat Trump":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNiDCSofoc

Not a fan of the "Rebuild America" branding, not even a little bit. It strikes me as "MAGA lite." Enough with the damn boomers telling us we need to go back to their happy time.

Good lord, that took 10 minutes. I'm exhausted!
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:54 PM   #206
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Based on my non-expert assessment of Bloomberg's ads over the past two weeks he's putting out some great looking ads.

It's those good producers paid big money.
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:55 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If by credentials you mean 14 years of posting here about campaign marketing, narratives, framing, persuasion and propaganda, then yep, I was citing that.
Was that discussed in the ad?

Because if not, then you still aren't discussing the ad.

Quote:
I'm not sure why a few people here would rather complain how dissatisfied they were with a particular person's statement about the effectiveness of Bloomberg's ads than they might be interested is simply giving their own opinion/observations of the ads.
I would love for you to give some statements ABOUT the ads.

Quote:
Do people want to discuss me, or the ads?
You're the one who, when questioned about the ads, refuses to discuss them further and instead list your credentials.

Soooo....
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Old 8th January 2020, 08:56 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Based on my non-expert assessment of Bloomberg's ads over the past two weeks he's putting out some great looking ads.

It's those good producers paid big money.
I liked one of them from an artistic perspective, but it felt wasted.

The rest look really thin and indistinguishable from most others, very paint-by-numbers.

YMMV, thanks for sharing your thoughts :9.

(that was easy, wasn't it?)
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Old 8th January 2020, 11:12 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't know if Bloomberg's ads are playing in your area but the ones playing here other Democrats should be paying attention to.

Bloomberg is in the ads with 'the people' saying all the popular things he plans to do because he did them in NY.

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I AGREE



https://www.youtube.com/user/mikebloomberg
I actually don't have a TV (solely because I wouldn't use it), so I can only say that I haven't seen any on the other TVs that are on when I'm near them. Otherwise, I think that the ad that you just poked at was a good ad.

To poke elsewhere...

Biden: McConnell will become "Mildly Cooperative" if I'm elected

If he actually believes that despite the evidence at hand, well... he really, really isn't getting my primary vote. Not that that's changed, of course, but declaring faith in a guy who's shown profusely that he's untrustworthy and hostile sure looks like the epitomy of stupidity, to me. I think that I would take Bloomberg over him in a heartbeat, especially right after that ad.
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Old 8th January 2020, 11:32 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
....You're the one who, when questioned about the ads, refuses to discuss them further and instead list your credentials.....
This is a bunch of crap and here's something in particular: That is a false dichotomy. There are a lot of things to discuss about these ads besides asking me to write a term paper on the subject:
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
May I ask what makes you think the ads are effective? Which ones? Where are they being broadcast? And how you come to the conclusion that he could not lose to Trump? Is there polling on this? Or do you know people who voted Trump who are swayed by Bloomberg?
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Old 8th January 2020, 11:40 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I actually don't have a TV (solely because I wouldn't use it), so I can only say that I haven't seen any on the other TVs that are on when I'm near them. Otherwise, I think that the ad that you just poked at was a good ad.

To poke elsewhere...

Biden: McConnell will become "Mildly Cooperative" if I'm elected

If he actually believes that despite the evidence at hand, well... he really, really isn't getting my primary vote. Not that that's changed, of course, but declaring faith in a guy who's shown profusely that he's untrustworthy and hostile sure looks like the epitomy of stupidity, to me. I think that I would take Bloomberg over him in a heartbeat, especially right after that ad.
Perfect example of Grandpa Biden's failure to grasp the situation we are dealing with.

And he frequently says "I can do it because I've done it before" but what he's talking about is akin to saying vote for me and the good old days will be back.

Compare that to Bloomberg describing his leadership accomplishments when he says he can accomplish a lot of things as POTUS.

Steyer cites being successful but he doesn't have the kind of experience to list like Bloomberg does. Keep in mind, he's probably padding that resumé and leaving out the bad.
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Old 9th January 2020, 12:23 AM   #212
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Also here's a brilliant ad by Bernie Sanders.

Very brief and sharp; 30 seconds to make his point; 20 second to get to the punchline. Minimal stock footage and filler, all stuff from his rallies and "real Americans" shown next to him.

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I AGREE


Very nice production in the footage below. Zooming in to emphasize people's faces and facial expressions. It's contagious and his campaign knows it.

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I AGREE

Last edited by Venom; 9th January 2020 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 9th January 2020, 01:07 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

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I AGREE
My criticism of that ad: The music is so loud it drowns out the voice-over. He needs a new video editor.

ETA: The same criticism applies to the first ad that Venom linked in the previous message.

Last edited by SezMe; 9th January 2020 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 9th January 2020, 02:39 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Also here's a brilliant ad by Bernie Sanders.

Very brief and sharp; 30 seconds to make his point; 20 second to get to the punchline. Minimal stock footage and filler, all stuff from his rallies and "real Americans" shown next to him.

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I AGREE


Very nice production in the footage below. Zooming in to emphasize people's faces and facial expressions. It's contagious and his campaign knows it.

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I AGREE
Those are good. He needs to broaden the issues but I'm sure he will.
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Old 9th January 2020, 02:44 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
My criticism of that ad: The music is so loud it drowns out the voice-over. He needs a new video editor.

ETA: The same criticism applies to the first ad that Venom linked in the previous message.
I don't have a problem hearing the voiceover.

But this is the kind of issue that a focus group can resolve.
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Old 9th January 2020, 07:58 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is a bunch of crap and here's something in particular: That is a false dichotomy. There are a lot of things to discuss about these ads besides asking me to write a term paper on the subject:
Nobody asked you to write a term paper, that was just you flailing about trying to victimize yourself over being asked to back up your statement.
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Old 9th January 2020, 09:57 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't have a problem hearing the voiceover.

But this is the kind of issue that a focus group can resolve.
If an ad is already produced, you wouldn't use a focus group to tweak it. You'd want quantitative not qualitative research. Focus groups might be used at the beginning of the process, or in writing the campaign brief.
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Old 9th January 2020, 12:28 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Nobody asked you to write a term paper, that was just you flailing about trying to victimize yourself over being asked to back up your statement.
You're back to discussing me instead of the campaign ads.
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Old 9th January 2020, 12:30 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If an ad is already produced, you wouldn't use a focus group to tweak it. You'd want quantitative not qualitative research. Focus groups might be used at the beginning of the process, or in writing the campaign brief.
Or you could use the focus group for advice on the subsequent ads.
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Old 9th January 2020, 01:16 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You're back to discussing me instead of the campaign ads.
I made several posts where I gave some thoughts about the ads.

You have responded to none of them.

I conclude you do not want to discuss the ads.
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Old 9th January 2020, 01:25 PM   #221
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Who has come out with a statement regarding Iran? I saw Pete and Biden were fairly lukewarm. Warren did better and Bernie was pretty forceful.
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Old 9th January 2020, 02:50 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I made several posts where I gave some thoughts about the ads.

You have responded to none of them.

I conclude you do not want to discuss the ads.
Not sure how my not responding has such broad implications.


Is this one of them?
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I liked one of them from an artistic perspective, but it felt wasted.

The rest look really thin and indistinguishable from most others, very paint-by-numbers.

YMMV, thanks for sharing your thoughts :9.

(that was easy, wasn't it?)
I don't have any comments on this post. (That was easy.)

I'll keep looking to see if there were more.
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Old 9th January 2020, 02:54 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Ok, maybe some visual aids will help so we can all have a common frame of reference.

Here's Judge Judy (yes that one) reading a punchy bullet-list of focus group pablum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bITEVXwHtI

Here's the bootstrapping job creator who will "rebuild America":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_1T_xPpAwo

This one had potential when I saw the exposition style, but they took the powerful devices of that style and the goal given is "defeat Trump":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNiDCSofoc

Not a fan of the "Rebuild America" branding, not even a little bit. It strikes me as "MAGA lite." Enough with the damn boomers telling us we need to go back to their happy time.

Good lord, that took 10 minutes. I'm exhausted!
No comment other than I have mixed feelings about the Judge Judy endorsement: I don't like her but the ad looks effective.


Couldn't find any more that weren't attacks on me because of a reply I posted to TP.
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Old 9th January 2020, 03:17 PM   #224
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So, we're just round and round with this?
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Old 9th January 2020, 03:36 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Or you could use the focus group for advice on the subsequent ads.
I suppose that's true. Political ads do have a relatively short shelf life compared to the products and services that I have experience with. Perhaps it's more of a constant churn and you never need to perfect a flawed ad, as you've already moved on by that time.

I hope that Mayor Bloomberg is going to optimize his Super Bowl ad like a consumer product would; that's a big stage for a :60 ad.

Anecdote alert - mrs. carlito, a Republican / swing voter, wants to learn more about Tom Steyer after seeing his ads in Nevada and Illinois.

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Old 9th January 2020, 03:42 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No comment other than I have mixed feelings about the Judge Judy endorsement: I don't like her but the ad looks effective.


Couldn't find any more that weren't attacks on me because of a reply I posted to TP.
Progress is progress, thanks for making the effort.
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Old 9th January 2020, 04:11 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
So, we're just round and round with this?
Trying not to.
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Old 9th January 2020, 04:12 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I suppose that's true. Political ads do have a relatively short shelf life compared to the products and services that I have experience with. Perhaps it's more of a constant churn and you never need to perfect a flawed ad, as you've already moved on by that time.

I hope that Mayor Bloomberg is going to optimize his Super Bowl ad like a consumer product would; that's a big stage for a :60 ad.

Anecdote alert - mrs. carlito, a Republican / swing voter, wants to learn more about Tom Steyer after seeing his ads in Nevada and Illinois.
I can't wait to see the ad, and now Trump is trying to buy time of his own.
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Old 9th January 2020, 04:47 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Those are good. He needs to broaden the issues but I'm sure he will.
Broaden the issues?

What hasn't he covered publicly that any of the candidates have?

racial equality/equity - check
global warming (which he calls the greatest crisis of this era) - check
income inequality - check
universal healthcare - check
education - check
foreign policy - check
voting rights - check
women's rights - check
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Old 9th January 2020, 08:30 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Broaden the issues?

What hasn't he covered publicly that any of the candidates have?

racial equality/equity - check
global warming (which he calls the greatest crisis of this era) - check
income inequality - check
universal healthcare - check
education - check
foreign policy - check
voting rights - check
women's rights - check
I was talking about the ads, not his positions overall.

Steyer's my top choice but if his campaign is weak so far. It's a risk.
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:27 PM   #231
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Nate Silver is out with his projected chances of who will win the majority of delegates:

Biden: 40%
Sanders: 22%
Nobody: 14%
Warren: 12%
Buttigieg: 10%
Field: 2%

Kind of surprised to see that Nobody in there; we haven't had a contested convention in years.
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Old 9th January 2020, 11:47 PM   #232
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Steyer qualifies for Tuesday's debate in Iowa with a pair of surprising early state polls:

Quote:
In a new Fox News poll in Nevada, former Vice President Joe Biden leads Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), 23 percent to 17 percent. Steyer is tied for third place with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), with both at 12 percent.

Former South Bend (Ind.) Mayor Pete Buttigieg is a distant fifth at 6 percent, followed by Andrew Yang’s 4 percent.

In a second new poll, in South Carolina, Biden is well ahead with 36 percent of the vote. But Steyer is in second place with 15 percent, jockeying with Sanders (14 percent) and Warren (10 percent).
The article notes that Steyer has been advertising heavily in South Carolina, but wow, 15%?
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Old 10th January 2020, 12:36 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Steyer qualifies for Tuesday's debate in Iowa with a pair of surprising early state polls:

The article notes that Steyer has been advertising heavily in South Carolina, but wow, 15%?
This is odd:
Quote:
Biden, Buttigieg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Sanders and Warren.
What's with the "Sen Amy"? Do they think she doesn't have name recognition?

The Fox poll trivia is fun:
Quote:
Support for Steyer is up across the board, with some of his biggest gains among nonwhites, voters with a college degree, and moderates/conservatives.

White caucusgoers prefer Biden (22 percent), over Warren (14 percent), Sanders (13 percent), and Steyer (11 percent).

Among Hispanics, Biden (24 percent) and Sanders (24 percent) outperform Steyer (12 percent) and Warren (11 percent).

Biden’s best group is voters over age 65, while for Sanders it’s those under 30, for Warren it’s liberals, and moderates for Steyer.

By a 51-39 percent margin, caucusgoers prefer a candidate who will fundamentally change how the political system works in Washington over one who will restore the system to how it was pre-Trump administration.

Biden is the clear favorite among voters wanting to restore the system, while those preferring change give Sanders a slight edge, although their support divides between the top four.

“The fact that Nevada Democrats have a clear preference for fundamental change could make it difficult for Biden to grow his support as we get closer to caucus day and decision time approaches,” says Chris Anderson, a Democratic pollster who conducts the Fox News Poll with Republican Daron Shaw.
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Old 10th January 2020, 09:20 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
...Steyer's my top choice but if his campaign is weak so far. It's a risk.
Same here, although I vacillate frequently. I definitely prefer him to the top 4.
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Old 10th January 2020, 02:59 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Same here, although I vacillate frequently. I definitely prefer him to the top 4.
I'm still vacillating. Some of my friends are still guilting tripping me about not supporting the Sanders Warren revolution.

Same friends keep telling me how atrocious Bloomberg is, but he looks like such a good candidate.

Steyer is still my current choice and I was pleased to see him rising in the state polls where the first elections are coming up.
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Old 10th January 2020, 03:48 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This is odd: What's with the "Sen Amy"? Do they think she doesn't have name recognition?
It's standard journalistic practice. The others' full names and occupations had already appeared in the article. That was the first mention of Klobuchar. Later on:

Quote:
A third Fox News poll released Thursday from Wisconsin does not count as a qualifying poll. Biden is at 23 percent to Sanders’ 21 percent. Warren is at 13 percent, Buttigieg is at 9 percent and former New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg is at 7 percent.
Because Bloomie hadn't been mentioned before.
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Old 10th January 2020, 03:52 PM   #237
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Contra John Lennon, love is not all you need. Marianne Williamson drops out.
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Old 10th January 2020, 03:58 PM   #238
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Spoke wit a Yang supporter who says he's talked to local business owners who say $15/hr. will put them out of business or make them cut payroll and that's why UBI is better.

I asked for the funding specifics and at first it was "make *insert evil tech company here* pay their taxes." I managed to get down to basics a bit more and heard VAT tax, carbon tax, and economic boost of UBI itself.

Which ends up with the same result, businesses will have increased expenses and have to cut payroll.
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Old 10th January 2020, 05:18 PM   #239
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Willaimson puts her campaign on hold which is pretty much dropping out in everything but name.
She will not be missed. Dems will be just as well off if not better off without a New Age Wackjob on the ticket.
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Old 10th January 2020, 05:23 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Willaimson puts her campaign on hold which is pretty much dropping out in everything but name.
She will not be missed. Dems will be just as well off if not better off without a New Age Wackjob on the ticket.
Haters gonna hate. I would have voted for Williamson in a heartbeat.
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